Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[Khalagar]

Lol, people debating food spoilage again? I'm pretty sure the devs have very explicitly said "Nope. No way. Not happening. Nada, nope, nah" like 4 or 5 times to food spoilage.

 

It just adds a bunch of annoying anti-fun mechanics that are really punishing to new players, require a lot of dev work to set up, and are a non factor late game.

 

 

Food is never an issue in any survival game past early game, that's just the nature of survival games. Which is how it should be. Balancing your food bar isn't fun. Having it be a risk if you ignore it or get stranded somewhere is good, having it be a never ending struggle for the entire game to the point where you can't even go clear a T5 PoI because all your food will expire in your bag and you'll starve to death isn't fun, it's annoying in fact and actively stops you from being able to enjoy the rest of the game because you are playing a food bar simulator

 

I play almost nothing but survival games, but I still can't think of a single one where food is relevant past early game, for good reason. Stamina is the same way. It's essentially just a limit on how much fun you are allowed to have before the game says "nuh uh uh, take your hand off the keyboard and stand still for 10 seconds before you can play the game again!" , and usually is mitigated as you progress to a point where you can finally actually play the game without playing the green bar simulator. They are there for the early game challenge, but then are mitigated as you advance because they are annoying and tedious later on when you are trying to actually do something beyond just scrounge in the dirt in the early game

 

 

[xyth]

I don't agree, food spoilage is a nice mechanic, but difficult to balance well.  Sphereii and I released a spoilage mod for previous alphas, and many enjoyed it.  If food is rare enough into late game, then I agree its not really needed. Farming kills that balance since in vanilla zombies do not destroy crops.   In Starvation mod we added that function, plus crop disease, insects etc., so farming wasn't a ez fix to food as in vanilla.  So its about feature balance.  TFP likes to keep it simple, and that way works well too.

[Callum123456789]

3 hours ago, Khalagar said:

Lol, people debating food spoilage again? I'm pretty sure the devs have very explicitly said "Nope. No way. Not happening. Nada, nope, nah" like 4 or 5 times to food spoilage.

 

It just adds a bunch of annoying anti-fun mechanics that are really punishing to new players, require a lot of dev work to set up, and are a non factor late game.

 

 

Food is never an issue in any survival game past early game, that's just the nature of survival games. Which is how it should be. Balancing your food bar isn't fun. Having it be a risk if you ignore it or get stranded somewhere is good, having it be a never ending struggle for the entire game to the point where you can't even go clear a T5 PoI because all your food will expire in your bag and you'll starve to death isn't fun, it's annoying in fact and actively stops you from being able to enjoy the rest of the game because you are playing a food bar simulator

 

I play almost nothing but survival games, but I still can't think of a single one where food is relevant past early game, for good reason. Stamina is the same way. It's essentially just a limit on how much fun you are allowed to have before the game says "nuh uh uh, take your hand off the keyboard and stand still for 10 seconds before you can play the game again!" , and usually is mitigated as you progress to a point where you can finally actually play the game without playing the green bar simulator. They are there for the early game challenge, but then are mitigated as you advance because they are annoying and tedious later on when you are trying to actually do something beyond just scrounge in the dirt in the early game

 

 

food spoilage is just another micro management thing depending on how you play i think that we don't need any more things to micromanage 😂 also i agree that having to constantly manage your food bar really wouldnt be that fun

[Matt115]

4 hours ago, Khalagar said:

Lol, people debating food spoilage again? I'm pretty sure the devs have very explicitly said "Nope. No way. Not happening. Nada, nope, nah" like 4 or 5 times to food spoilage.

 

It just adds a bunch of annoying anti-fun mechanics that are really punishing to new players, require a lot of dev work to set up, and are a non factor late game.

 

 

Food is never an issue in any survival game past early game, that's just the nature of survival games. Which is how it should be. Balancing your food bar isn't fun. Having it be a risk if you ignore it or get stranded somewhere is good, having it be a never ending struggle for the entire game to the point where you can't even go clear a T5 PoI because all your food will expire in your bag and you'll starve to death isn't fun, it's annoying in fact and actively stops you from being able to enjoy the rest of the game because you are playing a food bar simulator

 

I play almost nothing but survival games, but I still can't think of a single one where food is relevant past early game, for good reason. Stamina is the same way. It's essentially just a limit on how much fun you are allowed to have before the game says "nuh uh uh, take your hand off the keyboard and stand still for 10 seconds before you can play the game again!" , and usually is mitigated as you progress to a point where you can finally actually play the game without playing the green bar simulator. They are there for the early game challenge, but then are mitigated as you advance because they are annoying and tedious later on when you are trying to actually do something beyond just scrounge in the dirt in the early game

 

 

Well i agree with you - spoilage is more annoing that fun because well- farming in 7dtd is broken now so - doing quest only to buy food sound boring xd 

1 hour ago, xyth said:

I don't agree, food spoilage is a nice mechanic, but difficult to balance well.  Sphereii and I released a spoilage mod for previous alphas, and many enjoyed it.  If food is rare enough into late game, then I agree its not really needed. Farming kills that balance since in vanilla zombies do not destroy crops.   In Starvation mod we added that function, plus crop disease, insects etc., so farming wasn't a ez fix to food as in vanilla.  So its about feature balance.  TFP likes to keep it simple, and that way works well too.

Well - when TFP added tools parts they forced to spend time on looting stuff. Honestly - mining if less effective that before etc. and i know you can do mods and solve problems by that but i think the best option is to left food as it works now

[Matt115]

Hey good news : 7dtd beat cod vanguard on twitch 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Callum123456789]

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Hey good news : 7dtd beat cod vanguard on twitch 

activision deserve for there new cods to die out they just crank em out unfinished broken and boring but on a more positive note thats great hopefully it 7dtd stays on top too

[Matt115]

3 minutes ago, Callum123456789 said:

activision deserve for there new cods to die out they just crank em out unfinished broken and boring but on a more positive note thats great hopefully it 7dtd stays on top too

This sledhammer x ravensoftware fault- activision just made zombie mode  because rest do nothing. So that's why der anfang is so poorly- because lack of time

[Callum123456789]

32 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

This sledhammer x ravensoftware fault- activision just made zombie mode  because rest do nothing. So that's why der anfang is so poorly- because lack of time

treyarch made the zombies im talking about activison because they are scummy publishers and are too busy protecting bad work culture rather than helping their employees

Edited January 2, 2022 by Callum123456789 (see edit history)

[dcsobral]

Miner 69r and Bunker Buster increase the harvesting of... plastic??? That's weird.

[Matt115]

3 minutes ago, Callum123456789 said:

treyarch made the zombies im talking about activison because they are scummy publishers and are too busy protecting bad work culture rather than helping their employees

Well situation there is rly soo compilcated. and tons of drama strange news etc. 

 

Still- damn it is so cool that the 7dtd is more popular that  cod vanguard. 

Please  devs don't do 7dtd warzone please  no!!

 

[Tmodloader]

4 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Well situation there is rly soo compilcated. and tons of drama strange news etc. 

 

Still- damn it is so cool that the 7dtd is more popular that  cod vanguard. 

Please  devs don't do 7dtd warzone please  no!!

 

I can't believe how far COD fell from the early ones. I mean in hindsight it was never spectacular but now it just feels like those Madden sports games that somehow people that don't play many games keep buying and funding. 

 

I have good memories from early CoD, especially zombies up to whatever one had the Moon level.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Tmodloader (see edit history)

[Matt115]

1 minute ago, Tmodloader said:

I can't believe how far COD fell from the early ones. I mean in hindsight it was never spectacular but now it just feels like those Madden sports games that somehow people that don't play many games keep buying and funding. 

 

I have good memories from early CoD, especially zombies.

Well that's happens when managment thing about numbers only not about fun and making good game. 

Shareholders kill games- why? because they want money fast and as much as possible. That's why cyberpunk, bf and cod are so terrible- because shareholders wanted earn not good game

[Tmodloader]

9 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Well that's happens when managment thing about numbers only not about fun and making good game. 

Shareholders kill games- why? because they want money fast and as much as possible. That's why cyberpunk, bf and cod are so terrible- because shareholders wanted earn not good game

I blame this on whoever still buys the games, they shouldn't be profitable with such low quality. If their reputation caused their sales to decline enough, the shareholders would demand a bit more quality.

You are right when I think about it, all the games I like these days are indie, no corporate messes. Looking at a few big private companies like Fromsoftware too which I like. Can't think of a single good public game company, but well, somehow they still have sales and profits. So I guess their method works sadly.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Tmodloader (see edit history)

[Matt115]

3 minutes ago, Tmodloader said:

I blame this on whoever still buys the games, they shouldn't be profitable with such low quality. If their reputation caused their sales to decline enough, the shareholders would demand a bit more quality.

You are right when I think about it, all the games I like these days are indie, no corporate messes.

Well : 1. devs are usually innoces - if  people don't buy the game- they will lose their job. But shareholders will lose only a small amount of cash. 

2. Well  people usually don't know about game quality before release.

So - shareholders destroy every game company. 

I hope TFP will never became INC 

[Tmodloader]

6 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

 

2. Well  people usually don't know about game quality before release.

 

I think we all know what quality we're getting when we buy a game that is rereleased every year, or at least should know.

9 hours ago, Khalagar said:

I play almost nothing but survival games, but I still can't think of a single one where food is relevant past early game, for good reason. Stamina is the same way. It's essentially just a limit on how much fun you are allowed to have before the game says "nuh uh uh, take your hand off the keyboard and stand still for 10 seconds before you can play the game again!" , and usually is mitigated as you progress to a point where you can finally actually play the game without playing the green bar simulator. 

This is the reason why I dislike upgraded tools costing more stamina to use, I never stop using my stone axe.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Tmodloader (see edit history)

[Matt115]

6 minutes ago, Tmodloader said:

I think we all know what quality we're getting when we buy a game that is rereleased every year, or at least should know.

Nope. We know rly a small number of information about campaign and zombie - Well i think nobody expect so bad both mods - japanish soldiers with stg in SP  and  even lack of ray gun in zombies was so unexpected

[Tmodloader]

5 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Nope. We know rly a small number of information about campaign and zombie - Well i think nobody expect so bad both mods - japanish soldiers with stg in SP  and  even lack of ray gun in zombies was so unexpected

I think zombies started getting real bad by BO3 or so. Multiplayer a bit earlier. Campaign I just hadn't had the time to check out but the old stuff was okay. That is a bigger step screw up than usual but I don't think any CoD release has been good for years. 

I guess if TFP ever went corporate, they'd make us pay for every 7dtd alpha lol, or release DLC before the game was released, or suddenly go out of alpha for the PR with the game still broken.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Tmodloader (see edit history)

[Matt115]

6 minutes ago, Tmodloader said:

I think zombies started getting real bad by BO3 or so. Multiplayer a bit earlier. Campaign I just hadn't had the time to check out but the old stuff was okay. That is a bigger step screw up than usual but I don't think any CoD release has been good for years. 

I guess if TFP ever went corporate, they'd make us pay for every 7dtd alpha lol, or release DLC before the game was released, or suddenly go out of alpha for the PR with the game still broken.

Well some games have dlc before  final version  like conan exile. This is so pathologic.

Well idk about gameplay of zombies in cod - i care about lore and setting - i love how gorod krovi or alpha omega- well gameplay can be bad in game but if it have good lore this mean it is good enough

[Slingblade2040]

Any chance of lowering scream spawns when mining with an auger or even the steel pick? I don't mind roaming hordes falling me while I'm mining but the screamer spawn rate is on the annoying side.  

[Laz Man]

On 1/1/2022 at 1:18 PM, Doomofman said:

I reported a bug for it too but because I was using that mod they basically told me to go **** myself. Kinda figured it wasn't the mod's fault though

 

I read your bug report and log.  Actually your NullRef is probably because of your xui mod.  Also the QA rep. Referred you to the mod author for help.  Did the mod author tell you otherwise?

 

1. NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
2. at XUi_FallThrough.Update () [0x00031] in <2ba1bc1bbbe64fe49f53fe5235fb7038>:0

Edited January 2, 2022 by Laz Man (see edit history)

[Matt115]

Just now, Laz Man said:

 

I read your bug report and log.  Actually your NullRef is probably because of your xui mod.  Also the QA rep. Referred you to then mod author for help.  Did the mod author tell you otherwise?

 

1. NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
2. at XUi_FallThrough.Update () [0x00031] in <2ba1bc1bbbe64fe49f53fe5235fb7038>:0

Are people offten so rude?  you have hard work with them laz man

[Laz Man]

@Doomofman

 

I found your inquiry to Khaine here.  

 

 

Just because he says it works for him and others that doesn't automatically mean its not a mod issue.  The error you are getting is definitely a XUI error which tells me its probably related.

 

My best advice to you is to disable/remove the mod, revalidate your files and retest. 

 

If you continue to get the errors with the mod disabled, then repost your new output log in your bug report so we can continue investigating the issue.

 

If it only happens with the mod enabled, then it is definitely an issue with it or how you are installing the mod.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Laz Man (see edit history)

[MechanicalLens]

31 minutes ago, Tmodloader said:

I think zombies started getting real bad by BO3 or so. Multiplayer a bit earlier. Campaign I just hadn't had the time to check out but the old stuff was okay. That is a bigger step screw up than usual but I don't think any CoD release has been good for years. 

I guess if TFP ever went corporate, they'd make us pay for every 7dtd alpha lol, or release DLC before the game was released, or suddenly go out of alpha for the PR with the game still broken.

 

Not to mention NFT's. 😜

[RhinoW]

Just wanted to write down saying that farming is insanely poorly designed. Usually a farm means extra produce of something, in which the yield is profitable. That is not the case with 7 days, unless you have Living off the land....TIER 2! And even then, it's a 50% chance for the farm to literally work like it's supposed to.

Let's take potatoes as a variable for the example:

- Use 5 potatoes to craft 1 seed
- Waste resources into a farm plot
- Put the seed on the plot and wait (no way to speed up the process now as far as I'm aware)
- Harvest the seed to get 5 potatoes.
- Use all 5 to craft 1 seed and literally get nothing at all in theory

So, unless you find a seed (=5 potatoes), or until you get LOTL Tier2+, your farm is by all means, a waste of resources.

Who designed this? What is the point of having a secondary rather major mechanic, only be usable with an UPGRADED perk.

[Doomofman]

30 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

@Doomofman

 

I found your inquiry to Khaine here.  

 

 

Just because he says it works for him and others that doesn't automatically mean its not a mod issue.  The error you are getting is definitely a XUI error which tells me its probably related.

 

My best advice to you is to disable/remove the mod, revalidate your files and retest. 

 

If you continue to get the errors with the mod disabled, then repost your new output log in your bug report so we can continue investigating the issue.

 

If it only happens with the mod enabled, then it is definitely an issue with it or how you are installing the mod.

 

 

 

The impression I got from the response to my bug was "You're using a mod, we're not going to look at this" rather than "it looks like this issue is caused by the mod" which is why I considered the response being fobbed off by QA,

 

I have since done a fresh install of both 7D2D and the modlet and didn't run into the issue in a couple of long sessions.

 

So maybe it was the mod? But if someone else got a similar situation without mods would suggest something else went wrong.