Need more bones and fat pimps.

[FileMachete]

How come?

Sorry, I don't get it.

 

In previous alphas every zombie kill left a gore pile. There could easily be over a hundred of them after a horde night. I _think_ they would eventually be removed, but most folks cleaned them up (like harvesting an animal) since they'd add to the heat map and had a neg speed effect if you walked over them. Result, besides literally doing that thousands of times per playthrough, was tons of bones. Add in that Traders could have up to 3 full stacks (500) of Duct Tape and each stack would sell for some crazy amount, $16k? So quite quickly it was never, "can I afford it?" but only, "damn, nothing I want".

 

Though after thinking about it, and since I am one who's very short on Glue/Duct Tape atm, I wouldn't be opposed to having the option of harvesting the zombies again. Simple fix for the Trader exploit could be limiting their stack size to 20, or just tag Duct Tape w, "No Sell Price".

[RipClaw]

Add in that Traders could have up to 3 full stacks (500) of Duct Tape and each stack would sell for some crazy amount, $16k? So quite quickly it was never, "can I afford it?" but only, "damn, nothing I want".

 

I never sold ducktape. It was to precious for me to craft exploding crossbow bolts.

The amount of guns, rifles and other stuff from the horde gave me more money than i could spend.

 

Now it is more or less the same with the dungeons. If you sell the most of the loot from there you get more money than you can spend.

[FileMachete]

I never sold ducktape. It was to precious for me to craft exploding crossbow bolts.

The amount of guns, rifles and other stuff from the horde gave me more money than i could spend.

 

Now it is more or less the same with the dungeons. If you sell the most of the loot from there you get more money than you can spend.

 

That's a good point RipClaw. I was in-game earlier and at only day 18 have ~23k Dukes. Which wouldn't be much if there were any need to buy guns since those seem to have gone up a lot. Will be interesting to see how things get balanced.

[PPanda0421]

If you have loot abundance set at 200%, are killing that many animals with max huntsman perk and are constantly going to 3 different traders and are still having issues with duct tape and glue then it's an obvious issue with your playstyle. The resource is abundant enough with the changes they have made. Now is it enough for multiplayer is where the issue might pop up but since you didn't say rather you are on single or multiplayer most will assume your complaints are for single player in which case it's a issue with how you want to play. Oh and if I can't use bullets then I have arrows. I can use other options not just insist on one specific thing.

 

I agree that there should be more bones drops (eg. more bones per pre-spawned carcass) or somehow produce more glue from 1 bone. Perhaps they can add some kind of perk called 'Resourceful' where you get more output than usual just in like the farming perk gives up to 5 more yield. Giving more bones per animal is another option.

 

As for your suggestions, first of all if we set loot abundance to 200% it'll increase other loot as well not just bones/glue/duct tape - we only want an increase in those three, or at least in bones. Second, the traders only reset every 3 days and there is no guarantee they'll sell duct tape/glue. Thirdly the main issue is that there are too many recipes that required glue/duct tape and the main source of getting these (harvesting zombie corpses) was removed. That is not a playstyle issue that is a balance issue. They have to rebalance that somehow especially with all the newly added mods. TFP can reduce/remove the duct tape/glue ingredient in recipes or somehow increase the drops for those items.

 

I'm in SP and even I'm having trouble keeping up with finding/making glue. Imagine what MP is like...

[Ghostlight]

Your feeling on this is going to depend if you are playing in co-op with others and/or sharing a server with other people, non-co-op. Your paper and duct tape needs can vary a lot. I play co-op with 3 so we need a great deal more than a solo player, yet the bone pile count is the same as for a solo player.

[Slingblade2040]

A recipe can be added in the by the pimps so glue could also be made from hide. That would solve the issue since hide is easy to get and much more abundant. A quick Google search explained the fine history of glue and that yes hide can be used for glue.

[Ttocs]

If youre on nave look for the boar farm, i found it early day 3 or something, got loads of boars and corpses in there walked out with over 50 bones. Revisited there a few days later and the boars were back, easy bones ^^

[myrkana]

Your feeling on this is going to depend if you are playing in co-op with others and/or sharing a server with other people, non-co-op. Your paper and duct tape needs can vary a lot. I play co-op with 3 so we need a great deal more than a solo player, yet the bone pile count is the same as for a solo player.

 

I play with 2 other people and we have so much duct tape its ridiculous. Buy it from traders, kill any animals. We have done the one quest that sends you to the Grace house 3 times and are over flowing with bones now The main thing is what weapons you use. We use a lot of guns and melee weapons, not so much the fancy bolts that require duct tape or anything.

[CoolJ]

If you have loot abundance set at 200%, are killing that many animals with max huntsman perk and are constantly going to 3 different traders and are still having issues with duct tape and glue then it's an obvious issue with your playstyle. The resource is abundant enough with the changes they have made. Now is it enough for multiplayer is where the issue might pop up but since you didn't say rather you are on single or multiplayer most will assume your complaints are for single player in which case it's a issue with how you want to play. Oh and if I can't use bullets then I have arrows. I can use other options not just insist on one specific thing.

 

I obviously don't have loot at 200% for the same reason that I don't have any mods. I am playing the game in it's default state. There is no issue with my play style. You don't get to judge people's decisions in a single player RPG. If I want to play a glass cannon, then I should be able to and it should be viable. Nothing should be excluded from possibility just because you don't approve. The answer is not to set loot to 200%. The answer is to fix the bone and fat shortage.

[JCrook1028]

In previous alphas every zombie kill left a gore pile. There could easily be over a hundred of them after a horde night. I _think_ they would eventually be removed, but most folks cleaned them up (like harvesting an animal) since they'd add to the heat map

 

A16 zombie gore blocks did not add to heat map, only animals gore blocks did...

[Slingblade2040]

I obviously don't have loot at 200% for the same reason that I don't have any mods. I am playing the game in it's default state. There is no issue with my play style. You don't get to judge people's decisions in a single player RPG. If I want to play a glass cannon, then I should be able to and it should be viable. Nothing should be excluded from possibility just because you don't approve. The answer is not to set loot to 200%. The answer is to fix the bone and fat shortage.

 

Ok well there you go. You have options and ways already implemented into the game you just refuse to use them. At this point you are coming across as stubborn when people offer you viable options that do not require modding the game through xml files. Obviously their is an issue with your play style because you seem to want insane amount of resources on a default setting that obviously aren't meant for default. Again use different ammo, put loot at 200%, air drops every day, loot respawn to the shortest amount of time and that will solve your issue. If you refuse to do that then it's on you for not wanting to make those changes to suit your individual play style. You are basically asking a dungeon master that your glass cannon build should tank Orcs with no issues because it isn't fair that an actual tank can do it and you cant.

[HungryZombie]

How many bones do you need? My question is sincere. Just curious what cool things glue can be used for that makes people want to use glue. I barely use it myself so I wonder what I'm not thinking of.

 

Thx

[CoolJ]

Ok well there you go. You have options and ways already implemented into the game you just refuse to use them. At this point you are coming across as stubborn when people offer you viable options that do not require modding the game through xml files. Obviously their is an issue with your play style because you seem to want insane amount of resources on a default setting that obviously aren't meant for default. Again use different ammo, put loot at 200%, air drops every day, loot respawn to the shortest amount of time and that will solve your issue. If you refuse to do that then it's on you for not wanting to make those changes to suit your individual play style. You are basically asking a dungeon master that your glass cannon build should tank Orcs with no issues because it isn't fair that an actual tank can do it and you cant.

 

Do you completely not understand the concept of "default" settings being playable? I don't need 200% more of everything. Default needs more bone and fat resource. You still don't understand the concept of people being able to play the game they way they want to. The recipes for better ammo exist. I speced into it for a reason. FFS you are dense.

[Slingblade2040]

Do you completely not understand the concept of "default" settings being playable? I don't need 200% more of everything. Default needs more bone and fat resource. You still don't understand the concept of people being able to play the game they way they want to. The recipes for better ammo exist. I speced into it for a reason. FFS you are dense.

 

Umm so even though you can change the settings to suit how you want to play you refuse because you insist on playing the game on other settings? Default isn't meant for you to have insane amounts of special ammo just because you spec into it, obviously you can make the ammo you just want crazy amounts of it. if you want more of certain things you increase loot abundance, increase air drops, decrease loot respawn time so you can go back into that same town and reloot it and find more items. You insisting on only playing on default when you have other viable options to gather the resources you need is the issue. explain why you refuse to change the settings if it will fix the issue and let you play the way you want?

[FileMachete]

Consider Bones in the larger context of the overall game.

Pretty easy to see that random number jebus can have an extreme effect on a given game right?

 

1) how many working stations: if a Chem Station then you can have twice the amount of Glue as same 'game' without one

-- Beakers

2) every time you loot it's random. yes should even out but it by no means has to

3) every wandering horde; if lots of z-dogs, then lots of bones

4) Traitor stock

 

A Big one: we don't know if TFPs have decided that Bones will be a new shortage/grind. One could argue that by the quick introduction of roadway gore blocks for more bones that it -isn't- intended as one.

 

I'd personally argue against it being one since, A) there are already a number of those in game. B) Bones are one of the few resources that have an -optional- yet basically painless way to allow players in any setup to have enough of them. C) also very easy to prevent them from being OP'd, unlike some other resources.

 

In B) referring to suggestion to allow zombies to be harvested.

 

By C) consider the gunpowder cost of Exploding Bolts. Gunpowder is already a limiting resource, even when doubled if you have a Chem Station. If a player prefers ExBolts over 7.62/Shotgun ammo then fine by me. And consider the addition of Steel Casings to the game; that has to be looked at as a way to -reduce- the number of 'shortages' associated with making 9mm/7.62 ammo.

[pahbi]

How many bones do you need? My question is sincere. Just curious what cool things glue can be used for that makes people want to use glue. I barely use it myself so I wonder what I'm not thinking of.

 

Thx

 

Pretty much everything late game, vehicles, armor, weapons, mods, require duct tape, and in the case of vehicles, often times in substantial amounts. If your lucky, you can loot duct tape or get it at traders. Duct tape is such a critical thing that road kill was added in at the last minute to provide extra bones.

 

I thought I read the devs are taking balance pass at things, so I'm sure in the long run, it will be worked out.

 

In the meantime, I made a modlet that lets a player make glue from rotting flesh at a chemistry station.

 

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?99028-MODLET-make-glue-from-rotting-flesh-at-chemistry-station

 

- P

[Kosmic Kerman]

How many bones do you need? My question is sincere. Just curious what cool things glue can be used for that makes people want to use glue. I barely use it myself so I wonder what I'm not thinking of.

 

Thx

 

Repair kits, explosive bolts, shotgun shells.

[LuckyStar]

Maybe your idea sucks. I dont know you get back what you give when you post.

 

Sure we need more bones but no no no to harvesting any zombies anymore. Increase the drop on animals and on the gore piles.

 

I modded this in.

Gave animals x5 bones and problem solved.

Not too many, not too few.... was just right.

 

How about coffins in the graveyards. Can we have bones as a high probability to drop in those. Would give people a more compelling reason to become a grave robber

 

I actually like this idea.

 

You know... aside from the macabre fact that we're stealing bones from dead folks.

 

[FileMachete]

Yep, lots of solid ways to address this, if of course, TFPs consider Bones to be along the lines of Cotton and not an intentional squeeze.

 

While I to have bad memories of hacking up all the zombies, I reconsidered after factoring in that it wouldn't be a 'must do', not at all, the corpses would still quickly disappear so maybe after taking out a 'normal zeds' wandering horde you'd be able to harvest a couple three then the rest go away.

 

The argument that has me leaning that way a bit more than a large increase in bones from animals is simply the rng factor on animal spawns. While I don't bother stopping and getting off the bike (that I -finally- have!) to whack a lone z on the side of the road, I certainly stop if I see a hog or deer.

 

But who knows, maybe a bit across the board would be best? I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that the devs don't decide that a "Bone Grind" is too good a pun to pass up

[pahbi]

The graves would need to respawn from time to time, but it makes sense, bones from buzzards and snakes would be helpful.

 

To a large extent, in a world where some catastrophe wiped out 80% of the population, and turned the rest into homicidal zombies, it seems like bones should be pretty easy to find. Especially in the hub city, you should find bones in every nook and cranny.

 

From a historical point of view, folks have been making glue from collagen (animal bones, and connective tissues) for a long time, so it makes sense you would boil bones in a chemistry station to make glue.

 

I really believe the bone issue will be worked out, and all we need to do now are work arounds until something official happens.

 

- P

[Jugginator]

So, are we getting fat-pimps giving out bones in the game or not?

[Aldranon]

What is the source of the glue problem? Guns and Ammo.

 

Guns breaking down too fast, because damage is so low they need lots of ammo fighting at high GS is part of it.

A partial solution would be to make guns a bit more realistically reliable and damaging.

 

The big problem IMO is paper. Paper for shotgun shells. Allow magazines to scrap for up to 50 paper would be a generous solution.

 

 

**On a side note, are other people seeing the animal carcass's on the road? Not a lot of bones there, but it keeps things running for me.

[Buggi]

Paper!? On my MP server we have over 5000 paper and like 50 bones.

 

While schematics are valuable, we've started scrapping mags, which gives quite a bit of paper.

[Jugginator]

Paper!? On my MP server we have over 5000 paper and like 50 bones.

 

While schematics are valuable, we've started scrapping mags, which gives quite a bit of paper.

 

Yup, always 10 different ways to skin a cat lol. I honestly don't have too much trouble finding glue/ductape, hitting up trashcans / garbage piles on the way to hunt animals/goreblocks on the ground to traders and bookstores (also, the farm POIs have either tons of goreblocks or piggies - or both). Takes different methods, but that cat can definitely be skinned a few different ways.

[FileMachete]

I like the way you guys think. Even Jugginator but those Pimps better be wearing velvet suits and wild hats!

 

To your paper point Aldranon, glue isn't used to make paper in rl. In general (not always) the 'glue' holding the wood pulp together, 'lignin', is extracted and burned for energy to power the paper mill. But the lignin is in the wood, not an additive.

 

https://www.princeton.edu/~ota/disk1/1989/8931/893104.PDF

 

The road gore blocks? yeah, I've harvested all of those around me, get 1 bone per (no Huntsman perk). Playing Navsegane so not as many roads as it looks like RWG spawns, though, to be fair, I haven't been going all over the place; just got a bike for the first time.

 

pahbi, you reminded me of the writer K. J. Parker who did a fiction series 'The Fencer' where in the first book, Colours in the Steel, he covered in fine detail how plate armor was made, and in the second book, The Belly of the Bow, he described how bowers made composite bows, even went into the glue making process. Heck of a story teller too, though pretty damn dark in his plots.