Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Skippy5]

Is the goal of the new system to standardize and flatten the progression through day 50? I came here and read for about 1.5 hours trying to understand to vision, so I can provide some input (it seems to have been appreciated in the past). I know I play different than others and don't expect for the game to be developed for my playstyle (I will use mods for that later). I have played HC for some time (if I die, I reset). I typically make it to day 60 before I get bored and force a reset anyway. After upgrading to A21 and now my fourth death (two because I am a dingbat and two of which I think were bugs, as I just randomly died and the log said <playername> died), I have decided to just play for a while, not reset, and wait for mods or a future update to play again. This is because the new system feels very standardized with much less replayablilty (at least for me). It used to be starting over was exciting. The loot, recipe drops, etc made the play different each time. With the current system, it is very much the same with each reset. This is fine if the goal is to slow down progression, standardize, etc so that the eventual story can be added with the game. Making it move of a single play through game. However, if that is not the goal, then I think there need to be changes and would be happy to share my experiences. 

[fragtzack]

10 hours ago, zicky said:

I have enjoyed A21 so far.  In fact, I finally found the water purifier mod to be useful.  I never used it before because, honestly, there was no need.  Now it is my go to mod, second only to the helmet light mod.  With four dew collectors working I now have enough water to cook with and prepare glue.   Not sure why the price was increased on the water filter, though, since you really do need a minimum of two or, at least, that's my take on it.

I

Completely agree with all these statements !

 

[meganoth]

9 minutes ago, Skippy5 said:

Is the goal of the new system to standardize and flatten the progression through day 50?

 

I can only say the number 50 was just an example invented by me to have an easy calculation. I have heard them say they have an idea/notion/maybe even a design target of how many days a game should go, but I don't know anything about how much this influences the design.

 

9 minutes ago, Skippy5 said:

 

 

I came here and read for about 1.5 hours trying to understand to vision, so I can provide some input (it seems to have been appreciated in the past). I know I play different than others and don't expect for the game to be developed for my playstyle (I will use mods for that later). I have played HC for some time (if I die, I reset). I typically make it to day 60 before I get bored and force a reset anyway. After upgrading to A21 and now my fourth death (two because I am a dingbat and two of which I think were bugs, as I just randomly died and the log said <playername> died), I have decided to just play for a while, not reset, and wait for mods or a future update to play again. This is because the new system feels very standardized with much less replayablilty (at least for me). It used to be starting over was exciting. The loot, recipe drops, etc made the play different each time. With the current system, it is very much the same with each reset. This is fine if the goal is to slow down progression, standardize, etc so that the eventual story can be added with the game. Making it move of a single play through game. However, if that is not the goal, then I think there need to be changes and would be happy to share my experiences. 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Neminsis]

5 hours ago, meganoth said:

First of all it would affect them. And it seems you are all up in arms as well because even people who just want to discuss it and present their differing oppinions are met with rather hostile replies. I see nothing in BFT's post that warants your insulting sarkasm at the end.

No, it really wouldn't but do explain how you think it would.

No, they don't discuss it, they want to shut down discussion of it. 
 

21 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

but expect the game to be balanced towards those playstyles.

 

21 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

it is not up to TFP to change the game to meet your playstyle,

I'm sorry but I do find that fundamentally misstating my position and therefore impugning my intentions and character after I've repeatedly explained otherwise is offensive, and that my sarcasm is warranted after literally everyone that's brought up balance issues here has been treated poorly for it and since I've dutifully answered every reply I've caught more of it than is anywhere near necessary. To be clear, I didn't start this conversation in a hostile manner, but yes, I have been aggravated by the hostile responses I've gotten since then. 
 

5 hours ago, meganoth said:

No change I have seen you propose was without side effects for normal players. For example, if I remember correctly you proposed the trader offer more forge ahead (and maybe tools?) books. If the trader does this, normal players will have access to those books as well and can advance faster on the workstation track.

Alright, if you actually want to discuss it, in order of importance,

So how would slightly bumping up the exp gain from gathering affect "normal players"? If you think that you can level up through gathering at anywhere near the rate of a questing player even considering building exp, you'd be mistaken. Don't expect players to all of a sudden not want to quest any more because chopping trees is faster exp.

How would slightly improving the prices of bulk materials affect "normal players"? This is only to make it possible to buy what is necessary from traders and balance the difficulty between wilderness, Navezgane, and city spawns. And do please take into account that resources from pois are already balanced and limited to provide just enough to be able to build a base without having to gather manually.

As for increasing the availability of "tool magazines" at the trader specifically this doesn't favor the "normal players" because those tools aren't critical to their experience gain rate at all.

And for the "forge ahead" magazines the idea isn't to speed up crafting progression but to insure a minimum floor. Questing players are going to collect a lot more books from pois, the 1-2 available at the trader are just not going to make that much difference. Also, take note that because engineering and lockpicking affect the drop rate of the forge books doing so would also help to offset the imbalance in the Intellect tree.

Of all four of those ideas, only the first two could be considered critical, the third's necessity depends on the first two and whether higher quality tools would be needed to synergize with the gathering perks to the same effect, and the fourth is a throw away as it doesn't address the main problem but instead is aimed more at overall balance between the trees. 

 

[fragtzack]

Trader helicopter pads:

 

Obviously there is a plan for late game instant travel between trader outposts. <applaud> Well needed!

 

However, helicopter fast travel is so pedestrian and done by many games.  

 

 Human cannonball travel + parachute would be so much more fun and unique!

 

Human cannonball - Wikipedia

 

[Mister Forgash]

11 minutes ago, fragtzack said:

 Human cannonball travel + parachute would be so much more fun and unique!

No Parachute, just remember to buy your Oh-shiz drops.

[Riamus]

3 hours ago, Wulf said:

About magazines.

Suppose you run a coop game with 2 players. You want to play together and do quests together. Basically everything you would do solo except side by side. (i've done this in previous alpha's).

You don't loot more than if you were by yourself because you're running the same POI's with the same lootcontainers (except double quest rewards). Constantly keeping track what magazines you loot and who gets what seems much more tedious to me than it was in A20 (for example). There, we basically decided how we were gonna build or characters and who would spec into what. And that was it.

 

This new way seems to way too tedious for me. It's fine for when i play singleplayer though. Edit: Also, total team progression isn't faster in coop this way and would probably be slower compared to singleplayer (because of how looting works)

 

 

Am i alone in this? (This is besides having different playstyles trying to work together as described above where 1 player stays home - that has it's own problems like Gamida adressed)

Most my play is with one other person and magazines aren't really a big deal.  At first, you have trouble remembering who is reading what but it doesn't take all that long for that to end and both remember what the other is reading.

 

We loot faster and complete quests faster than I do in single player.  It isn't twice as fast but it is a lot faster.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[meganoth]

52 minutes ago, Neminsis said:

No, it really wouldn't but do explain how you think it would.

 

Even if it wouldn't they have the same right or desire to discuss it as you who discusses a problem that doesn't seem to affect you either by your own words, as you are talking about a play style you don't do.

 

The claim you made is "affect not at all" which is a much bigger claim than "affect only slightly". If you only had said the latter or similar I probably would not have commented at all.

Any xp increase for an activity will increase xp gain slightly for people doing that activity. In fact the player who does the farming in our group will get exactly the same amount of xp from farming as a guy only doing farming except if that guy produces food just for the sake of producing food. Incidentally such a change may even be beneficial for the "normal" balance and it is probably the least controversial suggestion. 

 

52 minutes ago, Neminsis said:

No, they don't discuss it, they want to shut down discussion of it. 
 

 

52 minutes ago, Neminsis said:

I'm sorry but I do find that fundamentally misstating my position and therefore impugning my intentions and character after I've repeatedly explained otherwise is offensive, and that my sarcasm is warranted after literally everyone that's brought up balance issues here has been treated poorly for it and since I've dutifully answered every reply I've caught more of it than is anywhere near necessary. To be clear, I didn't start this conversation in a hostile manner, but yes, I have been aggravated by the hostile responses I've gotten since then. 

 

If the misstating is about him saying "your playstyle" then it is at best even correct if he meant it as a shortform of "the playstyle you are discussing here" and at worst something he forgot in the back and forth and other discussions he is probably in. And yes, there were one or two posters who were rather hostile, but the art in forum discussion is to not lump everyone together.

 

And his point is relevant. It may lead to anything discussing it in the dev diary if TFP thinks the solution is already there and it is creative menue and modding, but not balancing, which is already difficult enough.

 

 

52 minutes ago, Neminsis said:

 

[...]

How would slightly improving the prices of bulk materials affect "normal players"? This is only to make it possible to buy what is necessary from traders and balance the difficulty between wilderness, Navezgane, and city spawns. And do please take into account that resources from pois are already balanced and limited to provide just enough to be able to build a base without having to gather manually.

 

We have a player in our group who often uses the nights to dig, say 3-4 out of 7 nights, while normally questing or looting with us on most days. I am sure there are groups who don't quest in the night (we usually don't as a group) and 1-2 players do exactly the same or more, maybe even 5-6 nights a week. Their resource pile should be in the same ballpark of a miner/cook/farmer who stays at home. Any increase in Dukes you can get from selling that stuff that would perceptively help that miner would help them as well.

 

52 minutes ago, Neminsis said:

As for increasing the availability of "tool magazines" at the trader specifically this doesn't favor the "normal players" because those tools aren't critical to their experience gain rate at all.

 

See example above, all these "hobby" miners I talked about get nearly as much of an advantage out of better tools than your miner gets. Moreover everyone in our group is using stone axes, pick axes, fireaxes, shovels, even augers daily when available. To open chests without lockpicks, to open windows or doors, or walls, to remove stairs at nightfall where sometimes every second counts, shovels to pick up resource stacks and yes, to mine as well from time to time. I usually have 3 weapons and 3 tools on my toolbelt. Now in the first week of your playthrough we ask our tool crafter twice or more each day if he got a new tool level ready. How can you say tool quality is not important to us? For XP probably only our "hobby miner" will see a bigger difference, usually he is 10 levels above our scavenger.

 

 

Sorry, have to stop here. My group starts playing 7days now.

 

52 minutes ago, Neminsis said:

 

 

And for the "forge ahead" magazines the idea isn't to speed up crafting progression but to insure a minimum floor. Questing players are going to collect a lot more books from pois, the 1-2 available at the trader are just not going to make that much difference. Also, take note that because engineering and lockpicking affect the drop rate of the forge books doing so would also help to offset the imbalance in the Intellect tree.

Of all four of those ideas, only the first two could be considered critical, the third's necessity depends on the first two and whether higher quality tools would be needed to synergize with the gathering perks to the same effect, and the fourth is a throw away as it doesn't address the main problem but instead is aimed more at overall balance between the trees. 

 

 

[mstdv inc]

The horde of the 35th day has just ended. 60 minutes of the game day. 35 hours in A21.
Single player game.
25% experience, 25% loot.
At the moment:
Forge + Anvil + Bellows + Crucible
Workbench
Chemical Laboratory
Concrete Mixer
9 dew collectors
1500 7.62 and 2200 9 mm 
AK 47 2lvl + 2lvl pistol + 3lvl Digl + 3lvl double-barreled shotgun
Hundreds and thousands of units of various resources
Trader Jan. Completed Level 3 tasks
Trader Joel. Completed Level 3 tasks
Trader Bob. Completed Level 2 tasks
Trader Hue completed the tasks of the 1st level

I still ride my bike. Before opening the first spare part of the mini-bike, you will need 1 store. I won't get it soon. There are few of them on sale. In loot, they do not fall out at all.
This is probably my only problem at the moment. A big problem with personal transport.
I understand that I'm playing on non-standard settings, but in A20 with 25% experience and 25% loot, I got a mini bike on the 26th day.

 

Spoiler

 

[NekoPawtato]

4 hours ago, Riamus said:

Not to mention, all the license plates are from Texas.  I guess Texas annexed Arizona?

I mentioned the license plate early on in the dev diary, from what I understand it's because TFP is located in texas and this is a nod to that

 

[FranticDan]

Request: Can we please get these stairs with railings?

[weldabar]

7 hours ago, RhinoW said:

Magazine weapon tiers

 

...

 

TL:DR : Weapon tiers should be unlocked earlier in the magazines as there is a stagnation period where the previous tier is constantly superior and is only outshined when the following tier reaches lvl 3-4 (and the previous one remains at 5), meaning lvls 1-2(3) are completely useless.

 

It seems this way to me too. I just unlocked crafting an iron pick axe and iron spear. I crafted both and when I saw the stats immediately threw them in the forge to be smelted. So from this I'm expecting to never craft lvl 1-3 of higher tiered items. Also my stone items only had a mod or two in them, not fully modded. It's much better progression than A20, where I would often jump from stone to steel. I do think there is still too much overlap.

[Ralathar44]

54 minutes ago, weldabar said:

It seems this way to me too. I just unlocked crafting an iron pick axe and iron spear. I crafted both and when I saw the stats immediately threw them in the forge to be smelted. So from this I'm expecting to never craft lvl 1-3 of higher tiered items. Also my stone items only had a mod or two in them, not fully modded. It's much better progression than A20, where I would often jump from stone to steel. I do think there is still too much overlap.

I mean the difference in all previous versions of the game is that the moment you touched iron or steel you no longer used stone or iron.  High quality meant nothing and might as well not have existed.  Now quality matters more than simply what something is made out of.  No longer with a dull, off center rusted axe head tied onto a random stick be better than a master crafted meticulously balanced stone axe shimmering in the halfllight with how sharp it is.

I like this version better and I don't know what you could do other than make the total difference between best craft steel and worst crafted stone even larger.  If anything the current version is more true to life.  Iron didn't immediately replace copper and stone, steel didn't immediately replace iron.  The expense, maintenance, and quality were big deals.  New metal techniques and learning how to get the impurities out and etc. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Ralathar44 (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

22 hours ago, vergilsparda said:

Sorry for geeking out in your replies

 

On my work laptop, I got the config files from A19, A20, and now A21.....so geek away

[BFT2020]

4 hours ago, Neminsis said:

I'm sorry but I do find that fundamentally misstating my position and therefore impugning my intentions and character after I've repeatedly explained otherwise is offensive, and that my sarcasm is warranted after literally everyone that's brought up balance issues here has been treated poorly for it and since I've dutifully answered every reply I've caught more of it than is anywhere near necessary. To be clear, I didn't start this conversation in a hostile manner, but yes, I have been aggravated by the hostile responses I've gotten since then. 

 

Please point out where I been hostile to you to warrant that response?  I fail to see anything other than I disagreeing with points that people have made.

 

I do see that you quoted me, but only parts of what I said.  And when you only quote part, it changes how something appears.

 

What you quoted

 

Quote

 

but expect the game to be balanced towards those playstyles.

 

it is not up to TFP to change the game to meet your playstyle,

 

 

What you quoted from

 

Quote

My comment was geared towards those that ignore game mechanics (i.e. removing POIs or just staying home building a base) but expect the game to be balanced towards those playstyles.  Learning by Reading, you have multiple options to get the various crafting magazines to progress - loot POIs, purchase from traders, quest rewards, air drops.  But if you remove most or all of those options while you are playing, it is not up to TFP to change the game to meet your playstyle, that is up to the player to mod the game.

 

See how different that is?  In this case, you does not mean YOU, it's a general you.  So really, who is impugning who? 

Edited June 22, 2023 by BFT2020 (see edit history)

[Arma Rex]

Day 12 and I unlocked every cooking recipe in the game, with only one point put into Master Chef. While very convienient, it seems fairly unbalanced to have every meal recipe available to you while still using stone tools, and just before the second horde night. Just my thoughts.

[Jost Amman]

6 minutes ago, Arma Rex said:

Day 12 and I unlocked every cooking recipe in the game, with only one point put into Master Chef. While very convienient, it seems fairly unbalanced to have every meal recipe available to you while still using stone tools, and just before the second horde night. Just my thoughts.

1) RNG (not everyone will experience the same)

2) The most easy to loot POIs often have a kitchen or some sort of kitchen cabinet -> hence more prob. to find cooking magazines

 

Just my 2 cents

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Jost Amman (see edit history)

[hiloboys]

1 minute ago, Arma Rex said:

Day 12 and I unlocked every cooking recipe in the game, with only one point put into Master Chef. While very convienient, it seems fairly unbalanced to have every meal recipe available to you while still using stone tools, and just before the second horde night. Just my thoughts.

You can always use those food items to increase your stamina and use those stone tools to harvest a ton of wood. (Im on day 21 and still using stone axe since level6 stone axe is stronger than level 3 fireaxe and it can also harvest ore.)

 

Anywho you can always cheeze the first horde night by making a long box hallway with wooden traps in the center and let those pretty much wreck every zombie on first horde night. Provided your still in forest. Since there are no flying enemies on first day 7 its pretty easy to cheese. (example O is wooden boxes and X is wood spike traps.)

 

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OYouXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXZombies Run here straight down middle to their death.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

the O's dont even have to be more than 1 high as long as the end of the hallway is completely open with only spike traps in the way. Thats what I do for first night. I either do that or use wooden hatches. Heh

[Riamus]

55 minutes ago, Ralathar44 said:

I mean the difference in all previous versions of the game is that the moment you touched iron or steel you no longer used stone or iron.  High quality meant nothing and might as well not have existed.  Now quality matters more than simply what something is made out of.  No longer with a dull, off center rusted axe head tied onto a random stick be better than a master crafted meticulously balanced stone axe shimmering in the halfllight with how sharp it is.

I like this version better and I don't know what you could do other than make the total difference between best craft steel and worst crafted stone even larger.  If anything the current version is more true to life.  Iron didn't immediately replace copper and stone, steel didn't immediately replace iron.  The expense, maintenance, and quality were big deals.  New metal techniques and learning how to get the impurities out and etc. 

Although true, in terms of gameplay, why have things you will never use?  Right now, I'll craft each level of stone weapon, then quality 5 iron, then quality 5 steel.  I won't touch the others because they aren't worth it.  And from the posts about it, it seems even those who aren't quite as limited in what they craft as I am still say they won't craft the next tier until quality 3-4.  So what is the point of having quality 1 and 2 if people aren't interested in using them?  Better to have it so that quality 1 iron is better than quality 5 stone and the same for steel versus iron.  Might not be as realistic but it's better for gameplay.

[vedrit]

6 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Although true, in terms of gameplay, why have things you will never use?  Right now, I'll craft each level of stone weapon, then quality 5 iron, then quality 5 steel.  I won't touch the others because they aren't worth it.  And from the posts about it, it seems even those who aren't quite as limited in what they craft as I am still say they won't craft the next tier until quality 3-4.  So what is the point of having quality 1 and 2 if people aren't interested in using them?  Better to have it so that quality 1 iron is better than quality 5 stone and the same for steel versus iron.  Might not be as realistic but it's better for gameplay.

They really do need to tweak things. Armor, weapons, tools, I won't upgrade to the next tier unless it's the same quality because higher tier lower quality = worse stats (plus fewer mods) and higher stamina usage

[Ralathar44]

16 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Although true, in terms of gameplay, why have things you will never use?  Right now, I'll craft each level of stone weapon, then quality 5 iron, then quality 5 steel.  I won't touch the others because they aren't worth it.  And from the posts about it, it seems even those who aren't quite as limited in what they craft as I am still say they won't craft the next tier until quality 3-4.  So what is the point of having quality 1 and 2 if people aren't interested in using them?  Better to have it so that quality 1 iron is better than quality 5 stone and the same for steel versus iron.  Might not be as realistic but it's better for gameplay.

Then either we have to nerf down everything below steel 3 to make room for that additional power gap between each tool or we have to make the character even more overpowered at high end.  You cant just manifest the power ranges that don't overlap out of nowhere.
 

8 minutes ago, vedrit said:

They really do need to tweak things. Armor, weapons, tools, I won't upgrade to the next tier unless it's the same quality because higher tier lower quality = worse stats (plus fewer mods) and higher stamina usage

As mentioned above, this is very much not a tweak, tis a global balance affecting thing. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Ralathar44 (see edit history)

[Neminsis]

9 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Even if it wouldn't they have the same right or desire to discuss it as you who discusses a problem that doesn't seem to affect you either by your own words, as you are talking about a play style you don't do.

Sure, they have the same right to discuss it, but being outright dismissive, rude, and insulting of my motive, I don't think so. 

Now you're just being pedantic. I play a lot of styles, as I've stated repeatedly at this point, so no, I did not say that. 

Every single one that's responded to "discuss" this topic has done so to defend the main game loop and/or stated that anything outside of the main game loop should be disregarded, even though the main two suggestions do not have any effect on it, and the sum of what they said always came down to essentially saying, "TFP can do what they want, mod the game if you don't like it, and with the implied stfu and go away you're dumb." I do encourage you to go back and take a look if you don't believe that.
 

28 minutes ago, meganoth said:

I probably would not have commented at all.

I've answered everyone as clearly and precisely as possible. I am not responsible for their misunderstandings or yours. I am glad that you responded though because at least you've shown some predilection for seeking clarity rather than just shutting the other person down.
 

36 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Any increase in Dukes you can get from selling that stuff that would perceptively help that miner would help them as well.

We're not talking about large profits here, we're talking about difference between selling excess resources and buying a water a day or nothing at all. When I say "slight increase" I mean exactly that. At most I'm thinking a couple hundred dukes a day would be enough of an increase and that's a drop in the bucket compared to what someone is going to make looting, and even a smaller fraction when you factor in quest rewards.

To make an easy test of it, start a game with no zombies, make a stone shovel, axe or both and then see how much you profit you can muster and what it'll buy you. If you think that it'll unbalance things later in the game go ahead and try it with maxed out skills and a maxed out auger, and to see how it would affect your scenario just mark down what is gained after 6 hours game time. Your night time miner is going to make an extra 50 dukes or so? It's really that close.
 

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

Moreover everyone in our group is using stone axes, pick axes, fireaxes, shovels, even augers daily when available.

What you're leaving out there is time/reward. Just because you use tools while you're questing doesn't mean that you're going to gain experience or resources substantially quicker when you do. The closest you're going to come to that is with dig quests and even if you dig out 30 blocks the amount of increase is going to be negligible when it's tuned to provide an extra couple hundred dukes and maybe a third again the exp on resources gathered over an entire day. 



 

[sillls]

One thing that might help is seeing all of the mods that can affect mods in both your inventory and storage boxes. 

For example: I will have a bunch of mods that I will put into storage. I open it but don't want to move all of those mods to inventory to see which one's work. There are a lot of mods out there that have nothing to do with each other and it takes time to sort. 

So why not has it so you can open the storage box, then select something you want to mod and have all of the items in both storage and inventory light up? 

[RhinoW]

6 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Seeing how the loot bonus is skewing everyone's expectation and the usual misconceptions about randomness emerging, I fully agree with you (at the moment 😉). 

 

The loot bonus is meant as a safety net, but due to randomness is also only randomly a safety-net. And since the bonus is always there it isn't really a safety net but a bonus that directly influences the balance of how many magazines drop. 

 

I.e. if TFP wants the games progression to last until day 50, they have to space out the 100 shotgun recipes over those 50 days, but they have to include the safety-net bonus in the calculation because a shotgun player will normally get that bonus.

So without that bonus each of the magazines would drop twice a day on average. Because of the bonus now perked magazines have to drop twice a day while all other magazines drop less than twice a day because the bonus is missing. In effect it seems more like a nerf for all other magazines.

 

Now surely TFP could also say, nah, we want the progression nominally until day 50, but we are ok with the progression of perked items being over early. No matter, it doesn't really feel like a safety-net looking at it this way, more like a fast-track.

 

I feel like randomness has always been part of the game and to be fair, I prefer it rather than forcing progression in some aspects. My problem isn't really giving and keeping track of stuff for my friends, but the fact that I'm harming their progression by looting myself (unless I don't spec into any weapon perks).

 

If I get lucky with the magazines I need, good, if I don't, also good because someone else will make use of them. People got too used to the new linear progression implementations I think, that they forgot (those who played), that in earlier alphas you had to scrape by with what you had to fight the horde, there was no authoritarian demands of something "expected". 

 

I think the magazines are a good way to bring this back + helping the progression have a baseline steady pace as a safeguard. In a way that you might be surprised in a department and weak in another, but rest assured that by X day, if you loot enough, you won't be missing out on that crucible. It was always the goddamn crucible. In every single alpha. Screw you crucible. Nobody likes the crucible.

 

[Neminsis]

1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:

Please point out where I been hostile to you to warrant that response?

How about the fact that you quoted a post where I'd just got done explaining myself for the nth time and told them that I didn't want to discuss it further and then you basically just repeated what they'd said too? After a certain point it's just piling on, yeah? 

One last time, I find it offensive to have it implied that I'm being self serving or whining about not having my one true game style supported, because I pointed out a small balance issue and made suggestions how it could be addressed.

 

1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:

See how different that is?  In this case, you does not mean YOU, it's a general you.  So really, who is impugning who?

Yes, it's different for the sake of brevity, but if you want to point out where at any time I was talking about this part...

 

1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:

My comment was geared towards those that ignore game mechanics (i.e. removing POIs or just staying home building a base) but expect the game to be balanced towards those playstyles.

And then tell me how exactly you think that it's ignoring game mechanics to get exp from gathering and being able to sell resources to the trader when those ARE existing game mechanics.  Also, conflating removing pois with casual people taking a slower pace with the main game loop, that smacks of disingenuousness.

Or was it this bit that you were concerned that I ommitted?
 

1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:

Learning by Reading, you have multiple options to get the various crafting magazines to progress - loot POIs, purchase from traders, quest rewards, air drops.

Because frankly, allowing those stay at homes to make a few more dukes so that they can buy books from the trader was pretty much my central point. Again, using the existing game mechanics.

But this one, this I really do find annoying.

1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:

But if you remove most or all of those options while you are playing, it is not up to TFP to change the game to meet your playstyle, that is up to the player to mod the game.

I've specified multiple times now that this is only problem for new and causual players, and mostly on the new wilderness spawns and the flagship Navezgane map. A pretty important demographic to the long term success of this game. You know, players that are unlikely to be jumping right into modding the game. but it's the same cookie cutter response as if I'd asked to bring back LBD or something "extreme" to quote a previous responder, 

To be frank with you, I'm annoyed, I expected to make one post maybe two, but here it is a week later, an initial balance pass has occurred in the meantime, and I'm stuck here arguing about things that I never even said by people that seem more concerned with gatekeeping than understanding what it is I actually did say.