A20 Developer Diary Discussions

[Mard-E-Momin]

3 hours ago, Promethean Winchester said:

But we will still be able to place a plate block in that 1 block opening and stop the zombies from getting through probably

True...just attach a hatch upside down and you can open close it just like the bottom ones, it'll actually be safer than the previous one hole design we normally use. 

[BobbyLee298]

faatal is on overdrive answering all these questions  hahaha

[Jost Amman]

32 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

There's not enough faatals for all these changes.

I'm sure each dev is doing his own part, they're just less... talkative I guess. ;-]

Edited January 22, 2021 by Jost Amman
typo (see edit history)

[MechanicalLens]

Just now, KingSlayerGM said:

This feature is listed on the first page of this thread, and no work has been done on it?

 

We've got about 6-10 months before experimental releases AT LEAST, judging by recent history. Don't get your shirt in a twist, plenty of development time still exists.

[KingSlayerGM]

1 hour ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

We've got about 6-10 months before experimental releases AT LEAST, judging by recent history. Don't get your shirt in a twist, plenty of development time still exists.

Unfortunately I am afraid you are right 😕

However we do have Richard on record talking about short release cycles and that was back in november. Have they changed their mind yet?

 

 

[MechanicalLens]

2 minutes ago, KingSlayerGM said:

Unfortunately I am afraid you are right 😕

However we do have Richard on record talking about short release cycles and that was back in november. Have they changed their mind yet?

 

 

They've been saying that for years. 😛 No, summer is the earliest, but you would have to fast forward that by a few months. My guess is mid to late autumn.

[Pants Onion]

Alpha 20? Really? More like 7 years to develop. Prove me wrong Madmole!?!?!?

[Trankitas]

54 minutes ago, Pants Onion said:

Alpha 20? Really? More like 7 years to develop. Prove me wrong Madmole!?!?!?

Don't challenge him, he'll use you as a toothpick.

[Roland]

7 hours ago, KingSlayerGM said:

This feature is listed on the first page of this thread, and no work has been done on it?

This is why developers are loathe to share roadmaps. No matter how much people assure them they understand that it is simply a plan that can change and shift as time goes on, when something doesn't turn out to follow the plan, people get bothered.

 

You'll notice the heading for that first post clearly says Alpha 20/21 roadmap-- meaning any of the listed features could slip to Alpha 21 if there isn't time to get them done for Alpha 20.

 

So...yes, the feature is listed on the first page and yes, no work has been done on it yet.

 

Just so everyone is also clear: Features on the first page could still end up getting cut altogether if TFP decides to change their plans. The features on the first page do not constitute a contract of promises between the developers and the customers. It is simply a document that gives information about plans that were made months ago and may end up changing as circumstances dictate.

6 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

They've been saying that for years. 😛 No, summer is the earliest, but you would have to fast forward that by a few months. My guess is mid to late autumn.

I think you are assuming that they are going to try and include everything on the first page into Alpha 20. I don't think they are going to do that. I think they will see where everyone is at in their projects in a few months and order a freeze on starting anything new and then polish and bug fix and release. Anything on that list that isn't done will get pushed back to Alpha 21. I think an early summer release of Alpha 20 is very possible if you view the given feature roadmap as spanning both A20 and A21.

 

But....if they do decide to cram more and more into it then you may be right and it could be end of summer before we see A20.

[Roland]

7 hours ago, KingSlayerGM said:

However we do have Richard on record talking about short release cycles and that was back in november. Have they changed their mind yet?

Not so much that they changed their minds as that they have short release cycles as an ideal they aspire to. We all know that in large studios there are executives that set deadlines and expect the game to be released on time no matter what: finished or not. The allure of being part of an independent studio is that you don't have that atmosphere of being under the gun to meet a release date or lose your job. Instead of being forced to release unfinished work, TFP can just delay the release date and keep working until it is finished to their satisfaction. Literally, "It's done when it's done".

 

That being said, one of Richard's roles is to push the team to stay on target and do all they can to get things done in a timely manner and to avoid scope creep. But at the same time he also believes in the mantra "it's done when it's done" and to not release something that isn't ready. So he is always speaking in terms of the ideal to remind people to try and stay on target. It definitely helps to have someone reminding everyone of target dates and to not get lost in the weeds of this or that cool feature that was brainstormed by the team yesterday but is not in the plan. It means that even though a target date is missed because things are not done, things are closer to being done because we have that person constantly reminding everyone about the goal.

 

3 hours ago, Pants Onion said:

Alpha 20? Really? More like 7 years to develop. Prove me wrong Madmole!?!?!?

Easily. Summer of 2020 was 7 years to develop. We are closing in on 8 years. It definitely is more like 8 years than it is more like 7 years at this point.

Edited January 22, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[EggsAisle]

11 hours ago, KingSlayerGM said:

This feature is listed on the first page of this thread, and no work has been done on it?

 

I think the first page includes items that are planned but not yet implemented. This thing isn't coming out tomorrow.

[BFT2020]

12 hours ago, KingSlayerGM said:

This feature is listed on the first page of this thread, and no work has been done on it?

It is called a roadmap.  Sometimes you run into detours, sometimes your GPS tries to make you drive into a lake  😉

[quixe]

Here's hoping we get rid of that obnoxious critical wound system.  I don't know what was wrong with wellness system  2.0 or even 1.0.  2.0 Punished you for not taking care of yourself. 1.0 punished you for dying or being an idiot and throwing your corpse at a POI.  The critical wound system seems to punish you for just playing the game which is really annoying considering the gamestage bound loot drops that were added in with the wound system....And the vultures

 

[MechanicalLens]

1 hour ago, quixe said:

Here's hoping we get rid of that obnoxious critical wound system.  I don't know what was wrong with wellness system  2.0 or even 1.0.  2.0 Punished you for not taking care of yourself. 1.0 punished you for dying or being an idiot and throwing your corpse at a POI.  The critical wound system seems to punish you for just playing the game which is really annoying considering the gamestage bound loot drops that were added in with the wound system....And the vultures

 

 

Every type of injury in the game punishes the player. That's what happens when the player does dumb crap. You live and you learn, you adapt or you die. This new critical hit system is the most in-depth of its kind we've had to date; before it was just bleeding, stuns, broken and sprained legs, and infection. Don't tell me you want to go back to that inferior system. Don't get me started on wellness - it was alright for what it was, but it definitely felt like a temporary feature. Very clunky indeed; it discouraged the player from eating 90% of the food within the game at the time. 1 max health and 1 max stamina per level seems perfectly balanced to me.

Edited January 23, 2021 by MechanicalLens (see edit history)

[Xtrakicking]

4 hours ago, quixe said:

Here's hoping we get rid of that obnoxious critical wound system.  I don't know what was wrong with wellness system  2.0 or even 1.0.  2.0 Punished you for not taking care of yourself. 1.0 punished you for dying or being an idiot and throwing your corpse at a POI.  The critical wound system seems to punish you for just playing the game which is really annoying considering the gamestage bound loot drops that were added in with the wound system....And the vultures

 

The wound system is one of the best latest additions. If you get hit by zombies, you get wounded. That's not punishing the player for just playing the game, that's just zombies dangerous. Stay away from zombies.

 

And if you ask me, I'd like zombies to be even more dangerous.

[Scyris]

I like some aspects of A20 but I feel dumbing down the gear system from 10+ slots to 4 is kinda taking it too far, it just seems like its going to cause more inventory clutter. Currently in 7dtd you can make a optimal clothes setting that generally gives you moderate protection in any temp, but to do this in A20 I have the feeling your going to need to carry extra sets of gear. I don't understand why you couldn't have added the outfits and kept the old system. a bigger inventory though can help with this problem somewhat. Would have been perfect that way. The linear loot I hope gets tweaked as it takes far to long to go from the stone to iron age imo. Love the new quest system, its going to be nice not getting locked into only having t5 quests to do that are never worth doing due to the time they take.

 

I do have a suggestion about the skill system though, get rid of the 5 stats, and make 3 pools, Weaponry, Defenses, and Survival. All weapons go into weapontry, all defensive things like armor etc in defenses, and perks like miner 69'er, motherload, physician etc go into survival. I personally hate the fact that weapons are locked to diff stats, really pigeonholes me into what I can use effectivly. My suggestion here would fix that problem, you still need to invest in weaponry and then the weapons perk itself, but at least now its all under 1 stat instead of 5. You could even implement crosspool skills, for example Parkour could be classified both as Defense and Survival, so have the active level of the perk be for whichever of the 2 pools has the higher level of it. Just to give players options. The current stat system works decently for multiplayer, but it sucks horribly for a single player game as its too limiting and you do not have party members to pick up the slack.

5 hours ago, quixe said:

Here's hoping we get rid of that obnoxious critical wound system.  I don't know what was wrong with wellness system  2.0 or even 1.0.  2.0 Punished you for not taking care of yourself. 1.0 punished you for dying or being an idiot and throwing your corpse at a POI.  The critical wound system seems to punish you for just playing the game which is really annoying considering the gamestage bound loot drops that were added in with the wound system....And the vultures

 

 

If your sitting there tanking hits from zombies your playing the game wrong, your not meant to sit and tank them, your meant to dodge, and avoid being hit. Armor is just there for if you screw up (and you will eventually) to lower the impact of that screw up. Look at any zombie movie etc, no one lets themselves get hit by zombies on purpose unless they are planning to suicide, as thats what the result will end up being as all it takes is a single bite to infect you and then your dead anyway even if you somehow get away. Getting hit by zombies is supposed to be punishing as your not supposed to let them hit you in the first place. The crit wound system just reinforces this part of it by making it more punishing. It also allows zombies to always be a threat cuz even if you have 80-90% dmg reduction, all the wounds are going to add up and eventually lower your health to the point they CAN kill you, which I am guessing is the goal behind the entire system.

 

If I had to complain about something it would be the stealth system, not only can zombies pick up footsteps WAY to acutely, there is also the poi design where they seem to sit most sleepers behind a block so you cannot get a clear shot at them, and since they hear footsteps so easly even with maxed stealth perks, you can't get a angle to hit them usually. IMO with maxxed stealth perk your footsteps should be pretty much silent unless your in full unmodded heavy armor.

[MechanicalLens]

8 hours ago, Scyris said:

If your sitting there tanking hits from zombies your playing the game wrong, your not meant to sit and tank them, your meant to dodge, and avoid being hit. Armor is just there for if you screw up (and you will eventually) to lower the impact of that screw up. Look at any zombie movie etc, no one lets themselves get hit by zombies on purpose unless they are planning to suicide, as thats what the result will end up being as all it takes is a single bite to infect you and then your dead anyway even if you somehow get away. Getting hit by zombies is supposed to be punishing as your not supposed to let them hit you in the first place. The crit wound system just reinforces this part of it by making it more punishing. It also allows zombies to always be a threat cuz even if you have 80-90% dmg reduction, all the wounds are going to add up and eventually lower your health to the point they CAN kill you, which I am guessing is the goal behind the entire system.

 

If I had to complain about something it would be the stealth system, not only can zombies pick up footsteps WAY to acutely, there is also the poi design where they seem to sit most sleepers behind a block so you cannot get a clear shot at them, and since they hear footsteps so easly even with maxed stealth perks, you can't get a angle to hit them usually. IMO with maxxed stealth perk your footsteps should be pretty much silent unless your in full unmodded heavy armor.

 

My only small complaint about this however is this new system has made the knuckle build entirely less effective. In Alpha 18 if you were using the knuckles, you were meant to get hit. You had to take the punches while dealing out some of your own. In Alpha 19, this is not recommended at all. I've tried the fists in Alpha 19 for a short while and I just cannot get into them like I used to.

[MechanicalLens]

Here's what I want for A20. Steel ore. It makes zero sense, but trust me on this one. Infinite steel at your fingertips.

[Slingblade2040]

Have Day count Zombie variations ever been considered? Like I don't mean gamestage since it can vary because of difficulty but like actual days passing in game making the zombies mutate due to just the passage of time? Like once we get past day 49 and onto day 50 we see new Zombie types or old ones with new abilities. 

[EggsAisle]

11 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:

Have Day count Zombie variations ever been considered? Like I don't mean gamestage since it can vary because of difficulty but like actual days passing in game making the zombies mutate due to just the passage of time? Like once we get past day 49 and onto day 50 we see new Zombie types or old ones with new abilities. 

 

That's actually how it used to work, IIRC, before gamestage was a thing. I think they ditched it because gamestage gives them (and players) a lot more consistent control over pacing, especially in multiplayer servers. 

[Blake_]

6 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

Without a video I can't tell if it's a nice POI or not... can't see much from the picture honestly.

Who cares ? Everybody be like :

 

 

 

 

 

[Jost Amman]

7 hours ago, Games'n'Grumble said:

Well, I need to ask, I have been tormented by this question for several days, I hope I am not alone Dear developers, please explain:
1. The image below the number 1 shows the concept of a primitive rifle, which, apparently, shoots 7.62 rounds. What will such a rifle be made of? After all, it looks too good for the primitive stage.
2. I understand that this is just a concept, but still it is a rifle with a lever mechanism, which implies faster reloading of rounds. If so, this weapon looks more profitable than a hunting rifle. How will these rifles be balanced?
3. The image below the number 2 shows, as it says on Twitter, a primitive shotgun. OK, but why is the hole in the barrel so small? As if for 9mm rounds or .44?
4. Under the number 3 is a picture of a weapon that was not presented to us. What's it? It looks "more shotgun" than under the number 2. Maybe there was just some mistake?
Thank you for your work, I can't wait for the A20.

All 3 is the new Blundershotrifle gun. It's tier 5.

[MechanicalLens]

You forgot about the knucklespearclubsledgebatonknives.

 

 

If you're wondering, it's five spears per fist jammed into the knuckles, clubs and sledges welded onto the tips of the spears, batons attached to those with duct tape, and knives protruding from all those batons, held on by chewing gum and bailing wire.

[Blake_]

57 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Speaking of which, just for consistency's sake, is there a reason why the steel club and steel spear don't have schematics? Seems like a waste of a book slot to me. On top of that, I think I've brought this up before, there's no reason to lock the M60 schematic behind a high gamestage if the book to craft the item can be found on day 1.

 

That is absolutely true. I was also weirded out that they made those books instead of the schematic and therefore the friggin' book is a complete waste as they don't really do anything else.

There are clothing protection books that are a bit useless, but those two are just annoying (they could do something useless, but not useless to the point of repeating a perk crafting recipe, that's what  plain schematics are for).

 

@madmole , I would also like to hear your take on this matter, as it directly concerns your department.

[MechanicalLens]

2 hours ago, Blake_ said:

<snip>

 

Good luck to ya. This is the sixth, maybe the seventh time I've brought this up? 😛