Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Kazgrel]

I find the feedback about the female outfit that's pretty obviously a homage to Lara Croft rather bizzare seeing that it and the female bandit were the only newer female npc models shown.  Now if the female version of that wasteland assassin set is showing skin every which way, sure, a bit bizzare, but I figure it'll be more or less identical to the male counterpart.

[Crypted]

4 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Ok, so I watched the stream and can comment more directly now.  The desert outfit comparison of male to female is certainly very different, where the male outfit fully covers the male and the female outfit shows a lot of skin.  That doesn't mean you have to wear that outfit, though.  I'd assume there are still a wide variety of clothing that would provide the style each person wants.  But some women would like to wear a "Tomb Raider" style outfit.  And, right or wrong, many guys who choose to play female characters would want such an outfit.  So there is reason to have it in the game.  If I were TFP, I think I'd at least consider having male and female clothing have the same range of styles (maybe they already do), such that you can also get male clothing that is a male version of the Tomb Raider style, though honestly it would look better to me to have a Raiders of the Lost Ark male style to go along with the Tomb Raider female style even though one is clearly more clothed.  But as long as they offer fully clothed (no skin) female clothing, I think it'll be fine.  Let players choose what suits them best without being too stereotypical in the available choices.  If this was the only clothing option or all were like this, then I could easily see where some women would be offended, but I am certain it will not be and there will be options for those who don't like this style.

 

I just hope there are still going to be options for a wide variety of body shapes.  I'd prefer not playing a jacked guy and I'm sure many women would prefer not to play women with such a prominent upper half.  There were some different male options shown that do suggest we'll still have some variation in looks and hopefully it's a good variation.  I am also not a fan of the super hairy arms and legs on the one guy they showed.  It just looks really bad to me.

I agree with you, and yeah I think more clothing/armor are going to get added in at some point you know because they showed some clothes and armor already so why not add more variety to it. I think there should be an updated version to clothing suited for each biome if this makes any sense. The option to change your characters body shape will definitely be a great addition to the game in my opinion, so people can go in more depth of what play style they want and what the people want to look like. 

[Riamus]

10 minutes ago, Kazgrel said:

I find the feedback about the female outfit that's pretty obviously a homage to Lara Croft rather bizzare seeing that it and the female bandit were the only newer female npc models shown.  Now if the female version of that wasteland assassin set is showing skin every which way, sure, a bit bizzare, but I figure it'll be more or less identical to the male counterpart.

My thoughts as well.  The female bandit was fully clothed, so they aren't only doing that type of clothing.  I'm sure there will be variety when it's finished and people should wait and see how it turns out.  I also picked up on the Tomb Raider similarity and think it is fine to use a well known style here.  It isn't a bad thing to bring this up, though.  Letting the devs know that you think they need to offer other styles of clothing rather than styles that can be considered sexist is fine regardless what others think or even if you think they are already going to offer alternatives.

 

I am interested in seeing how the clothing actually works, though.  Is the outfit an actual outfit that is all one "piece", or can you mix and match as we do now?  If someone wanted that top but with snow pants (or whatever passes for the winter outfit's pants), can they do that?  I like how single piece outfits can look, but at the same time I really like having the option to mix and match rather than only having set looks to choose from.  Considering we have probably hundreds (thousands?) of possible looks currently and if we have to choose from one-piece complete outfits, we will never have anywhere near that many options.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Jugom]

46 minutes ago, Riamus said:

The desert outfit comparison of male to female is certainly very different,

hat, glasses, shirt, shorts, boots, kneepads, gloves and backpack. I think they have the same outfit. 

[Gronal]

I can understand the problem with the desert costume difference between male and female.
It seems the equivalent of emphasizing the dude's bulge giving him super tight shorts.
The female desert clothing looks real, don't get me wrong. I could see an IRL woman wearing something like that. In a zombie apocalypse though? Just seems needlessly skin-prominent. I think it needs to be a bit more practical looking and a bit less sexual.

Edit for perspective: I asked my gf what she thinks:
"well they obviously sexualised the woman more, more skin showing but idc at this point lol"
"the shorts are cute, the bralette is a bit much"

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Gronal (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

15 minutes ago, Gronal said:

The female desert clothing looks real, don't get me wrong. I could see an IRL woman wearing something like that. In a zombie apocalypse though? Just seems needlessly skin-prominent. I think it needs to be a bit more practical looking and a bit less sexual.

A woman would only wear this in the desert for a photo shooting. If you look at the clothes of nomads, they cover as much skin as possible. On the one hand to protect from the sun and on the other hand from the cold nights.

[Gronal]

Just now, RipClaw said:

A woman would only wear this in the desert for a photo shooting. If you look at the clothes of nomads, they cover as much skin as possible. On the one hand to protect from the sun and on the other hand from the cold nights.

True, I mentioned practicality but didn't even think about it in terms of keeping the sun off you xD

[Doomofman]

I'm not surprised to see a bit of a negative reaction to that female character model/outfit. I immediately saw the Lara Croft parallels, but as someone else mentioned, it kinda feels like a cosplay outfit for a photoshoot rather than something suited to the apocalypse.

 

But I don't think it's massively different from how the aesthetics of the Stripper or Jen models are. 7 Days has always had quite a stylized look to it and never took "practicality" too seriously, so for me, it fits in with the established 7 Days aesthetic.

 

Having said that, I'm speaking from a male perspective so I can't really speak to how a woman might feel seeing a character model like that

[beerfly]

Thanks for the good stream. Good job, can't wait to see all this new stuff in the game. 

 

[Guppycur]

Who. Gives. A. Frack.

 

Geesh people.  More important things to concern ourselves with than video game clothing.

[Blake_]

2 hours ago, RipClaw said:

A woman would only wear this in the desert for a photo shooting. If you look at the clothes of nomads, they cover as much skin as possible. On the one hand to protect from the sun and on the other hand from the cold nights.

While you are absolutely right, we should only mind the draw calls that the model has, which don't seem to be A LOT. Aside from that, it's a game, plus boobies, they are entitled to put in whatever they wish, within their own restraints. I see nobody complaining about the ripped hot zombies or the full nude of that excelent black porn actor specimen.

[Laran Mithras]

New Character Model Question: Will there be adjustable parts on the bodies?

 

I know many of the male players might like to increase the female bust size, but my wife took one look at the model and said, "Too big."

Will female players be able to REDUCE the bust size? 

[Moonflower]

Make the female wear burqa and everyones happy

[Akota]

2 hours ago, Guppycur said:

Who. Gives. A. Frack.

 

Geesh people.  More important things to concern ourselves with than video game clothing.

So very true Guppycur.  I agree that there are many more things to concern us in daily life and very little in game world. I play the game for fun and that is what I get out of it.

 

[Mumpfy]

Well, I usually focus on spotting things that I dislike on models and art stuff because it's kind of a work imposed habit, but I would like to go the other way about yesterday's stream. (is not that i didn't spotted anything “wrong” I could talk about, it's that I choose to focus on the good parts)

 

 

-One of the bandits male model as far as I could see, has different looking boots, and from the model bottom view you can notice they have even different soles.

 

-The female bandit, if I saw this right, has a blind eye on the same side where you can see she has a big scratch mark on her armor mask.

 

-The hoarder model… just awesome… can even go into details there because I would wear my finger tips out typing compliments on the model.

 

 

Those 3 bullet points could be taken as small details but for me it's a clear sign of high detail and care that goes beyond probably what they asked them to do and shows how into the models they are when developing them. Hats off for those guys.

 

All the poi stuff and building details were also really good. I just focused more on the models developing because it's what I like most.

 

Not in love with the desert dude model, but i guess that's just a personal thing, it doesn't mean at all that there is something bad about it. And I'm not even gonna jump into the female model controversy because I don't care that much about it.

 

I also appreciate that they are trying to have a more branded look on the stream.

 

One thing I would point if it helps in anything for the pimps is that taking screenshots of many parts of a workflow with a lot of text and info about it it's great to see behind the curtain a bit, but one can't really appreciate it on the stream because some shots are tiny as hell. So idk really if it's worthy.

 

In general I think it was a cool stream with some nice info about art stuff.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Mumpfy (see edit history)

[Trankitas]

Some females actually want hot-ish females clothes, although its not realistic from a survival standpoint.

I've heard, my cousins, female friends and gf say the exacts same words: "I look so ugly in the game" and "I look like a man" referring to female physical attributes and clothes.

So I'm in favor for some hot outfits for females (and men... that semi-nude cowboy in Joel's Twitter is hot AF and nobody is talking about him), let them have fun, it's just a game after all!
 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Trankitas (see edit history)

[Professor-Pip]

I agree with @CultOfMoose here, although I would not have put it so bluntly. Clearly, the females in this game are designed to cater to the male gaze, but it would be nice if the artists could think a bit more about practicality rather than sex. Why must all the prominent female characters have huge breasts (and I'm not talking about zeds here)? Not every woman who survives the zombie apocalypse will be built like Dolly Parton. So far that's what we've got in Jen and that's what we were shown last night. I hope the Devs and Artists realize that just like all men have different body types, women do too. 

[Mumpfy]

is kind of funny tho, nobody asking for a beer belly semi bold dad look for the male character... idk

 

damn i said i wasnt going to jump on that topic.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Mumpfy (see edit history)

[Riamus]

11 minutes ago, Mumpfy said:

is kind of funny tho, nobody asking for a beer belly semi bold dad look for the male character... idk

 

damn i said i wasnt going to jump on that topic.

Well, I did say I don't prefer to play a jacked guy. 

 

And, honestly, I think there is nothing wrong with having a beer belly player character option.  Why not?  Most games cater to a single look rather than more realistic looks.  It wouldn't be a bad thing to have the variety.  Not everyone's idea of the "perfect" person (male or female) is the same.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Mumpfy]

to me? idk i dont really care, even less in a mainly fpv game... to the Pimps? no idea, but my guess would be that the moment they change something to satisfy a requirement that its hugly personal choice they will fall into a rabbit hole because then they will have a trillon different requests, because as you said, to each its own. and will never be customizable to the point where you can please everyone. so just please some? please nobody? idk... their game, their vision of the characters concept. (for me at least)

 

can we ask them to change it? sure.... damn I made a fuzz over some stupid buttons. lol

 

is it wrong to want another body type? nope. no to me at least.

 

do they HAVE to change it? no.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Mumpfy (see edit history)

[saoron666]

Over 2000 hrs of gameplay, many updates came along, and now another one..

Not sure why there isn't new zombies, new look, new behaviors, etc..

 

even i noticed in prison area they don't even have jumpsuits or stripes, idk give it a more prison look and environment?

 

instead they used all the few zombies with same clothes and look and filled up the area..

 

I think instead of new decorative cars and tractors or wtv, they should've make new clothes for the zombies so it doesn't become annoying and tiring?

 

you see, even if you make a new area in space, and use the same zombies and clothes it will just look the same!

new area new POI needs also new zombies..not sure why they don't see this as game developers, no concept..

 

but they use their time on unnecessary decors..

 

 

 

[Laz Man]

2 minutes ago, saoron666 said:

Over 2000 hrs of gameplay, many updates came along, and now another one..

Not sure why there isn't new zombies, new look, new behaviors, etc..

 

even i noticed in prison area they don't even have jumpsuits or stripes, idk give it a more prison look and environment?

 

instead they used all the few zombies with same clothes and look and filled up the area..

 

I think instead of new decorative cars and tractors or wtv, they should've make new clothes for the zombies so it doesn't become annoying and tiring?

 

you see, even if you make a new area in space, and use the same zombies and clothes it will just look the same!

new area new POI needs also new zombies..not sure why they don't see this as game developers, no concept..

 

but they use their time on unnecessary decors..

 

 

 

 

The team fully understands.  Character artist are busy with bandits and new player character models.  Character artists are also different from Environment Artists who specialize on environment art.  Hopefully once you play A21, you will change your mind regarding the updated decors.

[Mumpfy]

as much as i would love zeds variations... the zombie models dont have "clothes" so texture change is easier but for really a more significant change that means at least a partially new model sculpt and all that takes with it. which my bet is takes a lot of time for them.

 

would be cool tho

 

i guess i could turn the janitor dude into a jail looking jumpsuit with just textures... but it would still be just one model mainly

Edited April 20, 2023 by Mumpfy (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

7 hours ago, Jugom said:

Hat, glasses, shirt, shorts, boobs, knee pads, gloves and backpack. I think they have the same outfit. 

Are you sure? 

[Syphon583]

23 hours ago, saoron666 said:

Over 2000 hrs of gameplay, many updates came along, and now another one..

Not sure why there isn't new zombies, new look, new behaviors, etc..

 

even i noticed in prison area they don't even have jumpsuits or stripes, idk give it a more prison look and environment?

 

instead they used all the few zombies with same clothes and look and filled up the area..

 

I think instead of new decorative cars and tractors or wtv, they should've make new clothes for the zombies so it doesn't become annoying and tiring?

 

you see, even if you make a new area in space, and use the same zombies and clothes it will just look the same!

new area new POI needs also new zombies..not sure why they don't see this as game developers, no concept..

 

but they use their time on unnecessary decors..

 

 

 

While I think everyone would agree that we could use more variety in zombie appearance, it's silly to discount the difference a greater variety in props will make to the game. Not everyone in the world drives the same car, has the same couch, hangs the same art, etc. The world of 7DTD (hopefully until A21) has been sorely bland and repetitive. It doesn't feel lived-in. All of these "decor" additions will go a long way to make the world feel more real.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Syphon583
spelling (see edit history)