Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Kosmic Kerman]

so are we getting basic dupe methods fixed in A17?

 

I’m sure TFP will do the best they can but...7dtd was not originally intended to be multiplayer, multiplayer was added because MM thought cooperative play would be fun, and 7dtd is not server authoritative. So, there are likely to always be problems on PVP servers because the game was never designed for PVP. It seems clear to me that TFP try hard to eliminate duping but their hands are somewhat tied because the game was not designed from the ground up for PVP.

[Prisma501]

I’m sure TFP will do the best they can but...7dtd was not originally intended to be multiplayer, multiplayer was added because MM thought cooperative play would be fun, and 7dtd is not server authoritative. So, there are likely to always be problems on PVP servers because the game was never designed for PVP. It seems clear to me that TFP try hard to eliminate duping but their hands are somewhat tied because the game was not designed from the ground up for PVP.

 

^ exactly that.

 

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?52805-Developer-Diary-Alpha-16!!!&p=663632&viewfull=1#post663632

 

Cheers

[Survager]

- What are your problems?

- Doctor, everyone ignores me...

- Who's next?

 

[Prisma501]

Useful in what way? If MM decided to call A17 Beta or even super duper GOLD 3.0, in what way will that be useful or not useful to anyone? The game will still be in exactly the same shape it is right now. A17 will still come out when it comes out. And, TFP will make any other updates after A17 that they intend to make. He could call it blueberry pie and it still wouldn't change the state of the game as it is right now.

 

But the attention generated feels sooooooo good

 

Just stop feeding, that will help.

 

Cheers

[Roland]

Roland, what about three version of movement: walk, run and sprint? I right or not???

 

Sorry. My oversight. I’ll update it when I’m not on mobile. The crouched creeping walk is the same. The regular movement is faster than it used to be and the run is faster but depletes stamina faster as well. It’s a change for sure so I’ll list it in the changes.

[Roland]

Roland, will we get sound effects about hunger and thirst as it is now in Alpha 16?

 

Probably. I hope so. I need them for invisible HUD play.

[Gamida]

 

 

 

"Those look lumpy. Is that intended?"

"Madmole dropped a cookie once while eating. Don't you find it weird that since he didn't eat that cookie perfectly he is still making cookies?"

"Those look like they're still raw!!! Why are you going with raw instead of baked?

"I rate this picture a 3 out of 10 because I always assumed it was going to be Snickerdoodles"

"Eating raw cookie dough is bad for you. You could get salmonella."

"I don't see milk in the picture. Your lunch will fail since you aren't going to have milk"

"Girl Scouts are doing their cookie rush soon. These should have been baked a month ago. Now you won't want to eat these with your lunch if you have Thin Mints in the freezer."

"Why are you going with the metal pan format instead of using a stone?"

 

Why not give us those cookies now? There doesn't seem to be any bugs in them.

[Survager]

Probably. I hope so. I need them for invisible HUD play.

 

Thanks for answers )

[Xtrakicking]

Remember that everything being shown is essentially the designed Navezgane map. They very well may keep every POI ever made whether it be open and gutted or mazelike and cluttered as possible spawns for Random Gen. I doubt any POI's converted to dungeonstyle for the static Navezgane map will also remain in its original form somewhere else in Navezgane.

 

So my answer is that it is not yet known how all these 70 dungeon POI's (which are a mixture of brand new and repurposed) will be worked into Random Gen. Navezgane will be packed full of 'em for sure.

 

#overlookednomore

 

Well, they better. The great majority of the community plays random gen, and it would be a big shame if these cool dungeon style POIs don't get to be in rwg.

[toores]

I love you too brother.

 

I get mixed feelings here because in the reputation comments you wrote: "Personal attacks are a no-no."

So let me clarify something. Please don't take it personally that i don't want to read what you are saying. I know that i can just skip it all, but a filter would be helpful.

 

So, i went back and read your feedback because i skipped it the first time.

 

 

Thanks for the video. As always, I have my list of feedback.

 

1. Silencer looks nice. Is the stealth system already properly implemented? Else the silencer might just be eye-candy.

 

2. You said something about new AI/pathing. But I don't see any changes as compared with A16. At 1:23 (and at 1:34, and at 2:53) I see the spawned zombie not walking towards you. Is this intended? It just looks.. Very poor. Even compared with A16.

 

3. The ragdoll-effect-upon-stunning looks.. Fake. It just plops over and even moves on the ground (at 1:48 and at 2:42, and at 12:50, and at 13:23, and at 13:45, and at 15:44, and at 19:06, and at 19:22, and at 19:49, and at 21:24). Is this intended? How about him jumping into the air at 2:16? Or at 11:20? or at 11:29? Or at 17:02? Or at 17:33? How about him doing some sort of Jesus-move at 13:49? Or the guys getting stuck at 14:40, and his weird-looking leg? The stun animation seriously needs to be redone.

 

4. Adjusted walking speed. Meh. That was not one of the major issues in the game, was it?

 

5. I kinda see where you wanted to go with the blacked out portion of the health/stamina bars, but in stead of sleeping recharging it (like in many other survival games), you went with eating/drinking? Meh.

 

6. Over 70 new dungeons for this build? I sincerely hope not all houses are converted into these dungeons..?

 

7. New model of Trader Joel looks nice.

 

8. Why is it that you can hit a tree with a jeep with full speed, and not damage the jeep? The trees falls down.

 

9. Oh, now A17 is getting close to Beta? Make. Up. Your. Mind.

 

10. Got rid of the Plains biome? Why. Why. Why? Yeah that's what this game needs. Less diversity.

 

11. Got rid of the Maple forest biome? Oh jeez... So there's only 5 biomes left in the world? Lol. Monotomy ahead.

 

12. Perishton looks nice, I have to admit. Please tell me that not all buildings are dungeons. Please.

 

13. The AI is gonna blow us away when it is in, you guys. Trust me. Believe me. Guys.

 

14. Dead-drop quests sound nice.

 

15. The health kit seems bugged.

 

16. #completelynewgame

 

17. You said you have new terrain tools. Will we get them?

 

 

All in all I'm afraid I can't rate the video more than a 5 or 6 out of 10 man.

 

 

And i must say, i'm every bit as disappointed as i expected to be. Then i read Roland's "When Madmole Makes Chocolate Chip Cookies For Lunch..." and it's so on point, it makes me sad.

I just don't get it. You know that the game is taken to pieces and lots of it is not working and you make smirky comments about obvious things.

 

Like AI and ragdoll are obviously not working properly and you ask if it's intended? WTF???

Or like silencers are pointless if the stealth does not work... You really think that TFP can't understand that?

Every comment seems like you presume it's a finished feature: walking speed, jeep damage, health kit - still work in progress.

 

At least you overall attitude is pretty clear with the "meh"-s and "I'm afraid I can't rate the video more than a 5 or 6 out of 10 man".

 

15. The health kit seems bugged.

- i literally want to ask you, do you think they are stupid? Why comment on something like that?

 

13. The AI is gonna blow us away when it is in, you guys. Trust me. Believe me. Guys.

16. #completelynewgame

Sarcasm??

Based on previous performance i trust TFP to make AI better for a17.

And based on your posts i believe there is no reason i would want to read them in the future. Nothing personal, i just feel i don't get my time's worth.

[Survager]

The really great news about this is that max HP and stamina progression is handled through the attribute of Fortitude rather than as a direct result of eating or even worse playing the snow biome binge mini game... Instead eating and how you eat will manage your realtime wellness in terms of current max stamina and staying hydrated will effect your overall recovery rate for both stamina and health.

 

We again have the same maximum level of health and endurance, as it is now in 16 Alpha? (((

 

It's sad, boring and not interesting (((

 

I want these parameters to have different meanings, for example, using perks and skills, as it is here for example:

 

[Gamida]

Early birthday present maybe?

 

[TSBX]

Thanks for the video. As always, I have my list of feedback.

 

1. Silencer looks nice. Is the stealth system already properly implemented? Else the silencer might just be eye-candy. [Assumption that they will ♥♥♥♥ up stealth]

 

2. You said something about new AI/pathing. But I don't see any changes as compared with A16. At 1:23 (and at 1:34, and at 2:53) I see the spawned zombie not walking towards you. Is this intended? It just looks.. Very poor. Even compared with A16. [Assumption that they will ♥♥♥♥ up AI and pathing even though a dev that is working on said features has been very interactive with progress on said AI/pathing]

 

3. The ragdoll-effect-upon-stunning looks.. Fake. It just plops over and even moves on the ground (at 1:48 and at 2:42, and at 12:50, and at 13:23, and at 13:45, and at 15:44, and at 19:06, and at 19:22, and at 19:49, and at 21:24). Is this intended? How about him jumping into the air at 2:16? Or at 11:20? or at 11:29? Or at 17:02? Or at 17:33? How about him doing some sort of Jesus-move at 13:49? Or the guys getting stuck at 14:40, and his weird-looking leg? The stun animation seriously needs to be redone. [Assumption that end product will be exactly like it is now - ♥♥♥♥ed up.]

 

4. Adjusted walking speed. Meh. That was not one of the major issues in the game, was it? [Assumption that they ♥♥♥♥ed up their priorities, when it's very likely it's a 10 second XML edit to movement speed.]

 

5. I kinda see where you wanted to go with the blacked out portion of the health/stamina bars, but in stead of sleeping recharging it (like in many other survival games), you went with eating/drinking? Meh. [Assumption that they ♥♥♥♥ed up a feature you've never had any hands-on time with]

 

6. Over 70 new dungeons for this build? I sincerely hope not all houses are converted into these dungeons..? [Assumption that the devs ♥♥♥♥ed up POI balance]

 

7. New model of Trader Joel looks nice. [Exception to the rule]

 

8. Why is it that you can hit a tree with a jeep with full speed, and not damage the jeep? The trees falls down. [Another assumption that a look at a work-in-progress feature is final and they ♥♥♥♥ed up]

 

9. Oh, now A17 is getting close to Beta? Make. Up. Your. Mind. [Pedantics]

 

10. Got rid of the Plains biome? Why. Why. Why? Yeah that's what this game needs. Less diversity. [Fair point at face value, but we don't know what Kin has cooked up for RWG now that he isn't (primarily, as far as I know) solely dedicated to AI]

 

11. Got rid of the Maple forest biome? Oh jeez... So there's only 5 biomes left in the world? Lol. Monotomy ahead. [see above]

 

12. Perishton looks nice, I have to admit. Please tell me that not all buildings are dungeons. Please. [Now you're repeating yourself (again)]

 

13. The AI is gonna blow us away when it is in, you guys. Trust me. Believe me. Guys. [Abrasive dismissal of faatal even though he has been interactive with the community (One of your earlier soapbox rants) on progress in that regard]

 

14. Dead-drop quests sound nice. [Key word being "sound", meaning you'll reserve positive judgement until you see it first hand, a concept you should apply to your negative assumptions.]

 

15. The health kit seems bugged. [Another assumption that what we see is what we will get]

 

16. #completelynewgame [To quote you: "Meh."]

 

17. You said you have new terrain tools. Will we get them? [TFP have made great strides to expose a LOT of the game to XML for the purpose of being able to mod it. There is an option in your very own version of A16 with a WORLD EDITOR button. You're assuming worst case yet again.]

 

 

All in all I'm afraid I can't rate the video more than a 5 or 6 out of 10 man. [Lastly, you assume anyone cares about your "rating", especially the devs.]

 

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of things that I disagree with about the game, some of the "streamlining" and MMO inspired features at the fore, but for the most part, this game has been a home-run in immersion, survival, and my favorite post-apoc scenario, and I have over 2400 hours for a game I paid $25 USD for. Overall they've done a good job and while constructive criticism is massively important for feedback, being an Eeyore all the time does nothing to help, when every "constructive criticism" is just assuming that they ♥♥♥♥ed up unfinished features based on a sneak preview of work in progress.

[Xeen]

Early birthday present maybe?

 

 

I wouldn't put it past Roland.

[XCOUNTRY]

@Roland/TFP

 

How will the shift toggles sprint button work now that the base movement mechanic has changed to allow only short bursts of speed and fast stamina drain. I feel this may become a feature that doesn't have much practical application now. Again, just something I noticed. In your playing with the new sprint does this become an issue?

[Royal Deluxe]

No Panic, the speed stamina is drained will be easy to edit. (Nearly sure about that)

(Even if Hardcoded it should be easy to balance by TFP)

 

So not worth to discuss it (because of fear) before we can test/experience it

[Alphado-Jaki]

It'll stupidly easy to edit the base movement speed, it'll be in entityclasses.xml. You'll also be able to control the amount of stamina drain/recharge for various (stance+moveType) combos and all other "base values" that pertain to a player in there.

 

Nice. Anxiety is gone

[Scyris]

I am really bored IRL, A17 experemental needs to drop already so I can have something to do for a while. I'd even play it if its half or more broken I don't care.

 

That said, is the Jeep being made to move faster? I've seen it in a few videos but it feels like it moves pretty slow to me. If anything it should be faster than the minibike is.

[Scyris]

It'll stupidly easy to edit the base movement speed, it'll be in entityclasses.xml. You'll also be able to control the amount of stamina drain/recharge for various (stance+moveType) combos and all other "base values" that pertain to a player in there.

 

Ahh this is good, in A16.4 iirc its inside the asset files and is a real pain in the butt to edit right now, I tried to do it before and could never get it to work, so thanks TFP for moving it into the xml's where it'll be much easier to edit and play around with. Honestly I am fine with the stamina how it was in that video, it was of a lv 1 char with no skills at all, so of course its going to drain fast. I also love the new base walk speed being almost as fast as the sprint in A16.4, Maybe you could make it as fast? Even that sprint in A16.4 felt slow to me lol.

 

The more stuff you guys at TFP can allow us easy access to for modding purposes the better.

 

Is there anyway we can have a over ride folder? so we could put custom textures etc in there kinda like how fallout/elder scrolls work? Where it'll use the loose player added textures over the ingame ones? Or the models from in there over in game etc? Modders would have a field day if it was easy to mod textures, models, add weapons etc, would also bring alot more life into the game as well since even now the modding community is pretty big for it not really having "offical" support/system for modding in yet.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

@Roland/TFP

 

How will the shift toggles sprint button work now that the base movement mechanic has changed to allow only short bursts of speed and fast stamina drain. I feel this may become a feature that doesn't have much practical application now. Again, just something I noticed. In your playing with the new sprint does this become an issue?

 

I am guessing they want sprint to be more of a "Oh Crap!" button than something you always use, thats why they made the base movement speed almost as fast as sprinting in A16.4 is. Remember the char this was shown on was level 1, with no skills yet, so the drain is probally not so bad once you got some levels and skills under your characters belt.

[faatal]

That said, is the Jeep being made to move faster? I've seen it in a few videos but it feels like it moves pretty slow to me. If anything it should be faster than the minibike is.

 

It is faster than the minibike, by a safe amount. Before release all the vehicle speeds will need to be finalized. What you see in demo videos, is often not the final values for much of anything. Once all the systems are working well together is when values will get dialed in.

[Prisma501]

There is an "ignore list" feature if you look at a user's profile.

 

Oh! Thank you!

 

2 users i will never have to read from again. Great tip!

 

Cheers

[Royal Deluxe]

Oh! Thank you!

 

2 users i will never have to read from again. Great tip!

 

Cheers

 

You cant ignore Moderators/Admins

[DaVegaNL]

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of things that I disagree with about the game, some of the "streamlining" and MMO inspired features at the fore, but for the most part, this game has been a home-run in immersion, survival, and my favorite post-apoc scenario, and I have over 2400 hours for a game I paid $25 USD for. Overall they've done a good job and while constructive criticism is massively important for feedback, being an Eeyore all the time does nothing to help, when every "constructive criticism" is just assuming that they ♥♥♥♥ed up unfinished features based on a sneak preview of work in progress.

 

Thanks for the comments mate. I agree with you, the game is one of the best investment-per-hour-of-enjoyment I own. But when I read through your comments on my comments, I see you are assuming a lot. That I assume the end-product will be ♥♥♥♥. That I assume they will ♥♥♥♥ up. No. That's a wrong assumption from your side (point 1, 4, 5, 6, 8, etc.). I do not make such assumptions. I'm just wondering why those things are the way they are. Yeah, yeah. Alpha. I know. Hopefully they get fixed.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I get mixed feelings here because in the reputation comments you wrote: "Personal attacks are a no-no."

So let me clarify something. Please don't take it personally that i don't want to read what you are saying. I know that i can just skip it all, but a filter would be helpful.

 

So, i went back and read your feedback because i skipped it the first time.

 

 

 

 

 

And i must say, i'm every bit as disappointed as i expected to be. Then i read Roland's "When Madmole Makes Chocolate Chip Cookies For Lunch..." and it's so on point, it makes me sad.

I just don't get it. You know that the game is taken to pieces and lots of it is not working and you make smirky comments about obvious things.

 

Like AI and ragdoll are obviously not working properly and you ask if it's intended? WTF???

Or like silencers are pointless if the stealth does not work... You really think that TFP can't understand that?

Every comment seems like you presume it's a finished feature: walking speed, jeep damage, health kit - still work in progress.

 

At least you overall attitude is pretty clear with the "meh"-s and "I'm afraid I can't rate the video more than a 5 or 6 out of 10 man".

 

- i literally want to ask you, do you think they are stupid? Why comment on something like that?

 

 

Sarcasm??

Based on previous performance i trust TFP to make AI better for a17.

And based on your posts i believe there is no reason i would want to read them in the future. Nothing personal, i just feel i don't get my time's worth.

 

Sure, if you don't want to read what I write, you don't have to..

[Survager]

Sorry. My oversight. I’ll update it when I’m not on mobile. The crouched creeping walk is the same. The regular movement is faster than it used to be and the run is faster but depletes stamina faster as well. It’s a change for sure so I’ll list it in the changes.

 

Joel said about run is default, walking and sprint work with special key, or not? If it not, may be it possible to do? Slow walking may be need us on some time.