Paiper Zombee

And this is what type of "Endgame" I thought 7 Days To Die might have. The player defines it, not necessarily the game itself. True indeed. And this is what I was trying to find out when it came to the route 7 Days is going in. Level 300 is (actually far beyond) the point where there is no more xp and skill progression so to speak. That's why I put that out there. Stay off the corner my friend...unless you've got Ho-Talents! Just remember, they don't work on rarity!

All right now...don't get a whoopin talking that trash. lol. That situation with the Ho-Talents has been re-evaluated. I thought it would effect rare items and getting them to drop more often. It turns out (it seems) that rare still stays rare, you just get a chance at better quality and quantity. So Crack-a-Book is still Lack-A-Book in that situation. Put all these here just so everyone can know how this new system will work and how it will effect what it will effect. These were all of my concerns and it looks like the direction I thought things were going in (i.e. it would've sucked to have to go read books 1-5 to learn how to create a forge, books 6-10 to create a workbench, etc) is not the direction things are going in. This is hot. And now, I'm like Dracula in Castlevania Symphony of the Night. "Enough Talk. Have at you!" Bring this new system forward so that we might undertake it personally. I'm ready to touch it like some grass outside and see how it feels.

Thank you Meganoth. This is what I was trying to get an answer to. And it sounds about right for the path this game follows. I will argue that "Endgame" is very properly defined. It just has a lot of different perspectives, as you already know. I was just trying to find out what perspective 7 Days To Die's endgame was coming from.

Let us hope this is true when it comes to the traders and that they will offer a variety of all books and not have set their table set to focus on the player and how they've spec'd instead. The conversation has mostly been about weapons, but this sounds like this change will also extend to skills as well. If you like mining and building, but can't stand looting and killing, that's too bad. If you want to get better at mining and building you still need to, as they used to say in those commercials back in the day, "Read The Book". And how long is it going to take for the looter (who will more than likely NOT be perked into mining) to find those mining books and bring them back for the miner? And will that even work past the first set of books? Hopefully books and magazines will be universal to their perk, meaning all one needs to do is collect 50-100 books for the perk and it's all good. But if the books aren't universal, i.e. only Books 1-5 will only appear at Rank 1 of the perk, while Books 6-10 will only appear at Rank 2 of the perk and so on...then this is going to create the situation that was mentioned in this topic where the looters will have to become jacks of all trades so that they're able to loot all the books that the others who don't loot will need. Okay Roland...I'm trusting you when you say that you're getting other mags outside your perk on a regular enough basis. It'll make what I said above null and void, unless it's the Book 1-5 only found at Perk Rank 1 and Books 6-10 only found at Perk Rank 2. And it's also good to hear that bookstores are getting updated to actually have *gasp* books and magazines! I always disliked this because it's most often the issue. You can buy or possibly find the items that you want before you ever get the parts to make them, ESPECIALLY when it comes to junk turrets. I've always wondered why, once spec'd into a specific weapon type, one didn't learn how to make the parts for those said weapons as part of the perk. To use World of Warcraft as an example it would be like taking enchanting, but finding out that you can't break stuff down to turn them into the materials needed for enchanting, you have to go find them in loot or on vendors. Thank you Roland for this insight. It's good to know where this change is coming from and why. Please no when it comes to weapon and tools having a finite life span. I think the system as it is is good and repair kits are fine in what they provide. I do not want to have to worry about completely rebuilding my weapons and tools every time they break. I'd never mine again. lol.

Uh oh...here comes one of the party poopers right now! lol I'm very glad to see that A21 is shaping up to be another game changer. But what is the purpose behind "Learn By Looting?". With the way the system is now, I like that I DON'T have to rely on the RNG gods to bless me. For whatever reason I ALWAYS have horrible RNG in games. I hear so many talk about how overpowered questing is and quest rewards and I immediately want to ask "What mods are you using, or what spec are you running because the only worthwhile thing I've ever gotten while questing that just changed my entire world is a bicycle." If it were not for the fact that I COULD perk up and craft my own forge, workbench, chemistry station, weapons, ammo, and other useables I'd be SOL most of the time. And this bad luck continues even once I pick up and mack out all the Ho-Perks (i.e. Lucky Looter, Better Barter, and Daring Adventurer) and slap on Lucky Looter goggles. I hope I'm absolutely wrong, but this just sounds like a horrible way to go. Everyone who has ever played this beautiful game knows how rare books and magazines can be. Even with all the Ho-Perks and loot goggles I can go into a big ol Crack-A-Book Tower or store, which is dedicated to books/magazines, and walk out with 1000 pieces of paper and 2 whole books. If Lucky Looter AND the loot goggles with their increased probability factors didn't help me out in this situation, (or in any situation when it comes to finding Rank 6 anything on my own or through vendors) I have little hope that this new A21 perk system will be any different.

Ah. So technically....this could mean there will never be an "Endgame" so to speak. The game would just keep following the same routine in perpetuity until one finally makes it to level 300. Lackluster to say the least, but at least Roland has warned that it was so.

That's too bad if this is true. I know that Fun Pimps have been working on the Bandits for quite a while now, but I hope this isn’t the way they plan to use them. Any time I hear the whole choose ONE faction to be a part of, and the other becomes your enemy gives me been-there-done-that-World-of-Warcraft vibes. There will always be one faction that is better than the other one, leaving no real incentive to join the lesser one except to see what it’s like. I hope the Fun Pimps take the Ultima Underworld approach to Bandits. In that game there are multiple factions from green and gray goblins, to mountainmen, to mages, to lizardmen, to undead (yep, you can befriend a faction of undead) to feral trolls. Green and gray goblins don’t like each other, but they give not a care if YOU are friends with both of their factions. You won’t get jumped by gray goblins because you’re friendly with green goblins and vice versa. Mountainmen don’t like either of the goblin factions I believe, but they have no problem if YOU are friends with those factions. And it keeps going on like this. The player can and will run across hostile versions of all the non-human creatures, and even some human ones. But they are not part of their specific factions and can be killed without repercussion. The only way to have the factions turn against you is if the player attacks and kills enough or all of an existing faction. Word will spread about the player’s actions throughout the abyss and eventually the player will find themselves the enemy of the state versus the still remaining factions. I think we've got this already when it comes to the Bloodmoon Horde Night. If you play solo, you're Ash vs Army of the Dead. I'll take a hard pass doing the same thing but with humans. And now we know the limitation that cripples this game in certain places. Can't have too many enemies or it will murder systems. It makes me wonder if they can expand on the "quest" and "note" technology to create instances so to speak. Everything else outside of that area is noted, but deactivated to allow the quest or note to spawn as many or as little zombies/others as need be. You will already fail a quest or note if you move out of their areas, so this would solve any shenanigans in trying to exploit them and have no enemy spawns in the world until that quest/note is complete. But as it stands the last thing one would want for an endgame is just another variation of Horde Night. Come on Fun Pimps. You've been working with this system for how long now? I know you can show us something innovative, different, and creative instead of same thing, different skin.

Wait...so you're telling me that the beginning of the game is actually the end? The mind boggles! Oh I'm sure they definitely will and probably already have. lol. Yep. Watch out for those drug store novels, they'll twist your bwain. A confrontation with The Duke is where I would think that things would lead up to. Unless I've heard incorrectly he's the one who sends the siege of creature out after you during Horde Night. How does he pull this off? Has he found a way to create and control zombies? We've already seen one of his twisted creations in the Demolisher. What else could he have at his disposal? That's a good thing for the character, bad on The Duke. But I've always been curious if plans were ever discussed about an endgame or where things would go. In my personal opinion, once you get past that initial 7th day, or whichever day you hold your Bloodmoon on, it's pretty much rinse, lather, repeat until your next horde night, and the next one, and the next one. The concept of the Horde Night never changes, the zombies just get stronger leading up to Demolishers and Irradiated. So once one reaches this point, it feels like Horde Night progression ends. It would be cool to see Horde Night events, like helping to defend a vendor, or defending a POI where precious cargo will be dropped once the area is secure. We've got the vendors, which provide quests and will eventually send you on to the next biome to meet the next vendor. But there are only so many vendors, they all top out at Tier V quests, and the amount of biomes to visit can be counted on one hand so even this progression hits a brick wall eventually. I like the concept of the night quests to restore power. That should be expanded upon. And bring back the random notes from the various clans that used to be in game. Where are these clans? Can we find them and join them if we do enough of their quests? Even character progression (which seems to be the driving force of this game) gets stale after a while. Once the struggle of getting the perks you need is over, there's really nothing else to drive the character to continue to improve. Since this is the type of game that it is, is this all that we'll have to look forward to as the game continues onward on it's path to gold?

I'm not sure if any discussion on this has taken place before or not so if so please forgive me, but what is the plan for the endgame of 7 Days to Die? Will it ever have one given the type of game that it is?

Greetings all. Yep. I'm about to become a thott for views as I present my 7 Days To Die series - Attack On The Block: A 7 Days To Die Adventure. The series chronicles the first seven days of my character's solo existence on the classic Navazgane map. If you're in the mood for a non-tradional weapon using, somewhat educational, at times boring because you had to watch gathering but ultimately awesome 7th day Bloodmoon finale that doesn't take place in a tricked out horde base, but a regular, ordinary neighborhood, then this is a watch for you! Though the series concluded it's last episode on Sunday, May 8th, I'm completely open to bringing it back for another 7 days of action. Each show is broken down into chapters so that you know where the action is and is not. I hope you all enjoy. Let me know if you'd like to see days 8-14 and thank you Fun Pimps for continuing to move forward with this game until it finally reaches gold! The first episode: My subscriber special full of basic things, discovery, and some botched horde events that ultimately lead into a new beginning on Episode 2. Episode #2 Where the REAL game begins! Episode #3 Episode #4 Episode #5 Episode #6 And finally, the attack on the block with Episode #7

I see. Now I understand the bug analogy. I had no idea digging was something TFP had been working on previously and were just trying to get it right. Thanks for letting me know this. This I remember, and yes the biomes (sans the Wastelands at night) did used to feel like they were empty at times. I've noticed that has changed since A20 and that's a good thing. Still not turning on feral sense though....lol. I agree with this, and the only light counter I have to it is that 7D2D is a type of game where the player can create their own "balance" so to speak to a certain extent. I like that ability and level of control. But balance for the sake of...well, let's just put it this way. Never put Blizzard and "balance" in the same sentence together. They did good jobs with that on everything except World of Warcraft. I played a Warlock in that game from the beginning until about two expansions ago when I finally retired from the game. And if you know anything about Warlocks and their balance history, then you'll know what road I don't want to see TFP go down and claim balance as the cause. Ah. I did not know the AI had been re-worked from top to bottom, and now it makes sense why nobody has been able to create a mod that removes digging. It's hardwired in to the new code. Though I would still like to see an option for no digging, I now better understand why it's not there and may never be available. And I can deal with that. In all seriousness, thank you for your responses. Who said there were no more civilized message boards for games around anymore! /agree. lol

I'd have to argue that a bug is a much different animal than something that was actually coded into the game to be an actual behavior. And I would share your doubt if, for example, something like feral sense hadn't been added. I wasn't one of the players who asked for it, and never had a reason to want something like it ever. But yet its a selectable option in the game. I have no idea how many people actually use it, but I'm sure the developers definitely sat down with it and tested it thoroughly before they just put it out there. I understand developers not liking too many options, but that is one of the things that sets this game apart from the others in its genre. The player is given a good amount of freedom to create their own play experience and that should never be taken away. And as far as effort goes...we are talking about the same developers who have put an obscene amount of effort into trying to circumvent certain ways that players play the game. That's how zombies being able to crawl through gaps got introduced, how zombies being able to swim better than the player got introduced, and recently why zombies can walk across dart slit blocks placed on the ground, as well as other previously troublesome terrain, without issue. I'd believe that the developers are already aware of what a digging/no digging option will bring to the game since it was part of the game before the change, so they wouldn't even have to sit down and test anything. But who or what does it hurt to put this in as a selectable option for zombie behavior? Like I said before, I didn't ask for feral sense and yet it's there. And it hurts me or the game in no way when I toggle that option off.

Man. Step away for a moment and the topic suddenly turned to talk about….planks? lol Anyway thanks all for sharing in this topic. I can understand why some never want the option for digging to become a player controlled option and that it should be something all zombies normally do. But I still stand by my opinion that it should be a player option, just like feral sense was made an option the player can turn off and on. Imagine if feral sense became the new unchangeable way that zombies behaved. Any new player, and even some veteran players would have to rock Romero esque settings (i.e. every zombie walks no matter what situation) just to be able to deal. We’ve focused only on being underground in the base during a Blood Moon when it comes to digging, but the situation goes beyond that. If one is above ground, since Zombies have the acute (and unnecessary) ability to know exactly where the weakest point in the base is, watch as a group suddenly decides that they want bypass the wide open pathways into the base and dig underneath it so that they can reach the one cobblestone block that was overlooked during the upgrading process and break through it. Also zombies can, will, and do dig outside of a Blood Moon. In both scenarios Zombies will dig their way around and under obstacles, such as spikes, fences, or game built barbed wiring. Remember how one used to be able to go all the way down to bedrock level and build an area for all of the heat using items to avoid unnecessary visits from the Screamer? She can now somehow STILL sense heat coming from that far down in the earth and will happily dig her way down to the source. Please Fun Pimps can we get the option to turn digging off and on like all the other zombie related stuff? One of the many things I like about this game is the ability to create my own experience, from a Romero-esque one (i.e. everything walks no matter what) up to a full throttle World War Z experience (i.e. feral sense is on and everything moves at max speed). Feral sense wasn’t forced onto the players and digging shouldn’t be forced either. Those who want it on will keep it on and those who want it off (like me) can turn it off. Who is it hurting to make this happen? Everyone wins.

I see. I would've thought that if they detected the player they would've tried to find a way to the player by trying to search for a way in (door or hatch leading to the underground) and bash it open if it was within range. This is true even though its a loooooooong stretch for me. Wood I can see zombies breaking through, and I can even see breaking through cobblestone for the bigger creatures. Cement should be a big problem to break through and steel should be near impossible to break through. But I can live with this knowing that if I want to keep things more realistic I can turn down the block damage that creatures do. I get no option to do that with digging unless block damage changes that too. A compelling horde night experience can heavily depend on the player. I'm the type that likes to be out and active during the Blood Moons, though I am hoping they'll add variation in the future like "help defend the trader through the Blood Moon" or something along those lines instead of just the same old same each time. But if a player wants to sit inactive in their underground bunker during the Blood Moon, that should be their choice. Atmosphere wise, there's something unnerving about knowing a truckload of zombies and mutants are up above having a rager of party, and that going up there while that party is going on might spell death in all caps.

You know I suspected this was the way it worked, but I thought I was thinking too deeply. The 50% chance applies to each plant harvested and not the overall number of the plants in the harvest itself. Got it. Thank you!

Interesting. I didn't know it was that short a distance to dig down and be safe. Since I started playing after digging was added my experience is that zombies still hear you and screamers will definitely still come knocking at that short a distance down, so I've always gone all the way to the bedrock. From what I understand (and I could be wrong) there are no mods to turn off digging. It's too hardcoded into the zombie behavior or something along those lines to be completely removed. Ah. I missed his version of Dawn of the Dead. Always stuck with the original Romero versions. Thanks for this info. It's from the original Day of the Dead that the concept of an underground bunker comes to mind for me. It made perfect sense that that would be one way to stay safe against the zombies by being hidden and out of their reach, and it made sense that people would learn to create a zone that was "safe" from zombies being that they were stuck in such a setting. If safety could never be established, everyone would be dead. In my opinion as a player it adds more to the atmosphere of knowing that I have to leave my safety and go out into the unsafe world above to get the things I need to survive, versus the current "nowhere is safe, you're always on guard, so you might as well just build your base above ground because it will make no real difference in the end". So is this what that phenomenon is? Thank you for explaining. As a hunting/marksman/sniper gun user I see this a LOT. Also, while facing N/E/S/W I will see zombies spin out of the way of my attacks either while trying to shoot or trying to melee. This is what I meant by the Neo-esque abilities. They can be hauling toward me, then spin out of the way the moment I take the shot or swing at them. If I try to javelin throw on them (yes, don't laugh, I'm working with javelins as my melee at the moment) they will conveniently move just slightly out of the way a moment before the javelin strikes, causing a miss. Thank you all for your responses. I have definitely learned today. Hopefully zombie movements will be updated to work better in the future, and I really hope they check in to the zombies sometimes having an attack range that rivals Dhalsim from Street Fighter. But I do hope TFP's put in the option to allow digging to be turned off some day.

I’m pretty sure this has been answered, but it was probably way before my time, so apologies in advance if this is a repeat. Is there a reason why Zombies are able to dig and why there is no option to shut that off like you can with feral sense and the other zombie abilities? Also is there a reason why zombies have the ability to dodge, duck, and evade like Neo from the Matrix? I could accept this from the mutants (i.e. Screamers, Spiders, Wrights, the new boil having guy, and irradiated) because they aren’t zombies. But when a basic zombie is able to react and move like rigor-mortis isn’t a thing, it makes as much sense as the ability to dig with bare hands and not absolutely wreck said hands in the process. Will we ever see an option to turn off digging completely and/or the Neo-esque abilities from basic zombies?

I too am among the rares in this topic who like the farming changes. I hated the idea at first and though it was pointless. But now that I've experienced it and worked with it, I like it. Investment should be required to farm efficiently, and this puts farming in line with mining where you CAN mine without talents but...it's going to be a headache. Now that the crop grow time issue has been resolved, the only thing that needs to be shored up is the randomness in seed return. If there's supposed to be a 50% chance of seed return, let it be what it says. If I plant 50 plants, I expect 25 seeds back, not 20, not 15. Don't lie and say 50% when in reality it's actually UP TO 50%. Other than that, farming change is good.

We have been searching for this in game, but our random gen didn't generate a Shamway Factory. I loaded up a single player Navezgane Map just to make sure Shamway Factories still existed. Found that they do, but found that the safe the recipe used to be in no longer has a safe. When I did find the safe, it had an armor schematic in it. Just wanted to check and see if this was still the way to get this recipe in A20 or is it now found at random out in the world?

Don't feel like an amateur at all. There's about 4-6 of us on our server so lots of hungry mouths to feed. But it's good to know that it not just me that's noticing this. Hopefully this will be fixed because even though I resisted it at first, the farming overhaul is not turning out to be too bad.

Hello crop team rep! Just like the post above me I planted all of the crops at the same time. All had unrestricted access to sunlight as they're located on the third floor of our homebase which has plenty of windows to the side and skylighting (glass blocks) in the ceiling so the sun can shine through. One thing I have noticed is that if I log out near the crops when I log back in the problem happens. However, if I log out away from the crops, like down on the first or basement floors of our homebase, or away from the base, the crops grow just fine and on time. Also, as an additional question, is the 50% return supposed to work on all or just some plants? I run 100 plants at a time and have noticed that harvesting certain crops (like corn) will correctly apply the 50% return and I walk away with 50 seeds. But with other crops like potatoes and pumpkins, it will not correctly apply the 50% return and I walk away with 30 seeds out of 100 plants.

An update to this topic. We're also noticing that the crops aren't growing at the same rate even if they're all planted at the same time. A section of the plants will always fall behind the others and take an additional 60 minutes (beyond the original 120) to go from "growing" to complete. Then, there will always be one plant out of the entire group that will fall so far behind it will stay as a seed for the initial 120 minutes and the extra 60 minutes that it takes for the left behind crops to catch up. Only after the left behind crops finish growing does this last plant move into the growing stage. I'm going to assume that because nobody else has responded to this topic, that what's happening to us is an isolated incident. So hopefully this topic is in the right place to report an issue/bug. We're really trying to be in support of the new Farming system, but so far its not winning any votes. Is this situation happening to anyone else in their MP games or is it just us and we need to reset the server?

I've been playing with Farming in the new A20 experimental build and have noticed that growing crops takes longer. It used to be 120 mins in real time. Now it takes closer to 4 hours real time. I didn't see this in the update notes and was wondering if it was a bug or if grow times have changed.