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20.4 new mod folder location


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4 minutes ago, Maharin said:

 

Not the save folder, the GeneratedWorlds folder.  :p

 

Yep i wrote this shorter - well still this could be problem if you want to makes change in world generator right?

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8 minutes ago, Maharin said:

 

Not the save folder, the GeneratedWorlds folder.  :p

 

Thing is, using Ravenhearst mod as an example, many mods have custom pois. can't have a generated world BEFORE the mod with custom pois is placed in, or those custom pois will never load/show up

Edited by redneckraccoon
forgot a couple words (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, JaxTeller718 said:

I do not often come by here to engage in discussion much anymore but this has brought me out of hiding. I am not 100 percent sure WHY we need this change other than maybe console compatibility but after years of being in the community and explaining over and over to players where things go I feel like this change may actually drive people AWAY from supporting and modding this game.

 

Bethesda tried its best to make changes to the modding community and both modders and players spoke out en masse, I would hate to see this result in the same for TFP.

 

My question is WHY. What does this accomplish. After adding modlet support more people than ever began creating amazing mods. The community grew from a handful of us to many. And now this seems to undo all of that. How will we support multiple mods? Multiple overhauls? How can we tell people they CAN play both Darkness Falls and Ravenhearst with a change like this without confusing everyone. What of modders? We run multiple folders of 7 days, vanilla, test copy, public copy. This just makes our passions increasingly more frustrating and difficult.

 

Say what you will about us beating drums over changes we didn't like in the past (action skills, gun parts etc) THIS change is actually poised to drive people away both new and old. Hopefully this entire plan be rethought because I have yet to see anyone on Discord, Twitter, here actually embrace this as a good idea.

cant there just be like a
Mods DF folder
Mods RH folder
Mods WOTW
Mods CP folder 
ETC
 and users swap em out as they go into their appdata.

I to have multiple folders to for the cp so hoping this an still be a possibility. 


 

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4 minutes ago, stallionsden said:

cant there just be like a
Mods DF folder
Mods RH folder
Mods WOTW
Mods CP folder 
ETC
 and users swap em out as they go into their appdata.

I to have multiple folders to for the cp so hoping this an still be a possibility. 


 

There could i assume if they have thought that far ahead but then again it brings me back to the original point. Why? What is the benefit of that over what we do now? Except create extra confusion.

 

Now if they DO do what you said and then have a UI element in game where when we start we can CHOOSE the mod to load then I will eat my words. But I doubt that is the plan at all. Will be happy to be proven wrong.

Edited by JaxTeller718 (see edit history)
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6 minutes ago, JaxTeller718 said:

There could i assume if they have thought that far ahead but then again it brings me back to the original point. Why? What is the benefit of that over what we do now? Except create extra confusion.

 

Now if they DO do what you said and then have a UI element in game where when we start we can CHOOSE the mod to load then I will eat my words. But I doubt that is the plan at all. Will be happy to be proven wrong.

There will be (probably if they will have time) workshop support on steam

So this can in style as you say after... dunno 2 - 3 years?

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17 minutes ago, redneckraccoon said:

Thing is, using Ravenhearst mod as an example, many mods have custom pois. can't have a generated world BEFORE the mod with custom pois is placed in, or those custom pois will never load/show up

 

True... there are just a whole lot of levels that the game can be modified.  I wouldn't want to have to "install" a UI mod on every world or save, for instance.  Custom POIs are used during map generation but also need to be available to a given map... so are they global or local?  I can see where people would have a different answer depending on what they are doing.  If you want to be able to generate a map with a specific set of POIs and not have that affect other worlds you've created (EDIT: or will create)...  Yeah, this can get ugly in a hurry no matter how TFP does this.

 

Edited by Maharin (see edit history)
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Are the overhaul-mods contained to the mods folder, or will people need to maintain a modified game-folder And the new appdata folder? Doesn't sound like a great thing in any case, but if you're going to need multiple copies of the game AND still modify files for each start; well, eww. Plenty of scripting ahead for some people, I suppose.

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9 minutes ago, JaxTeller718 said:

There could i assume if they have thought that far ahead but then again it brings me back to the original point. Why? What is the benefit of that over what we do now? Except create extra confusion.

 

Now if they DO do what you said and then have a UI element in game where when we start we can CHOOSE the mod to load then I will eat my words. But I doubt that is the plan at all. Will be happy to be proven wrong.

Oh for sure like everything new it can take some time to understand.

 

I am wondering how servers will work considering to my knowledge servers don't have an appdata.

 

But yeh don't get me wrong I am not arguing or anything. This will actually help the cp tbh but I cant just think of the cp either so simply stating it from another angle as well. 

 

But this discussion will help tfp to be better informed and maybe set a middle ground for everyone 

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7 minutes ago, Maharin said:

 

True... there are just a whole lot of levels that the game can be modified.  I wouldn't want to have to "install" a UI mod on every world or save, for instance.  Custom POIs are used during map generation but also need to be available to a given map... so are they global or local?  I can see where people would have a different answer depending on what they are doing.  If you want to be able to generate a map with a specific set of POIs and not have that affect other worlds you've created (EDIT: or will create)...  Yeah, this can get ugly in a hurry no matter how TFP does this.

 

And I think that brings us back to the original point of "it was not broken so why fix it". Seems this will create unnecessary problems for some users and modders. But what is the benefit?

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Just now, JaxTeller718 said:

And I think that brings us back to the original point of "it was not broken so why fix it". Seems this will create unnecessary problems for some users and modders. But what is the benefit?

Probably it's connected with workshop added in the future. or dunno DLC. but honestly... maybe 1% of playebase have few copy of this game... so this will not hurt a lot 

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16 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Probably it's connected with workshop added in the future. or dunno DLC. but honestly... maybe 1% of playebase have few copy of this game... so this will not hurt a lot 

Where are you pulling that 1% number from?  Wishful thinking? 

Just about everyone I know who plays 7DtD uses Mod Launcher, or manually creates multiple game folders, to play different overhauls and past alphas.  But I'm not going to extrapolate my personal observation to mean that 90% of players use multiple copies of the game.

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1 minute ago, Evil_Geoff said:

Where are you pulling that 1% number from?  Wishful thinking? 

Just about everyone I know who plays 7DtD uses Mod Launcher, or manually creates multiple game folders, to play different overhauls and past alphas.  But I'm not going to extrapolate my personal observation to mean that 90% of players use multiple copies of the game.

Most people don't mod their games - i think you can agree with me about that. So if i'm right about that this mean that only part of people who use mods have few copies.  I count people who have 7dtd no matter if they even play this 1 time.

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17 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Most people don't mod their games - i think you can agree with me about that. So if i'm right about that this mean that only part of people who use mods have few copies.  I count people who have 7dtd no matter if they even play this 1 time.

Again, personal observation of a few people does not extrapolate to the whole.  That's called "stereotyping".

So you are totally pulling your assertions out of thin air with no data to back it up.

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2 minutes ago, Evil_Geoff said:

Again, personal observation of a few people does not extrapolate to the whole.  That's called "stereotyping".

So you are totally pulling your assertions out of thin air with no data to back it up.

Well you don't have date to know that more drunk people made car crash with dead injuries that sober ones. Well  We know that only 10 - 20 % of people finish games ( you can check on the independed) . Why i writing about that? Because this true that most people play in game after released and big updates - you can check game statistic. I don't have exactly number how many people bought a 7dtd but we can say it is 13 mln. Some of them will play in 7dtd after 1,0  so we can say  that 19,302.1 is avarage number of players per month - so most of 7dtd owner ( owner not players) don't use mods right?  but let check only number of players - i think  most players don't use mods - maybe 15 - 25% of them use mods - i don't use word mod launcher just multiple copy of game. So we can say that halve of them use multiple copy of game ( well some of them can use laptops so problem with space is pretty common ( most of my friend's who use laptops to play have this problem)). So you can calculate that even less that 1% of 7dtd owners have multiple copy of this game on their pc

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The only reason I could see for doing this is if the game is coming to the xbox gamepass (and/or windows store). It would definitely be needed for mods and modding to work easier if that was the case. Otherwise I don't see the point, everything else from Epic to Steam Workshop would have worked fine the way it is.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, schwanz9000 said:

Everything is now saved in appdata. Logs, generated worlds, saves. If anything, these changes make it WAY easier to find stuff.


No it doesn't. Most users don't know %AppData% exists, because it's a hidden folder.

"easier" would be Documents, like you guys used to do.

Source:  Me doing tech support for Behaviour Interactive and having to tell users to go to %AppData%\Local to find their INI files to fully reset the game settings to fix bugs.

Second source: Any overhaul maker on this forum who has to explain to users to go to to %AppData%\LocalLow\The Fun Pimps\7 Days to Die to find their log files.

You CANNOT sell %AppData% as easier. Sorry. You just can't. Documents I would 100% back on that basis.

%AppData%?

No. Absolutely not.

Edited by KhaineGB (see edit history)
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14 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Well you don't have date to know that more drunk people made car crash with dead injuries that sober ones.

There is a wealth of data on traffic accidents and sobriety or intoxication of the drivers.  Compiled annually.  By country.  In the US, by State.  Correlated, analyzed, reviewed data.
 Just one source of information - the insurance companies that have to pay out claims based on traffic fatalities. 
https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-alcohol-impaired-driving

That has nothing to do with 7DtD and I'm not going to buy in to your attempts to redirect from the contention that you have no actual data sources to back up your opinion.

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5 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Maybe this is somehow connected with adding workshop in future

That was my initial thought, but the grand majority of Steam games that use the workshop will find the mod folders in \Steam\steamapps\workshop\content\

Again you have the really big issue that Khaine brought up with running multiple versions of the client.  I don't want to have Darkness Falls, Ravenhurst, or other mods all mingling together in one loadout. And moving large amounts of data around between playing separate versions is not a reasonable ask either.

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Note the changelog says "<UserDataFolder>" which happens to point to %appdata% on windows now, but such a default could be changed.

And concerning the main problem: For servers a solution already exists, with the serverconfig.xml having a line to change that path to anything one wants. Maybe there needs to be a clientconfig.xml as well. (or serverconfig.xml has to be parsed even on clients)

 

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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4 hours ago, KhaineGB said:


No it doesn't. Most users don't know %AppData% exists, because it's a hidden folder.

"easier" would be Documents, like you guys used to do.

Source:  Me doing tech support for Behaviour Interactive and having to tell users to go to %AppData%\Local to find their INI files to fully reset the game settings to fix bugs.

Second source: Any overhaul maker on this forum who has to explain to users to go to to %AppData%\LocalLow\The Fun Pimps\7 Days to Die to find their log files.

You CANNOT sell %AppData% as easier. Sorry. You just can't. Documents I would 100% back on that basis.

%AppData%?

No. Absolutely not.

I need some clarification on this idea. I was wondering if they used Documents would it still work like it does now where I can have my five 7 Days copies on my drive all with different mods that will work by just clicking the shortcut link I make on my desktop or will it just make it easier to swap out mods because the documents folder will be easier for most people to find?

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if i want to play vanilla with my modlets on one of my dedis, then i can,

if i want to play DF on my other dedicated then i can,

i was thinking of downloading war of the walkers....but wait

 

now i cant do ALL of these i can only do 1 now???

 

who cares about crossplatform, consoles wont be able to use mod files any way and will never be able to keep up with the pc version, so whats the point in this!!?!?

"if its not broken dont try to fix it"

 

by doing it this way, TFP will start to kill off a lot of big mod makers, they wont be able to do what they have been able to do so far, its hard enough working out ways for mods to work together, thats why players have more than one version of 7days in different locations

 

this is NOT productive, changeing something that works

 

 

Edited by Data (see edit history)
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4 hours ago, Gamida said:

I need some clarification on this idea. I was wondering if they used Documents would it still work like it does now where I can have my five 7 Days copies on my drive all with different mods that will work by just clicking the shortcut link I make on my desktop or will it just make it easier to swap out mods because the documents folder will be easier for most people to find?


The suggestion to use "Documents" would mean you could, in theory, still only run 1 mod, or vanilla.

Running from the /Mods folder within the game would be a LOT better as it'd allow you to do what you're currently doing.

But I made that suggestion as I had concerns TFP wouldn't listen to me if I said "Just get rid of it" whereas they might if I said "This location is bad because of X reason. Maybe try Y instead?"

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I put it simple. I don´t understand the change and I don´t like it.

 

I am no modder, I am just a regular player. I want stuff to be simple so I can do it easily. Download mod. Check. Open gamefolder over steam. Check. Put mods in modfolder check. Start the game and play. Check. I have a seperate SSD for windows so if I have to set up my system again I can do it without having everything installed there.

 

I still remember the pain I always had with minecraft. And then telling the boyfriend, who has no patience at all to swip around stuff on his computer, where to put it all so we can finally play together. I do not want this for this game and I do not see the reason for it. It worked. It was simple. So why changing it?

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9 hours ago, SylenThunder said:

That was my initial thought, but the grand majority of Steam games that use the workshop will find the mod folders in \Steam\steamapps\workshop\content\

Again you have the really big issue that Khaine brought up with running multiple versions of the client.  I don't want to have Darkness Falls, Ravenhurst, or other mods all mingling together in one loadout. And moving large amounts of data around between playing separate versions is not a reasonable ask either.

Nah , i'm just tired.  Well there rly good addon for l4d2 but after one small update it doesn't work good ( it create "shadow" zombies instead proper texture) so... i removed addons. Better to expect change on worst that be dissapointed right? So... just use to it - my SW BF2 (2005) don't work anymore because gamespy is dead. What i can do about that? nothing just use to it xd

9 hours ago, Evil_Geoff said:

There is a wealth of data on traffic accidents and sobriety or intoxication of the drivers.  Compiled annually.  By country.  In the US, by State.  Correlated, analyzed, reviewed data.
 Just one source of information - the insurance companies that have to pay out claims based on traffic fatalities. 
https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-alcohol-impaired-driving

That has nothing to do with 7DtD and I'm not going to buy in to your attempts to redirect from the contention that you have no actual data sources to back up your opinion.

Well you know almost  data is false? because you don't have 100% sure if someone say true about that - if someone is stealing probably he will not comfirmed that right? 

 

Btw i wrote your date - 13 mln bought copies  With over 13 million copies sold, 7 Days to Die has defined the survival genre, with unrivaled crafting and world-building content.  you can find this quote in google , +- 20 K players per month ( you can find this in google - just write how many people play in 7dtd) +- 0,15% owners play in 7dtd per month - we don't know how many people mod their games - because nobody done research about that :) so even less that 0,15% owners of 7dtd  mod their game and not everyone of them have few copies :) 

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