Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Aurelius]

What clipping bug did I use to cheese a kill?

 

I linked it in my post, right at the time it happens. A skater zombie just "walks" through the closed door and you shoot him. There are other instances where zombies are peeking their head through the door, but can't get to you - and you are still able to headshot them. I didn't see it happen with bears or dogs, but those two entities are the most egregious for this bug.

 

I'm not being critical of your game play, just commenting on long standing bugs that many of us hoped would have been fixed by now. It's been like this since the changeover to Unity, IIRC.

 

-A

[madmole]

Madmole:

 

Do headshots no longer do additional damage, or do you just not do them?

 

Also, for game play vids, can you lower the game sounds and increase your volume? Thanks!

 

Lastly, can you show a screenshot of your character skill page? You were getting wailed on and hardly taking any damage...

 

Head shots are great, but if you miss, you wasted precious ammo. I use them when clearing POIS if I have time. That mod on my ak is hard to see out of, I need to clean up the alpha channel on it. So my philosophy for horde night is shoot them in the body to get the knock down then another gets the kill on most zeds. That guy isn't pressuring me, he's not dying on a spike, and he's not damaging my fort. A headshot risks missing, the guy is now beating on a wall and buffing his buddy. I had loads of ammo, you'll notice I started going for more headshots when the ammo was getting low. Plus my M60 was loaded with AP rounds which mean they go through multiple targets, so shoot the body and hit the guy behind him for sure.

 

Lower what sound? My mic or the game audio so you can hear my voice? I didn't even use headphones and wasn't planning on talking, I wanted to focus on playing the game, I can't talk and play at the same time very well.

 

Sure I'll post one. He has a very high armor rating at least 70% so I'm only taking 30% damage maybe only 25% I haven't checked my armor rating in a while, oh and I forgot I have pain tolerance, so even further damage reduction. If I were a stealth guy I'd have been disintegrated, you witnessed the tank build with mostly modded steel armor and fort build.

[madmole]

Cool horde night, looking forward to those

 

Your damage resistance just worries me a bit. You're playing a tank build, sure, but the amount of damage you're Not taking while a zombie gnaws on your ankle for 15 hits (well, 13 before you notice him).. that feels a bit too strong, you're just ignoring the poor fella

 

Also the radiated Arlene got a swing in at around 7:50, causing a worrisome 5 HP loss. That's around 30 hits to get you dead, so, it would take being stunned by a group of about 10 rads to actually die to them, playing disciplined.

 

If I'd guess based on A17 balancing, I'd assume it's armor balance that's a bit out of whack. Hope you'd check that. 90% damage reduction feels fantastic until you realise ferals are doing 2 damage (out of 200) while you can still outmaneuver them.

 

Its nearly the best armor in the game and I have some pain tolerance too, so a, armor is blocking 70 some percent, then if I take 10 damage, my pain tolerance is reducing it like 20%.. so it is what it is. Trust me, if you get surrounded by feral+ bikers that hit hard or a cop, you won't last long. You can bang with them for a bit though but when things get nasty I pull out the guns. You can turn up the difficulty, this is good to have armor that works, I can finally be a melee guy with fists. It slows you down a lot, and uses more stamina, but I've collected the best mods to remove as much of that as possible. You cannot wear armor and run anywhere it will be so slow and annoying, so you have to do without armor or take it off until you get to the POI, then put it on. So I paid my dues to get this far IMO. You are seeing late game jacked up fort build, other builds are quite fragile compared, but more mobile, and less stamina use.

[madmole]

A tour of your base would also be sweet if that would be possible at any point in the future. It looks pretty darn good from what we've seen of it. If not, no worries!

 

I'm cooking a build now. After I repair last nights damage I'll make a video showing my character and base.

[madmole]

In this particular video, you could easily argue that the pop in zombies came in through the hole above the door. Not gamebreaking even a little.

 

And, thank you so much for the video. Add damn you at the same time. Dude, I am almost literally dying waiting for A18. (On a $12 k couch, part of which is specifically for 7D2D. You know from my avatar I am not kidding!)

 

Your welcome!

[MechanicalLens]

I'm cooking a build now. After I repair last nights damage I'll make a video showing my character and base.

 

Cannot wait!

[ZombieSurvivor]

I'm cooking a build now. After I repair last nights damage I'll make a video showing my character and base.

 

I jokingly talked trash about your previous video and said how I do not watch videos of people playing games......and now I really want to see this upcoming video. dammit lol

[Quantum Blue]

My my, I thought I was a huge fan. I solute you

 

Thank you. 6500+ hours (only since late A14) and I am working on a new fully liquid cooled high end gaming rig ('cooking a new build'? and I might try to pull off a couple things with that as well...) to specifically drive my 72" 4K tv with all settings maxed, (and enhanced surround sound), and our $12K LoveSac Sactional (modular couch) arranged in various individual configurations so that everyone can comfortably watch me play 7D2D wearing 7D2D shirts and drinking from 7D2D mugs. (The avatar doesn't show all shirts and mugs).

 

50+ years gaming. (Literally) Thousands of games. (Still have a thousand in their original boxes and a couple dozen computers going back to late 1970's).

 

This is the best one ever.

 

And it's not even done.

[madmole]

Madmole:

 

You know Joel, I have been reflecting how certain folks tend to bash on game creators when things aren't progressing to their liking.

Been with you guys from the very early Alphas and sure, 7DTD has gone through its ups and downs, moved in various directions, back and forth. But that's life. You guys are only human, if it was easy to make a great game ALL games would be great.

 

Perhaps it just takes getting a bit older (I'm 55) to take the long view of things, whether that's life in general or 7DTD. Personally, I put the game down for a while, as I have way more games than time. There were times when it seemed like The Pimps were on the treadmill, running in place. But the hiring of additional talented staff have given me a real sense of confidence that you will get where you want to be (within technical constraints of course), but it will take steady development and iteration to get there.

 

I really liked your latest last stand video and it gets me pumped to play when you all release it. If that's 2 weeks from now, great! If it's 2 months, well... that's just how it goes. I have other things to occupy my mind and time.

 

So, I'd like to thank you and the other devs for not losing your focus in the midst of difficult challenges. No game is perfect, there will be things about A18 I probably don't care for that much, but I have received many, many times the initial cost in return, and continue to this day.

 

You and your bro are pretty amazing guys- thanks for staying with it for the long haul. See you on release!

Thanks a lot, yes we've had some growing pains but now have the dream team to go gold like professionals and I feel like A18 is really going to showcase the bigger team's abilities. 17 showed some random bits of the new team's work like some textures were updated, new vehicles and AI, but 18 is built on that, so much more polished and a lot more pieces of the puzzle snapped in correctly and balanced, its really going to feel like a beta game IMO instead of random alpha bits.

[madmole]

Hi MM

just thought on doors

if zds do clip in because the door is not quite closed, I don't see a problem with that. better yet, if a z has an arm or leg in the door when you try close it, it wouldn't close irl, so why not have the door bounce back open if there is an obstruction - even a dead Z. means you would need a bit of a head start on them to close it.

 

Engineering that realistically might be hard. We could do a simple trigger to reopen the door though.

[madmole]

I linked it in my post, right at the time it happens. A skater zombie just "walks" through the closed door and you shoot him. There are other instances where zombies are peeking their head through the door, but can't get to you - and you are still able to headshot them. I didn't see it happen with bears or dogs, but those two entities are the most egregious for this bug.

 

I'm not being critical of your game play, just commenting on long standing bugs that many of us hoped would have been fixed by now. It's been like this since the changeover to Unity, IIRC.

 

-A

 

Yes getting them to not clip will be some work yet. We'll get there in time.

[Laz Man]

We're moving in the right direction but would need land mine xp and scalable deployable traps.

 

Sounds sexy, thanks for the insight!

[Aurelius]

Yes getting them to not clip will be some work yet. We'll get there in time.

 

Awesome to hear - keep up the good work

 

-A

[NukemDed]

Engineering that realistically might be hard. We could do a simple trigger to reopen the door though.

 

maybe make it so you have to keep pressing the action button (E is it - Y for controller) for a second or so to close a door. then if there is an obstruction keep pressing to hold it semi closed. power move to slam door and chop limbs off? uses stamina to hold closed? then a mate can shoot thru the gap?

 

hodor! hodor!

[madmole]

Thank you. 6500+ hours (only since late A14) and I am working on a new fully liquid cooled high end gaming rig ('cooking a new build'? and I might try to pull off a couple things with that as well...) to specifically drive my 72" 4K tv with all settings maxed, (and enhanced surround sound), and our $12K LoveSac Sactional (modular couch) arranged in various individual configurations so that everyone can comfortably watch me play 7D2D wearing 7D2D shirts and drinking from 7D2D mugs. (The avatar doesn't show all shirts and mugs).

 

50+ years gaming. (Literally) Thousands of games. (Still have a thousand in their original boxes and a couple dozen computers going back to late 1970's).

 

This is the best one ever.

 

And it's not even done.

 

Nice. Yeah I always dreamed of a game like 7 days, nobody made a "true zombie apocalypse" just shooters. Hell plants vs zombies was the best zombie game I ever played tbh, I didn't care for left for dead, meh doom 2 in 3d is all that was if you break down the actual game mechanics. So its like "We have to make this game" and the rest is history.

[Laz Man]

I don't see horde night defense as something where you specialise. If you build big (walls, secondary defense points etc.) you get less surprises from behind. If you add more traps you save ammo. If you build adapted to zombie behaviour you save on traps AND ammo.

 

Imo you should be able to do everything you listed without specialization. However, specialization should make you better at some of those things when compared to those who are not specced in them.

[Guppycur]

Imo you should be able to do everything you listed without specialization. However, specialization should make you better at some of those things when compared to those who are not specced in them.

 

Agreed.

[Zaroff]

This Friday is out, so sometime beyond that. Given the long weekend and we want to ship a very high quality build on the first experimental, its probably mid to late September. There are 51 MF's. 2.5 weeks from now feels possible, so I'd GUESS AT THE SOONEST, Friday the 13th it hits streamers. Again, it might not drop until October so don't be saying "madmole promised blah blah blah" when this is just an estimate. Its done when its done.

 

There is a memory leak after about an hour of play and RWG crashing on generating 8k maps for older hardware. 4k maps have some visual fugly like roads hitting a brick wall. So we've got some work to do, but we're getting it there. No point in shipping with known nasties. Just because I had a great test last night doesn't mean there isn't showstoppers to fix.

 

I appreciate the update and I know you have given previous time tables. i know better than to say, "MM said it would be out on X day but X time." I fully understand that they are mere estimates. overall from everything I am seeing A18 will be nutz!!! can't wait!! y'all are driving me crazy!!! i know it will come sooner than later.

 

Thank you!

[theFlu]

Its nearly the best armor in the game and I have some pain tolerance too, so a, armor is blocking 70 some percent, then if I take 10 damage, my pain tolerance is reducing it like 20%.. so it is what it is. Trust me, if you get surrounded by feral+ bikers that hit hard or a cop, you won't last long. You can bang with them for a bit though but when things get nasty I pull out the guns. You can turn up the difficulty, this is good to have armor that works, I can finally be a melee guy with fists. It slows you down a lot, and uses more stamina, but I've collected the best mods to remove as much of that as possible. You cannot wear armor and run anywhere it will be so slow and annoying, so you have to do without armor or take it off until you get to the POI, then put it on. So I paid my dues to get this far IMO. You are seeing late game jacked up fort build, other builds are quite fragile compared, but more mobile, and less stamina use.

 

Thanks for the extended reply

 

Whatever else you end up doing, at least check that the random stats on armor won't eventually allow for a 100% reduction, that would at least break the game

 

The point about effort vs reward taken, but at least in A17 terms those Rad Bikers go from 3-shotting you on day one (40 damage per hit, 100 HP pool), to doing 4 damage (of 200 HP) at 90% armor, taking 50 hits for a kill - before any meds. From 3 to fifty.

 

Adding difficulty, ie adding sufficient damage to threaten at -90%, say "kills with 7 hits"

=> 200 HP / 7 hit = 29 damage per hit

29 is the 10%, so 29/0.1 = 290 base damage.. turns it into a oneshot until about 60% armor.

 

That 90% just isn't counterable.

 

I'd personally aim for about 75% absolute max in reduction, that's still pretty beefy compared to none, but would only quadruple the time-to-live.

[PO_Man_3849]

I jokingly talked trash about your previous video and said how I do not watch videos of people playing games......and now I really want to see this upcoming video. dammit lol

 

Hmm, you have said you don't like watching people play games online because it has no point, but then you call out Capp and make it sound like you're long lost buddies. You say you've never seen people use bars as a walkway, which capp has done forever as have many other streamers.

Then you say you will be making your own 7d2d channel, because others have stolen your ideas?

[Roland]

ZombieSurvivor speaks using free association. Don't look for the logic.

[Roland]

My my, I thought I was a huge fan. I solute you

 

I also dissolve into you Quantum. Together we shall be Green.

[ZombieSurvivor]

Hmm, you have said you don't like watching people play games online because it has no point, but then you call out Capp and make it sound like you're long lost buddies. You say you've never seen people use bars as a walkway, which capp has done forever as have many other streamers.

Then you say you will be making your own 7d2d channel, because others have stolen your ideas?

 

Normally I would not waste time on this type of a convo but, I'll do it this one time.

Sounds like to me you are a very judgemental person and or a jealous type.

 

1. I said I do not watch others play games, besides neebs, because I do not get joy out of it.

FACT its just how i feel so what.

 

2. I never claimed Capp as an old buddy of mine and clearly you do not understand I was joking around with him. Problem with that? to bad I do not care.

 

3. I never claimed to watch his videos, I think I seen one video when he joined our discord channel just to see what his youtube channel is all about. This was like a year or two ago.

 

4. No I have never seen any players in game use bars, I do not watch videos of people playing games. its boring to me, unless I plan on buying the game i might watch a little to help me decide if its worth my money. So yeah I never seen a player use bars, you have an issue with that statement? To bad I do not care.

 

P.S. take Rolands advice, I cannot be understood with logic..I'm a nut case lol

 

I hope this cleared everything up for you, take care dude

 

 

My apologies The Fun Pimps but I had to address this guy.

 

EDIT: as far as your little claim goes "Then you say you will be making your own 7d2d channel, because others have stolen your ideas?" I never said that, get your facts straight before coming at me like that.

[madmole]

Thanks for the extended reply

 

Whatever else you end up doing, at least check that the random stats on armor won't eventually allow for a 100% reduction, that would at least break the game

 

The point about effort vs reward taken, but at least in A17 terms those Rad Bikers go from 3-shotting you on day one (40 damage per hit, 100 HP pool), to doing 4 damage (of 200 HP) at 90% armor, taking 50 hits for a kill - before any meds. From 3 to fifty.

 

Adding difficulty, ie adding sufficient damage to threaten at -90%, say "kills with 7 hits"

=> 200 HP / 7 hit = 29 damage per hit

29 is the 10%, so 29/0.1 = 290 base damage.. turns it into a oneshot until about 60% armor.

 

That 90% just isn't counterable.

 

I'd personally aim for about 75% absolute max in reduction, that's still pretty beefy compared to none, but would only quadruple the time-to-live.

I think there is an armor cap but also the math works out that the best random stats wouldn't give you 100% protection.

 

I've never used heavy armor in a long time, since we introduced light armor this is my first heavy build but I like it a lot more than I thought I would.

[Slingblade2040]

They kill and break down a stage, they do their job. We'll make steel versions but don't expect spikes to do all the work like old versions.

 

nah I wouldn't want them doing all the work. just to get a bit of a feel for using them to justify the cost for making it. like I think it's 4 forged iron for the metal spikes and yes it's not a lot but when making enough to go around a 7x7 base and watching them break as fast as the wood it almost made them pointless to use. at least from what I remember when using them in alpha 17.