20.4 new mod folder location

[Data]

Now compile all this talk about mlink and %appdata% etc and then try to find a way to tell or explain to a player that has NO programming or any “folder” tech knowledge that just wants to play the game!!

 

Why over complicate something that has worked for now?

 

Just KEEP the mods folder in the SAME directory as the core game folder

 

This game has been presented as “easy to mod”

 

How is that going to be productive if by closing or minimizing the options of doing that?

 

its like cutting a leg off to upgrade the other so it can run faster...oh wait

Edited April 15, 2022 by Data (see edit history)

[SylenThunder]

SUCCESS!!

 

Ok so I tested it, and it worked perfectly. Unfortunately it is again something that some people will not be able to accomplish. (Khaine isn't kidding about people incapable of simply copying files out of a zip into the mod folder. I spent a few hours the other day with someone on the exact same thing.)

 

Step 1 - Copy/rename serverconfig.xml. For this example I am using "a20serverconfig.xml". You want the file different so it isn't reset with an update.

Step 2 - Edit the file to replace the following section starting at line 40.

	<!-- Folder and file locations -->
	<property name="AdminFileName"					value="serveradmin.xml"/>	<!-- Server admin file name. Path relative to the SaveGameFolder -->
	<!-- <property name="UserDataFolder"				value="absolute path" /> -->	<!-- Use this to override where the server stores all generated data, including RWG generated worlds. Do not forget to uncomment the entry! -->
	<!-- <property name="SaveGameFolder"				value="absolute path" /> -->	<!-- Use this to only override the save game path. Do not forget to uncomment the entry! -->

Your new section will look something like this...

	<!-- Folder and file locations -->
	<property name="AdminFileName"					value="serveradmin.xml"/>	<!-- Server admin file name. Path relative to the SaveGameFolder -->
	<property name="UserDataFolder"				value="D:\SaveGames\a20" /> -->	<!-- Use this to override where the server stores all generated data, including RWG generated worlds. Do not forget to uncomment the entry! -->
	<property name="SaveGameFolder"				value="D:\SaveGames\a20\Saves" /> -->	<!-- Use this to only override the save game path. Do not forget to uncomment the entry! -->

 

Step 3 - Create the folder D:\SaveGames\a20\Mods

Step 4 - Go to your Steam Library, Right-click on 7 Days, and choose Properties.

Step 5 - Add the following to your launch options. -configfile=a20serverconfig.xml (Again, your file will vary on what you name it. This is the example.)

Step 6 - Close the window, and start the game.

 

Now I can just use the config file in each separate folder, and tell the client where to go for all the data. No symlinks required. 

[Matt115]

9 minutes ago, Data said:

 

its like cutting a leg off to upgrade the other so it can run faster...oh wait

 well if you change a leg with wheel and engine....  we have to test that @Morloc could assist in this... operation? we are going cut his legs and replace them with wheel with engine... it will be so fun! for us ofc

1 minute ago, SylenThunder said:

SUCCESS!!

 

Ok so I tested it, and it worked perfectly. Unfortunately it is again something that some people will not be able to accomplish. (Khaine isn't kidding about people incapable of simply copying files out of a zip into the mod folder. I spent a few hours the other day with someone on the exact same thing.)

 

Step 1 - Copy/rename serverconfig.xml. For this example I am using "a20serverconfig.xml". You want the file different so it isn't reset with an update.

Step 2 - Edit the file to replace the following section starting at line 40.

	<!-- Folder and file locations -->
	<property name="AdminFileName"					value="serveradmin.xml"/>	<!-- Server admin file name. Path relative to the SaveGameFolder -->
	<!-- <property name="UserDataFolder"				value="absolute path" /> -->	<!-- Use this to override where the server stores all generated data, including RWG generated worlds. Do not forget to uncomment the entry! -->
	<!-- <property name="SaveGameFolder"				value="absolute path" /> -->	<!-- Use this to only override the save game path. Do not forget to uncomment the entry! -->

Your new section will look something like this...

	<!-- Folder and file locations -->
	<property name="AdminFileName"					value="serveradmin.xml"/>	<!-- Server admin file name. Path relative to the SaveGameFolder -->
	<property name="UserDataFolder"				value="D:\SaveGames\a20" /> -->	<!-- Use this to override where the server stores all generated data, including RWG generated worlds. Do not forget to uncomment the entry! -->
	<property name="SaveGameFolder"				value="D:\SaveGames\a20\Saves" /> -->	<!-- Use this to only override the save game path. Do not forget to uncomment the entry! -->

 

Step 3 - Create the folder D:\SaveGames\a20\Mods

Step 4 - Go to your Steam Library, Right-click on 7 Days, and choose Properties.

Step 5 - Add the following to your launch options. -configfile=a20serverconfig.xml (Again, your file will vary on what you name it. This is the example.)

Step 6 - Close the window, and start the game.

 

Now I can just use the config file in each separate folder, and tell the client where to go for all the data. No symlinks required. 

Ok and it would work if i would play with someone? I mean -  have second person to  change things diffrent?

[zztong]

16 minutes ago, Data said:

Now compile all this talk about mlink and %appdata% etc and then try to find a way to tell or explain to a player that has NO programming or any “folder” tech knowledge that just wants to play the game!!

 

I'm probably being dense. Or maybe y'all are misunderstanding me. I wouldn't expect regular folks to do that. I'd expect some kind of installer and/or mod manager to do it. Those who distribute overhaul mods could standardize on a tool that changes the Mods folder under %APPDATA% to be a symbolic link to the overhaul mod dejour.

 

I'll duck out at this point for fear of flogging a horse. Regards and respect to all.

[SylenThunder]

19 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Ok and it would work if i would play with someone? I mean -  have second person to  change things diffrent?

No, their mods will work with however they have them installed.

[JCrook1028]

1 hour ago, SylenThunder said:

We still need to solve the issue of how to run multiple versions of the game with different mod sets. 

Did TFP really not even consider that when making this change?

[SylenThunder]

Just now, JCrook1028 said:

Did TFP really not even consider that when making this change?

No idea, but at least I was able to find a solution.

[JCrook1028]

7 minutes ago, SylenThunder said:

No idea, but at least I was able to find a solution.

Well yea., sort of anyway. People have a hard enough time as it is, good luck with them following that new process.

[SylenThunder]

19 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

Well yea., sort of anyway. People have a hard enough time as it is, good luck with them following that new process.

It was commonly used from Alpha 16 forward to run multiple versions without corrupting the configs, so it's not a real new concept. I'm just glad that it worked to move the location of the mod folder. 

 

Since I've been running clients like this since a13 or a14 it's second nature for me. I've usually got at least three different Alpha versions running, plus additional overhauls.

 

Pretty sure the author for the ModLauncher will have a similar solution to integrate into their tool for people who are less technically inclined.

[Evil_Geoff]

After pondering about this, I'm thinking of a possible solution (that will probably get me kick-banned for heresy 🤣)  And that would be doing something like Vortex does.  All the mods go in one location, and then the users set up different profiles for which mods they want used for different games.  You can set up a "Darkness Falls" profile, a "WotW" profile a "CompoPack" profile, and Vortex calls the mods associated with each profile.  I haven't actively used Vortex for 7DtD since I was introduced to Mod Launcher, but I used it extensively back in the day when I was playing hella modded Oldrim and FO3, FNV, FO4.  May not be elegant, but it worked for me.

Edit to add:  And before that I was using Nexus Mod Manger for Morrowind, Oblivion, etc.

1 hour ago, SylenThunder said:

Pretty sure the author for the ModLauncher will have a similar solution to integrate into their tool for people who are less technically inclined.

*In an evil galactic overlord voice...*
"Who can save you now?"

*dramatic music starts as the crowd shouts...*
SPHEREII ‼️‼️‼️

Edited April 15, 2022 by Evil_Geoff (see edit history)

[KhaineGB]

6 hours ago, SylenThunder said:

SUCCESS!!

 

Ok so I tested it, and it worked perfectly. Unfortunately it is again something that some people will not be able to accomplish. (Khaine isn't kidding about people incapable of simply copying files out of a zip into the mod folder. I spent a few hours the other day with someone on the exact same thing.)

 

Step 1 - Copy/rename serverconfig.xml. For this example I am using "a20serverconfig.xml". You want the file different so it isn't reset with an update.

Step 2 - Edit the file to replace the following section starting at line 40.

	<!-- Folder and file locations -->
	<property name="AdminFileName"					value="serveradmin.xml"/>	<!-- Server admin file name. Path relative to the SaveGameFolder -->
	<!-- <property name="UserDataFolder"				value="absolute path" /> -->	<!-- Use this to override where the server stores all generated data, including RWG generated worlds. Do not forget to uncomment the entry! -->
	<!-- <property name="SaveGameFolder"				value="absolute path" /> -->	<!-- Use this to only override the save game path. Do not forget to uncomment the entry! -->

Your new section will look something like this...

	<!-- Folder and file locations -->
	<property name="AdminFileName"					value="serveradmin.xml"/>	<!-- Server admin file name. Path relative to the SaveGameFolder -->
	<property name="UserDataFolder"				value="D:\SaveGames\a20" /> -->	<!-- Use this to override where the server stores all generated data, including RWG generated worlds. Do not forget to uncomment the entry! -->
	<property name="SaveGameFolder"				value="D:\SaveGames\a20\Saves" /> -->	<!-- Use this to only override the save game path. Do not forget to uncomment the entry! -->

 

Step 3 - Create the folder D:\SaveGames\a20\Mods

Step 4 - Go to your Steam Library, Right-click on 7 Days, and choose Properties.

Step 5 - Add the following to your launch options. -configfile=a20serverconfig.xml (Again, your file will vary on what you name it. This is the example.)

Step 6 - Close the window, and start the game.

 

Now I can just use the config file in each separate folder, and tell the client where to go for all the data. No symlinks required. 

Oh nice!

It's still a massive pain for the end user, but at least that means people can run multiple mods/modlets/vanilla

[Grolbu]

Much easier suggestion that would take, if I may make an uneducated guess, maybe a few seconds to implement.

 

Just change 

• Mods are now loaded from <UserDataFolder>/Mods (i.e. the folder that also stores saves, e.g. on Windows %APPDATA%/7DaysToDie/Mods) in addition to <game folder>/Mods. In a future build this will change to only load from that new location so no data is written/changed in the program folder at any time. 

to

• Mods are now loaded from <UserDataFolder>/Mods (i.e. the folder that also stores saves, e.g. on Windows %APPDATA%/7DaysToDie/Mods) in addition to <game folder>/Mods. In a future build this will change to only load from that new location so no data is written/changed in the program folder at any time. 

 

Insert my "me too" for the list of people saying "but what about my multiple incompatible installs" here.  I don't mind the game ALSO loading mods from somewhere new that allows it to be put into new marketplaces, but I do mind the current ease of using different sets of mods in different installs being nuked. It's bad enough that all the saves and maps live in one place so game names have to start with a tag saying which game they're part of.

[KhaineGB]

Found one small problem with that method. I'll experiment more later since i'm just waking up.

If you use @file:\mods to load a file (say to replace the main menu background), then it won't work from a non-standard location. Could be an issue for server owners who like to have splash screens and such.

[pApA^LeGBa]

14 hours ago, meganoth said:

I don't think it is a good idea to let the mod developer choose the dir. Bad for other platforms than windows, bad even for windows users when the mods dir suddenly appears at arbitrary places

 

 

 

PS: I just realized that even on Windows that %appdata% dir is per user, right?

So there is already a lowtech possibility to have installations with different mods, one per windows account. Or am I missing something?

 

 

 

Yeah sure, let´s make it even more complicated....

 

Moving this to appdata is opposite of making the game mod friendly. Wich is something TFP always claimed they wanted it to be. As Khaine and Sylen already pointed out, many people already struggle with the current method of simply unzipping and putting it into the mods folder. Now add problems with storage space on the C drive and finding appdata. Not mod friendly at all. Even looks like they want to reduce the amount of people playing mods.

Edited April 15, 2022 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[fred007]

So where are the developers. Don't they think it is necessary to talk to us? This appdata thing is so stupid, they should explain why they choose to use it. We paid their bills, the least they can do is talk to us.

[Sal]

4 minutes ago, fred007 said:

So where are the developers. Don't they think it is necessary to talk to us? This appdata thing is so stupid, they should explain why they choose to use it. We paid their bills, the least they can do is talk to us.

Relax. This thread already got their attention (see page 1), and I'm sure their discussing it amongst themselves and will let everyone know what they came up with in the end.  

 

They don't have tell us every time they take a @%$# just because we bought the game.

[meganoth]

On 4/15/2022 at 11:05 AM, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

Yeah sure, let´s make it even more complicated....

 

Maybe ask Microsoft what they are doing if creating a second account on a PC is too complicated. I wasn't aware it is, but you as self-appointed lawyer of the noobs must surely know 😉. Is it?

 

Remember we are with a game that isn't finished right now. The full game will have steamworks support and any "I can turn on and off the computer and thats it" guy will (have to) use steamworks for playing mods. I would not lose any sleep if such a person would not be able to run this game with different mods installed at the same time. Nice to have, not basic neccessity.

 

Even now there is the modlauncher. If you help someone not capable of moving files from a zipfile and don't advocate to use that then maybe you are not really helping that person.

 

 

On 4/15/2022 at 11:05 AM, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

Moving this to appdata is opposite of making the game mod friendly. Wich is something TFP always claimed they wanted it to be. As Khaine and Sylen already pointed out, many people already struggle with the current method of simply unzipping and putting it into the mods folder. Now add problems with storage space on the C drive and finding appdata. Not mod friendly at all. Even looks like they want to reduce the amount of people playing mods.

 

There can be lots of reason they did it and we don't know them. As a coder this change looks right to me. In most operating systems installed programs and any volatile data is separated, this has some advantages for security, backup and general administration of a PC. Now mods are definitely not just data, but they are rather volatile. It is not a clear cut case but it makes some sense to separate mods from the game in some way.

When a friend of mine, who is a software developer, heard of this change he immediately approved of it as well. But this was just our gut reaction, doesn't mean we are ultimately right.

 

TFP as well as their internal testers do not have the same view, not the same problems in their daily work on the game as a (noob) player. It isn't surprising that they may overlook problems with 1) mods, 2) noob players, 3) misconfigured PCs. And yes, nowadays a C drive without space left for a few G could be considered at least slightly misconfigured.

 

[EDIT: paragraph removed that was too confrontational]

 

PS: "noob" isn't meant as a derogatory term. I mean to say a player not proficient with PC handling. "novice" wouldn't work, as that usually means novice to the game.

Edited April 17, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

Answering to that kind of post just isn´t worth my time. 

 

Just gonna add to my original post that they should have waited with such changes until they add support for workshop.

[canadianbluebeer]

ahh, alrighty then, if we can change it in the config files, then no problems whatsoever.

 

(and yes, I'll be putting the savegames on a separate drive)

 

 

 

[KhaineGB]

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Maybe ask Microsoft what they are doing if creating a second account on a PC is too complicated. I wasn't aware it is, but you as self-appointed lawyer of the noobs must surely know 😉. Is it?

 

Remember we are with a game that isn't finished right now. The full game will have steamworks support and any "I can turn on and off the computer and thats it" guy will (have to) use steamworks for playing mods. I would not lose any sleep if such a person would not be able to run this game with different mods installed at the same time. Nice to have, not basic neccessity.

 

Even now there is the modlauncher. If you help someone not capable of moving files from a zipfile and don't advocate to use that then maybe you are not really helping that person.

 

 

 

There can be lots of reason they did it and we don't know them. As a coder this change looks right to me. In most operating systems installed programs and any volatile data is separated, this has some advantages for security, backup and general administration of a PC. Now mods are definitely not just data, but they are rather volatile. It is not a clear cut case but it makes some sense to separate mods from the game in some way.

When a friend of mine, who is a software developer, heard of this change he immediately approved of it as well. But this was just our gut reaction, doesn't mean we are ultimately right.

 

TFP as well as their internal testers do not have the same view, not the same problems in their daily work on the game as a (noob) player. It isn't surprising that they may overlook problems with 1) mods, 2) noob players, 3) misconfigured PCs. And yes, nowadays a C drive without space left for a few G could be considered at least slightly misconfigured.

 

So going for outrage and accusations is again the way of the warrior here on the forum. All hail the new modfolder#gate and raise the pitchforks for a salute. 😁

 

PS: "noob" isn't meant as a derogatory term. I mean to say a player not proficient with PC handling. "novice" wouldn't work, as that usually means novice to the game.

Counterpoint.

Most games have their mods in the game directory, or at least the same DRIVE as the game.

I think only minecraft stores mods in %AppData% (but then it also stores the game there as well, for some reason)

[reck13ss]

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

Maybe ask Microsoft what they are doing if creating a second account on a PC is too complicated. I wasn't aware it is, but you as self-appointed lawyer of the noobs must surely know

Don't compare creating different account (which is made is another USER is using Windows, not  a different set of settings) to different setting of mods. This thing, that TFP are going to do - it'll cripple modding FOR USERS in a way. And I know it's pain to admit, but mods are what's keeping this game so well, not vanilla version

 

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

Now mods are definitely not just data, but they are rather volatile.

Everything is a volatile, if you're careless enough. I don't see that moving mods folder to frikking SYSTEM DRIVE will add stability to the game. So this excuse is rather null for me (not a coder, yes, but user)

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

And yes, nowadays a C drive without space left for a few G could be considered at least slightly misconfigured.

Some months ago my C: disk was full, cause I forgot to untick "gather data" on AMD drivers. The telemetry quickly took several GBytes in my %appdata% folder - is it misconfiguration on my part? Or is it bad management from AMD - to put all eggs on poor C: drive? Please, TFP, be smart, don't make such a mistake.

 

If you're going to make Windows Store version for more cashgrab - at least keep old system for Steam version, or make it configurable by user. Because

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

TFP as well as their internal testers do not have the same view, not the same problems in their daily work on the game as a (noob) player.

 

[redneckraccoon]

5 hours ago, meganoth said:

Even now there is the modlauncher. If you help someone not capable of moving files from a zipfile and don't advocate to use that then maybe you are not really helping that person.

this sounds like you're assuming the mod launcher will always be there. from what i understand, that is made and supported by a user who has no obligation to keep it working if they choose to quit entirely.

[pApA^LeGBa]

I also find it kinda weird doing this in the middle of an alpha. Like let every modder adapt to the changes and then let´s add another quite importnant change. That´s nothing you overlook tbh. Could have done for A21 also.

[KhaineGB]

A20 still loads from the normal /Mods folder.

So my assumption is they added the new location so we can START advising users to move there.

[georgenemo666]

I'm agree that change of mods folder destination creates a lot of difficulties not only for moders but for simple players like me because some of the mods are weight a lot 2-3-4 Gigs and for people like me (i have installed 4 mods along with original game) if you are change location it would be very difficult to have all mods installed because I wouldn't have enough space to install and have all mods I like and play. and it's difficult to choose which mod to install which not! I even don't have my STEAM Games installation folder on C because of space so please consider that some people don't have opportunity and possibility to have everything on C disk where %appdata% located.