Alpha 18 feedback and balancing thread

[iamnuff]

Honestly, I never liked the hoe. It never worked right and the hit-detection was completely borked.

Trying to till in straight lines was a huge pain in the ass.

 

I'd rather farmplots just be made out of 'Forestground' or something, instead of needing all of this meat, but... it's acceptable.

Might be because I spawned near Bob's Boars in two seperate games, so I've been full up on rotten meat since day one.

Tons of corpses in the basement, tons of animals in cages and even more bodies in Gracie's pen.

[White-Gandalf]

@Weazelsun: Not at all (being the opposite). I think there was not a single player criticizing the farm system in the older alphas. It was absolutely logical and consistent (except the technical problem with growth timers going corrupt in mid game). I never heard of someone nagging about that farming.

 

For myself, i modded fertilizer bonuses into trees growth in A15 and A17, which made it even more systematically and consistent. It was nothing than fun.

 

To maximize that with an additional fertilizer tier concept would in no way contradict that system. I do not think that giving bonuses as the result of building (instead of only giving them for investment of skill points) is a bad idea. But i realize that the funpimps are strictly against that at the moment. Sadly.

[Laz Man]

At first, the new weapon skill trees were somewhat annoying, because i went into them with predefined goals stemming from previous alphas.

 

After the first short playthrough, i took a break, only visiting youtubers like Games4Kicks for a while. Those ,too, initially had some trouble adapting to the new weapon skills.

 

But then they developed adaptions to their playstyle fitting their chosen "build style". And i saw even things like the spear - and even without any perks - being usable in "insane/always run".

 

Of course, all those adaptions with no exception are a kind of misuse of AI constants. They will always be. They are forced to be, because obviously, the game goes about enemies being stronger than the player, have more life points than the player, be faster than the player (at least at night and if you want to have that challenge) and come in multiples per player.

 

There will never be a way where you can take zombies like human counterparts. If you set one human against multiple humans with those advantages like the zombies, the single human will inevitably fail very quickly.

 

So, please, funpimps, DO NOT again fight those adaption techniques! Like you did up to date. Misusing AI constants is the one and only type of counteraction against an AI enemy that otherwise has one to three decades of advantages. It is the innermost principle of playing this type of game: You search the AI you encounter for weaknesses, including making use of your surroundings or altering them, and use those weaknesses rigorously to your advantage.

 

==============

 

That said, i consider the new weapons skills an interesting new option.

 

Not sure what specifics AI constants you are referring to. However, I would fully expect the devs to fix/adjust any AI exploit that gives the player a significant advantage with little effort/risk (e.g. loop bases, etc.).

[Laz Man]

@Weazelsun: Not at all (being the opposite). I think there was not a single player criticizing the farm system in the older alphas. It was absolutely logical and consistent (except the technical problem with growth timers going corrupt in mid game). I never heard of someone nagging about that farming.

 

For myself, i modded fertilizer bonuses into trees growth in A15 and A17, which made it even more systematically and consistent. It was nothing than fun.

 

To maximize that with an additional fertilizer tier concept would in no way contradict that system. I do not think that giving bonuses as the result of building (instead of only giving them for investment of skill points) is a bad idea. But i realize that the funpimps are strictly against that at the moment. Sadly.

 

In easy balance fix imo is allow seeds on dirt again but make the growth time long as hell and/or yield have a chance at nothing. That way, you can still plant seeds (immersion) but not break the balance of food survival by giving players super farms in week 1.

[meganoth]

At least he's not claiming that mines can be disarmed with a wrench.

 

I don't know what you are talking about. Mine-wrenching is valuable insider knowledge someone like Gazz would never part with. Only a kind and sympathetic soul, a samaritan who wants to help people would give out such information.

[Gazz]

It's always been about the QL of the wrench. Players just try it with the first they find and decide it doesn't work. /shrug

[RipClaw]

Honestly, I never liked the hoe. It never worked right and the hit-detection was completely borked.

Trying to till in straight lines was a huge pain in the ass.

 

I'd rather farmplots just be made out of 'Forestground' or something, instead of needing all of this meat, but... it's acceptable.

Might be because I spawned near Bob's Boars in two seperate games, so I've been full up on rotten meat since day one.

Tons of corpses in the basement, tons of animals in cages and even more bodies in Gracie's pen.

 

I wasn't that lucky. It took me until the third week to find a Bob's Boars. My main sources of rotten meat were dogs, vultures and most of all roadkills. It is very tedious to stop at each roadkill and pick it up.

 

I'm afraid this grinding aspect will keep players from creating a garden. I can still hear players complaining that they had to harvest the zombie corpses in A16 after the horde. Collecting the roadkills is basically the same.

[meganoth]

@Weazelsun: Not at all (being the opposite). I think there was not a single player criticizing the farm system in the older alphas. It was absolutely logical and consistent (except the technical problem with growth timers going corrupt in mid game). I never heard of someone nagging about that farming.

 

For myself, i modded fertilizer bonuses into trees growth in A15 and A17, which made it even more systematically and consistent. It was nothing than fun.

 

To maximize that with an additional fertilizer tier concept would in no way contradict that system. I do not think that giving bonuses as the result of building (instead of only giving them for investment of skill points) is a bad idea. But i realize that the funpimps are strictly against that at the moment. Sadly.

 

Correction: There were players including myself critizising the exponential growth curve of farming in previous alphas. I also think many people were a bit unhappy about the hit detection of tilling but I assume everyone thought this could be corrected in beta

 

The plots were a TFP internal feature that seems to have been given the thumbs up by all developers and internal testers. So they rolled it out.

[ZombieSurvivor]

People were saying how ugly the game was when it was foggy and some people would get stuck on fog until they logged out, so I removed it for now until we can get a better weather system and our fog is buggy anyway with alpha sorting so we're hiding our bugs for now.

 

Fog is still turned on. I'm playing the latest exp build and today fog rolled in. It stayed on for like 2 hours (real time) . I logged out but have not logged back in yet to see if it is gone.

 

EDIT: agreed fog makes the game look horrible. Everything looks like gamma is maxed out.

 

EDIT2: Fog rolled in the forest biome. Noticed u guys were talking about burnt forrest.

[madmole]

This is exactly what I've been saying. In the current skill tree, TFP have tried really hard to balance each branch into playable classes (and done a decent job), but why? It's constricting, and doesn't feel very sandboxy to have these preset classes.

 

Unless you are one of the lucky ones who happens to like all of the perks and weapons in one branch, you are going to constantly feel like you are wasting points when you want the perks from one tree, and the weapons from another.

 

It adds replay value and the game can feel completely different playing a new build, and its a choice. I don't ever feel like I am wasting points, I go with the builds as designed for the weapon I want to use, then grab a few ranks of other perks I want and it is good enough to get by.

[madmole]

Anyone else is experiencing heavy FPS drops in new a 18.1 b7 version? I am playing with my two friends on the server. Outside FPS is around 40, inside up to 60, but from yesterdays update there are drops down to 1-3 FPS sometimes, which is unplayable. I have not tested singleplayer yet so it can be some problem with sync in multiplayer game.

I think there is a MF ticket for something causing slow FPS.

[madmole]

Hi @mm and @gazz

 

when your are deciding on balance issues, is it for just one set of settings?

or do you consider balance from different perspectives and maintain multiple sets of settings.

maybe like 1 for single player, 1 for coop and 1 for pvp?

 

i dont think i would like a balance that suits multiplayer, especially pvp.

 

i love the game but dont play too much (its spring and the garden went mental) but i wonder how anyone can be an expert on balance on a game like this. from what i have seen, it is the elements of the game that swing to be favourable (or not), and its the specific mixture of these elements that are swinging one way or another that set the flavour for the game.

if that suits your game style, or the story you are playing thru in your head (or task you want to achieve) then the game seems easy.

if it goes against your modus operandi, then it is a struggle.

i would imagine most are in the middle.

 

as some poor sole above with the lack of pistols. if he wanted top specialise in pistols, then that would really suck.

last night i scrapped about 10, and i use a pistol. (do have an auto turret recipe that needs handgun parts he he)

 

so, of the 5 or 6 a18 games i have started and played, honestly they are all so different, it is hard to pick a favourite.

i suppose what is interesting is i am actually curious to see how the game plays differently from the game style i have been settled on for years. decades actually. never liked hitting games. punching zombies rocks!

 

sorry - rambling. i suppose the crux of the post is (to quote myself)

"i dont think i would like a balance that suits multiplayer, especially pvp."

 

now where did that vodka bottle go...

 

We balance for sp and coop, pvp might end up getting xml overrides at some point, we're not focused on it yet.

[madmole]

Somewhat annoying (one of the first things i modded, like in every alpha so far) are inconsistencies within the building block system.

 

Only a pitiful little bunch of blocks in the rebar class - like in all previous alphas - in contrast to a somewhat much bigger variety in the wood frame class, topped by a nearly complete variety in the flagstone and concrete class.

 

But still, even the latter are lacking a bunch of available shapes like 3 meters arch. And the quarter block seems to be gone - except for developers. And the poles and plates have exceptions - but only in wood. Perfect consistency, to say it sarcastically.

 

Like in every alpha before, i am forced to make a lot of modifications to fit my building needs. I usually provide all and every usable shape in wood frames and in rebar frames, as well as in flagstones. No game balance at all is touched by these complements, only the fun factor for building. Your name was "funpimps", right? Take a break to think about it!

 

================

 

That said, the new helper block system is a very comfortable step in the direction of actual fun. Even the fact that different stacks of the same helper block keep their differently set shapes. Well done, that part!

 

We don't want to add all those blocks the hard way when we have an easy way planned in the future.

[madmole]

Correction: There were players including myself critizising the exponential growth curve of farming in previous alphas. I also think many people were a bit unhappy about the hit detection of tilling but I assume everyone thought this could be corrected in beta

 

The plots were a TFP internal feature that seems to have been given the thumbs up by all developers and internal testers. So they rolled it out.

 

Yes there were all these requests for food spoilage when the crux of the problem was balance. We solved it. Plus the new terrain shader required texture cuts, so fertilzed farm ground was the first to go. Usability of the hoe, planting and harvesting on dirt was horrible and the tool tip for farming was way too complex. All these issues were shored up nicely with farm boxes. We left the hoe in the resources people can mod the old stuff back in if they want.

 

I role play that the soil is contaminated and you have to dig down deep below the radiation to get viable farm soil and put it in a farm box because if one contaminated rabbit nibbles on it, it will get you contaminated, or the soil itself contaminates the crops so the boxes are a preventative measure.

 

Its really just old guys wanting their sharp sticks or LBD. New customers get it and like it.

[Nemoriel]

Any plans on sharing XP on traps? Atm one of us sits +20 levels above the rest because he placed down the traps and the XP don't share. We ended up redsigning our base so we could kill them instead of passive traps, which only gave one player XP.

[joshwa0816]

I think there is a MF ticket for something causing slow FPS.

 

I hope this is true, 4 of us stopped playing today because its killed us a few too many times. From a18 stable with all the same settings on a new map to 18.1 was a massive difference in FPS. I have turned all my settings turned down to low now except textures at half, also AF forced to off in Nvidia panel and still getting fps drops for no reason. Few zombies in the open. Looking at the ground. Looking at the sky. Nothing helps. Wish this hadn't been pushed out yet.

 

i5 8400

RTX 2060

Samsung 960 evo m.2 SSD [60% full]

20GB Ddr4

[Hollowprime]

The game devours 8 gb of ram like it's nothing , hangs when trying to alt tab . It jumps from 70 fps to 20,sometimes will hang up for multiple seconds and then go back at a normal 60 fps. This usually happens when you try to craft many things or are holding a lot of items in the inventory. I can also always understand when there is a zombie horde coming my way because the game hangs up for a couple of seconds.

 

Are you familiar with memory leak issues? They are clearly plaguing your game.

[agrastiOs]

I hope this is true, 4 of us stopped playing today because its killed us a few too many times. From a18 stable with all the same settings on a new map to 18.1 was a massive difference in FPS. I have turned all my settings turned down to low now except textures at half, also AF forced to off in Nvidia panel and still getting fps drops for no reason. Few zombies in the open. Looking at the ground. Looking at the sky. Nothing helps. Wish this hadn't been pushed out yet.

 

i5 8400

RTX 2060

Samsung 960 evo m.2 SSD [60% full]

20GB Ddr4

 

Now fixed. They just released a hotfix.

[Laz Man]

Now fixed. They just released a hotfix.

 

Fix:

Player names causing FPS drop

 

I'm curious what names are impacted...perhaps names such as "Rolland" "Guppy"....etc. lol

[custom_hero]

MM can you answer? will you add fov back to game settings?

[Freshzombie]

Possible bugs:

 

-Forge smetling can sometimes causes fps to stutters. The fps problem disappeared when I (1) turn off the forge, (2) leave far away from the smelting forges. However, it continues to come back if I stand around the forges.

 

-Vehicle duplicates.

I drove my truck to go explore some poi.

I died 1km away from my base. Hop on my motorcycle to get my stuff pick up.

I put the motorcycle back into my inventory. Drove my truck back home. I SEE my motorcycle located right infront of my base. (With more gas, than the motorcycle I have in my bag)

So now I have 1 free motorcycle.

It is a nice bug to have lol.

 

-character ragdoll when getting on or off vehicle. Not sure if it was intentional.

I was running away from 20 zombies and trying to get on my truck to escape. The truck caused me to fall flat onto the ground and before i was able to get up, i got obliterated. While zombies were having their finest breakfast, the breakfast at heaven sure wasn't as great as I expected.

 

-zombies could squeeze through the door sometimes. I had a v3 door on horde night, and occasionally, one or two zombies could squeeze themselves through the door.

This occurred when there are massive of zeds.

Or maybe because i was using explosives, which blew them into the door. (The door was shut though)

[madmole]

Any plans on sharing XP on traps? Atm one of us sits +20 levels above the rest because he placed down the traps and the XP don't share. We ended up redsigning our base so we could kill them instead of passive traps, which only gave one player XP.

 

We've been talking about it.

[madmole]

MM can you answer? will you add fov back to game settings?

 

I'll go with no for now, and might add it later if we get performance improved.

[raowyn]

pros

1. It's been fantastic seeing zombies actually pathfind into my base!

2. power attacks are fun

3. thank you for adding so many server options to customize gameplay experience.

4. thank you for the new stealth system from the bottom of my heart

 

cons

1. Agility needs a perk for increasing strafe/backpedal speed for more agile melee combat.

2. cop zombie explosion is too damaging

3. Can zombie vultures please give an attack cry? They're too quiet...

4. melee sneak attacks seem almost unacheivable (dark, no armor, not stepping on noise-makers, 4/5 sneakiness perk)

5. I wish stealth was somehow useful during hoard night.

[custom_hero]

I play a lot. After many hours of play, I saw that the game has a lot of stone, clay, glass jars (these are resources that I don’t specifically mine, they accumulate themself),

gas (they are easy to mine and craft, you can reduce production)

 

these things quickly become useless.

 

From the first minute of the game, I start throwing out empty glass jars; I am tired of doing this for 1000 hours. They start to be caught from the first minute of the game.

 

glass jars can be replaced with something more universal. For example a plastic bottle. From it you can craft 1) a bottle of water 2) food 3) make glue, 4) burn in the forge as fuel 5) get plastic from them.

 

Glass jar is useless

 

in store brass is more expensive than bullet casings