Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[SylenThunder]

This counts as inanity. I just want the focus to shift from how chill chose to post his POV.

 

I'll even help Chill out since I know the main source of his anger: What about not being able to hear other players from miles away so you can hunt them down. Ever since the devs changed the game by nerfing sound distance PvP has suffered.

Agreed. If you want to continue the PvP discussion, this thread should work out just fine.

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?82458-PVP-in-7-days-to-die

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Just be sure to read the thread before you start continuing the discussion please.

[Janna3921]

Apparently, the Janna drought is over....

 

Good to see you back

 

Thanks Roland

 

Figured no one would notice or care. Was too stressed from shoulder and then back and not able to play. Can play some now, more relaxed and so don't want to rip heads off; just snarl at some here and there. LOVE (emphasis, not shouting) the War of the Walker mod. I can play it, still have zombies off, but so much fun running around doing some playing and using the Creative mode to help in building.

Weird thing is, with zombies off, no bears, wolves, vultures and snakes.

[Guppycur]

I'm confused; Roland directed us to get BACK to the inanity, and counted the discussion AS inanity, thus implying I can carry on.

 

Sylen directed us to a different thread.

 

Where can I be inane at?!?? =)

[Janna3921]

I'm confused; Roland directed us to get BACK to the inanity, and counted the discussion AS inanity, thus implying I can carry on.

 

Sylen directed us to a different thread.

 

Where can I be inane at?!?? =)

 

 

I thought you were always inane. LOL (missed your discussions, my friend)

[toores]

Let's get back to inanity until a dev posts again.

 

How about a video by MM? Cough*video*cough! This makes even the PVE-ers go crazy in this thread.

(btw, nice PVP skills on the reply back there)

[Tin]

...alternatively...

 

Since quite a few pvp discussions end in the quick departure of the pvp'ers, indicating that a lot of them aren't capable of discussing pvp without getting enraged, and it IS in fact a design in this game despite the popular misconception that "it was never designed for pvp" (I mean, there is a menu option for it, after all, that didn't get put there by elves), I'm suggesting we do something else.

 

I suggest a few PvE people (happy to advocate) take up the PvP mantle and discuss why the game should be more PvP oriented and what can be done to improve that experience.

 

This may allow for a better understanding from PvE'ers what the PvP'ers want, since the posts won't be filled with the typical vitriol and #fakenews/stats that usually comes from a PvP'ers perspective.

 

 

***

 

I would start by saying that PvP is indeed fun in 7 days to die, as it allows for a unique experience in building, long term leveling up and of course an exterior threat; one of fortnite's greatest attributes is base design, and that's something 7days has an advantage in. It IS in fact a missed opportunity for TFP to make extra cash, and although I won't fake-speculate on how much of an opportunity, I could certainly point out the obvious PvP has a place in the gaming world.

 

Although it certainly doesn't seem to be a current goal, I would hope that TFP considers a "PvP Patch" for DLC, that would fix a lot of the issues plaguing PvP right now.

 

Issues such as:

Turning down graphics to get a better view of your enemy

Digging terrain pits a certain way to get a world view

LCP protection flaws

Leveled everything affecting player balance even worse than "free pay to play game systems" do

 

***

 

...now this discussion will only work if NO PVP PLAYERS participate, since that will only trigger the PvE side and the old arguments would commence... and it takes away from its purpose, to get PvE players to see the other side a little bit better, without all of the old arguments that muddy good discussion.

 

Food for though. Oh, and I would suggest it take place here, since this is the thread most read.

 

Things to make pvp interesting in 7d2d (imo):

No hybrid maps having both pve and pvp.

Proper map(s) to encourage battle grounds fights for unique resources.

Factions that the player can choose to be part of.

Able to take over other factions stronghold areas and actually conquer the map.

Bringing up the map shows faction influence areas.

Having a NPC bandit faction that no player can join.

Death = goto nearest occupied controlled faction area.

Removal of most of the natural skill progression.

Perk purchase skills only.

Remove quality/durability from gear. All gear is created equal.

Can't building in opposing faction areas unless you take over that area.

etc,.

 

Edit: haha please more post to proper area..

[Scyris]

 

 

99% of the population of the steam playerbase.

 

And would be more like 90% of this game's playerbase too, which would be 10x bigger with a little love towards PVP aspects.

 

Which is of course, suppressed quite successfully by low-intelligence high-free-time-and-willingness-to-make-10k-posts people like you on forums like this.

 

Was on discord discussing this with 15 other people of a popular 7 Days Server the other day and them all telling me about their forum posts being censored / not approved / moved / brigaded-by-pve-idiots-posting-off-topic and generally destroying their threads if they mention anything relating to PVP.

 

Glad to know that it's a common experience. Irony is you don't seem capable of realizing that shooting yourself in the foot; because with the influx of players / excitement / purchases that would come with some TLC paid to the aspects of the game that clearly offend you (PvP), the game as a whole would likely benefit to the extent of improving more the aspects you enjoy (PvE) than it would remaining in it's current state of popularity / niche...

 

And it would save you the time of making thousands of posts like this and abusing your mod powers... you know, if you don't just enjoy doing those things for the sake of doing those things.

 

 

 

 

Mod Note: This post contains insults. Please don't respond to the insults.

 

Protip: 7dtd was never meant to be mainly pvp, its meant to be co-op pve from the get go, it just has pvp tossed in as its not hard to enable it. Don't ever expect the game to be balanced around pvp, because it won't ever be. As for the 99% of steam players pvp, your dead wrong, there is probally less than 10-20% that care for it. Might pvp get tweaked in the future? very possible, but is it high on the priorty list? not very likely, its probally near the very bottom. Its a waste of their time to cater to the minority. If you wanna go gank people because that is what pvp actually is to most of these so called "pvpers" they can't handle a even fight if their life depended on it. There are many other games that offer it.

 

Also minecraft went for years with only pve content and it did amazingly well, when they added pvp th

[meganoth]

I suggest a few PvE people (happy to advocate) take up the PvP mantle and discuss why the game should be more PvP oriented and what can be done to improve that experience.

 

...

 

Issues such as:

Turning down graphics to get a better view of your enemy

Digging terrain pits a certain way to get a world view

LCP protection flaws

Leveled everything affecting player balance even worse than "free pay to play game systems" do

 

Not sure discussing this makes much sense, what do you expect to achieve? The issues listed are already well known. And isn't there a statement of the developers that they intent to do something about PvP, just not before release?

 

You won't find much enthusiasm in the PvE player base in the forum to change that schedule through voting/campaigning. But likewise the sensible people here in the forum won't throw a tantrum when PvP players get some patches in.

 

So, for me personally, I have nothing against TFPs plan to improve PvP when they think it's time. You can't expect more from a PvE player.

[Guppycur]

Not sure discussing this makes much sense, what do you expect to achieve?

 

Pass the time? Drop little seedlets of ideas, if not to the devs but to the modders?

 

...I can already see Tin's wheels spinning. I bet a dollar he's already solved (in his head) 60% of the issues he brought up.

[Marinxar]

...alternatively...

 

....

 

The main problem for me personally is, PvP'rs/PK'rs love to take things too far, or better used term, to grief. I like PvP between friends, we hunt and kill each other, we laugh have a good time about it. In that sense, it's all good.

 

You engage a PvP guy, he freaks out, kills you, destroy your base, destroy your farms, eat your cats and then sit there and rage for weeks on your spawn point just in case you spawn so he can kill you again.

 

Also, PvP servers also draw those that find it fun to hack and exploit.

 

That from my perspective, is why I am happy that 7 Days to die are not focusing more on PvP, because the game allows for such amazing PvE gameplay, and "friendly" PvP, that frankly competitive PvP kind of ruin it.

[The Gronk]

Also minecraft went for years with only pve content and it did amazingly well, when they added pvp th

 

What happened? Did you get shot before you could finish typing?

[Guppycur]

The main problem for me personally is, PvP'rs/PK'rs love to take things too far, or better used term, to grief. I like PvP between friends, we hunt and kill each other, we laugh have a good time about it. In that sense, it's all good.

 

You engage a PvP guy, he freaks out, kills you, destroy your base, destroy your farms, eat your cats and then sit there and rage for weeks on your spawn point just in case you spawn so he can kill you again.

 

Also, PvP servers also draw those that find it fun to hack and exploit.

 

That from my perspective, is why I am happy that 7 Days to die are not focusing more on PvP, because the game allows for such amazing PvE gameplay, and "friendly" PvP, that frankly competitive PvP kind of ruin it.

 

Yes, but that's a perspective from a PvP'er.

 

Look, PvP can be fun... there are ways to mod the game to make it fun for all, so it's just a matter of finding out what those fun settings are, and implementing them.

[Cazmyr]

What happened? Did you get shot before you could finish typing?

 

I don't think so because if they had (and Monty Python taught us anything) they would have typed:

 

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Scyris]

I'm confused. The stating of stats of one site does not count as accurate in going that others feel the same way. And stats can be manipulated and I really don't trust them, learned that in sadistic I mean statistic class in college.

 

You start off with insults and end with the insult repeated and then try to make it look like you are joking. Didn't work for me, you are still insulting and that is the reason for PVP players getting their posts banned.

 

I have visited forums that have had PVP players encouraged by developers, such as the ones in ARK, where they like for the PVP players to be vicious, act in ways that in real life would have them labeled as sadistic psychopaths. They seemed to like where they could join PVE servers and do so in ways that killed or injured players and not go anything to stop it.

 

Fortunately, here it isn't that way. I wouldn't be supporting the developers, posting on this forum and play this game if that was allowed. Perhaps that is why some PVPs feel unwelcome here; their style of playing, of not only being as cruel as they can and allowed to be sadistic and do so on PVE servers which is what gets them banned. Those type of players don't want to accept that it is their attitude, rudeness and egotistical behaviors, not that of moderators and forum members, who rebuke them for their actions bring about their being banned.

 

Most "pvpers" are really just cowards and bullies, they wouldn't risk a fair fight, they'd run from it, see it all the time in these open pvp games, they get max lv, go around ganking newbies as thats about all their skill level allows, but second someone shows up who can fight back, these so called pvpers usually turn tail and run with their tail between their legs. To me random ganking of players who can't even put up a fight back doesn't count as pvp at all. Its just you being an ass. Sadly this is what 90%-98% of the "pvp playerbase" is. Its very rare to see a real pvper that actually looks for a decent fight. Ganking new players and people who can't fight back just doesn't seem any fun.

 

Also their attitude tends to suck, Then again what do you expect from a group of people that think that going around killing level 1's while they are at level cap is fun?

[Gamida]

I can see the appeal of PVP. Having a real thinking person on the other side of the gun pointed at you seems to give more of a challenge for those who play that way. I don't think any AI will ever be able to compete with actual human players. In order for it to work properly though I would imagine it would have to have a mode tailored specifically for PVP.

[Guppycur]

Most "pvpers" are really just cowards and bullies, they wouldn't risk a fair fight, they'd run from it, see it all the time in these open pvp games, they get max lv, go around ganking newbies as thats about all their skill level allows, but second someone shows up who can fight back, these so called pvpers usually turn tail and run with their tail between their legs. To me random ganking of players who can't even put up a fight back doesn't count as pvp at all. Its just you being an ass. Sadly this is what 90%-98% of the "pvp playerbase" is. Its very rare to see a real pvper that actually looks for a decent fight. Ganking new players and people who can't fight back just doesn't seem any fun.

 

Also their attitude tends to suck, Then again what do you expect from a group of people that think that going around killing level 1's while they are at level cap is fun?

 

Ah well, I tried to keep the convo productive.

[The Gronk]

Most "pvpers" are really just cowards and bullies, they wouldn't risk a fair fight, they'd run from it, see it all the time in these open pvp games, they get max lv, go around ganking newbies as thats about all their skill level allows, but second someone shows up who can fight back, these so called pvpers usually turn tail and run with their tail between their legs. To me random ganking of players who can't even put up a fight back doesn't count as pvp at all. Its just you being an ass. Sadly this is what 90%-98% of the "pvp playerbase" is. Its very rare to see a real pvper that actually looks for a decent fight. Ganking new players and people who can't fight back just doesn't seem any fun.

 

Also their attitude tends to suck, Then again what do you expect from a group of people that think that going around killing level 1's while they are at level cap is fun?

 

Yep, they need to take a look at the society of the Yaut'ja or Klingon, a kill is only worth kudos if it's a challenge.

[Gamida]

Ah well, I tried to keep the convo productive.

 

You tried Guppy but I think subconsciously you knew it wouldn't work. I even pictured one of those "Hitler Vids" with you as Hitler talking about how you did try to bridge the gap between PVPers and PVEers but it not working out.

[Bubo]

...Weird thing is, with zombies off, no bears, wolves, vultures and snakes.

 

I would love to see a pve-Animals-only game option (with all of the 7dtd critters)

 

.. and welcome back

[Scyris]

I would love to see a pve-Animals-only game option (with all of the 7dtd critters)

 

.. and welcome back

 

I am actually more afraid of the wolves, bears and dogs than any of the zombies. That zombie bear is a frigging tank, Hits like one too. When I am roaming around the second I hear a wolf howl I just stop dead and my tracks and start trying to find it before it finds me. They hit like trucks on higher diffculties.

[Tin]

Ah well, I tried to keep the convo productive.

 

I tried to keep it going but alas it wasn't meant to be

[Azmodeth]

naw, unrealistic

[Odetta]

As a gamer here:

Why not some kind of controlled PvP system in general? Someone that wants to shoot at you has to call you out, then you would get 20 seconds or so to get the hell out of there or be ready to fight. Then fights are always fair in that regard. It wouldn't stop them from say, setting mines outside a door of a house you were looting or anything. But for ranged it would provide a more fair and, dare I say it, fun way to duel it out. It's never fun to be shot in the back, there is a reason you rarely see that kind of thing in shows and movies, it's boring and shooting someone in the back has been frowned upon since the invention of the ranged weapon.

 

This would allow say, a sniper perk that would lower the callout time, but you would have to specialize in it. I'm not speaking as a dev here. I've just thought about games and how things work on say, walking dead when there is a confrontation. Rick and the other leaders get right up in each other's business before a firefight. That, in my mind makes the upcoming fight that much more intense. Knowing you have X time to post up, and them knowing that they can't attack you until that timer is out.

 

Just a thought from a guy with oddball ideas. lol

 

PS, I know it sounds very western(ish) heh

 

What ever system you guys put in, just as long as we can collect noses.

 

[Roland]

Yes, but that's a perspective from a PvP'er.

 

Look, PvP can be fun... there are ways to mod the game to make it fun for all, so it's just a matter of finding out what those fun settings are, and implementing them.

 

Has ANYONE made such a comprehensive mod? You'd think that with the alleged popularity of PvP on all these other forums that there would be a badass mod to create a Battle Royale 7 Days to Die experience.

 

Can no hardcore PvPers mod?

 

If I could get out of my paper bag I would totally do a PvP mod just to see whether it skyrockets in popularity and drains everyone from Ravenhearst.... (love ya Jax).

 

Alas, low-intelligence foils me again.

[RavenGT]

Meh, I've never had issues with PVPers other than hackers. Severs generally do best with active, empowered admins. I'm also super selective about servers anyways. That said, I think that on PVP servers, implementing the call-out system would kinda break the immersion for me. The real world apocalypse wouldn't hold my hand. Just my own $0.02, though there are probably many options to look at when addressing the PVP abuse that goes on which makes a game less than enjoyable.