Lasher

It makes the game more "Challenging" Unlike, y'know - actual content.

Hmmmm... don't think I caught that one. Good job by the sound of it!

Working as intended. All your bases will be nerfed. If you keep defeating our zombies will will make them psychic and made of asbestos. Next patch - "Guns shoot backwards and hurt you - this is a balancing option to increase challenge"

Shhhhhhh... did you not know that this once again makes the game more "Challenging"? No honest. It does. No really...

No doubt to once again make the game more, ahem, "Challenging" Rather than just adding proper content just add another dopey way to get around player bases. Working as intended - nothing to see here...

Designed so you burn through loads more repair kits. And hence more duct tape. Supposedly this makes the game more "Challenging" As opposed to just adding more content... Working as intended...

How? Bad bit of code - then don't test it. That's how. But it's stable... Honest...

I'd most certainly believe it...

I'm still at a complete loss as to why TFP never implemented a simple set of options to control things like hunger, thirst and the availabilty of things like food and water. Doesn't that just keep everybody happy? Want to play as TFP intended? - leave the sliders alone. Don't care about survival as much and are more in it for zombie slaying? - Drop the sliders so it's not a problem. Want to go hardcore survival-death? - Crank it up so you're like a man in the Sahara. Options would let everybody play however they felt - and yes, I know there's mods but surely a variable and a slider isn't that tough to implement?

I don't think that's quite fair BFT2020. Skaarphy was pretty reasonable about how he phrased his post - even to go as far as to say "Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. But that's my take on it, anyhow." at the end of it. I don't know myself but I certainly think he has a point asd perhaps a lot of other players might as well. You may well disagree - but then you shouldn't act like you speak for all players either. He also makes a very good point about how we don't really get any explanation for the reasons behind things. Do TFP have to explain their thougt process to anyone? No - of course not - but some communication would really help people understand why these sometimes seemingly random changes are made.

Feel free to replace ANY with MOST. Feel better now?

I think we'll just agree to disagree on that one as I really don't want to keep arguing the point. If you think that for a game of this scope it's ok to still be in EA 10 years on then fair enough. I've made my point often enough and if you're ok with it then that's fine.

Thank you for your response Roland - much appreciated. I may have my doubts but I certainly do not wish for anyone's failure. I've put thousands of hours into this game - I'd like it to be as good as it can be.

Thanks Roland - for yourr measured response - I do actually appreciate it. On the subject of "mess" I think you may well be right to a certain exctent - I do most certainly perceive a mess. Again, much as I know how a lot of folk hate this being brought up, but this game is still unfinished and in EA after 10 years - and after having conversations with several folk who work in the industry the opinon I have from them is that for a game of this scope that's certaily a sign that there's a problem. What the problem is, I don't know, but I do know that this game has such a huge amount of potential that to see it almost wasted is quite upsetting. You've mentioned testing, feedback and debate but I honeslty just don't really see evidence of very much of that going on at all - there seems to be an awful lot of "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" - now whether that's true or not I don't know but it chaotic. So yes, I do certainly see a mess, and I think it looks that way to others as well in different areas depending on your experience and playstyle. It would be nice if we could somehow have options to fix it - but I'm just gradually thinking that TFP don't care that much. Standing by everything I said. There are some serious problems at TFP - and if you don't like it just keep taking your copium. Let's have a look at some of your posts shalll we... Oh no - looks like it was so toxic it got moderated. Tell you what YourMirror - I'm going to stick you on ignore and I'd VERY much appreciate it if you'd return the favour. Besides- I don't like punching down.

Calling it exaclty as I see it. And where exaclty did I say that I was speaking for "the community"? Once again YourMirror - learn to read before responding - I'm saying that everybody should be aloowed to have their opinion - whether they agree with TFP or not. And you talking about the way I post? The only person who mentioned the word "aholes" is you - which is pretty typical of your posting response to anyone who disagrees with you. Rich. Pot - Kettle much?

As in they'd know what a proper dev process looks like - yes.

Firstly - go and ask ANY serious game or software dev if a game of this scope should still be in EA after 10 years. I persoanlly know 2 devs that have worked on AAA titles and another business app dev. They all say exaclty the same thing - but go take your pick. As for your "scientific" method - the first part is right - try out changes and see if there's something to change or critizise. Won't you DON'T then do is just stick to that method just to be bloody minded, defend all critizism of it and then try and repair it with gaffer tape and glue. Which is what happens with TFP. About as un-scientific as you can get. And as for testing? Don't make me laugh... Try reading what I wrote again Rince - because I don't think you did. I did't say that my opinion was the absolute truth far from it - it's my opinon. What I was saying is that there seems to be little point posting on these forums if you disagree with TFP. Anyone that does tends to be shot down by the old guard with exaclty the same old tired, flabby excuses or just told to shut up and deal with it. THAT'S what i really object to. These forums should be a place for GENUINE discussion about this game - and with a better balanced dev they might even take a bit of the crit on board once in a while. But oh no, we can't disagree with anything our lord and masters do... Still... there's always mods...

I'm afraid, Renathras, that many of us that disagree with the changes that TFP make and the way they've been developing the game are sadly starting to realise that there's not much value in raising valid points in these forums. You'll come up against pretty much the same stock responses over and over and seeing as this often comes from folk in a position of power there's very little you can do about it. For those of us that don't like it we're left with mods - it's the only real option to undo some of the mess - unfortunately that's just the way it is - believe me - I've tried.

Well ofc you'd label my position "extreme" - that's again the label for any dissent. As for why I do "EA" - I do it plenty - in games that respect the term - so let's not roll out that old chestnut of an excuse eh? Once again - there was nothing "Tantrum" about it - my position is that there's some serious problems with the way TFP develop - I'm unaware of the cause but if you speak to any serious games or software dev and show them this project they'll tell you that after 10 years it's a car crash. The last parts of your post were interesting - it was bordering on criticism - which is exaclty what TFP are in dire need of.

Right. Show me either.

Well actually I take it back - it got moderated. Fair play.

I'm sorry - "name calling and toxicity"? There was neither of either. I, like a lot of folk feel that we should express our concerns about the changes that TFP keep making that seem to be neithr thought through or tested. I personally am also sick to death of members of this forum - usually freinds of the developers simply defending every single action they take with excuses. My response was my truthful opionon, and being on the QA team I'm harldy surprised that you didn't like it. meganoth - I'm very sorry mate but you point blank defend and agree with every single action that the TFP make no matter what it is. Just finding an excuse and a rationalisation for every move they make doesn't really help and in the end will just encourage the delusion that they're always right. They're not infalliable and I don't think that encouraging the idea that they are helps.

And this post doesn't get moderated? Very entertaining.

Sorry meganoth but I really don't think that's the point. I don't think the issue here is with screamers or with heat generation. I think the issue that people have with this is that it's yet another sledgehammer nerf bat dumb fix. TFP make introduce dew collectors for water. Players make multiple dew collectors to solve the water problem. TFP increase heat on collector to "solve" the problem. Which it doesn't. It's like the flame traps they introduced. TFP make flame hazards. Players use flame hazards to kill zombies. TFP nerf flame damage to zombies (what are they - made of asbestos now?) As I've posted time and time again there just seems to be no thought put into this whatsoever. It's idiotic - so I'm not surprised that people find fault with it. Maybe, just maybe they might do something about it if people stop defending their stupid decesions. But I doubt it.

I can just imagine the meeting at TFP... "Everyone's getting everywhere too fast!" "They're not looking at our lovely new pois!" "They'll burn through the content too fast!" "Wait..." "What?" "I know.... lets make them all SLOOOOWER!" "Genius!!" <cue cheering>