Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[JaxTeller718]

On 7/21/2023 at 5:37 PM, Riamus said:

Really?  Why would protect affect what quests show up?  That seems like a bad design. ☹️

I can 100 percent tell you that with modding it HAS broken quests. At one point all we got was buried supplies. It took some major code modding to get it even working and even then when it did zombie spawns stopped worldwide. 21.1 has some major changes in store behind the scenes.

20 hours ago, Roland said:

@métaphore TFP has no plans for adding microtransactions nor for setting up any kind of exchange system between Dukes and real world currency. There is no plan to offer a free slow grinding path and a pay-to-win fast instant path. 
 

Traders were always meant to be a central part of the main game play and there are more developments that are planned, that will increase their influence in the game even more. These changes are not to set up a new source of revenue for TFP but are to set up the main story quests and the reputation system for gameplay purposes. 

That’s not to say they won’t ever release DLC content that will cost money, but they are not going to somehow lockdown Dukes so they can tie them to real currency and set up in-game pay-to-win transactions. That is just looney town talk. 

You underestimate my willingness to throw money at you guys for ANY DLC. Like an obscene amount. Get busy.

[NukemDed]

14 hours ago, JaxTeller718 said:

You underestimate my willingness to throw money at you guys for ANY DLC. Like an obscene amount. Get busy.

ummm my definition of dlc is ''does like cash''

chuck it this way matey, i got safe hands

[Matt115]

Well - better paid for additonal stuff that... have nothing new xd

[Tete1805]

I would gladly pay for additional content (new zombies, new animals, new biomes, new weapons, new POI for instance).

[Jost Amman]

15 minutes ago, Tete1805 said:

I would gladly pay for additional content (new zombies, new animals, new biomes, new weapons, new POI for instance).

The good news is that you don't even have to pay for that.

The Fun Pimps have been so smart about it, that you can get all of that from mods, for free. 

[RhinoW]

7 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

The good news is that you don't even have to pay for that.

The Fun Pimps have been so smart about it, that you can get all of that from mods, for free. 

There are very hard limitations for actually decent custom content, let's not get ahead of ourselves here (this isnt minecraft or elderscrolls/fallout). But it is enough to create some fun new experiences. And for the most part, xml is quite accessible and easy to understand.

[Matt115]

8 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

The good news is that you don't even have to pay for that.

The Fun Pimps have been so smart about it, that you can get all of that from mods, for free. 

Bad news : most of them are bad quality  So better to get something good that something terrible for free : what you looks better and more suitable for 7dtd? This zombie models from paid game no more room in hell 2?

 

or from mod?

 

 

 

I think first option looks much better  

So:

1. Yes it would be possible to make vanilia suitable mod but... modders just don't do it

2.  Someone can said " But modders are not rich enough to buy good models!" - true yet are able to "take off " harley queen from Batman. I think they could take models from cod, l4d2, or even re 2 ( spoiler art - people are using RE 2 models for mods in diffrent games)

3. "this is cause because it's not final version" no. Which model you choose for mod is your decision. 7DTD get 1 update per year not per month. Somehow Valheim is able to get "vanilia" like aethetic mods

 

So - no this is not alternative: if you doesn't have leg but you would have money you would rather get good prothetic leg made by serious company not wooden leg done by using wood from garbare

Edited July 29, 2023 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

4 hours ago, Matt115 said:

So - no this is not alternative: if you doesn't have leg but you would have money you would rather get good prothetic leg made by serious company not wooden leg done by using wood from garbare

Not true. According to many players on the Steam forums and here, the modders are so great that The Fun Pimps should give their game to them so that they can develop a proper game, instead of this "garbage" TFP have come up with. /s

[falloutcloud]

Is it time to retire this dev diary and start the A22 dev diary?

[Arma Rex]

14 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Bad news : most of them are bad quality  So better to get something good that something terrible for free : what you looks better and more suitable for 7dtd? This zombie models from paid game no more room in hell 2?

 

or from mod?

 

 

 

I think first option looks much better  

So:

1. Yes it would be possible to make vanilia suitable mod but... modders just don't do it

2.  Someone can said " But modders are not rich enough to buy good models!" - true yet are able to "take off " harley queen from Batman. I think they could take models from cod, l4d2, or even re 2 ( spoiler art - people are using RE 2 models for mods in diffrent games)

3. "this is cause because it's not final version" no. Which model you choose for mod is your decision. 7DTD get 1 update per year not per month. Somehow Valheim is able to get "vanilia" like aethetic mods

 

So - no this is not alternative: if you doesn't have leg but you would have money you would rather get good prothetic leg made by serious company not wooden leg done by using wood from garbare

Yeah, it's pretty difficult to find mods that actively attempt to either use assets that look vanilla or otherwise just fit in the game's art style. Undead Legacy somewhat does this, but there are a few features that do not attempt to blend with the game. I suppose post-gold release more modders will be attracted to the game, perhaps with a vanilla focus.

[Riamus]

16 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Bad news : most of them are bad quality  So better to get something good that something terrible for free : what you looks better and more suitable for 7dtd? This zombie models from paid game no more room in hell 2?

 

or from mod?

 

 

 

I think first option looks much better  

So:

1. Yes it would be possible to make vanilia suitable mod but... modders just don't do it

2.  Someone can said " But modders are not rich enough to buy good models!" - true yet are able to "take off " harley queen from Batman. I think they could take models from cod, l4d2, or even re 2 ( spoiler art - people are using RE 2 models for mods in diffrent games)

3. "this is cause because it's not final version" no. Which model you choose for mod is your decision. 7DTD get 1 update per year not per month. Somehow Valheim is able to get "vanilia" like aethetic mods

 

So - no this is not alternative: if you doesn't have leg but you would have money you would rather get good prothetic leg made by serious company not wooden leg done by using wood from garbare

Honestly, I think the first screenshot's zombies look horrible.  Not anywhere near as bad as the second but still not very good.  I like the looks of the zombies in this game much better.  As far as quality of artwork in mods, that's dependent on the ability of the person doing the work (within the limitations of the engine, of course).  Some modders are good graphics designers but many (most?) are not.  And often what you get with custom art is mediocre because of that.  But that doesn't mean a good graphics designer couldn't make art assets that look great in the game and fit the game's style.  It just isn't too likely to happen because modders just aren't usually really good graphics designers - or at least, not for character models, which can be far more difficult to do well than a sign or even a vehicle.

[BFT2020]

All of those zombie models are better than anything I could do today

[RhinoW]

1 hour ago, Riamus said:

Honestly, I think the first screenshot's zombies look horrible.  Not anywhere near as bad as the second but still not very good.  I like the looks of the zombies in this game much better.  As far as quality of artwork in mods, that's dependent on the ability of the person doing the work (within the limitations of the engine, of course).  Some modders are good graphics designers but many (most?) are not.  And often what you get with custom art is mediocre because of that.  But that doesn't mean a good graphics designer couldn't make art assets that look great in the game and fit the game's style.  It just isn't too likely to happen because modders just aren't usually really good graphics designers - or at least, not for character models, which can be far more difficult to do well than a sign or even a vehicle.

 

Sure, if you just compare the uniqueness of the designs, 7 days to die wins. However, you're not looking at the context of the zombies. Both games have hordes and lots of roaming enemies, meaning, you want to make "common" zombies as similar as possible, to avoid the noticeable repetition that ruins world credibility. Another big issue is that 7 days to die zombies feel stiff and artificial as they lack facial animations and ever since that headtracking update, even when they get that head stun animation where they grab it, they're still looking at you, which simply doesn't make sense. It's the tiny things that make a product feel complete, and atm,  neither the base game or modding have that.

 

Also, custom MODELS is that last of modding problems, a model swap is basic, the real modding comes from custom hitboxes, mechanics, animations, events...etc.

 

So I got my fingers crossed until gold, where I really hope this is addressed and 7 days can become as immortal and moddable as Minecraft. (I mean seriously, its a Unity game, should be much easier to mod at the end).

 

 

[Riamus]

Well, animations are likely to get improved surely before gold.  They are already working on zombie variations, so that helps.  As far as facial animations... I couldn't care less.  I'm not watching their facial expressions when I play.  I'm looking them.  Other animations, sure.

[RhinoW]

10 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Well, animations are likely to get improved surely before gold.  They are already working on zombie variations, so that helps.  As far as facial animations... I couldn't care less.  I'm not watching their facial expressions when I play.  I'm looking them.  Other animations, sure.

Seriously? No mouth opening, biting, twitching? Most of 7dtd encounters are close quarters. it's so weird having all zombies keep the same face no matter what. To each their own, but if they ever add it, you'll see.

[Riamus]

3 hours ago, RhinoW said:

Seriously? No mouth opening, biting, twitching? Most of 7dtd encounters are close quarters. it's so weird having all zombies keep the same face no matter what. To each their own, but if they ever add it, you'll see.

Yes, really.  I wouldn't mind if they added that.  Anything that improves visuals is good.  I just really don't care.  I'm not talking to the zombies.  I'm fighting them.  And except in the early game, I'm usually killing them at a distance anyhow.

 

Besides, I have a feeling that if they add facial animations, especially biting animations, they will look cheesy.  I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Matt115]

18 hours ago, Riamus said:

Honestly, I think the first screenshot's zombies look horrible.  Not anywhere near as bad as the second but still not very good.  I like the looks of the zombies in this game much better.  As far as quality of artwork in mods, that's dependent on the ability of the person doing the work (within the limitations of the engine, of course).  Some modders are good graphics designers but many (most?) are not.  And often what you get with custom art is mediocre because of that.  But that doesn't mean a good graphics designer couldn't make art assets that look great in the game and fit the game's style.  It just isn't too likely to happen because modders just aren't usually really good graphics designers - or at least, not for character models, which can be far more difficult to do well than a sign or even a vehicle.

It's in WD style. looks better in movement : 

 

 

i Agree about lack graphic design - yet : if they " rip off" models from batman which is not suitable to 7dtd then they could dunno- call of duty  llike l4d2 modders

20 hours ago, Arma Rex said:

Yeah, it's pretty difficult to find mods that actively attempt to either use assets that look vanilla or otherwise just fit in the game's art style. Undead Legacy somewhat does this, but there are a few features that do not attempt to blend with the game. I suppose post-gold release more modders will be attracted to the game, perhaps with a vanilla focus.

I don't think so. It's 10 years since release. So if someone was attracted - would join long time ago

[Matt115]

On 7/29/2023 at 7:44 AM, Jost Amman said:

Not true. According to many players on the Steam forums and here, the modders are so great that The Fun Pimps should give their game to them so that they can develop a proper game, instead of this "garbage" TFP have come up with. /s

We live in the world when some people think that Cats skins in COD are cool : CoD players divided over “stupid” cat Operator skins in Warzone & MW2 - Charlie INTEL. Yet most people consider this as bad. While diamonds like days gone didn't get enough sold copies during released period so won't get sequel.  Yet - l4d2 which is much harder work to do right get high quality models : Warsztat Steam::Extended Common Infected (steamcommunity.com) , Warsztat Steam::L4D1 Common Infected Overhaul (steamcommunity.com) : it's done by this same person from 64 combination into 286 720! . Well - they mean probably mechanics, lack of content. TFP maybe do much less but much better quality - that's fact. Yes endless reworks are annoying and unnecessary yet... it's good quality unlike to modders work

18 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

All of those zombie models are better than anything I could do today

Not realy ; there is adage here : if you do something - do this solid/good ( can't be translate 1:1) or do totaly nothing. 

[Matt115]

16 hours ago, RhinoW said:

 

Sure, if you just compare the uniqueness of the designs, 7 days to die wins. However, you're not looking at the context of the zombies. Both games have hordes and lots of roaming enemies, meaning, you want to make "common" zombies as similar as possible, to avoid the noticeable repetition that ruins world credibility. Another big issue is that 7 days to die zombies feel stiff and artificial as they lack facial animations and ever since that headtracking update, even when they get that head stun animation where they grab it, they're still looking at you, which simply doesn't make sense. It's the tiny things that make a product feel complete, and atm,  neither the base game or modding have that.

 

Also, custom MODELS is that last of modding problems, a model swap is basic, the real modding comes from custom hitboxes, mechanics, animations, events...etc.

 

So I got my fingers crossed until gold, where I really hope this is addressed and 7 days can become as immortal and moddable as Minecraft. (I mean seriously, its a Unity game, should be much easier to mod at the end).

 

 

background :  No more room in hell 2 was made most of time by people in their free time. now since last  year they are able to work full job. So it's "fair" comparison with mods - well re 2 models would be much better but this AAA game.  

crawler zombie and wright now looks so bad in 7dtd - crawler is only zombie that looks rotten while rest fresk and wright was change from mutant into just zombie while spider and screamers are not mutants xd

for me mechanics or event is not problem. If there is not enough zombie variants ( at least visualy)  i don't  have reason to play - cod CW oubreak mode is from mechnical and gameplay point of view pretty fun until you start clean map (it's good thing if you plan to do Main Quests) and you see over and over maybe 20 zombie variants this became so boring and reptative. Who cares if you can do so many things when you literaly fight with clone army? 

 

There is so many options for zombie variants and types so i could make even a list for that xd

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Who cares if you can do so many things when you literaly fight with clone army?

 

The Wachowski brothers made 2 films about this, and the fights with the clone army were the highlight of those movies.😁

 

 

 

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

The Wachowski brothers made 2 films about this, and the fights with the clone army were the highlight of those movies.😁

 

 

 

Good point so explain better  it was suitable for this sci-fi setting.

"Clone army" doesn't mean literaly clone army - this can mean when there is not enough enemy types/variants. So games where there can be literaly clone army  can avoid "clone army" problem

 the best examples are 

1. fear

2. Serious sam

3. kiling floor.

4. Painkiller

 

1. Fear - situation with this brand of complicated so let's treat that every game is cannon.  Fear is brand when you play with mercs, clone army and mutants/ghosts. Yet clone army is not "clone army" in gaming meaning - there so many variants of them if we summarise every type of enemy from 1 game and dlc - there is like 30 types of enemies + visual variants. In FPS from 2005 - so you don't have feeling that you fight wil over and over this same few enemies but  often there is something new.

2. Serious sam in kinda Sci-fi movies parody when you again fight with clone armies but... there is so many variant of them + lore explanation : this one if clone , this one skeleton etc. so you don't have this vibe because often you met new  enemies, some reappair after long time etc.

3. killing floor - this is similiar situaon like above buit horror movies parodies- enemies are clones but.... you get thematicaly diffrent visualy of them. plus... this is not game to play for hours : just play one match during talking about random stuff before go to sleep

4. painkiller - game set in purgatory/hell : there is many "clones" yet... it's two things - game is literaly in hell so enemies are "representation" of sinners/demons. Boy with knife is symbol of bad boys. Cultist monk - symbol of satanistic cults etc. AND..... there is many types of them. Some are unique for  single maps. And even more - some enemies have variants : skeleton soldier have ww1, military base , civil war and air fight variant. this same thing with dunno zombie warriors with 3 variants, lepper zombies etc. while... this game was costed.... 20 zł ( it's like 4 dolars in 2004 ) then game + dlc 20 zł both.

 

While in cod it's just looking cheap. That's why i'm so glad that TFP decided to add this "clothes colours" because this can help a little bit.  i give up hope that TFP will add more zombie types ( unless they will decided to make dlc). Yet there is pretty many options of suitable for 7dtd that could be added by mods which would be vanilia like ( less chances that dlc)

[meganoth]

51 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Good point so explain better  it was suitable for this sci-fi setting.

"Clone army" doesn't mean literaly clone army - this can mean when there is not enough enemy types/variants. So games where there can be literaly clone army  can avoid "clone army" problem

 the best examples are 

1. fear

2. Serious sam

3. kiling floor.

4. Painkiller

 

1. Fear - situation with this brand of complicated so let's treat that every game is cannon.  Fear is brand when you play with mercs, clone army and mutants/ghosts. Yet clone army is not "clone army" in gaming meaning - there so many variants of them if we summarise every type of enemy from 1 game and dlc - there is like 30 types of enemies + visual variants. In FPS from 2005 - so you don't have feeling that you fight wil over and over this same few enemies but  often there is something new.

2. Serious sam in kinda Sci-fi movies parody when you again fight with clone armies but... there is so many variant of them + lore explanation : this one if clone , this one skeleton etc. so you don't have this vibe because often you met new  enemies, some reappair after long time etc.

3. killing floor - this is similiar situaon like above buit horror movies parodies- enemies are clones but.... you get thematicaly diffrent visualy of them. plus... this is not game to play for hours : just play one match during talking about random stuff before go to sleep

4. painkiller - game set in purgatory/hell : there is many "clones" yet... it's two things - game is literaly in hell so enemies are "representation" of sinners/demons. Boy with knife is symbol of bad boys. Cultist monk - symbol of satanistic cults etc. AND..... there is many types of them. Some are unique for  single maps. And even more - some enemies have variants : skeleton soldier have ww1, military base , civil war and air fight variant. this same thing with dunno zombie warriors with 3 variants, lepper zombies etc. while... this game was costed.... 20 zł ( it's like 4 dolars in 2004 ) then game + dlc 20 zł both.

 

While in cod it's just looking cheap. That's why i'm so glad that TFP decided to add this "clothes colours" because this can help a little bit.  i give up hope that TFP will add more zombie types ( unless they will decided to make dlc). Yet there is pretty many options of suitable for 7dtd that could be added by mods which would be vanilia like ( less chances that dlc)

 

I know what you meant. And I was specifically hinting that fights can be fun whether you fight with hundreds of individuals or hundreds of clones. You even could imagine that the zombies in 7D2D are really zombie clones generated at a secret lab. If a "realistic" explanation is important for you.

 

 

 

[Matt115]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

I know what you meant. And I was specifically hinting that fights can be fun whether you fight with hundreds of individuals or hundreds of clones. You even could imagine that the zombies in 7D2D are really zombie clones generated at a secret lab. If a "realistic" explanation is important for you.

 

7dtd supposed to be realistic style game (as for zombie standards in 2013) not parody ( killing floor, toxic commando). To be honest : i'm realy proud about new props quality ( good job), Pois and.... "enviroiment" ( yet there should be more corpse props types - it would help a lot), what about mechanics?  LBL is much worst that LBD but okay, water if fine, some receptures could be change a little bit but fine. Farming is too oversimply but i get it - it's not project zomboid after all. Yet.... armors, guns and enemies are proof that art style is TFP weakness.

But let's start from positive! 

Traders looks great, animals too ( i think that pigs shoulds stay but fine)

now bad

let's start from guns : their models looks like... designed for bootleg toy soldiers to avoid lawsuit by GJ.Joy producents  or weapons companies. No. there is no reasons looks like this in game set in realitisic style universe - there so many weapons and spare parts in USA that make using junk would much  harder that find suitable parts. Today are in use ww2 and ww1 with orginal config ( specialy MG42) so totaly there is no reason for that - low number of types of weapon is acceteble  by fact of perks and they  wanted to make melee and guns equal.

Armors.

This new fiber armors alone looks good but... totaly not fit to this game. it would be perfectly for metro - nature connected cultist which have a lot of sense when you consider where game take place. But 7dtd? best option would be.... remove it and just make players to find civilan clothes. clothes in real life could be exactly everywhere - starting on gas station and small shopes ending on random forgotten suitcase

 

 

Zombies: <sign>  one hand : normal zombies models are good from other : totaly lack of one artyle : radioactive looks like taken from 1 game, crawler from other with spider, screamer from another game, this same demolition man, and burned like from even other.

  crawler looks too roten  compare to other zombies only to spider, radiactive looks like taken from fallout - much better option to mix it with hazmat zombie : Grenadier | Dead Island Wiki | Fandom

Screamer looks... acctable yet because rest of special zombie not "get beaten" by this

spider looks too mutated compire to diffrent zombie - ofc it could be done in lab but then wright should again looks like mutant,

demoliton man - looks not suitable compare to soldier zombies.  What could be done with it? best option would be change into "infected suvivor" not soldier.

 

I get that TFP wanted to make 7dtd for wider playerbase as possible but design of "characters" looks like... this SCI FI channel movies which people are watching in hostels because netlix is not working. You now 16+ movies which are made realy fast and stuff is reaused often - this hunting rifle will be used in mutant in one movie while in another will be used by main hero in movie abou sharks while in another by gangster in criminal movie. 

 

I hope that TFP is able to make something more Mature and have hopes that artstyle problems are caused by focus on many technical problems connected with making voxel game

 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Laz Man]

https://twitter.com/7DaystoDie/status/1685808704422109184

Edited July 31, 2023 by Laz Man (see edit history)

[The_Great_Sephiroth]

MY only problem with these 4x4 vehicles is the things on the front that make them useless. The jeep isn't even used on our server (we use Bdubyah's humvee instead) because of the thing on the front that constantly goes into terrain. I can off-road in my F-250 all day right now. Put a snow-plow on it where it has an inch of clearance. Think it will do much of anything off-road?

 

I don't mind these plows as an option, but make them optional. The current jeep would be rad if we could remove the rigging up front and actually have more than an inch of ground clearance.

 

I'm from the south, I enjoy off-roading. Clearance is at the top of the list, especially if you're climbing rocks or going through rivers/deep mud. Give us a REAL off-road option!