Joel, TFP, we love ya but your PvP is showing..

[Chronosphere]

this is pretty unfair of you to complain about pvp aspect when its made for single player pve. why u have to complain after u congrats them? spoiled brat pls dont do that in the future thanks i love the game to death cant wait.

[RyanX]

A lot of the PvPers are just those who loved the PvE but want more of a challenge. If PvE wasn't so easy for veterans, I may have not gone looking in the PvP servers. Actual human opponents simulate those bandits TFP talked about a while back.

 

Also, many of the server moderators actively police cheaters because a server with less exploits attracts more players and makes better community. For example, removing the ability for passengers on vehicles because there is an exploit that passengers can do that I won't list here. There is still plenty of community on PvP servers. I made a trade with a player today that killed me yesterday..but the tension is high...will he kill me and take my stuff again or will it be a good trade? You still make friends like you do on a PvE server...it's all just different dynamics.

 

And honestly when A18 drops I'll be playing PvE with my wife. As far as people wanting more and more...maybe so...but the bug fixes will make the most difference imo. At this point, the number and severity of the major bugs are the single greatest improvement they could make afaic. Even for PvE. Things like the micro-stutters, water physics, and optimization.

[Roland]

spoiled brat

 

Oi vey....PvE players can sling name calling as well, it's true....

 

A lot of the PvPers are just those who loved the PvE but want more of a challenge. If PvE wasn't so easy for veterans, I may have not gone looking in the PvP servers. Actual human opponents simulate those bandits TFP talked about a while back.

 

Also, many of the server moderators actively police cheaters because a server with less exploits attracts more players and makes better community. For example, removing the ability for passengers on vehicles because there is an exploit that passengers can do that I won't list here. There is still plenty of community on PvP servers. I made a trade with a player today that killed me yesterday..but the tension is high...will he kill me and take my stuff again or will it be a good trade? You still make friends like you do on a PvE server...it's all just different dynamics.

 

And honestly when A18 drops I'll be playing PvE with my wife. As far as people wanting more and more...maybe so...but the bug fixes will make the most difference imo. At this point, the number and severity of the major bugs are the single greatest improvement they could make afaic. Even for PvE. Things like the micro-stutters, water physics, and optimization.

 

One thing I completely agree with you on is more power to server admins. That would benefit any server be it PvE or PvP and as you say the strongest measure against cheating is an active admin with plenty of power at their fingertips to keep people in line and "see" exactly what is happening.

[SnowDog1942]

Punch me in my PvPness

[dregonazure]

How is it unfair for someone to have issue with the pvp in this game?? While the game is focused on pve, it still allows for pvp. Therefore, it should be fine for people to complain about the lackluster pvp in this game.

 

If the pimps truly don't care at all for pvp or if they want to remove all talks about it, then they should just remove pvp from the game entirely. Personally I just think it's better to have a solid game with no undeveloped modes rather than throw in a pve or a pvp mode that is lacking. Now if they plan to improve it one day then by all means keep pvp in, but if they decide they dont want to work on pvp, then why keep it in?

[Prisma501]

How is it unfair for someone to have issue with the pvp in this game?? While the game is focused on pve, it still allows for pvp. Therefore, it should be fine for people to complain about the lackluster pvp in this game.

 

If the pimps truly don't care at all for pvp or if they want to remove all talks about it, then they should just remove pvp from the game entirely. Personally I just think it's better to have a solid game with no undeveloped modes rather than throw in a pve or a pvp mode that is lacking. Now if they plan to improve it one day then by all means keep pvp in, but if they decide they dont want to work on pvp, then why keep it in?

 

What if its not PVP but anti-griefing options for PVE?

 

Cheers

[pApA^LeGBa]

Just be glad they didn´t take PvP out after the accident and show some patience. We PvE players are usually in your situation and the worst thing to happen for the game would be if they suddenly go towards PvP heavily.

 

You can find a ton of PvP games out there without microtransactions and lootboxes. Play some of those for a while maybe? We don´t have that choice, be happy you can choose.

[JaxTeller718]

Just be glad they didn´t take PvP out after the accident and show some patience. We PvE players are usually in your situation and the worst thing to happen for the game would be if they suddenly go towards PvP heavily.

 

You can find a ton of PvP games out there without microtransactions and lootboxes. Play some of those for a while maybe? We don´t have that choice, be happy you can choose.

 

This.

 

It cant be stressed enough that the PVP Survival genre is overloaded with choices. The PVE genre? Not so much.

 

Want a good example? Look at Scum. Thats a game who initially focused on PVE. There was no base building because the devs wanted players to have to travel and live on the road, not stockpile ammo and armor. You lived with what you had. You fought zombies. Most times players helped each other. PVP was there but it wasnt as dire because you only had what you had.

 

You couldnt access each others stash, so there was no raiding. A few months ago base building got introduced and now all the servers are overrun with clans and most PVE players quit. Now PVP players are complaining because theres no one to fight.

 

THAT is the inherent problem with a game trying to be survival PVP and PVE all at once. It just cant be done. PVP fosters the attitude of take. PVE players just want to explore and fight non player threats. It will always turn into a situation of PVp players bullying PVE players off the server. And dont say thats not true, because its happened on Conan, on Ark, on Rust, on Miscreated and now on Scum. Before that PVp players spread their toxicity on H1Z1 Just Survive to the point that the devs actually started developing the game TO PVP players and dropped focus on PVE. And look what happened there.

 

I dont think most PVp players realize just how awful they can be to others. Thats fine when you have a game developed for that style. But for ONCE can pvp players just chalk this one up to what it is. Its ok for PVE players to have a game for them.

 

Hell there was a private H1Z1 server that was set up specifically to have a PVE zone and a PVP zone. Want to know how that went? PVP players just sat around waiting for a PVE player to accidentally cross the border to snipe them. Otherwise all they did was sit around and complain there was nothing to do, to make the whole map PVP. Which they did. And server pop dropped so much they had to shut that server down.

 

I think that says a LOT about PVP and Survival Games.

[SylenThunder]

This.

 

It cant be stressed enough that the PVP Survival genre is overloaded with choices. The PVE genre? Not so much.

 

Want a good example? Look at Scum. Thats a game who initially focused on PVE. There was no base building because the devs wanted players to have to travel and live on the road, not stockpile ammo and armor. You lived with what you had. You fought zombies. Most times players helped each other. PVP was there but it wasnt as dire because you only had what you had.

 

You couldnt access each others stash, so there was no raiding. A few months ago base building got introduced and now all the servers are overrun with clans and most PVE players quit. Now PVP players are complaining because theres no one to fight.

 

THAT is the inherent problem with a game trying to be survival PVP and PVE all at once. It just cant be done. PVP fosters the attitude of take. PVE players just want to explore and fight non player threats. It will always turn into a situation of PVp players bullying PVE players off the server. And dont say thats not true, because its happened on Conan, on Ark, on Rust, on Miscreated and now on Scum. Before that PVp players spread their toxicity on H1Z1 Just Survive to the point that the devs actually started developing the game TO PVP players and dropped focus on PVE. And look what happened there.

 

I dont think most PVp players realize just how awful they can be to others. Thats fine when you have a game developed for that style. But for ONCE can pvp players just chalk this one up to what it is. Its ok for PVE players to have a game for them.

 

Hell there was a private H1Z1 server that was set up specifically to have a PVE zone and a PVP zone. Want to know how that went? PVP players just sat around waiting for a PVE player to accidentally cross the border to snipe them. Otherwise all they did was sit around and complain there was nothing to do, to make the whole map PVP. Which they did. And server pop dropped so much they had to shut that server down.

 

I think that says a LOT about PVP and Survival Games.

Correct. This is 100% why I gave up on Ark. They went from designing a good PvE Game with some PvP aspects, to focusing more on PvP than they were on fixing core client issues. Shortly afterwards it went completely downhill. I don't know how the game is as popular as it appears to be, but it's likely because of the dinosaurs and nothing else.

[Roland]

And we can’t help it that the ONE apocalyptic zombie survival game that focuses primarily on solo and cooperative gameplay also happens to be the best game on the planet with the potential of having the most robust PvP gameplay if only the devs would focus on it....

[Poojam]

Correct. This is 100% why I gave up on Ark. They went from designing a good PvE Game with some PvP aspects, to focusing more on PvP than they were on fixing core client issues. Shortly afterwards it went completely downhill. I don't know how the game is as popular as it appears to be, but it's likely because of the dinosaurs and nothing else.

 

If success is measured by how many people play the game, then ARK is much more successful than 7DTD. Maybe they need to get them some of that pee vee pee.

 

ARK

https://steamcharts.com/app/346110

 

7DTD

https://steamcharts.com/app/251570

[Guppycur]

Poo's back! =)

[Poojam]

Just a reminder, the PvP population of this title is only 3-5% of the playerbase.

 

You guys might be given some consideration after the core game is done. The core game is designed for SP or MP Co-Op.

As ZombieSurvivor stated, this isn't likely to happen until after the game goes Gold. It's also likely to be minimal since balancing for PvP almost always screws over the PvE mechanics. Developers aren't likely to screw up the game for 97% of the player base so they can make 3% happy.

 

I wager that it would be a much higher percentage if TFP did a better job at fixing the exploits and hacks. A11-A14ish was a hackfest for a couple of YEARS, servers struggled to handle more than a dozen players, and then the RPG elements began to take over in subsequent alphas. Upon first implementation, some of the PVE-RPG elements resulted in comical force multipliers and resulted in a devastation of the PVP audience.

 

The PVP playerbase is so low because the game is quite bad at PVP. The ones that still play it are sitting here going ~"hey you could just tweak a few things to remove the ridiculous inbalances, fix the hacks, and it would be so much better."

 

Result =

GARRRR YOU DON'T MATTER BECAUSE THERE IS ONLY 3-5% OF YOU AND IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE SO FK OFF!!!!!111

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Poo's back! =)

 

I'm always around.

[Roland]

If success is measured by how many people play the game, then ARK is much more successful than 7DTD. Maybe they need to get them some of that pee vee pee.

 

ARK

https://steamcharts.com/app/346110

 

7DTD

https://steamcharts.com/app/251570

 

There’s always ways to make more money if you’re willing to do what it takes. Nobody denies that PVP is a cash cow. Thankfully TFP has been able to stick to their vision and have enough success to not feel the slightest bit of pressure or temptation to abandon what they want their game to be in pursuit of the success you’re pitching.

 

They did briefly discuss how they could bring back horde mode as a battle royale mode back when every other game with PvP potential was jumping on board that fad but even then it was just design chatter and brainstorming as a possibility after the game is released and never a “We gotta do this now while it’s popular so we can be more successful!”

[Scyris]

Why does there even have to be any PvP? I'm kinda irked that whenever there's a big survival game, there has to be PvP. Can't we try to survive the endless hordes without trying to kill each other?

 

This would work if they were any real threat, the day 77/84 hordes in a18 are easier than the first day 7 horde in the darkness falls mod in alpha 17.4, long before day 77 in that mod you have demons that shoot molotovs, behemoths and other nasty stuff. The problem is most of the enemies in vanilla 7dtd just pose no real threat.

 

As for pvp, imo if you wanna go gank people play fortnite BR or something. This is meant to be a survival game, the walking dead tv series for example became garbage once it was all about the pvp human vs human than about the zombie threat. First 2 seasons were the best then it went downhill.

 

Pvp also brings another problem: balance, balacing stuff for pvp and pve at the same time just does not work unless you can have 2 sets of stats for each other, one in pvp mode, 1 in pve mode, that can switch on the fly if your hitting a player or a zombie. I've seen to many games ruin the pve side due to balancing stuff for the pvp side when they try to balance it in a single item with no differing stats for both modes. This is probally what TFP is trying to avoid, unless they can get my dual stat thing where every item including armor has both pve and pvp stats, they will never balance it properly without destroying the pve side. As a example: greifers were using the old water mechanics to flood peoples bases, so tfp had to change the water mechanics to the jello it basically is now to stop them from doing it. So water ended up ruined due to a few asshats using it to greif with it. See the problem with pvp now? Well that was a bigger issue as it could be even done on a non-pvp server.

 

TFP has also said this game was never meant to be a pvp game its meant to be a pve survival, so I don't understand why people don't seem to be able to get that thru their heads. Going on about pvp is basically beating a dead corpse now, its pointless.

 

They did say they will work more on the pvp side once the game finally goes gold (if it ever does, imo once they start selling it to me = gold). Also in a game like this thats fully destructable its going to be near impossible to get rid of all of the expoilts due to the worlds fully destroyable nature. Thats why survival games with a static map like Ark Survival evolved etc have better pvp.

 

For example: with the SI system if I wanted to be an ass, I could dig around someones base under ground 1-2 blocks wide, then dig thru the rock right under the base and collapse it. This could be done even with the owner sitting right in it. you'd not even need to remove the very top grass layer as it'll cave under the weight once you dig thru the 500 hp rock under the base. This can be done with no exploits, just using the games own SI system to do the work. Only way to prevent this is if the land claim blocks protection is set to infinite so its impossible to destroy the rock under the base.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I wager that it would be a much higher percentage if TFP did a better job at fixing the exploits and hacks. A11-A14ish was a hackfest for a couple of YEARS, servers struggled to handle more than a dozen players, and then the RPG elements began to take over in subsequent alphas. Upon first implementation, some of the PVE-RPG elements resulted in comical force multipliers and resulted in a devastation of the PVP audience.

 

The PVP playerbase is so low because the game is quite bad at PVP. The ones that still play it are sitting here going ~"hey you could just tweak a few things to remove the ridiculous inbalances, fix the hacks, and it would be so much better."

 

Result =

GARRRR YOU DON'T MATTER BECAUSE THERE IS ONLY 3-5% OF YOU AND IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE SO FK OFF!!!!!111

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

I'm always around.

 

Naw, pvp playerbase is always much MUCH lower than the pve playerbase in any game that has both modes. Thats just a fact of gaming in general. Games like fortnite BR do not count as its 100% pvp.

[Dieselpunk]

I loved PvP when the game first came out, until my underground bunker got rocketed by hackers with spawned in items. Never played it again.

[Kalarro]

Naw, pvp playerbase is always much MUCH lower than the pve playerbase in any game that has both modes. Thats just a fact of gaming in general. Games like fortnite BR do not count as its 100% pvp.

 

I'm thinking about several problems with that statement.

 

Fortnite was a pve game long before pvp mode. It was pvp mode whcih made it famous (sadly IMO). I was eagerly waiting for Fortnite when it was under development, bc it was a coop survival game. The PvE part got screwed with the terrible purchase card system, and then everything went crap with the pvp mode (for me). But it does have a pve mode, the original game was even only pve. And it still got it's glory with the pvp. So what you say doesnt make sense

 

There are other examples like ARK and similar games. Those games could be played pve, but are mostly played for pvp. Granted, it's because their pve content sucks, which is what makes 7d2d so awesome.

[Katitof]

Why does there even have to be any PvP? I'm kinda irked that whenever there's a big survival game, there has to be PvP. Can't we try to survive the endless hordes without trying to kill each other?

 

Because 7d emerged at time where all the vaporware zombie survival pvp games came out and people demanded it here as well.

[Nauman Marwat]

I loved pvp in this game,played pvp for like a year but problem is that mostly your's base get raided when you are offline,which is not fun tbh.And yes there are many bugs to exploit,I tried pve after that,which was easy as I expected,fun for new players or those who just chill with friends and like building(don't want to offense anyone,as I know most people's like pve).Then I tried mods,first I tried starvation in aplha 16 and Now I play Darkness falls as starvation is no more.I love playing with these mods,as they are challenging and fun.Let Devs make this game gold then Pvp will be balanced.

[RipClaw]

I loved pvp in this game,played pvp for like a year but problem is that mostly your's base get raided when you are offline,which is not fun tbh.

 

This is a fundamental problem of many online PvP games. There is always someone on the server who is online when everyone else is offline. I wouldn't be surprised if there are players who intentionally choose servers that are in other time zones just to have an advantage.

 

In my opinion, PvP only works in games where direct combat is the main focus.