Will the AI introduced in Alpha 17 be too good?

[azmothman]

I am definitely excited and looking forward to playing Alpha 17 along with all the hard work, improvements, and the new AI.

 

However with the feedback from Madmole in other threads I am concerned that our bases that we build will easily be destroyed than in other prior releases and time will tell if this is true or not since only TFP have played alpha 17.

 

I have no problem with my initial base to be destroyed but something I spent a considerable amount of time building it's defense like an underground base that it may be easy to be destroyed maybe futile.

 

What are your thoughts on this? 😀

[SylenThunder]

I will be very happy to see the end of drop pits and tower bases. It will be interesting to see how much of a difference the AI makes.

 

I know a couple of my early bases I typically use now won't function any more, so I'll probably spend the first couple hordes fighting zeds on the run. I'll bet you can still get them to chase you in circles and just pick em off one by one.

 

For my larger build, I don't think much will change. I don't exploit the AI very much currently, although the changes to dogs will pose a challenge to my current setup.

 

I'm certain you'll still be able to make some of the builds using partial blocks that zeds can't walk through while shooting in between them. The toothy design won't work very well, but there are plenty of other ways.

It will really support having two separate bases instead of one. A base for horde night, and a base for everything else.

[Katitof]

As long as AI will do stuff that will invalidate "I am immortal at this spot" bases, I'm content.

[SnowDog1942]

If you are worried put the game on the easiest difficulty. Bring on the AI!!!!

[Roland]

As long as you actively defend you will be fine. Sitting on a rooftop and not doing anything to reduce the numbers is likely going to result in the building getting torn down around you or due to destruction, pathways opening up to where you are and the zombies attacking you. They now know all possible pathways to get to you. In one house I was on the second floor with no access to where I was or so I thought. But there was a possible pathway to me by hacking through a wall and getting on the roof and running around and then hacking through a window near where I was hiding. They found it and I was fighting for my life and ultimately had to abandon my perch and make a run for it.

 

A17 is very dangerous and very good.

[Gas]

I'm all for AI that is too good. That's been my primary frustration with the game. The current AI is really, really, really bad. I know people talk about exploiting the AI but man, I've watched zombies walk right past me to punch the stairs I used to be on. I've actually walked away from zombie bears and dogs out of pity for them as they spin around in circles. As SnowDog says, Bring on the AI!!!!

[Crater Creator]

The fact that they can get to you will be, hopefully, a fundamental shift. You can’t balance the game at all if the player is unreachable. Now it’s possible to balance.

 

Maybe some numbers will need tweaking: zombie HP, zombie quantities, zombie damage to blocks or entities, etc. But that should really come down to how much brute force effort is required to survive horde night.

 

For instance, if you have a solid moat of spikes twenty blocks deep, that’s going to kill a lot whether the AI pathing is really good or not. But maintaining those spikes is a challenge. No more something for nothing - that’s the real idea here, and everything else is a matter of tuning how much effort we’re talking about to survive.

 

In other words yeah, it could be too hard but that doesn’t mean the AI is too good. You can and should bring the difficulty back down in other ways than creating situations the AI can’t handle.

[Pille]

But maintaining those spikes is a challenge.

 

Why is maintaining some spikes a challenge?

 

 

As long as you actively defend you will be fine. Sitting on a rooftop and not doing anything to reduce the numbers is likely going to result in the building getting torn down around you or due to destruction, pathways opening up to where you are and the zombies attacking you.

 

I guess you're talking about rather small buildings because I don't think that the zeds will tear down skyscrapers or find ways through them.

 

 

I will be very happy to see the end of drop pits and tower bases. It will be interesting to see how much of a difference the AI makes.

 

Their AI makes them immune to fall damage or what's the idea behind your statement? *scratches head*

[pApA^LeGBa]

A small tower of one block surrounded with 2 rows of ironbars on top and 4 rows of spikes underneath will still do it i guess. Unless the zombies got way stronger.

 

And that´s good. There should always be another way than having to fight face to face in a genremix. Unless this is suddenly a pure FPS game and not a genremix anymore. Wich would suck hardcore.

[Sarsante]

I just hope you guys fix the spawn right at players head issue.

 

Im fine with zombies shredding everything to get to you, but clear a room turn away and a zombie spawns on your head is super cheap and should be removed. idk if it's a bug or indeed intended, but its annoying.

[SylenThunder]

I just hope you guys fix the spawn right at players head issue.

 

Im fine with zombies shredding everything to get to you, but clear a room turn away and a zombie spawns on your head is super cheap and should be removed. idk if it's a bug or indeed intended, but its annoying.

This was fixed a while ago

[SnowDog1942]

Why is maintaining some spikes a challenge?

 

 

 

 

I guess you're talking about rather small buildings because I don't think that the zeds will tear down skyscrapers or find ways through them.

 

 

 

 

Their AI makes them immune to fall damage or what's the idea behind your statement? *scratches head*

 

I think Roland should stay on large building rooftop with no access on horde night and let us know what haopens. Do it, you wont...

[SylenThunder]

I think Roland should stay on large building rooftop with no access on horde night and let us know what haopens. Do it, you wont...

This was posted a while ago, but I don't recall where.

 

The base of an internal tester playing on insane... less than 3 minutes into horde night.

[Sarsante]

This was fixed a while ago

 

Nah, still happens in 16.4

 

@12:15

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

This was fixed a while ago

 

Lol. Nope. Still happens. And it´s not sleepers that i didn´t see. Cleared out rooms, including looking in every little corner and making sure there is no sleeper hiddenm, also checked every wall and the ceiling. Done that, turn around. Bam. Spawn in my face.

[JCrook1028]

Um, it was fixed a while ago..... for A17. Faatal has stated so here in the forums.

[RestInPieces]

As long as you actively defend you will be fine. Sitting on a rooftop and not doing anything to reduce the numbers is likely going to result in the building getting torn down around you or due to destruction, pathways opening up to where you are and the zombies attacking you. They now know all possible pathways to get to you. In one house I was on the second floor with no access to where I was or so I thought. But there was a possible pathway to me by hacking through a wall and getting on the roof and running around and then hacking through a window near where I was hiding. They found it and I was fighting for my life and ultimately had to abandon my perch and make a run for it.

 

A17 is very dangerous and very good.

 

Ah, that's excellent news.

What I would really want for the future is for zombies to have a few more attack animations with different animation speeds and a bit of RNG in their actions when they get close to you so that they feel more organic and become more unpredictable.

[Viktoriusiii]

No .

[Damocles]

Would be nice if there is more unpredictability about the pathing abilities of zombies.

Such that the vast majority of them has the "standard" abilities. Still getting hung up on certain features.

 

But some of them are "smarter", and are able to take jumps over gaps, open standard doors and use a jump to reach and climb a ladder.

 

So the player never feels safe, while not having the majority of zombies to be able to have the same movement as the player - usually.

[SylenThunder]

Lol. Nope. Still happens. And it´s not sleepers that i didn´t see. Cleared out rooms, including looking in every little corner and making sure there is no sleeper hiddenm, also checked every wall and the ceiling. Done that, turn around. Bam. Spawn in my face.

Ok, let me say it this way then.

 

A few months ago Faatal confirmed that this is fixed in a17.

So it's confirmed as fixed.

[Sarsante]

Ok, let me say it this way then.

 

A few months ago Faatal confirmed that this is fixed in a17.

So it's confirmed as fixed.

 

oh, ok thanks

[Atrophied]

Would be nice if there is more unpredictability about the pathing abilities of zombies.

Such that the vast majority of them has the "standard" abilities. Still getting hung up on certain features.

 

But some of them are "smarter", and are able to take jumps over gaps, open standard doors and use a jump to reach and climb a ladder.

 

So the player never feels safe, while not having the majority of zombies to be able to have the same movement as the player - usually.

 

I like that idea, would make absolute sense as well. Newly turned zombies should be smarter and faster while older ones should be slower and dumber as the body, especially the mind, are lost to the plague.

[LuckyStar]

Will the AI be too good?

 

[Kattla]

I am definitely excited and looking forward to playing Alpha 17 along with all the hard work, improvements, and the new AI.

 

However with the feedback from Madmole in other threads I am concerned that our bases that we build will easily be destroyed than in other prior releases and time will tell if this is true or not since only TFP have played alpha 17.

 

I have no problem with my initial base to be destroyed but something I spent a considerable amount of time building it's defense like an underground base that it may be easy to be destroyed maybe futile.

 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

My thoughts, hmm. Perhaps A17 will be the time to make "race tracks" and have some racing fun

on horde nights.

[Scyris]

As long as you actively defend you will be fine. Sitting on a rooftop and not doing anything to reduce the numbers is likely going to result in the building getting torn down around you or due to destruction, pathways opening up to where you are and the zombies attacking you. They now know all possible pathways to get to you. In one house I was on the second floor with no access to where I was or so I thought. But there was a possible pathway to me by hacking through a wall and getting on the roof and running around and then hacking through a window near where I was hiding. They found it and I was fighting for my life and ultimately had to abandon my perch and make a run for it.

 

A17 is very dangerous and very good.

 

My first horde night, in A17 I'm going to do what I used to do in the previous alpha's: Get on the 2nd floor of a poi and knock out the stairs. I know its not going to work, but I really wanna see the new AI in action. I do admit I dislike the fact there is no headshot bonus without that one perk in the perception tree I think. We should be rewarded for good aim for headshots as a baseline and that perk can just make it better. Otherwise, I'd just go for easier bodyshots if its going to take the same amount of hits to kill them. I hope the headshot thing changes, and there is a headshot bonus even without the skill. Otherwise it'll kinda make the combat way to easy as you can just go for body shots. Its a worry I have that i'll not really be able to do much about till A17 experemental finally comes out.