Alpha 18 feedback and balancing thread

[Guest Piratenking]

Lmao the hell is your deal man? If your power is that bad you constantly lose power, you should be complaining to your ELECTRIC COMPANY, not madmole lmao. If your power goes out while any game is saving a file, that file is gone. That's even bad for your OS and your computer and the rest of your electronics, this IS a you issue.

 

i never blamed anyone for this, nor the game nor MM, but i believe this is a must in any offline game, be it for me and my electric problems or for any other player/reason, so please lets move on, there is no benefit in dragging this any further.

[Bashtiks]

From your explanation, I understand that you've tried to balance each branch (perspective, intelligence, etc) of the tree into specific classes, but in practise, this is frustrating for people who want to straddle those branches to create a custom build to suit their play style. For example, I want certain perks under the strength tree, but in order to get them, I find myself having to put points into strength which benefits unarmed combat (which I don't want). I feel I'm wasting points, which is something we shouldn't have to feel in a game like this.

 

People are constantly arguing about what type of game (crafting, building, looter shooter etc) it should be predominantly, but it's a multifacted sandbox game, that should cater to all playstyles instead of pigeon-holed class builds.

With the above format people could spec into multiple branches depending on their interests, without feeling like they are wasting points.

 

I agree with this.

But must say ima not a big fan of new system.

So thats way I like previous a16 lvling system more - the more you do something the more skilled you get in something and I dint have this feeling that Im wasting points on different skill trees just to get few perks like now .. it needed some tweaks here and there but overall was very enjoyable ... but if ima correct devs already mentioned thet they will never go back to it again so yeaah ...

Well you still have a freedom to choose, kind of ... , but its still feels forced with 5 classes to choose from like in some fantasy rpg game and still need to spec in different skill trees .. :/

Yes you can lvl up even more but I am playing on mp server with 300% exp and after lvl 90 it is getting rly rly rly grindy game ... yes back in a16 lvl also got harder in higher lvls but at least there was a chance to do some note questing for skill points

 

Well in the end the whole system is changed and thats that .. if devs are choosing to go different way thats their choice

Im playing this game but theres alot of frustation about a lot of things and despite all the new stuff added I kind of enjoy this game way less then before

[madmole]

I hate to say it but I think murky water stacks are OP, I think they stack up to 125? I remember hitting up the toilet store and having enough murky water to last me weeks. At that frequency I dont even bother picking up empty bottles or regular water which stacks only up to 10.

 

Edit: nice to meet another fellow toilet whore. *fist pump* lol

 

Its a resource or at best an undesirable drink, so resources have high stack sizes.

[madmole]

Those changes coming in A18 or A19?

 

Probably 18, but I don't know for sure.

[madmole]

Maybe you could tie game stage addition to game difficulty, or give us a separate "Game stage multiplier" option that controls how fast it ramps up and how much each extra player contributes to the total gamestage. Perhaps you could give game stage some geographic properties so that gamestage from each player is only added when they're in close proximity?

 

 

 

This would be lovely because I find that 50% loot multiplier is excellent for emphasizing the survival aspect of the game. At 100%, or even 75% I'm always swimming in everything I ever need, especially food. I sure would love if we could have specific loot multipliers for categories of items.

 

The only problem is that at 50%, you get a lot of special containers (shipping crates, locked crates, safes, etc..) that are totally empty. I don't suppose you could make a change so that those containers always have a reward even at 25% multiplier? Just scaling it down so you at least get a single gun part, a few bullets, some food, raw materials, etc..

 

Game stage does tie to difficulty. We're leaning on making the default about 80% loot since its kind of abundant now.

[madmole]

Hi MM. I could have swore that you said the game would take the person with the highest GS for the calculation, unless I dreamt that or that was in regards to loot only. 😂

 

That is how loot gamestage works, but actual game stage for enemies is a complicated thing I don't even understand myself, but it will be higher than the highest guy's GS for sure and the more people the higher. Its probably ramps up a bit too fast, but people playing on two hour days make it harder for them to get a decent progression.

[madmole]

I am not sure we even need toilet water (not in every toilet maybe) with lakes etc you can fill up stacks of jars its never a problem now.

 

 

Also may I ask MM regarding zombies ie SPIDER zombies and Dogs, can they be set to be able to enter and go through one block spaces and even jump between two blocks as I am seeing many a base with big wide gaps and these zombies at least should be getting through with ease but cant due to block detection I guess.

 

Dogs for sure are supposed to get through a 1 meter space.

[madmole]

Look didn't mean to get you triggered there. The way I'm seeing it is that fortitude has Iron Gut which increases buff duration and reduces chance of debuff, Regeneration, and Heavy Armor. Seems a bit OP. You wanted feedback and I'm giving it.

 

That is fine, I've only answered it in detail about 5 times already and figured you are kind of a regular and would have known my position about it by now, but nobody has thought about this for 500 hours like I have. The design is solid. You want maximum survival? Go with fortitude. You want to swing a huge sledgehammer and heavy pickaxe all day you need strength and have to eat way more than any other character. I juggled that spreadsheet for weeks thinking everything through and they all play pretty good IMO.

 

Its not that your ideas are way off base, I could re-arrange the perk trees 10 times and come up with something pretty damn good each time but I feel like its 95% there and we have a pretty happy community right now, and big changes tend to upset people so unless something is fubar we're not changing it.

 

I don't see heavy armor perks as must have at all, with mods and the right books mobility is no issue.

[madmole]

Well, I hope some of my 2 cents was useful.

 

Best articulated feedback of all time. Thanks!

[madmole]

I have a decent high-pop server and I've gathered a few wave-top observations for balancing a18. For reference, we're currently in the stable build. Overall the vast majority of the game is great and my server is busier than it's been in years. Really good job, Pimps.

 

- Quests are fun, but it's killing us that they fail if you leave the area or log off. Not sure if this can be addressed.

- It's really odd that you get sick from canned food, not home cooked meals. Punctured/dented cans can introduce bacteria into the contents, the liining can fail (which is why they have experiation dates) and all sorts of things.

- With the books back (yay!!!) and player economies booming, is there a way to have vending machines list what was sold? It's usually a guessing game.

 

We can add food poisoning to everything if that makes you happy

[madmole]

Anyone else feel the Water Purification Mod is completely useless? I think it could be removed to save that asset for something else. Or grant the same buff the purified water gives. Or, turn it into something that crafts bottles of purified water.

 

It could purify food too.

[madmole]

Hi MM, what determines rocket launcher quality? Demolitions expert? It's not clear from the description of the perk or the rocket launcher information. Thanks!

 

Yes.

[Jugginator]

Dogs for sure are supposed to get through a 1 meter space.

 

I've seen a lot of dog/spiders both hit a block when there's a gap 1 block above them and attack a block 1 above a 1 block gap instead of going through them. Sometimes they do go though, but less often than aforementioned scenarios.

 

It could purify food too.

 

Lol true, be a bit funny. "This mod purifies water sources or liquifies and purifies your food!"

[madmole]

Just my opinion, but I think zombie bears should be the jackpot for rotten flesh. I typically get 6 or 7 off of them. Would help with making plots.

 

Yes I think we never scaled it to the more granular meat amounts, it will be 50 like a bear's meat drop.

[madmole]

One thing we discovered on our new playthrough is that the multiplier is proximity based. One a horde night, if you aren't anywhere near other players, it doesn't multiply the gamestage.

 

As a workaround, we are all playing sp on our mp server.. everyone just doing their own thing.

 

I suggested that maybe a mp game setting with a gamestage multiplier slider with lower and higher settings than vanilla might be a good solution, and also offer another player option.

 

I'd like to just get a nice default if we can. We can always add a slider or it can be modded later.

[madmole]

he made the same assumption because he read your assumption (reminds me of how trump got elected as president), and that detail is irrelevant as far as the improvement of the game goes, if you have insufficient information about something how about asking?

 

No I didn't. Weather your feet kick the cord out when you rage quit, or the power company is crap, its not a problem we can prioritize. It might have been better for me to just say, Sure, we'd love to implement a backup someday but I want you to know that you were being a jerk about the whole thing droping f bombs, so that isn't how you open up a request, and I offered a reasonable strategy and so did the other guys you verbally attacked. Even if 5000 people were complaining about this we'd still stick to our road map because its just BS to yell at us because your power went out.

[rdunham3]

You are not seriously suggesting that having every player in 7 days to die buy a UPC battery backup makes more sense than coding the game to make a back up file, are you??

 

It's a good idea, actually, and I have them in my house even though we have stable power. Prevents surges and possible corruption when the power does blink.

 

As for why not have backups in 7DtD, have you seen the size of the worlds on disk? Not insignificant, and making a copy could make for a long in-game lag which you would also likely complain about. Manually back up a world every now and then if you want.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Sorry Madmole, I have to agree with him wholeheartedly. The way things are in Alpha 18 already prevent your scenario from happening. If I remember right, it took 15-17 parts to make a single L6 item. So for a team of 4, this would take 60+ parts per character slot to craft a single L6 item for all 4. Considering I was having a difficult time getting my crafted L6's to match or exceed the L3 or L4 looted items I already had, it is very unlikely that min maxed character will be able to get access to that many parts and that he will magically craft top tier L6 items on his first try.

 

+1, spot on.

[Laz Man]

I think what the spear lacks in damage, it gains in reach. I will take the longer reach over the damage any day.

 

Agreed!!!

[madmole]

My ego is irrelevant for the game as i am not being paid to be the representative of the effort put into a game by a whole team, i dont have a position of responsability neither my job is as important as to objectively analyse feedback to improve the game.

 

You are not seriously suggesting that having every player in 7 days to die buy a UPC battery backup makes more sense than coding the game to make a back up file, are you?? (as 90% of the offline games in many genres do, civilization V, subnautica, oxygen not included, etc etc etc ) you forget the game is in alpha state, it can and should be improved upon not only in the content part but also in the technical aspects, if a situation like this arises how is blaming me, calling me a whiner, and telling me to look for solutions an improvement for the game?? how is that a professional attitude? i can understand that type of behaviour from other community members not from a game's representative.

 

that said my point has been made and i hope for the sake of other people with the same problem that they improve upon this, i wont be here to see it but i hope it helps other people not quiting this nice game that gave me so much fun.

 

Then be nice about it. You came storming in here dropping f bombs and being a total jerk. I'm not paid to do anything I am an owner. Be nice and I'll be nice back. Its that simple.

[vonstorm]

Might get in trouble for this, but Im getting the feeling that zombie wakefulness is a little weak? After I get a little established I dont sneak and use 9mm or shotgun. I can kill in one room and get sleeping Zs in the next. Is this by design or is it going to be tweaked at some point? Reason Im asking is that although I like to play stealth the trade off isnt as massive if the zombies are kind of dozey anyway.

[Lorca]

<snip>

I find myself having to put points into strength which benefits unarmed combat (which I don't want). I feel I'm wasting points, which is something we shouldn't have to feel in a game like this.

<snip>

I think you mean 'fortitude', not strength. Fortitude is the one that's for fists and machine guns, but yeah I get what saying. Had a couple of those scenarios where I was thinking my points were going to waste.

 

Still a good system though. I'd play the hell out of yours too. Maybe make a mod?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Might get in trouble for this, but Im getting the feeling that zombie wakefulness is a little weak? After I get a little established I dont sneak and use 9mm or shotgun. I can kill in one room and get sleeping Zs in the next. Is this by design or is it going to be tweaked at some point? Reason Im asking is that although I like to play stealth the trade off isnt as massive if the zombies are kind of dozey anyway.

 

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh, they will make them 'light sleepers' if you say such things.

[madmole]

@madmole, I've noticed that upon installing a Serrated Blade mod into my steel knuckles the effects of said mod which is "10% chance to cause a Bleeding Wound on a regular attack", does indeed proc. I don't know if that is intended or not, but I like it. What do you think of having the effects of Deep Cuts also affect the iron spear, steel spear, and steel knuckles? Since in-game model indicates they have blades on them.

 

Deep cuts is exclusive to the weapons you can craft with it.

[Jugginator]

I suppose this has been something I've noticed in the past runs through the 2nd experimental build: meat quickly becomes over adbundant.

 

I really don't have any ideas on how to cull this without pissing off people but I do kinda miss the feeling of struggle to find food to not starve to death. In my last run, I haven't had food poisioning ever, not sure if you guys changed something about it. Idk, prob something I should just mod myself lol, but I'm on day 18ish and I've got about 5 stacks of meat.

[madmole]

I've seen a lot of dog/spiders both hit a block when there's a gap 1 block above them and attack a block 1 above a 1 block gap instead of going through them. Sometimes they do go though, but less often than aforementioned scenarios.

 

 

 

Lol true, be a bit funny. "This mod purifies water sources or liquifies and purifies your food!"

 

Turns it into robocop baby food paste lol.

[madmole]

Might get in trouble for this, but Im getting the feeling that zombie wakefulness is a little weak? After I get a little established I dont sneak and use 9mm or shotgun. I can kill in one room and get sleeping Zs in the next. Is this by design or is it going to be tweaked at some point? Reason Im asking is that although I like to play stealth the trade off isnt as massive if the zombies are kind of dozey anyway.

 

It needs more balance.