Alpha 18 feedback and balancing thread

[Laz Man]

I added some wildlife and um... unlife to the burnt forest. Dogs to be specific.

 

Had a weird Hunger Games moment from this comment....lol

 

[Aldranon]

Casual player here, I have a level 4 green Sledge hammer with mods. I have perked into stamina/hammer related tree's and can smash most zombies with one primary hit. I can annihilate anything in front of me (up to now) with secondary hit.

 

Why would I need anything higher and what would the benefits be exactly to pursue/craft better ?

 

Well, any melee weapon can kill a few zombies. Its when 5-10 zombies hit you at once, is when your stamina zeros out.

When late game fast movers are always showing up, is when you will see the problem with only melee.

 

Clear the Shotgun Messiah HQ late game and I will be impressed.

[NukemDed]

Hi @mm and @gazz

 

when your are deciding on balance issues, is it for just one set of settings?

or do you consider balance from different perspectives and maintain multiple sets of settings.

maybe like 1 for single player, 1 for coop and 1 for pvp?

 

i dont think i would like a balance that suits multiplayer, especially pvp.

 

i love the game but dont play too much (its spring and the garden went mental) but i wonder how anyone can be an expert on balance on a game like this. from what i have seen, it is the elements of the game that swing to be favourable (or not), and its the specific mixture of these elements that are swinging one way or another that set the flavour for the game.

if that suits your game style, or the story you are playing thru in your head (or task you want to achieve) then the game seems easy.

if it goes against your modus operandi, then it is a struggle.

i would imagine most are in the middle.

 

as some poor sole above with the lack of pistols. if he wanted top specialise in pistols, then that would really suck.

last night i scrapped about 10, and i use a pistol. (do have an auto turret recipe that needs handgun parts he he)

 

so, of the 5 or 6 a18 games i have started and played, honestly they are all so different, it is hard to pick a favourite.

i suppose what is interesting is i am actually curious to see how the game plays differently from the game style i have been settled on for years. decades actually. never liked hitting games. punching zombies rocks!

 

sorry - rambling. i suppose the crux of the post is (to quote myself)

"i dont think i would like a balance that suits multiplayer, especially pvp."

 

now where did that vodka bottle go...

[Marinxar]

I added some wildlife and um... unlife to the burnt forest. Dogs to be specific.

 

Ahhh ovely I play in the burnt biome, as it's a unpopular biome, which means more loot for me

 

One thing though....is it at all possible to bring back crafting of different dirt types ? Although I like playing in the burnt forest, I would LOVE to be able to grow a nice green lawn around my base.... #picnicsinburntbiomemakesmyblankysmell

[Jay_ombie]

Well, any melee weapon can kill a few zombies. Its when 5-10 zombies hit you at once, is when your stamina zeros out.

When late game fast movers are always showing up, is when you will see the problem with only melee.

 

Clear the Shotgun Messiah HQ late game and I will be impressed.

 

Yeahhh for crowd control it will be a challenge, I can but imagine. Up to now I been playing the single file game and funnelling my zombie friends into an orderly line of receptive pain.

 

It’s very therapeutic pummelling them with a sledge I must say.

[Weazelsun]

I wonder, if the other skill trees should get their own variant melee weapons? Like I saw up in the others of one talking about swords and knives. I personally would like to see where it could possible go. Imagine the agility having two unique perk trees one for knives and the other for swords. Knives would work as they are basically up-close and with the bleeds but instead with more critical hits. While a sword goes with increased decapitation. Possible tier for swords could be wooden/ bokken sword [Japanese training sword] (starter - made with wood + cloth), machete or bolo (mid - made with forged iron + leather), kukri (end - made with forged steel + leather).

 

Fortitude other unique melee weapon could be improvised gloves. Law enforcement has SAP gloves which has steel shot embedded into the knuckles. These gloves would use more stamina and have slower rate, but would deal more damage compared to the knuckles. Possible tier could be padded/improvised gloves (starter - made with cloth + leather), boxing gloves (mid - made with leather + forged iron + cloth), SAP gloves (end - made with leather + forged steel + cloth).

 

As for perception... I'm thinking splitting the spears into two distinct classes. With the default being the short spear. So, it'll still be a good starter weapon, but if a player wants even more range. They spec in the long spear, which would have double the range of the default spear as it is in-game. Or instead of that, have a javelin skill tree, since the spears can be thrown to give variety to how a perception player wants to play.

 

They could focus on the spear tree for in general melee combat using the basic attacks or go into the javelin tree if they want to focus more on the power attacks. Though, Wikipedia on harpoons says that apparently explosive harpoons were tested. So, maybe explosive harpoons for the perception tree instead of javelins and long spears?

[Dreed]

Anyone else is experiencing heavy FPS drops in new a 18.1 b7 version? I am playing with my two friends on the server. Outside FPS is around 40, inside up to 60, but from yesterdays update there are drops down to 1-3 FPS sometimes, which is unplayable. I have not tested singleplayer yet so it can be some problem with sync in multiplayer game.

[Marinxar]

Anyone else is experiencing heavy FPS drops in new a 18.1 b7 version? I am playing with my two friends on the server. Outside FPS is around 40, inside up to 60, but from yesterdays update there are drops down to 1-3 FPS sometimes, which is unplayable. I have not tested singleplayer yet so it can be some problem with sync in multiplayer game.

 

Weird... I came here to report exactly the opposite.

 

The new build runs great, and others on our server said the same. I even raised my texture size and resolution, and still running smoother than before.

 

Running on Gameservers, and personal PC is AMD based ( CPU and GPU ). Perhaps that is the difference.

 

Nevermind : OP was unclear on circumstances. FPS drops occur when you are in party, and leave close proximity. The build in general runs way better than anything since A15

[mr.natural]

Anyone else is experiencing heavy FPS drops in new a 18.1 b7 version? I am playing with my two friends on the server. Outside FPS is around 40, inside up to 60, but from yesterdays update there are drops down to 1-3 FPS sometimes, which is unplayable. I have not tested singleplayer yet so it can be some problem with sync in multiplayer game.

 

lots of reports about it: https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?134083-A18-1-b7-stable-bug-report-thread

MP only.

[Fuffel]

Hello.

 

Is there possibly the opportunity to open another feedback and balancing thread in which can be written in German? The German Community is certainly not the smallest and also has tons of feedback on the lips, which they do not get it addressed here because many of the players lack the necessary English skills to accurately translate their feedback.

 

It would be really great if that is possible.

[RichyYoung]

Im really liking alpha 18, the horde night is a lot more unpredictable and reliable to go all night. the poi's are so much better and varied. the missions are good. i find that each day theres so much to do. it is a good job verses a17. with regards FPS yes i had to drop down to medium on a 7700k i7 with 1070 graphics card and 16gb ram. I prefer to have the better frame rate other wise you cant hit anything.

 

i think my only gripe might be skill tree, i find it a little annoying that if you go strength for the good of the team you can only use shotguns. I went perception and was forced to put points into spear which quite frankly isnt as good as bow and arrow or crossbow for keeping zombies out of arms length because early game your are pretty weak. infact our guy with intellect and turrets had zero deaths. so he was pretty happy with being gated it kinda worked out for him, but having a whole bottom bar full of spears to throw isnt as cost effective as agility and bows in the early game, so i felt like because i was having to go up lucky loot 5 for the team at the start i was a bit shafted but like i say i get that not every role will be perfect and i guess i could have picked better options to strengthen my character.

[Drawfox]

This alpha is incredible fun.

Yesterday had the 42 horde night. I couldn't finish the base, so me and my friend had to run, so they wont destroy it.

He got his Motorcycle.

I got my Fists.

 

Pain Tolerance 5/5

Heavy Armor 5/5

Brawler 5/5

Two Steel, three Iron armor Pieces

20 zombies per player.

 

I spent the night out punching zombies in the face, I didn't knew that was possible. Seems that armor makes a LOT of difference.

Used 3 First aids kits, about 3 painkillers, a few bandages and lots of Beer. My friend gave me some support while I was tanking, throwing molotovs and shooting sometimes, kiting with the bike, as he got not armor skills.

I am even thinking about not using a base anymore, and keep fighting outside on hordes nights.

 

TLDR: Fortitude Build Rocks.

[Gazz]

TLDR: Fortitude Build Rocks.

I have heard the same said about every attribute as well as every attribute being described as horribly broken and unusable. =)

 

Weapons are now as diverse as never before and therefore not every weapon will "work" for every player.

Some love blades or long rifles, even using the hunting rifle over the MR but those are weapons that only start to click when you start to spec into them.

Must all these be "fixed" until every weapon is the same thing with a different model? I don't think so.

 

Doesn't mean we're not looking at "this is all broken" feedback - but we can't always make those happy who want to hate a specific weapon. =)

[hotpoon]

i think my only gripe might be skill tree, i find it a little annoying that if you go strength for the good of the team you can only use shotguns. I went perception and was forced to put points into spear which quite frankly isnt as good as bow and arrow or crossbow for keeping zombies out of arms length because early game your are pretty weak. infact our guy with intellect and turrets had zero deaths. so he was pretty happy with being gated it kinda worked out for him, but having a whole bottom bar full of spears to throw isnt as cost effective as agility and bows in the early game, so i felt like because i was having to go up lucky loot 5 for the team at the start i was a bit shafted but like i say i get that not every role will be perfect and i guess i could have picked better options to strengthen my character.

 

This is exactly what I've been saying. In the current skill tree, TFP have tried really hard to balance each branch into playable classes (and done a decent job), but why? It's constricting, and doesn't feel very sandboxy to have these preset classes.

 

Unless you are one of the lucky ones who happens to like all of the perks and weapons in one branch, you are going to constantly feel like you are wasting points when you want the perks from one tree, and the weapons from another.

[Gareee]

Hello.

 

Is there possibly the opportunity to open another feedback and balancing thread in which can be written in German? The German Community is certainly not the smallest and also has tons of feedback on the lips, which they do not get it addressed here because many of the players lack the necessary English skills to accurately translate their feedback.

 

It would be really great if that is possible.

 

If the developers don't speak German, how could they realistically participate in it?

[RipClaw]

If the developers don't speak German, how could they realistically participate in it?

 

Gazz speaks German because he is from Germany

[RipClaw]

Hello.

 

Is there possibly the opportunity to open another feedback and balancing thread in which can be written in German? The German Community is certainly not the smallest and also has tons of feedback on the lips, which they do not get it addressed here because many of the players lack the necessary English skills to accurately translate their feedback.

 

It would be really great if that is possible.

 

I know that there is a German Facebook group and that Gazz speaks German but I don't know if he is in that Facebook group or if one of the other developers speaks German.

[meganoth]

Gazz speaks German because he is from Germany

 

Gazz as community liaison man. Have you gone mad?

[White-Gandalf]

The principle of balancing of weapons...

 

At first, the new weapon skill trees were somewhat annoying, because i went into them with predefined goals stemming from previous alphas.

 

After the first short playthrough, i took a break, only visiting youtubers like Games4Kicks for a while. Those ,too, initially had some trouble adapting to the new weapon skills.

 

But then they developed adaptions to their playstyle fitting their chosen "build style". And i saw even things like the spear - and even without any perks - being usable in "insane/always run".

 

Of course, all those adaptions with no exception are a kind of misuse of AI constants. They will always be. They are forced to be, because obviously, the game goes about enemies being stronger than the player, have more life points than the player, be faster than the player (at least at night and if you want to have that challenge) and come in multiples per player.

 

There will never be a way where you can take zombies like human counterparts. If you set one human against multiple humans with those advantages like the zombies, the single human will inevitably fail very quickly.

 

So, please, funpimps, DO NOT again fight those adaption techniques! Like you did up to date. Misusing AI constants is the one and only type of counteraction against an AI enemy that otherwise has one to three decades of advantages. It is the innermost principle of playing this type of game: You search the AI you encounter for weaknesses, including making use of your surroundings or altering them, and use those weaknesses rigorously to your advantage.

 

==============

 

That said, i consider the new weapons skills an interesting new option.

[RipClaw]

Gazz as community liaison man. Have you gone mad?

 

At least he's not claiming that mines can be disarmed with a wrench.

[White-Gandalf]

Balancing of knives...

 

I was very (positively) surprised by the speed of knives in A18.

 

It basically went in the direction i modded A16 and A17 before: I made them faster, but proportionally reduced attack strength. So the knives were the fastest and weakest weapons, good for cutting grass right from the beginning, but becoming deadly in midgame as soon as you develop dismembering capabilities.

 

I did not go quiet THAT FAR as the funpimps did with A18. The speed now is incredible fast. But i will not be the one criticizing that, i am quiet happy with it. As long as the attack strength is in proportion (i didn't use the knives as weapons so far in A18, so i cannot argue on that), everything should be OK. We basically now have a very effective sickle for grass cutting, like in some of the most enjoyed mods out there for A15 and A16. Thanks!

[White-Gandalf]

Building blocks variety...

 

Somewhat annoying (one of the first things i modded, like in every alpha so far) are inconsistencies within the building block system.

 

Only a pitiful little bunch of blocks in the rebar class - like in all previous alphas - in contrast to a somewhat much bigger variety in the wood frame class, topped by a nearly complete variety in the flagstone and concrete class.

 

But still, even the latter are lacking a bunch of available shapes like 3 meters arch. And the quarter block seems to be gone - except for developers. And the poles and plates have exceptions - but only in wood. Perfect consistency, to say it sarcastically.

 

Like in every alpha before, i am forced to make a lot of modifications to fit my building needs. I usually provide all and every usable shape in wood frames and in rebar frames, as well as in flagstones. No game balance at all is touched by these complements, only the fun factor for building. Your name was "funpimps", right? Take a break to think about it!

 

================

 

That said, the new helper block system is a very comfortable step in the direction of actual fun. Even the fact that different stacks of the same helper block keep their differently set shapes. Well done, that part!

[White-Gandalf]

Balancing gardening...

 

I understand the wish of the funpimps to take out most of the fun of the gardening and make it a tough knapsack problem.

 

Well: Knapsack problem are the one fun factor in role playing and building games, no argument against that. But "knapsack" and "boring tenacity" are two different shoes. I think...

 

• the dirt part of the farm plot recipe is by a decade exaggerated. Actually, i think someone accidentally wrote a null too much.
  
• the farm plot does NOT contradict the farmland/fertilizer approach of the knapsack problem we had in previous alphas. The farm plot recipe - except the one too much null in dirt part - is very much the same as that of fertilizers in previous alphas.
  

 

Why the heck don't you make the farm plot an ALTERNATIVE to old fashioned farm land with fertilizer? It would have been the exact same knapsack problem with the old blocks, if ONLY you would have elevated the fertilizer requirements of all plants to the fertilizer level (31). You would have spared yourselves a lot of work.

 

The new farm plots do not fit into ground level dirt without ugly edges. I do not like that. At the moment, i am still in the evaluation phase of the new farm plot system, since it is so extremely tough and slow. But what already rather strongly manifested in my mind is the reintroduction of the normal farm land with an adapted fertilizer recipe.

[Weazelsun]

I understand the wish of the funpimps to take out most of the fun of the gardening and make it a tough knapsack problem.

 

Well: Knapsack problem are the one fun factor in role playing and building games, no argument against that. But "knapsack" and "boring tenacity" are two different shoes. I think...

 

• the dirt part of the farm plot recipe is by a decade exaggerated. Actually, i think someone accidentally wrote a null too much.
  
• the farm plot does NOT contradict the farmland/fertilizer approach of the knapsack problem we had in previous alphas. The farm plot recipe - except the one too much null in dirt part - is very much the same as that of fertilizers in previous alphas.
  

 

Why the heck don't you make the farm plot an ALTERNATIVE to old fashioned farm land with fertilizer? It would have been the exact same knapsack problem with the old blocks, if ONLY you would have elevated the fertilizer requirements of all plants to the fertilizer level (31). You would have spared yourselves a lot of work.

 

The new farm plots do not fit into ground level dirt without ugly edges. I do not like that. At the moment, i am still in the evaluation phase of the new farm plot system, since it is so extremely tough and slow. But what already rather strongly manifested in my mind is the reintroduction of the normal farm land with an adapted fertilizer recipe.

 

That does sound like it could work, that is if @madmole, would want to reintroduce the hoe back into the game. Though, it does now have me thinking the farm plot could maybe be changed to be and end-game high tier way of farming. Basically have three tiers - starter farm plot (made by clay/soil + wood, plants grow at normal rate), mid farm plot (made by clay/soil + wood + nitrate powder, plants grow at 2x rate or twice as fast), and end-game farm plot (made by clay/soil + wood + nitrate powder + rotten meat, plants grow at 3x rate or thrice as fast and upon harvesting has a 2% chance of giving a "super" version of plant. I've only now realized that my idea is the opposite of yours...

[iamnuff]

Honestly, I never liked the hoe. It never worked right and the hit-detection was completely borked.

Trying to till in straight lines was a huge pain in the ass.

 

I'd rather farmplots just be made out of 'Forestground' or something, instead of needing all of this meat, but... it's acceptable.

Might be because I spawned near Bob's Boars in two seperate games, so I've been full up on rotten meat since day one.

Tons of corpses in the basement, tons of animals in cages and even more bodies in Gracie's pen.