Is there a reason behind Zombie digging & Matrix-esque abilities?

[Paiper Zombee]

I’m pretty sure this has been answered, but it was probably way before my time, so apologies in advance if this is a repeat. Is there a reason why Zombies are able to dig and why there is no option to shut that off like you can with feral sense and the other zombie abilities?

Also is there a reason why zombies have the ability to dodge, duck, and evade like Neo from the Matrix? I could accept this from the mutants (i.e. Screamers, Spiders, Wrights, the new boil having guy, and irradiated) because they aren’t zombies. But when a basic zombie is able to react and move like rigor-mortis isn’t a thing, it makes as much sense as the ability to dig with bare hands and not absolutely wreck said hands in the process.

Will we ever see an option to turn off digging completely and/or the Neo-esque abilities from basic zombies?

[JCrook1028]

5 minutes ago, Paiper Zombee said:

I’m pretty sure this has been answered, but it was probably way before my time, so apologies in advance if this is a repeat. Is there a reason why Zombies are able to dig and why there is no option to shut that off like you can with feral sense and the other zombie abilities?

Also is there a reason why zombies have the ability to dodge, duck, and evade like Neo from the Matrix? I could accept this from the mutants (i.e. Screamers, Spiders, Wrights, the new boil having guy, and irradiated) because they aren’t zombies. But when a basic zombie is able to react and move like rigor-mortis isn’t a thing, it makes as much sense as the ability to dig with bare hands and not absolutely wreck said hands in the process.

Will we ever see an option to turn off digging completely and/or the Neo-esque abilities from basic zombies?

Zombies dig because the Devs want them to. Zombies don't dodge.

[Boidster]

Is there a reason? Yes, the reason is that this is how The Fun Pimps have chosen to model their zombies/monsters/mutants/whatever-you-prefer-to-call-them.

 

An option to turn off digging? Never say never, but it seems unlikely. TFP want living underground to retain some of the same challenges as living above ground (a more specific reason). You can mitigate the risk and survive underground still, but you can't just dig 3 blocks down and forever be safe. I'm sure there are mods which turn this off.

 

An option to turn off "Neo-esque" behavior? I assume you're referring to the random and often jerky non-linear movement of many zombies. I'll bet a month of Roland's pay that there will never be an "option" to turn this off because there is no "off/on" with it. It's simply how the movements are animated. I think it would take an overhaul-level mod to change all of that.

[Kyonshi]

Zombies digging is intended and you'll have to live with this.

 

Zombies don't move like Neo in the Matrix, full stop. You're exaggerating it big time here. They can now duck and crawl and will sometimes perform this gesture randomly or in some occurence, they'll make look like they voluntarily bob and weave hits but I suspect it's just the crawling mechanic triggering when they move along or in contact with uneven surfaces.

 

Usually, the zombie thrope doesn't take account of the rigor mortis effect, except in the case of the Chinese jiangshi (or kyonshi, in Japan). The virus/organism/agent X that reanimates dead people nullifies the rigor mortis somehow, but flesh decay will still occur over time. Zack Snyder's Dawn of the Dead actually illustrates this very well. Freshly reanimated corpses are still vigorous and even seem to be stronger and own extra stamina. But after a while, muscle decay takes over and some specimens move slower and have numbed reaction time.

 

7DTD seems to take some elements from this but it's mainly inspired from the Walking Dead series, which the Pimps are fond of.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Kyonshi (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

Also, dodging might be in reference to how they move towards the player if they are not on one of the cardinal axes.  If you are directly N/E/S/W of the zombie, they tend to move in a straight line towards the player.  If you are diagonal to them, the zombie movement shifts between them.  Though I wouldn't call this dodging, more like weaving.

 

Dodge and evade are such generic terms that people could (and have) applied them to completely different circumstances.

[theFlu]

13 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

Also, dodging might be in reference to how they move towards the player if they are not on one of the cardinal axes.

This, and I've noticed lately that when they walk against the player the animations are quite bouncy. Similar to as attacking a wall, just a lot less amusing when its eating your face while at it.

[Paiper Zombee]

22 hours ago, Boidster said:

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Is there a reason? Yes, the reason is that this is how The Fun Pimps have chosen to model their zombies/monsters/mutants/whatever-you-prefer-to-call-them.

 

An option to turn off digging? Never say never, but it seems unlikely. TFP want living underground to retain some of the same challenges as living above ground (a more specific reason). You can mitigate the risk and survive underground still, but you can't just dig 3 blocks down and forever be safe. I'm sure there are mods which turn this off.

 

Interesting. I didn't know it was that short a distance to dig down and be safe. Since I started playing after digging was added my experience is that zombies still hear you and screamers will definitely still come knocking at that short a distance down, so I've always gone all the way to the bedrock.

 

From what I understand (and I could be wrong) there are no mods to turn off digging. It's too hardcoded into the zombie behavior or something along those lines to be completely removed.

 

Quote

 

Usually, the zombie thrope doesn't take account of the rigor mortis effect, except in the case of the Chinese jiangshi (or kyonshi, in Japan). The virus/organism/agent X that reanimates dead people nullifies the rigor mortis somehow, but flesh decay will still occur over time. Zack Snyder's Dawn of the Dead actually illustrates this very well. Freshly reanimated corpses are still vigorous and even seem to be stronger and own extra stamina. But after a while, muscle decay takes over and some specimens move slower and have numbed reaction time.

 

7DTD seems to take some elements from this but it's mainly inspired from the Walking Dead series, which the Pimps are fond of.

 

Ah. I missed his version of Dawn of the Dead. Always stuck with the original Romero versions. Thanks for this info.

 

It's from the original Day of the Dead that the concept of an underground bunker comes to mind for me. It made perfect sense that that would be one way to stay safe against the zombies by being hidden and out of their reach, and it made sense that people would learn to create a zone that was "safe" from zombies being that they were stuck in such a setting. If safety could never be established, everyone would be dead. In my opinion as a player it adds more to the atmosphere of knowing that I have to leave my safety and go out into the unsafe world above to get the things I need to survive, versus the current "nowhere is safe, you're always on guard, so you might as well just build your base above ground because it will make no real difference in the end".

 

Quote

Also, dodging might be in reference to how they move towards the player if they are not on one of the cardinal axes.  If you are directly N/E/S/W of the zombie, they tend to move in a straight line towards the player.  If you are diagonal to them, the zombie movement shifts between them.  Though I wouldn't call this dodging, more like weaving.

 

Dodge and evade are such generic terms that people could (and have) applied them to completely different circumstances.

So is this what that phenomenon is? Thank you for explaining. As a hunting/marksman/sniper gun user I see this a LOT. Also, while facing N/E/S/W I will see zombies spin out of the way of my attacks either while trying to shoot or trying to melee. This is what I meant by the Neo-esque abilities. They can be hauling toward me, then spin out of the way the moment I take the shot or swing at them. If I try to javelin throw on them (yes, don't laugh, I'm working with javelins as my melee at the moment) they will conveniently move just slightly out of the way a moment before the javelin strikes, causing a miss. 

Thank you all for your responses. I have definitely learned today. Hopefully zombie movements will be updated to work better in the future, and I really hope they check in to the zombies sometimes having an attack range that rivals Dhalsim from Street Fighter. But I do hope TFP's put in the option to allow digging to be turned off some day. 

[Crater Creator]

“Dig down 3 blocks” is a reference to when zombies couldn’t dig.  It didn’t matter whether you were too far away for them to sense you.  They could hear you or smell you all they wanted; they couldn’t do anything about it because there was a dirt block between you and them.  It was like this for many Alphas.  I’m glad that I can build above ground or underground now and they have comparable viability.

 

In a game where zombies can scratch their way through concrete and steel, I don’t see why they shouldn’t be able to also scratch through dirt and raw stone. In other words, digging zombies keep the game self-consistent.

 

If you have the Blood Moon and zombies turned on, then you deserve a compelling horde night experience.  And any setup where you can sit inactive through it with no losses is not compelling, in my view.

[Jason Tamosiunis]

On 2/9/2022 at 12:05 PM, Boidster said:

Is there a reason? Yes, the reason is that this is how The Fun Pimps have chosen to model their zombies/monsters/mutants/whatever-you-prefer-to-call-them.

 

An option to turn off digging? Never say never, but it seems unlikely. TFP want living underground to retain some of the same challenges as living above ground (a more specific reason). You can mitigate the risk and survive underground still, but you can't just dig 3 blocks down and forever be safe. I'm sure there are mods which turn this off.

 

An option to turn off "Neo-esque" behavior? I assume you're referring to the random and often jerky non-linear movement of many zombies. I'll bet a month of Roland's pay that there will never be an "option" to turn this off because there is no "off/on" with it. It's simply how the movements are animated. I think it would take an overhaul-level mod to change all of that.

well maybe TFP should follow actual zombie lore instead of this resident evil style BS george romero would be disappointed in them

[Roland]

31 minutes ago, Jason Tamosiunis said:

well maybe TFP should follow actual zombie lore instead of this resident evil style BS george romero would be disappointed in them

 

Maybe TFP is disappointed in George Romero. How about that?

[Paiper Zombee]

Quote

“Dig down 3 blocks” is a reference to when zombies couldn’t dig.  It didn’t matter whether you were too far away for them to sense you.  They could hear you or smell you all they wanted; they couldn’t do anything about it because there was a dirt block between you and them.  It was like this for many Alphas.  I’m glad that I can build above ground or underground now and they have comparable viability.

 

I see. I would've thought that if they detected the player they would've tried to find a way to the player by trying to search for a way in (door or hatch leading to the underground) and bash it open if it was within range.

 

Quote

In a game where zombies can scratch their way through concrete and steel, I don’t see why they shouldn’t be able to also scratch through dirt and raw stone. In other words, digging zombies keep the game self-consistent.

 

This is true even though its a loooooooong stretch for me. Wood I can see zombies breaking through, and I can even see breaking through cobblestone for the bigger creatures. Cement should be a big problem to break through and steel should be near impossible to break through. But I can live with this knowing that if I want to keep things more realistic I can turn down the block damage that creatures do. I get no option to do that with digging unless block damage changes that too.

 

Quote

If you have the Blood Moon and zombies turned on, then you deserve a compelling horde night experience.  And any setup where you can sit inactive through it with no losses is not compelling, in my view.

 

A compelling horde night experience can heavily depend on the player. I'm the type that likes to be out and active during the Blood Moons, though I am hoping they'll add variation in the future like "help defend the trader through the Blood Moon" or something along those lines instead of just the same old same each time. But if a player wants to sit inactive in their underground bunker during the Blood Moon, that should be their choice. Atmosphere wise, there's something unnerving about knowing a truckload of zombies and mutants are up above having a rager of party, and that going up there while that party is going on might spell death in all caps.  

[Vaeliorin]

8 hours ago, Paiper Zombee said:

I see. I would've thought that if they detected the player they would've tried to find a way to the player by trying to search for a way in (door or hatch leading to the underground) and bash it open if it was within range.

They would, but they couldn't dig/attack down, so you could dig a 3 deep hole, jump in, put a frame above your head, and be safe from any number/type of zombies forever.

 

I only ever built a crafting base underground, once, and I did it at bedrock, so while it wouldn't have be a viable horde base now (it would have then, though, again, I never used it for that) it would be just as viable of a crafting base now.

[meganoth]

17 hours ago, Paiper Zombee said:

 

I see. I would've thought that if they detected the player they would've tried to find a way to the player by trying to search for a way in (door or hatch leading to the underground) and bash it open if it was within range.

 

Exactly what they do now. Make a 3 block hole, put a block or hatch above you and they will bash it open. Remember the player is able to place a cement block above himself in a second and dig out of such a hole in 10 seconds. There is no need for a hatch to open. And really, what would you say if zombies could open hatches?

 

17 hours ago, Paiper Zombee said:

This is true even though its a loooooooong stretch for me. Wood I can see zombies breaking through, and I can even see breaking through cobblestone for the bigger creatures. Cement should be a big problem to break through and steel should be near impossible to break through. But I can live with this knowing that if I want to keep things more realistic I can turn down the block damage that creatures do. I get no option to do that with digging unless block damage changes that too.

 

Yes naturally, block damage setting works in all directions. This game is special in that everything is destroyable and buildable and the game should and does adapt to its strengths. So since players have super powers of build and destroy, zombies need similar powers as well or they would not be a danger.

 

This is neither a romero movie nor is it a typical game where all buildings and floors are unpassable barriers. Zombies don't dig in such games, but players neither.

 

17 hours ago, Paiper Zombee said:

A compelling horde night experience can heavily depend on the player. I'm the type that likes to be out and active during the Blood Moons, though I am hoping they'll add variation in the future like "help defend the trader through the Blood Moon" or something along those lines instead of just the same old same each time. But if a player wants to sit inactive in their underground bunker during the Blood Moon, that should be their choice. Atmosphere wise, there's something unnerving about knowing a truckload of zombies and mutants are up above having a rager of party, and that going up there while that party is going on might spell death in all caps.  

 

This is a horror game, horror games want to keep the player in a state of danger and don't want to give the player the decision to be completely safe whenever HE wants it, at least in vanilla.

 

But any player can mod the game, turn off zombies any time and turn them on again, turn on god mode, fly 100m above ground, turn down block damage or simply build a steel block 100x100x10m and be completely safe. Lots of ways to be safe and those and many more are enough choices in a horror game where it shouldn't really be possible, if you ask me.

 

PS: I built underground horde bases in the game as soon as zombies could finally dig, such bases need special knowledge about the way of the 7 days zombie, but they are possible.

It is an intrinsic characteristic of this game that conventional underground bunkers can't work like in reality.

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[sbaker10]

They've pretty much always, or at least since 7 or more years ago had the capacity to dig horizontally at frightening speeds, and I think to some degree they'd dig down within reason too, though I can't really remember, but if a zombie could dig it's way through 200 yards of soil and wind up under your base during a single horde night because it fell in a hole, it'd make little sense and beyond easy if they couldn't dig down at all. I do  find it somewhat annoying when you're 100 feet down and have dug several hundred yards horizontally out from your mineshaft and yet you still have screamers and wandering zombies constantly homing in on you, just because it's more annoying than challenging, but on horde nights being underground shouldn't make you invincible. 

Edited February 12, 2022 by sbaker10 (see edit history)

[Jason Tamosiunis]

On 2/10/2022 at 3:09 PM, Roland said:

 

Maybe TFP is disappointed in George Romero. How about that?

just think if it werent for romero we wouldnt have zombies at all and i think i speak for alot of people when i say this game shouldnt go down the resident evil style of zombies

 

[Boidster]

4 minutes ago, Jason Tamosiunis said:

just think if it werent for romero we wouldnt have zombies at all

 

Uhhh...Haitian Historical Society on line 1 for you.

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Jason Tamosiunis said:

just think if it werent for romero we wouldnt have zombies of one specific type at all

 

Fixed.

 

1 hour ago, Jason Tamosiunis said:

i think i speak for alot of people

 

Do you have a badge or something you could show me?

 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[Matt115]

12 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

 

 

This is neither a romero movie nor is it a typical game where all buildings and floors are unpassable barriers. Zombies don't dig in such games, but players neither.

 

 

This is a horror game, horror games want to keep the player in a state of danger and don't want to give the player the decision to be completely safe whenever HE wants it, at least in vanilla.

 

It is an intrinsic characteristic of this game that conventional underground bunkers can't work like in reality.

 

 

 

1. PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. In RE2 MR.X can make hole in wall, in re 4 ( or 5 dunno)  you have even zombie guy ( if guy controled by parasite is zombie or not??) can even use mining tools !  Btw in romeo orginal night of living dead zombie kid ( yep zombie kid XD) is using garden tool to kill her mother 

2. Well 7dtd is not so much horror game - it is zombie game but not much horror game in my opinon. damn 7dtd realy need random ghosts XD

3. Damn meganoth! now i want 7dtd in ww2 setting.  So now i want in medival and ww2 setting but in medival setting more edgy, darker etc. @madmole i heard you love vikings right?

 

 

[Crater Creator]

On 2/11/2022 at 12:21 PM, Paiper Zombee said:

I see. I would've thought that if they detected the player they would've tried to find a way to the player by trying to search for a way in (door or hatch leading to the underground) and bash it open if it was within range.

 

…I can turn down the block damage that creatures do. I get no option to do that with digging unless block damage changes that too.

I guess someone should’ve clarified.  In this context, “dig” means the AI’s ability to attack a block below it, not the ability to attack dirt or other particular types of blocks.  So a frame, a hatch, or any block would protect you in the ‘dig down 3 blocks’ era (2 blocks for your character to occupy + one un-diggable block over your head).

[meganoth]

On 2/13/2022 at 2:31 AM, Matt115 said:

1. PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. In RE2 MR.X can make hole in wall, in re 4 ( or 5 dunno)  you have even zombie guy ( if guy controled by parasite is zombie or not??) can even use mining tools !  Btw in romeo orginal night of living dead zombie kid ( yep zombie kid XD) is using garden tool to kill her mother 

 

Obviously then RE is not "a typical game where all buildings and floors are unpassable" either.

Or is it? Can you dig or break walls everywhere or just in some specific places in RE? If the latter, then what has it do to with my argument?

And a scripted zombie kid killing here mother with whatever tool is an anecdote of some kind but again has nothing to to with the topic.

So PFFFFF back with a vengeance 😁

 

On 2/13/2022 at 2:31 AM, Matt115 said:

2. Well 7dtd is not so much horror game - it is zombie game but not much horror game in my opinon. damn 7dtd realy need random ghosts XD

 

And many horror movies have no real horror left for people who watch a lot of horror stuff. Still works for some. Doesn't really matter what you call it, having safe places would remove even more tension.

 

On 2/13/2022 at 2:31 AM, Matt115 said:

3. Damn meganoth! now i want 7dtd in ww2 setting.  So now i want in medival and ww2 setting but in medival setting more edgy, darker etc. @madmole i heard you love vikings right?

 

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

Doesn't really matter what you call it, having safe places would remove even more tension.

 

I would rather say that a safe area increases the tension when you have to leave it. There are always habituation effects when you are exposed to a situation for too long.

 

If you live in the destroyed biome, you quickly get used to the background noise and the lighting that is supposed to be scary. But if you live in the green biome and only visit the wasteland when you have to, it's a completely different experience.

 

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, RipClaw said:

 

I would rather say that a safe area increases the tension when you have to leave it. There are always habituation effects when you are exposed to a situation for too long.

 

If you live in the destroyed biome, you quickly get used to the background noise and the lighting that is supposed to be scary. But if you live in the green biome and only visit the wasteland when you have to, it's a completely different experience.

 

 

Good point. Though the ability to create a base that is except for one night a week practically as safe as your real-life home already does that. And it is a bit extreme if you actually can create a safe zone almost anywhere in a few seconds.

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Matt115]

9 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Obviously then RE is not "a typical game where all buildings and floors are unpassable" either.

Or is it? Can you dig or break walls everywhere or just in some specific places in RE? If the latter, then what has it do to with my argument?

And a scripted zombie kid killing here mother with whatever tool is an anecdote of some kind but again has nothing to to with the topic.

So PFFFFF back with a vengeance 😁

 

 

And many horror movies have no real horror left for people who watch a lot of horror stuff. Still works for some. Doesn't really matter what you call it, having safe places would remove even more tension.

 

 

 

1. it was joke about crashing walls. Well zombies in 7dtd are true rock punchers XDD Btw only similiar game to 7dtd is vanaheim - but even there destroing thing by enemy is more resticted - most enemies can destroing only player made blocks. Only some of them can destroing everything.

2. IT HAVE TO THIS TOPIC BECAUSE.... romeo reference must be used XD btw a little bit offtopic but ... . In DL1 you have zombies using hammers, planks and zombie childrens ( screamers) . In DL2 don't have this but they have tons of bandits damn this so boring xd. In dl1 they are much rarer xd

 

Well  i think now there is two types of horror in mainstream : focused on gore and focused of lore

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

1. it was joke about crashing walls. Well zombies in 7dtd are true rock punchers XDD Btw only similiar game to 7dtd is vanaheim - but even there destroing thing by enemy is more resticted - most enemies can destroing only player made blocks. Only some of them can destroing everything.

2. IT HAVE TO THIS TOPIC BECAUSE.... romeo reference must be used XD btw a little bit offtopic but ... . In DL1 you have zombies using hammers, planks and zombie childrens ( screamers) . In DL2 don't have this but they have tons of bandits damn this so boring xd. In dl1 they are much rarer xd

 

Well  i think now there is two types of horror in mainstream : focused on gore and focused of lore

 

"planks"?. --- 3. Damn matt115! now i want 7dtd in pirate setting. 😁

 

 

(At least the above assoziation seems comprehensible. How you got from my post to ww2 is still a complete mystery to me) 😉

 

[Matt115]

58 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

"planks"?. --- 3. Damn matt115! now i want 7dtd in pirate setting. 😁

 

 

(At least the above assoziation seems comprehensible. How you got from my post to ww2 is still a complete mystery to me) 😉

 

damnn nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

I hate water!!!!! 😭 i 

i watched  one time gameplay from subnautica with chulthulu mod and i was feeling so uncomfortable for all day 😅

 

Well my mind is soo random even  for me sometimes - quick example: newsstands -> horror game in victorian setting being something between little nighmares and horizon zero dawn. how?? this is simple  - newsstands are quiet basic shops with everything. This is similar to colonial shops from pre-ww2 period. Colonial shops - England. what is famouse and connected with England? Books- romeo and julia , olivier twist. Olivier twist? orphan. Orphan? orphanages. It was quiet good level in painkiller and could be perfect begining place for horror game right?  what is popular game about running away kid? little nighmares , and popular game about victorian period orphan? alice madness return.

So mix both characters from this game - barefoot girl in dress. But ww2 period? strange machines! So? KONFIKT 47. Konfikt 47? - british automatons.  But colonies so... bows!

that's how you get  idea to make game about rich girl whose parents die became poor orphan after her uncle intrigue. She ran away after something from orphanage in prologe and now she is huting automatons in London using bow.

 

Another one! 

Pirates -> game about kiling krakens etc  in space. 

How?? 

easy

pirates-> pirates of the caribbean -> krakens -> moon brothers from dead space 3 -> make game about hunting gigantic monster in void.

Damn i'm crazy sometimes

 

give me anything and i can give you fresh game idea 😂

Edited February 14, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)