JaxTeller718 Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Random encounters isn't a new thing in RPGs. They also don't sound equivalent to wandering hordes from what I have read. Please, people, stop looking at "random encounters" and seeing "wandering hordes" Please show me what Madmole wrote that sounded anything remotely like that. From what I've read that horde of zombies would've spawned before you got into view of the Super-Market and not magically in front of your eyes. If Madmole literally said that the encounter system would be like you describe in your scenario then I'll join you in your indignation. But I think you are grossly misinterpreting the concept that Madmole gave us. https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?111778-Alpha-18-Dev-Diary!!&p=1015234&viewfull=1#post1015234 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareee Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Can u currently get a concrete mixer schematic from a concrete mixer? Would it be worth adding a crucible schematic to the broken forge loot list? Instead of 20 percent chance for a forge schematic, maybe 10 percent forge schematic and 10 percent crucible?? 10 would be WAY too high...its supposed to harder to get. Maybe 5% or less. That reminds me...I haven't seen any oh the old forge housesv in a18 at all. Is it broken, or gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted November 8, 2019 Author Share Posted November 8, 2019 I didn't mean 'fake' in that way. It's all fake, of course - just like cinema. It's the immersion.You can watch a film and get immersed in it and for awhile you are tricked into being entertained as if it's really happening. Other times, the movie is so predictable, you already know what's about to happen and you're just like 'oh, brother'.. I was talking about how it can be immersion breaking and I tried to explain the difference between how the old spawn system and this new spawn system was different in that regard. The houses with the sleepers in the closets are the same way to me. You know and expect them to be there. It feels 'fake' and forced - and I just think that the encounter system would likely be similar and after a while you can just almost predict that something will happen each time here and there. Where as before in the spawn system that you don't like - they were all around you in the wasteland especially - it was completely unpredictable - you'd get immersed in the tension - anything could happen - could they be behind you? Could there be a bunch of dogs over that hill? Could there be some cops on the other side of that building? It was different and unpredictable and tense - and while you're fighting one zed another could be coming right up from behind you. The spawn system in the POIs especially are more linear...you clear areas at a time and most of the time so long as you know what you're doing - all of the zombies are ahead of you and you've got a pretty good idea of where most of them are going to be in each room. It's like when hollywood overdoes the CGI and you can see threw it and it throws you out of the movie.. I think we can handle it in a way that feels natural, and reproduce what you liked about Alpha 10 without the cpu and lag issues in a more elegant way. There is a huge wasteland, but all we are concerned with is what you see right now. If you are shooting stuff, making noise, and realistically EVEN IF YOU NUKED the entire thing an hour ago, zombies from miles way (off screen) could be attracted and come investigate. That wouldn't be immersion breaking, but not possible with the old setup, but certainly doable with what we're planning. The key is a lot of events, and a wide range of random intervals and criteria we collect. I'm hoping to write 50+ events and have them game staged. We can't have a group of high level bandits in a helicopter spawn in the forest to gun down the roaming day 1 survivor, but we could if a level 100 guy was blowing up a bandit camp... they called in the backup. I can't think of a single negative to it if we do it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted November 8, 2019 Author Share Posted November 8, 2019 What would be cool is giving server admin control over the encounter system so they can act as dungeon masters... You mean twitch viewers. We're doing twitch integration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechanicalLens Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Hey we have an incoming visitor! Zombies, get up, get in position we have visitors.... We can spawn whatever we want whenever we want. Maybe we'll spawn a horde traveling through the town, or a settler will be getting his house broken into. You can help him or not help him. Will we mindlessly fill the town with 5000 zeds? No. But if I see stuff going on around me I'm interested and immersed at that moment. That should be a big improvement over what we have now. Maybe bandits drive by on motorcycles and hear you shooting and decide to see what is going on. I'm surprised you don't see the potential here. I think we could still spawn more guys in towns with this system or make it feel more interesting in more creative ways. But we're not filling the entire world with zombies again like old days unless we can improve the performance some. The wasteland is highly populated at night if you want some nostalgia you can go there. The encounter system you are speaking of is one that brings great interest; in my view, the more dynamic mechanics, the better. Hey, this man needs help defending his home because he cannot afford to abandon his supplies (food, etc.) and asks you for assistance against a group of raiders or a small horde of zombies. Leave him to die or choose to save him, and who knows, he might stab you in the back after in an attempt to strip you of your gear. (What a foolish mistake that might be of his. ) Or that woman who asks you to save her little girl from inside her house, which is infested with shambling undead corpses. Do you abandon them to their fate, or choose to exercise your morals? I am curious though, are you planning for us to bump into these NPC's more than once, or will they be one-off encounters? Will a reputation system be raised if you go down the role of killer or hero? The more people you save, will bandit activity increase in the area? Just pitching questions out of my own hat here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted November 8, 2019 Author Share Posted November 8, 2019 https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?111778-Alpha-18-Dev-Diary!!&p=1015234&viewfull=1#post1015234 Yes some events would be similar to a random horde, but they won't spawn in front of you and they would be customized for your game stage. Might be a group of stag, a pack of wolves, some wandering survivors. How is that to be taken negatively? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted November 8, 2019 Author Share Posted November 8, 2019 The encounter system you are speaking of is one that brings great interest; in my view, the more dynamic mechanics, the better. Hey, this man needs help defending his home because he cannot afford to abandon his supplies (food, etc.) and asks you for assistance against a group of raiders or a small horde of zombies. Leave him to die or choose to save him, and who knows, he might stab you in the back after in an attempt to strip you of your gear. (What a foolish mistake that might be of his. ) Or that woman who asks you to save her little girl from inside her house, which is infested with shambling undead corpses. Do you abandon them to their fate, or choose to exercise your morals? I am curious though, are you planning for us to bump into these NPC's more than once, or will they be one-off encounters? Will a reputation system be raised if you go down the role of killer or hero? The more people you save, will bandit activity increase in the area? Just pitching questions out of my own hat here. God forbid I answer some questions, the creeps will quote me out of context or manipulate my grand vision into a piece of ♥♥♥♥. Time to go dark I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?111778-Alpha-18-Dev-Diary!!&p=1015234&viewfull=1#post1015234 Come on Jax. That was back in September. I’m talking about what Madmole said today. The idea is still conceptual which means it’s evolving and the most recent posts of Madmole have been much more descriptive than that post. I guess if someone only read that one post a couple months back and nothing that he posted today I concede that it sounds like wandering hordes. Here, I’ll also say that crafting in no way shape or form resembles Minecraft and you can do another gotcha on me by finding a post from 2014... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chikorina Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 The new encounter system sounds fun. Can you give hints on what kind of books you have designed already? I remember you mentioning that there were about 4 new series already designed. @madmole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 You mean twitch viewers. We're doing twitch integration. Oh...that’ll be fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetrameth Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 This just means you're technically making players nothing more than just a walking spawner. There is nothing you can do to control the encounters. This is silly to me. You're just walking around and zombies randomly spawn on you without you being able to actually influence the situation at all. Before, (I'm talking A9,10,11) more specifically - you would try to penetrate the wasteland and it was very hard to do on the first few days. There were dogs and cops everywhere - so to successfully get through and loot - you had to be careful, well-prepared, really good at the game or any combination - but you had control and a decision about whether or not to even take on that risk. If you walked into a town - you'd see several dozen zombies all around the town preventing clear access to most of the POIs - so you'd try to clear the town by taking on a few at a time and trying not to alert too many at once. Again, a clear and controlled situation where you are making decisions and things are occuring as a result of how you make that choice (or not). But, with this thing you're proposing? Everything is 'fake' - you're walking around trying to be careful and the game just randomly spawns a group on you without you having any control or not - it wasn't because of the area you were in - it wasn't because of how much noise you were making - it wasn't because you were carrying raw meat on your belt - nope - it's because the game randomly fired a script and started spawning crap in front of you. That's incredibly cheap to me and just makes it all gamey - especially if it does it at really akward times and places like in locations where you literally just removed threats from the area and then you turn around and that script fires and you've got a random horde all over you. One of my favourite early memories of the game was the first time I had a MASSIVE horde that spawned and moved through the forest all around me (cant remember exactly, perhaps somewhere around A9-10 though). I remember the feeling like it was yesterday though. I was cutting wood in the forest when I heard what sounded like hundreds of rotten feet crunching through the undergrowth. Fear crawled up my spine as I turned around to witness countless zeds stumbling through the forest. Quickly crouching behind the nearest tree, I sat there breathless in the still air, for some time. Horrified, but also appreciating with a somewhat sickly fascination, the obscene way in which the dappled sunbeams revealed their decrepit and ghastly features as they shambled past, powered by some unearthly force, towards a mindless destination. That experience left me with a newfound respect for the powerful imagery a game such as this can wield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechanicalLens Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 God forbid I answer some questions, the creeps will quote me out of context or manipulate my grand vision into a piece of ♥♥♥♥. Time to go dark I think. *Nods in understanding* A wise decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareee Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 God forbid I answer some questions, the creeps will quote me out of context or manipulate my grand vision into a piece of ♥♥♥♥. Time to go dark I think. One guy is going off the rails over a new system that hasn't even been written yet. Just ignore him and write vehicle mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxTeller718 Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Yes some events would be similar to a random horde, but they won't spawn in front of you and they would be customized for your game stage. Might be a group of stag, a pack of wolves, some wandering survivors. How is that to be taken negatively? Im all for it, i was just pointing out why some people may be confused at what it is in response to Roland. Cant wait to see what events will be included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor3D Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 God forbid I answer some questions, the creeps will quote me out of context or manipulate my grand vision into a piece of ♥♥♥♥. Time to go dark I think. Oh, come on.... I even said it was my fault... I didn't intentionally manipulate anything. I just made a mistake. Besides, if you got the confidence in your vision then just go for it. I'm just stating my opinion. You're the one with successful game, buddy. I just remember this same thing when you started discussing the sleeper system before it came out..I even remember saying..it'll be cool if it's done right..but not if it's virtually every POI and they are all in predictable spots over and over..and you said..something along the lines of "nah, it's gonna be great it won't be like that at all" - well, to me the sleeper system is exactly like that.. Then when I came back in to offer feedback on it, I remember being told 'it's just the early stages of it, that's not how it's going to be' - yet even more POIs became dungeons after the fact and now they are virtually all that way. Now, I just think the encounter system might be the same way...where it will be awesome at first - but then starts to become a little predictable. I think both things are awesome ideas and like them in the game - I mean when I played A10, I wanted zombies inside of the houses, and would miss them if they were gone, but I just happened to be of an opinion that is concerned that it might be overdone and that it won't have any real effect on the biggest problem in cities which is so few zeds you can virtually loot and demolish everything outside, and so long as you don't get within 6 meters or so of a POI, you'll never even hear a peep. Anyway, I've said enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWORDY Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Id rather see better framerates and less performance drops than complex spawning system etc. that could slow down entire game even further. My framerates dont go below 65 frames per second at 1080p with maxed out settings except for textures set to half and textures refresh rate set to low. Everything runs smooth so far on my rig - 16GB RAM 3200Mhz, R5 3600 4.2Ghz, RX Vega56 8GB, nothing to complain about so far. Its easy to state that the system or part of the gameplay becomes repetitive and predictable. I see no reason for more zeds spawned in the world personally. What players probably need is more content to keep them busy. Im curious about bandid faction(s) and what would it add to the gameplay at the end of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxTeller718 Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Come on Jax. That was back in September. I’m talking about what Madmole said today. The idea is still conceptual which means it’s evolving and the most recent posts of Madmole have been much more descriptive than that post. I guess if someone only read that one post a couple months back and nothing that he posted today I concede that it sounds like wandering hordes. Here, I’ll also say that crafting in no way shape or form resembles Minecraft and you can do another gotcha on me by finding a post from 2014... You asked for a quote and then try to dismiss it. Im not against the event system and Im clear on what it means and what it can bring. But you asked, and that quote is most likely why people are misunderstanding what it is. Sometimes people can take days to catch up on the forum so that quote was the impression people had of it. Yes MM has cleared it up but he also said part of that system was already there as wandering hordes. September was two months ago. Not 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintorez Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 It'd be interesting if certain PoIs had a chance to be nests that spawn a large horde that burst out when you walk near them. Just walking down a town road and an abandoned building nearby suddenly starts pouring out zombies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doombringer101 Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Im all for it, i was just pointing out why some people may be confused at what it is in response to Roland. Cant wait to see what events will be included. Same So long as it is additional to the biome spawn system (or an improved version eg masking etc) then fantastic. I can have plenty of world zombies and events on top of that, sounds perfect to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chikorina Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 God forbid I answer some questions, the creeps will quote me out of context or manipulate my grand vision into a piece of ♥♥♥♥. Time to go dark I think. Oh no, you all drove him to his little hole again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 One of my favourite early memories of the game was the first time I had a MASSIVE horde that spawned and moved through the forest all around me (cant remember exactly, perhaps somewhere around A9-10 though). I remember the feeling like it was yesterday though. I was cutting wood in the forest when I heard what sounded like hundreds of rotten feet crunching through the undergrowth. Fear crawled up my spine as I turned around to witness countless zeds stumbling through the forest. Quickly crouching behind the nearest tree, I sat there breathless in the still air, for some time. Horrified, but also appreciating with a somewhat sickly fascination, the obscene way in which the dappled sunbeams revealed their decrepit and ghastly features as they shambled past, powered by some unearthly force, towards a mindless destination. That experience left me with a newfound respect for the powerful imagery a game such as this can wield. It happened to me once on my very first night in game during Alpha 11. I was far from any POI but there was a bridge (all the biomes were surrounded by rivers). It was close to run time when I heard the feet so I jumped under the bridge and surrounded myself with wood frames. I sat there quietly in awe as tons of zombies and dogs ran by through the river just on the other side of my flimsy frames. If the encounter system can replicate moments like that because there are no useless entities standing around in nearby chunks that I can’t even see then bring it on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugginator Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 I'm done pulling back the curtain because all people do is knee jerk about stuff they don't properly understand. I hope you don't find my hiding spot behind the curtain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star69 Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 What I hope is part of the random encounters is some variation in the same encounter. For instance, the damsel in distress....one time you help her & she gives you a map to a treasure. Another time, same damsel but when go to help you get surprised by some bandits(she was bait). I can think of many variations. If the damsel was only associated with one outcome, players wouldn’t think ‘oh it’s the damsel & I don’t feel like dealing with bandits’. Multiple scenarios for each random encounter would really keep them from being predictable and boring. It’s all about RNG which would be awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKMrTumnus Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Man, I had a super neat/fun POI base happening on an MP server... had to abandoned the server because it had some rly weird terrain glitch that made travelling super weird and difficult. Was like a "fog of mountains" around me all the time, so weird and disorienting. But as you can see I spent most of my time underground anyway. Just put up signs and unlocked all my containers for the other players to scavenge. Was worth the time though, I love adapting POIs. [ATTACH=CONFIG]30439[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]30440[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]30441[/ATTACH] Many of you will know this POI, the wall upstairs helped a ton with mitigating screamer problems. Installed a convenient ladder that made getting up/dwn super fluid. I had high hopes for it, but alas the terrain thing was drivin me nuts, had to go. Never encountered such weirdness and hope I don't again. Also had a nice mine I could access via one of the vaults in the big room, and my plan was to convert the altar looking thing above into my BM tower. Best part was a Trader was right behind me, all I had to do was hop the wall. Now on to find another server... wee... If interested a few freinds and myself recently started a server. DM me if you'd like details on joining us. *thumbs up* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 You asked for a quote and then try to dismiss it. Im not against the event system and Im clear on what it means and what it can bring. But you asked, and that quote is most likely why people are misunderstanding what it is. Sometimes people can take days to catch up on the forum so that quote was the impression people had of it. Yes MM has cleared it up but he also said part of that system was already there as wandering hordes. September was two months ago. Not 2014. He has talked about it in terms of today’s discussion before today. The idea has been evolving. So even if people are a day or two behind, that September quote shouldn’t have been a factor. Two days behind isn’t two months. But sure, you found a quote that could account for some unknown persons being confused if they weren’t caught up by two months. I was talking to Doc who was reacting to the things Madmole was saying today. He was caught up and I knew it and I was referring to the current description of the proposed concept. Just to clarify my original statement then: There is nothing in the current description of the concept or madmole’s most recent posts on the subject to suggest that the new encounter system is going to work just like wandering hordes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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