Joel, TFP, we love ya but your PvP is showing..

[AtomicUs5000]

I have never worked on a game professionally. Everything I do is office software unfortunately. However, over the years, I have experimented with private projects as a hobby. I always dealt with camera clipping by giving the camera its own collision mask. While the body's collision mask might not be good enough for keeping all of it out of other objects, the camera's I would always make with its origin slightly in front of its view. If collision was ever detected with a solid object, or any objects with some tag I define, I would just turn off the camera and switch to another camera somewhere in the world facing a black wall.

[RyanX]

well if you feel like counting every single pvp player I can get the % easily just as I did with 7105 total-222 pvp = 3.1% playing PVP at that very moment. Of course we are not talking total player base.

 

All this math is hurting my head lol....anyways

 

Just a cursory glance at the first page of MP servers showed 190 PvE vs 140 PvP players.

 

I think it's more significant than people think.

 

Let's just a pick another number out of thin air....4%

 

Why would it be out of the question for TFP to spend 4% of their time on PvP QoL?

[SnowDog1942]

Do all these numbers being thrown around include single player games?.. non dedicated servers.

[Gamida]

I think there is not much fun in playing a single player pvp game

[AtomicUs5000]

The thing is this though... while the percentage of people playing PVP is low, that number might be higher if it was better.

It isn't fair, nor accurate, to use the current people playing PVP as a basis to determine whether or not to improve on it.

 

I do not play PVP. Why not? Because plainly it sucks. If it didn't I would. Simple as that.

[RyanX]

The thing is this though... while the percentage of people playing PVP is low, that number might be higher if it was better.

It isn't fair, nor accurate, to use the current people playing PVP as a basis to determine whether or not to improve on it.

 

I do not play PVP. Why not? Because plainly it sucks. If it didn't I would. Simple as that.

 

Yeah I made that point earlier. It goes over the head of some, though.

[DarlingCows]

You know what would work, 7 days to die Battle Royal.

[Roland]

Yeah I made that point earlier. It goes over the head of some, though.

 

Not over the head at all. I know that focusing on PvP (and like DarlingCow mentioned: Battle Royale Mode) would be the cash grab option. They could do loot boxes and microtransactions and really take off with 1000's of players like PUBG and Fortnite and even H1Z1 did with their King of the Kill reskin of their game. Then our forums and our community would be filled with people who have a PvP focus. In fact the forums used to have a much larger percentage of PvP players and whenever the discussion was about building or playing non-PvP they would dissolve into flamewars with the PvPers calling the rest names like Carebears and Casuals.

 

What seems to go over your head is that TFP have resisted that temptation and are sticking to their focus of delivering the best SP and cooperative multiplayer open world voxel survival game. This is called "not selling out your vision" and is exactly why developers with dreams create their games independently rather than being part of the larger studios. If this game had been sold to one of the big boys you would've gotten your wish the moment Fortnite had its overwhelming success. It would have gone full PvP and probably Battle Royale....

 

But TFP are still firmly in control and are still following their vision so PvP aspects of the game will continue to suck, and the game will continue to only attract a small trickle of PvP players, and our community will continue to be mostly filled with the types of gamers who enjoy building and surviving on their own and with family and friends rather than the types of gamers who enjoy KOSing noobs by babysitting typical spawn locations, and finding bases by peeking underground, and using vehicles to get around landclaim, and attack player bases while they are offline, and, and, and....

 

Yeah, I'm fine with PvPers NOT being attracted to this game in huge numbers and dominating our community and most importantly the developers' time...

[Sinixter]

Forget about books and stop adding in features that make the SP and MP Cooperative ways of playing the game better?

 

No thank you.

 

 

There are literally hundreds of games where PvP is the main focus and SP is the token afterthought, and truly cooperative gameplay is nonexistent. We have this one game where the roles are reversed and PvP players have to chew on the leftovers. Well, I'm not inclined to feel much sympathy about that. 7 Days to Die is a single player and multiplayer cooperative game that can also be played PvP and not the other way around.

 

Could've The Fun Pimps followed the money and just gone full on PvP? Sure, but they didn't and don't plan to. They have carved out a great niche for themselves and are happy with the success they have and will at some point look at what can be done for PvP-- as long as (and this is important) it doesn't conflict or harm the balance of the SP and cooperative gameplay.

 

Now, you might say that fixing the clipping and other PvP issues wouldn't harm SP or cooperative gameplay at all. It would help those modes of play also. Thing is, they are irrelevant. Why would I ever be tempted to clip into the terrain and look around underground in SP? Spending time fixing every conceivable way to clip into the terrain would take time which you even admitted by saying "Stop it with the books and fix our issues". You know that it is a choice of how to spend time and resources and since taking time to fix things that don't have any effect on the main game modes of play would harm those modes by taking away dev time to not add new content-- the fixes you want will just have to wait.

 

I know your frustration, man. I feel it with almost every other game on the market that has a robust PvP experience and a ♥♥♥♥ty SP campaign that was obviously tacked on for the smaller market who doesn't PvP.

 

Role reversal can be a bitch when it happens.

 

Thank you FUN PIMPS.. I for one hate PVP. EVERY SINGLE GAME OUT THERE IS PVP. Let there be just 1 that isnt. Dont like the pvp in 7 days to die go play fornite or something. I honestly play this game because of the lack of pvp and the time i can spend working on something creative with others. I loved the game on console until updates stopped and then i built 2 pcs to play it so both me and my wife could play. this is our time together we enjoy it. I have watched this game grow from 13 until now and continue to enjoy it bugs mods the whole thing. Roland and the other mods, the people make mods and keep it interesting i support you anytime i can.. Thank you.

[atrayas]

There are two things that will keep this game going once development is complete:

 

1) Mods

2) PvP

 

Face it, the single player experience is awesome your first few times, but a veteran player will get bored of it eventually and look into something more. Take me for example, I started off playing vanilla and when that got boring I started playing mods. Once that got boring I looked into PvP and tbh love it. I have never been a big pvp focused player in any game but I have to say, the thrill of running into someone randomly and knowing they can take all my stuff if I mess up is just exhilarating.

 

What I want is for the TFP to continue what they have started and once that is complete maybe we can get a little love on the pvp side, maybe an entirely new game mode directed at the pvp crowd so as not to influence the core game for the SP folks. It is a very difficult task to balance both PVE and PVP, so yea, TFP can get PVE down for the majority then maybe some pvp love.

[Ti2xGr]

I'm one of those PVE Love players. I have met and played with hundreds of other players in our server from all over the world. A living community within the game that goes out on quests together, builds living "cities" where people share resources and are encouraged to play as a team against the A.I.. Players who steal from others are kicked, and we teach people starting out how to survive and thrive. I have over 4,500 hours and not close to bored yet.

[SnowDog1942]

If u want to PVP there are games out there for that, much better than this one. I play several of them. I for one am overjoyed the devs are focused on SP/ co-op for this game.

[Sinixter]

Will PvPers become the next consolers ( i can joke as i was one of them and then the light came in the form of a pc) Want PvP go play fornite. leave the devs a lone about it.

[RipClaw]

Will PvPers become the next consolers ( i can joke as i was one of them and then the light came in the form of a pc) Want PvP go play fornite. leave the devs a lone about it.

 

The difference is that maybe one day the licensing problems with Teltale will be solved but some of the bugs that mainly affect PvP players will probably never be solved. For example the clipping.

[Tweedilderp]

I wouldnt say they have ignored PVP at all, in fact I posted about the dupe glitch with my video on youtube regarding it by crashing the game in task manager and it got fixed in a17.4. I have now posted about clipping with doors and hatches and no doubt that is being fixed as well and that video has been viewed by devs/testers.

 

The other thing they know about and are working on are vehicles not taking fall dmg in players tower pits, the only thing i havent seen reported is vehicle collision damage bypassing LCB protection as its not considered a player entity....yet. Once the fall dmg is in towers wont really be raidable as long as players keep turrets/spikes/blade traps at the bottom.

 

I think this is a good step forwards, the next thing they need to fix as well are molotovs colliding when dropped and burning. People could raid bases by hovering over a base in a gyro and dropping tonnes of molotovs, but in my server i just edit out what i find wrong in the xml's. Most good server owners can do this while staying in the main server menu, the unfortunate thing is most don't know or just rent and can't access those files.

[RipClaw]

I wouldnt say they have ignored PVP at all, in fact I posted about the dupe glitch with my video on youtube regarding it by crashing the game in task manager and it got fixed in a17.4. I have now posted about clipping with doors and hatches and no doubt that is being fixed as well and that video has been viewed by devs/testers.

 

Fixing the clipping bugs may not be as easy as you think. Don't forget that 7 Days to die is a game with a completely destructible world. This is a different kind of beast than a static world.

[Gazz]

There is one way actually. Just make each block be drawn individually on all 6 sides. When you're "under-mesh" all you will see is blocks in your face.

...

2. It will require a PC much stronger that what is currently available.

Well, it's totally possible if instead of a couple thousand "block faces" you want to render about 1 million. There is a lot of underground that is hidden for a good reason.

[Gazz]

Just so you know, I was only joking and not diagnosing .

And I was pulling numbers out of my butt as well...but at least it’s a math Butt.

The Millennium Year Application Software System has been in use for almost 2 decades now.

[Roland]

The Millennium Year Application Software System has been in use for almost 2 decades now.

 

And good use is being made of it.

[Roland]

I wouldnt say they have ignored PVP at all, in fact I posted about the dupe glitch with my video on youtube regarding it by crashing the game in task manager and it got fixed in a17.4. I have now posted about clipping with doors and hatches and no doubt that is being fixed as well and that video has been viewed by devs/testers.

 

The other thing they know about and are working on are vehicles not taking fall dmg in players tower pits, the only thing i havent seen reported is vehicle collision damage bypassing LCB protection as its not considered a player entity....yet. Once the fall dmg is in towers wont really be raidable as long as players keep turrets/spikes/blade traps at the bottom.

 

I think this is a good step forwards, the next thing they need to fix as well are molotovs colliding when dropped and burning. People could raid bases by hovering over a base in a gyro and dropping tonnes of molotovs, but in my server i just edit out what i find wrong in the xml's. Most good server owners can do this while staying in the main server menu, the unfortunate thing is most don't know or just rent and can't access those files.

 

I was able to reproduce that door technique you showed and I sent the link and my repro report to the QA lead. He said they would look at it.

[Kalarro]

You know what the problem with this post is OP?

That there are a lot of similar games focused on PVP while this is one of the only few focused on PVE.

Rust, ark, age of conan and all those popular survival+crafting games are totally focused on pvp and suck ass for pve. So having 7d2d beeing focused in pve is what allows them to make it so good.

[RyanX]

Look, I've got no problem with PvE. As a matter of fact I have more hours in PvE than I do PvP. My wife likes the game so we play on some nice PvE servers, but she refuses to play PvP. I only PvP when she doesn't feel like playing. But TBH, PvE gets boring REALLY fast. The MP servers population drops off real quick because zombies are a cake walk after a certain point.

 

I know they want to focus on PvE and that's fine, but fixing just a few simple issues would make a HUGE difference. Give the server hosts a few of the tools they meed to mod it. Clipping, LCB tuning (like turning the hit "ping" sound off)...just to name a couple.

 

Just because they FOCUS on PvE doesn't mean ONLY PvE. TFP obviously has an eye towards PvP, so to say that they shouldn't do ANYTHING with it is hogwash.

[RyanX]

Not over the head at all. I know that focusing on PvP (and like DarlingCow mentioned: Battle Royale Mode) would be the cash grab option. They could do loot boxes and microtransactions and really take off with 1000's of players like PUBG and Fortnite and even H1Z1 did with their King of the Kill reskin of their game. Then our forums and our community would be filled with people who have a PvP focus. In fact the forums used to have a much larger percentage of PvP players and whenever the discussion was about building or playing non-PvP they would dissolve into flamewars with the PvPers calling the rest names like Carebears and Casuals.

 

What seems to go over your head is that TFP have resisted that temptation and are sticking to their focus of delivering the best SP and cooperative multiplayer open world voxel survival game. This is called "not selling out your vision" and is exactly why developers with dreams create their games independently rather than being part of the larger studios. If this game had been sold to one of the big boys you would've gotten your wish the moment Fortnite had its overwhelming success. It would have gone full PvP and probably Battle Royale....

 

But TFP are still firmly in control and are still following their vision so PvP aspects of the game will continue to suck, and the game will continue to only attract a small trickle of PvP players, and our community will continue to be mostly filled with the types of gamers who enjoy building and surviving on their own and with family and friends rather than the types of gamers who enjoy KOSing noobs by babysitting typical spawn locations, and finding bases by peeking underground, and using vehicles to get around landclaim, and attack player bases while they are offline, and, and, and....

 

Yeah, I'm fine with PvPers NOT being attracted to this game in huge numbers and dominating our community and most importantly the developers' time...

 

Why do you think they would have to go the Fortnite/Pub/microtransaction route if they focus on PvP? Most PvPers I know who play 7D2D play it because it doesn't have those features.

 

Then the whole list of KOS noobs/spawn camping/peeking underground/vehicles is exactly what needs fixed. The 7D2D pvp community doesn't want them on our servers either...which is exactly why I made this post...because it's too easy to exploit the game.

 

TFP has accidentally created a very attractive game for PvP, and there really aren't a whole lot of things that need fixing to make a vast improvement.

 

And really PvP is just PvE with smarter enemies.

[RyanX]

I've never had to deal with this issue, but a thought occurred to me. Couldn't you fix this by placing blocks? Or does the clipping go past them, too? Also, as ZombieSuvivor said, build above ground

 

The clipper would then see your blocks underground and know that there is a base there. When you build above ground, the PvPers can easily dig the dirt out from under you and collapse your entire base,

[Roland]

I wasn’t so much talking about deficiencies in the game as I was talking about the type of gamer and the attitude that goes with winning at all costs.

 

There has never been any improvement or change in this game that didn’t inspire the people who like that change to push for more. That’s just the way it is.

 

TFP fixes water physics in A19 and adds a raft and feel they are done. But no...because now people want fishing, scuba gear, motorized boats, floating wood blocks, and on and on. So there would not be just a few fixes for PvP and then they will be happy. They would be hungry for more and whatever small changes or fixes to make it better would be devoured and digested in no time and then it would be back to pushing for more. And it wouldn’t be “PvP is good now and to make it better we want....”. Nope. It would go back to what we hear now. “PvP sucks and we need...”

 

Fixing the current crop of edge cases for clipping and peering underground would be good. But that doesn’t stop the attitude which means they will find a way again to do it. That mentality is what I’m glad there currently is a minimal amount of in the community. PvE players tend to want a challenge and so avoid exploits and if they do use them they are just cheating themselves of the challenge. PvP players tend to want to win and so seek out exploits. Not everyone. But enough— and there will always be exploits.

 

I would like this game to be the best it can be in all game modes so I think improving and fixing PvP would be a good thing. I just think that it needs to happen after the SP and cooperative modes of the game are done and shipped.

 

I can see that you are the type of gamer who wants a fair fight and everyone to be gaming with integrity and going vs others with skill and legit preparations instead of exploits and cheats. If all PvP players were like that I would have no worries about pushing that part of the game right now. But you (and your friends as you describe them) are more of an exception in my opinion.

 

I’m probably a PvPigot....