a21.1 b6 cloth cost increase

[pApA^LeGBa]

5 hours ago, 8_Hussars said:

Are you confusing GNS with Izprebuilt?

GNS provides the best story based 7d2d content (with eko being a close second) while Izprebuilt is the min/max king.

 

Yeah, good story telling and great editing. But still min/maxing like no tomorrow rushing trough 5 quests in one day. No fun to watch, you can see he isn´t playing like he wants to survive in a postapocalyptic world but to meet a goal as soon as possible. Kinda ruins the storytelling. He is rushing trough every series so the viewer count doesn´t fall too low before the end. Gotta please the short attenion span of the viewers if you do YT for a living. And that´s why i generally don´t watch a lot of YT anymore, everyone is basically a slave to the algorithm.

Edited August 22, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[meganoth]

Ok, I did the test: Made a new map with no zombies, perked myself fully in Machine Gunner and Rule1 Cardio and nothing else and lootet every general book container I could find, i.e. NewsDispensers, Mailboxes, Bookshelfs, Bookpiles, LootCrateBookStore and Bookcase. Did not bother to count how many containers I looted, and threw away any of the schematics and recipes, just kept paper and the magazines.

 

After 1 day I had 28 Tactical Warface and 56 other magazines in sum.

 

With 200% bonus per perk point aka 1000% bonus fully perked binf_shinanas formula predicted that 33% of all magazines would be Tactical Warface. Actual result: 28/(56+28)= 0.333333 aka 33%. Perfect fit.

 

After another day I had 56 Tactical Warfare and 113 of everything else. 56/(56+113)= 0.33136 aka 33%. Again perfect fit.

 

So the XML is right, it is a 200% bonus per perk point (in other words each perk points puts 2 more balls to the original one ball in the pool)

 

The ball analogy is an excellent way to show what that means. One point in such a perk means that you find 3 magazines of this type for each of all the other magazines. Two points means you will find 5 magazines of this type for each of all the other magazines.

 

Consequently with 2 perk points you will reach 100 with that magazine while all other unperked magazines are still at 20 (excluding any effects of specialized loot containers or buying mags)

 

And that can't be right. I will make a bug report.

 

[BFT2020]

49 minutes ago, meganoth said:

And that can't be right. I will make a bug report.

 

Is that a bug report or a balance issue?  

[meganoth]

Just now, BFT2020 said:

 

Is that a bug report or a balance issue?  

 

Well, I made a bug report now even though I have my doubts it will stay there. It is surely possible they simply changed their design intentions for it. If not then I think there is a chance the programmer just forgot a "." in the XML, i.e. he wanted to write ".2" but wrote "2". Though they should have noticed it as well if that is the case.

 

My hope is that at a minimum we might find out what their intentions are now with the perk boost. As it is now it is not a safety measure anymore but it practically governs what magazines you get. You could as well just make the chance to find other magazines than the ones you perked into drop to zero and it wouldn't make much of a difference.

 

[RipClaw]

6 hours ago, meganoth said:

My hope is that at a minimum we might find out what their intentions are now with the perk boost. As it is now it is not a safety measure anymore but it practically governs what magazines you get. You could as well just make the chance to find other magazines than the ones you perked into drop to zero and it wouldn't make much of a difference.

It seems to be intended to work like this

 

 

[Krougal]

5 hours ago, RipClaw said:

It seems to be intended to work like this

 

 

 

Well, I mean there is some sense to it. Much as I hate to be restricted to 1 or a few weapons, we already kinda are by the perks (because face it, especially on higher difficulty a non-perked weapon isn't really viable). I get around this to some degree by having my headshot multiplier cranked way the @%$# up, so I can still 1 shot zeds with an unperked 9.

 

Anywho, as much as I would like to be able to craft some other weapons, it is far more important to me to be able to craft my chosen weapon so I'll take the system as it is I think. At some point I still wind up with the guns I like in QL6 from quest rewards/loot, but at least my primary is pretty much guaranteed.

 

Now I didn't realize the thing with the lockpicking, but then I am a fan of lockpicking in general anyway. With the new information I think I would take it even earlier.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Krougal (see edit history)

[meganoth]

39 minutes ago, Krougal said:

 

Well, I mean there is some sense to it. Much as I hate to be restricted to 1 or a few weapons, we already kinda are by the perks (because face it, especially on higher difficulty a non-perked weapon isn't really viable). I get around this to some degree by having my headshot multiplier cranked way the @%$# up, so I can still 1 shot zeds with an unperked 9.

 

Anywho, as much as I would like to be able to craft some other weapons, it is far more important to me to be able to craft my chosen weapon so I'll take the system as it is I think. At some point I still wind up with the guns I like in QL6 from quest rewards/loot, but at least my primary is pretty much guaranteed.

 

Now I didn't realize the thing with the lockpicking, but then I am a fan of lockpicking in general anyway. With the new information I think I would take it even earlier.

 

Weapons are not necessarily the problem. But a single player NEEDS to put points into the workstations and vehicle perks, otherwise his only source for workstations and vehicles will be the trader. And someone diversifying will hamper his own advancement.

 

How logical does it sound that if you are agi player and pistols your main weapon and you put a perk point into bows and farming besides pistol you are actually greatly slowing down your progress with pistols?

 

Sure, veteran players who get told on the forum or players who let themselves get spoiled by well-informed youtubers will get to know those strange rules. Anyone else will just wonder and not understand why he sits there on day 21 without a workstation and it is not at all easy to find out these rules by himself.

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Kalen]

48 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Weapons are not necessarily the problem. But a single player NEEDS to put points into the workstations and vehicle perks, otherwise his only source for workstations and vehicles will be the trader. And someone diversifying will hamper his own advancement.

 

How logical does it sound that if you are agi player and pistols your main weapon and you put a perk point into bows and farming besides pistol you are actually greatly slowing down your progress with pistols?

 

Sure, veteran players who get told on the forum or players who let themselves get spoiled by well-informed youtubers will get to know those strange rules. Anyone else will just wonder and not understand why he sits there on day 21 without a workstation and it is not at all easy to find out these rules by himself.

 

 

Great point.... as someone that mainly plays single player, I've encountered this issue often enough to be thoroughly frustrated by it.

 

I think a better solution would be to have perks grant a chance of a bonus magazine in the appropriate category rather than alter the probability of what magazines you find.

 

So if there are 10 possible magazines in a bookshelf, you have a 10% chance of any of them appearing.   But if you're perked into pistols, for example, you have a 20% or whatever, chance of finding a pistol magazine on top of whatever was there.

 

[warmer]

It does seem a bit high, but think of what it is offsetting two level two pocket mods is the equivalent of spending 1 point in pack mule. That's a big advantage over spending that point in carrying capacity.

 

While the recipe is exaggerated in amount. I feel the weight of it relative to spending a level up point is justified. Otherwise no one would choose pack mule and that would become essentially useless.

 

I guess I am a masochist, because I enjoy the encumbrance system and the choices it forces you to make.

[Krougal]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

Weapons are not necessarily the problem. But a single player NEEDS to put points into the workstations and vehicle perks, otherwise his only source for workstations and vehicles will be the trader. And someone diversifying will hamper his own advancement.

 

How logical does it sound that if you are agi player and pistols your main weapon and you put a perk point into bows and farming besides pistol you are actually greatly slowing down your progress with pistols?

 

Sure, veteran players who get told on the forum or players who let themselves get spoiled by well-informed youtubers will get to know those strange rules. Anyone else will just wonder and not understand why he sits there on day 21 without a workstation and it is not at all easy to find out these rules by himself.

 

Oh, yeah...that is a problem.

 

40 minutes ago, warmer said:

It does seem a bit high, but think of what it is offsetting two level two pocket mods is the equivalent of spending 1 point in pack mule. That's a big advantage over spending that point in carrying capacity.

 

While the recipe is exaggerated in amount. I feel the weight of it relative to spending a level up point is justified. Otherwise no one would choose pack mule and that would become essentially useless.

 

I guess I am a masochist, because I enjoy the encumbrance system and the choices it forces you to make.

I wind up with the 3 clothing and only 2 in my armor, because other armor mods are more important to me. So lately, I do take 2 points of pack mule, but that is late game when I can spend points on whatever rounds out my build. Long story short, it isn't the end of the world if you're a little encumbered. especially once you get a motorized vehicle, and you're right, it does force you to make meaningful choices. I even stopped using any expanded inventory mods recently, which forces me to leave stuff behind or make a lot of trips to the car in a T5, but really by then you shouldn't be taking every last thing that you already have 5000 of at home anyway. 

[binf_shinana]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Weapons are not necessarily the problem. But a single player NEEDS to put points into the workstations and vehicle perks, otherwise his only source for workstations and vehicles will be the trader. And someone diversifying will hamper his own advancement.

 

How logical does it sound that if you are agi player and pistols your main weapon and you put a perk point into bows and farming besides pistol you are actually greatly slowing down your progress with pistols?

 

Sure, veteran players who get told on the forum or players who let themselves get spoiled by well-informed youtubers will get to know those strange rules. Anyone else will just wonder and not understand why he sits there on day 21 without a workstation and it is not at all easy to find out these rules by himself.

 

私が常に他のプレイヤーに伝えようと努力しつづけている雑誌システムの仕様について、ここで解説の手助けをしていただけたことに感謝します。
現在の雑誌システムにはつまり、ゲーム内の情報から効率的なプレイ方法がまったく解読できない問題があります。
反面、理解してしまうとスキルを自由に取得できず、それはそれで不満が募ることになります。
(Google Translation)

Thanks for your help here explaining the specifics of the magazine system, which I'm always trying to communicate to other players.
The problem with the current magazine system is that you can't decipher how to play efficiently from in-game information.
On the other hand, if you understand it, you will not be able to freely acquire skills, which will lead to dissatisfaction.

[zztong]

I'm not really sure what to think. I spend points to increase my ability with clubs, my mobility with armor, or address stamina consumption with both. I'm not really looking to craft weapons or armor. I spend points to craft food, farms, and vehicles. Beyond crafting tier 1 pipe pistols and padded armor, I'm entirely cool with looting or buying weapons and armor. So I'd rather not increase the chances of getting a magazine for armor or weapons.

 

I don't mind the magazine system, but my own point spending is kind of working against my goals. What I want to craft isn't necessarily related to the skills I take.

[nostalginator]

Quote

Game design and realism are two different things.

Evidently.

That said, the game isn't meant to be a complete reality simulator.  Its baseline level of realism is supposed to be just realistic enough for you to immerse yourself in it.  The fact that we don't poop doesn't bother me.  The fact that a dew collector's model indicates it can hold a lot more water than it does but also can't collect rain, or at least speed up when it's foggy out?  That bothers me.  That bothers me A LOT.  But if I start going into all the things that bother me with this Alpha, we're going to be here a while.

[Banginurz]

On 8/14/2023 at 6:51 PM, Vaeliorin said:

  I spent an ingame day (well, more like 3/4 of a day) mining since the trader didn't have any quests I was interested in, and I came back with 300k iron and 200k stone. 

Not to de-rail this thread, but how are you getting those numbers in one day?  Teach me, oh wise one! I couldn't mine 300k  of anything in one day.  I'm not maxed in strength, but I'm at 4/5 on both mining stats, using rockbuster candy, and have tier 5 gear.  I honestly would love some advice!

[zombiehunter]

45 minutes ago, Banginurz said:

Not to de-rail this thread, but how are you getting those numbers in one day?  Teach me, oh wise one! I couldn't mine 300k  of anything in one day.  I'm not maxed in strength, but I'm at 4/5 on both mining stats, using rockbuster candy, and have tier 5 gear.  I honestly would love some advice!

Yeah, that's 50 stacks of iron and 33.33 stacks of stone.  I don't know that one can realistically do that in one game day.  I've mined a full game day before and came away with about half of that, even with mining perks maxed, using the buffs, with Q5 or Q6 gear.  I'd like to know the secret too!

[warmer]

You also get WAY more cloth when scrapping clothing items. I have over 1000 cloth sitting unused on day 7 playing solo. Cloth is not in short supply

16 minutes ago, zombiehunter said:

Yeah, that's 50 stacks of iron and 33.33 stacks of stone.  I don't know that one can realistically do that in one game day.  I've mined a full game day before and came away with about half of that, even with mining perks maxed, using the buffs, with Q5 or Q6 gear.  I'd like to know the secret too!

That has got to be loot abundance modded and maxed out mining/books. That's also like 5 veins of ore minimum for the iron.

[Vaeliorin]

1 hour ago, Banginurz said:

Not to de-rail this thread, but how are you getting those numbers in one day?  Teach me, oh wise one! I couldn't mine 300k  of anything in one day.  I'm not maxed in strength, but I'm at 4/5 on both mining stats, using rockbuster candy, and have tier 5 gear.  I honestly would love some advice!

Mostly, I play on 2 hour days.  But I also had maxed miner 69er/motherlode and a Q6 steel pickaxe.  One shot stone, 2 shot iron.

24 minutes ago, warmer said:

That has got to be loot abundance modded and maxed out mining/books. That's also like 5 veins of ore minimum for the iron.

Not loot abundance modded (though I have modded stack sizes) and only a single mine (though it might have had 2 or 3 nodes within it, I don't recall exactly.  I mine by going out 5 blocks in every direction from a surface node (if multiple surface nodes fit in that box, then 5 from each node) and then mining a rectangle all the way down to bedrock.

 

I'm still always short on stone (and clay in A21 for some reason.)

[Banginurz]

Thanks for the reply.  2 hour days will do it lol!  I feel your pain on the clay.  Never enough.  Thanks again!

[Lasher]

On 8/7/2023 at 1:18 PM, RipClaw said:

I wonder what the goal of this change is.

It makes the game more "Challenging"

Unlike, y'know - actual content.

[nostalginator]

On 8/30/2023 at 11:14 AM, warmer said:

You also get WAY more cloth when scrapping clothing items. I have over 1000 cloth sitting unused on day 7 playing solo. Cloth is not in short supply

That has got to be loot abundance modded and maxed out mining/books. That's also like 5 veins of ore minimum for the iron.

1000 cloth = 100 duct tape = 50 frag rockets, instead of 500.  I could do 500 rockets much more easily back then than I can now, even allowing for the changes to water (i.e., glue production).  500 frag rockets deployed only on blood moons could last a whole seed, depending.

Edited September 20, 2023 by nostalginator (see edit history)

[NewGuy]

Seriously? When did it go from 3 cloth fragments to 50, who lost their job for changing it so drastically, and who lost their job because they couldn't figure out how to change it back to a reasonable number?

[Gamida]

I would like to formally apply to TFP for one of those open jobs of changing the amount of cloth needed to make a bandana.

 

Could you send me the info such as payrate, hours, medical benefits, etc.

 

Thank you.

[rateds2k]

Maybe the cloth is just a tiny piece that was salvageable. Out of the whole bed you could only get 25 1x1" pieces that were usable. It does say fragment.  Just like with the meat issue. Maybe it is ounces.

[Riamus]

I think it was done because everyone had lots of stacks of cloth they had no use for.  Of course, they increased the scrap amount of stuff to compensate, so as long as you are scrapping clothes and beds and curtains, you will still have plenty.

[Maharin]

It's inflation.  The new cloth fragments resemble confetti.