Its Annoying That Streamers Get the Game First!

[JCrook1028]

11 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

 

This does not apply to the thread of this dialogue. You asked who the hard workers are, I answered, you began to prove that streamers are also hard workers. I asked how this cancels out the fact that the most hard workers won't get the game, but the streamers will get it? The common hard workers won't get the game anyway. That's what it is about. Most hard workers except streamers, many of whom have made fake bot subscriptions to get the game earlier.

Wow, just wow. No matte rby who or how many times you're told you just refuse to acknowledge facts. Ok, feel free to live in your own little fantasy world.

[Gamida]

20 minutes ago, Sal said:

I bet you would have access to this feature if you were a streamer. 😉

 

[bachgaman]

39 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

Wow, just wow. No matte rby who or how many times you're told you just refuse to acknowledge facts. Ok, feel free to live in your own little fantasy world.

Facts that are not related to the subject of the dispute. I've already admitted that for some reason TFP won't release a release on Friday, regardless of the streamer weekend. How does this relate to the sense of injustice that they still release for some people? They also encourage us to watch those people enjoy it. This is very unfair and insulting.

[unholyjoe]

12 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

Facts that are not related to the subject of the dispute. I've already admitted that for some reason TFP won't release a release on Friday, regardless of the streamer weekend. How does this relate to the sense of injustice that they still release for some people? They also encourage us to watch those people enjoy it. This is very unfair and insulting.

that has been a good arguing point in the past hasnt it... oh shoot, no it hasnt.. my bad.

 

[MichaelL.]

Streamers generate revenue.   Non streamers do not.   Yes - TFP is a group of enthusiasts making a game - but they all also have to pay the bills.   Welcome to the real world where folks gotta make a living.....

[w0nder_AXEL]

I have to agree on this one. Most of the time the streamers are not the ones that are going to be really using this. It's the gamers, we play and enjoy and play again a year later lol

[meganoth]

19 hours ago, w0nder_AXEL said:

I have to agree on this one. Most of the time the streamers are not the ones that are going to be really using this. It's the gamers, we play and enjoy and play again a year later lol

 

TFP does not care if the streamers are really using it. It is a beneficial deal to both sides that has nothing to do with what the streamers do outside of that weekend.

 

Internal testers could play A20 months before you. Another beneficial deal, in this case one side gets money and the other side bugs reported. Is that unfair as well? Thousands of gamers will probably still play the game in a year. That they still have fun (without a single dime to pay) is their reward, why do they need to be pampered now?

 

I mean, sure, the gamers deserve recognition for promoting the game to their friends and all, but TFP for example developed a much much bigger game than what was iinitially promised in the kickstarter (without you paying for that as DLCs) and the developers are present on the forum to answer questions. Is that not recognition and reward as well? In other words, you get a present but you can't pick which one.

Edited November 12, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Urban Blackbear]

Not a big deal to me. Don't watch Twitch or streamers but I can understand why they get previews of releases. It's an industry and the industry works a certain way now.

[Roland]

On 11/10/2021 at 10:29 AM, theFlu said:

Is there a "hide this thread"-button somewhere...? You guys do you, but I'd rather not witness the pointlessness...

 

Let me guess...TFP forced you to click on this thread just like TFP forces people to use traders and only play using Strength as the primary build....

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

Internal testers could play A20 months before you.

 

Not only that but internal testers will barely play A20 after it is released before never using it again. Internal testers will be on to A21 within mere weeks of A20's stable drop.

[JCrook1028]

23 hours ago, bachgaman said:

How does this relate to the sense of injustice that they still release for some people?

Some people will always feel entitled to something they can't have. It's ok, you're not alone in your sense of entitlement.

[Roland]

23 hours ago, bachgaman said:

How does this relate to the sense of injustice that they still release for some people? They also encourage us to watch those people enjoy it. This is very unfair and insulting.

 

1) "Sense of injustice" is a feeling. Your emotions are your own and they spring from within you. They are something TFP has no control over. There is no universal and objective existence of injustice here as evidenced by the truth that not everyone sees it. You see it because of how you think and believe and feel. Others don't see it because they think, believe, and feel differently than you do. So there is no fact of injustice. There is only the feeling of injustice and feelings are ephemeral. Some people who felt injustice the first time this happened have changed how they feel. Matters of the heart are always subject to change and re-evaluation.

 

2) I hereby encourage you to not watch. I don't want to see you in any of the chats of any of the streams and I can even ban you from the forum during that weekend to protect you from all the stream related chatter that may get posted here if you want. Don't watch or interact with any watchers during that weekend. Got it?

 

3) "Unfair" is often mixed up with "Unequal" but they are different. It isn't equal that internal testers have been playing the A20 builds for months now while you have been playing A19. It isn't equal that streamers will be playing the A20 release candidate for a couple of days while you will still be playing A19. These are facts. But it isn't unfair for the following reasons:

    A) You are free to apply for a position as closed beta tester with TFP so the opportunity to be able to play future versions sooner is available to you.  Fair.

    B) You are free to create a channel and build your audience to the required number so the opportunity to be able to play future versions a fraction sooner is available to you. Fair.

    C) Your access to play a development build during the Early Access process has not  been nor will be suspended. You paid for early access to a development version of 7 Days to Die and you always are able to download and play a development version of 7 Days to Die until the game is done and you have the final version. Fair.

 

4) "Insulting" is a perception. I hope that it helps your perception by telling you that no insult is intended with the streamer event. A lot of times knowing that something we perceive as an insult actually wasn't meant that way really helps us to see that there is no reason to feel insulted......unless.....we primarily want to feel insulted and are searching for any excuse that will do the job. It may not change the fact that you don't like the event or want it to happen. But at least you don't have to feel insulted.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[theFlu]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

Let me guess...TFP forced you to click on this thread just like

Nah, one of their employees invited me back into it for some useless reason...

[wicketness]

Is this where you report missing Pretzel trucks?

It is very very late and i was lied to.

 

Pretzels where to be Halloween and now Santa has stolen the Pretzel truck and is threatening to drive it off a cliff.

OMG!!!! WE GOTTA SAVE THE PRETZELS. SOMEONE THINK OF THE KIDS.

[Roland]

43 minutes ago, theFlu said:

Nah, one of their employees invited me back into it for some useless reason...

 

That notification wasn't an invite. It was a warning.

 

Just like the one that you are about to get as soon as I click submit reply....

[bachgaman]

8 hours ago, Roland said:

 

1) "Sense of injustice" is a feeling. Your emotions are your own and they spring from within you. They are something TFP has no control over. There is no universal and objective existence of injustice here as evidenced by the truth that not everyone sees it. You see it because of how you think and believe and feel. Others don't see it because they think, believe, and feel differently than you do. So there is no fact of injustice. There is only the feeling of injustice and feelings are ephemeral. Some people who felt injustice the first time this happened have changed how they feel. Matters of the heart are always subject to change and re-evaluation.

 

2) I hereby encourage you to not watch. I don't want to see you in any of the chats of any of the streams and I can even ban you from the forum during that weekend to protect you from all the stream related chatter that may get posted here if you want. Don't watch or interact with any watchers during that weekend. Got it?

 

3) "Unfair" is often mixed up with "Unequal" but they are different. It isn't equal that internal testers have been playing the A20 builds for months now while you have been playing A19. It isn't equal that streamers will be playing the A20 release candidate for a couple of days while you will still be playing A19. These are facts. But it isn't unfair for the following reasons:

    A) You are free to apply for a position as closed beta tester with TFP so the opportunity to be able to play future versions sooner is available to you.  Fair.

    B) You are free to create a channel and build your audience to the required number so the opportunity to be able to play future versions a fraction sooner is available to you. Fair.

    C) Your access to play a development build during the Early Access process has not  been nor will be suspended. You paid for early access to a development version of 7 Days to Die and you always are able to download and play a development version of 7 Days to Die until the game is done and you have the final version. Fair.

 

4) "Insulting" is a perception. I hope that it helps your perception by telling you that no insult is intended with the streamer event. A lot of times knowing that something we perceive as an insult actually wasn't meant that way really helps us to see that there is no reason to feel insulted......unless.....we primarily want to feel insulted and are searching for any excuse that will do the job. It may not change the fact that you don't like the event or want it to happen. But at least you don't have to feel insulted.

Thanks for the long answer, dude. You are right about everything, but I will still continue to resent this release. I will accept it, but I will not stop being unhappy with it. Yes, these are feelings. I am human and I tend to feel. And I will still be convinced that no one would feel bad if they let everyone play, not just streamers.

[Roland]

1 hour ago, bachgaman said:

Thanks for the long answer, dude. You are right about everything, but I will still continue to resent this release. I will accept it, but I will not stop being unhappy with it. Yes, these are feelings. I am human and I tend to feel. And I will still be convinced that no one would feel bad if they let everyone play, not just streamers.

As much as we see things differently and play the game differently, it is clear we are both passionate about it so we do have that in common.

 

Hopefully, the bad taste will be replaced with good once you can get your hands on A20 (and remove the traders from it)  

[SittingDuck]

Again? I mean the streamers just get it a few days before us.

An it´s not the final version but the one before.

Relax...

[bachgaman]

4 hours ago, Roland said:

(and remove the traders from it)  

I would prefer to customize them. By the way yesterday I started a new game in the vanilla version, in Navezgane with a trader (100% loot 100% exp survivalist jog/run/nightmare speed). Just to once again see its imbalance. On day 4, I bought a crucible and some concrete, built a concrete base by day 5. By day 7, I had 0 deaths, tier 4 AK-47 with 500+200 ammo, 60 pipe bombs, a concrete bunker, an electric fence, a generator (albeit without an engine) and a whole bunch of other things. And all because of the trader. Once again, I am convinced that a trader is an absolutely imbalanced game mechanic.

Edited November 13, 2021 by bachgaman (see edit history)

[Data]

I disagree with the OP “streamers shouldn’t get it 1^st”

Streamers can put a lot of hard work into streaming this game,

They do this to showcase the game, when they do that, they can discover a good chance of bug finding, which TFP take notice of and fix, with patches/hotfixes and releases of experimental and stable versions

TFP coders play the game (and yeah some of those vids seen are really bad, makes me laugh at some of their game play), bugs/errors can be missed

So they put it out to the streamers that then discover them

That’s why TFP ask these popular guys to run the latest patch/version

Imagine this, (to the OP)

If it wasn’t for dedicated streamers/players that find issues/bugs/coding etc. errors

You would probably be moaning about “why is this now A19.4/5/6/7/8/9/10 updates, why do I have to keep updating, why is the game not fixed yet”

It’s because of testers like streamers that find the issues to make YOUR game play better

[Gamida]

That is a question I have asked earlier. I don't think streamers are classed as testers. From what I can tell from the forum they just need the 5000 followers to be eligible to get an early crack at the game for the streamers weekend. I don't think they are obligated to report any bugs they find. Now if they do or if someone watching reports a bug then that is entirely of their own choosing as far as I can see.

[7daystodierocks]

On 11/13/2021 at 4:02 AM, bachgaman said:

I would prefer to customize them. By the way yesterday I started a new game in the vanilla version, in Navezgane with a trader (100% loot 100% exp survivalist jog/run/nightmare speed). Just to once again see its imbalance. On day 4, I bought a crucible and some concrete, built a concrete base by day 5. By day 7, I had 0 deaths, tier 4 AK-47 with 500+200 ammo, 60 pipe bombs, a concrete bunker, an electric fence, a generator (albeit without an engine) and a whole bunch of other things. And all because of the trader. Once again, I am convinced that a trader is an absolutely imbalanced game mechanic.

simple solution to that bach Dont use the trader at all

[bachgaman]

Just now, 7daystodierocks said:

simple solution to that bach Dont use the trader at all

This is really a relatively simple solution, but it's a crutch. It's like cutting off your leg instead of treating it

[bdubyah]

Bach, I assume you've seen #10 on the list of new things shown in the original Dev Siary post, right? They know current trader balance is out of whack. Hopefully a20 will make it better. Gotta wait and see. May still not be nerfed enough to suit you but should be better than it is currently. 

[bachgaman]

4 minutes ago, bdubyah said:

Bach, I assume you've seen #10 on the list of new things shown in the original Dev Siary post, right? They know current trader balance is out of whack. Hopefully a20 will make it better. Gotta wait and see. May still not be nerfed enough to suit you but should be better than it is currently. 

Even if we imagine that they will balance it perfectly, it will not change the fact that they will balance for a game with 100% loot. Thus, when you playing with 50% or 25% loot, the trader will still spoil everything.

On 11/14/2021 at 1:04 AM, Data said:

I disagree with the OP “streamers shouldn’t get it 1^st”

 

Streamers can put a lot of hard work into streaming this game,

 

They do this to showcase the game, when they do that, they can discover a good chance of bug finding, which TFP take notice of and fix, with patches/hotfixes and releases of experimental and stable versions

 

TFP coders play the game (and yeah some of those vids seen are really bad, makes me laugh at some of their game play), bugs/errors can be missed

 

So they put it out to the streamers that then discover them

 

That’s why TFP ask these popular guys to run the latest patch/version

 

Imagine this, (to the OP)

 

If it wasn’t for dedicated streamers/players that find issues/bugs/coding etc. errors

 

You would probably be moaning about “why is this now A19.4/5/6/7/8/9/10 updates, why do I have to keep updating, why is the game not fixed yet”

 

It’s because of testers like streamers that find the issues to make YOUR game play better

 

By the way, how many bugs do you think they will find this weekend? What prevents them from having feedback and fixing bugs without streamers?

On 11/14/2021 at 1:04 AM, Data said:

You would probably be moaning about “why is this now A19.4/5/6/7/8/9/10 updates, why do I have to keep updating, why is the game not fixed yet”

Sure? Show me that person who would do this 😆

[Gamida]

3 hours ago, 7daystodierocks said:

simple solution to that bach Dont use the trader at all

I just started a new game tonight and from what I can tell I won't have that problem...maybe. I finished my basic quests and instead of getting my usual go to trader I got NO TRADER in red letters. Not sure if that means no traders on map or just no traders in the area I am in...will have to see.