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Poojam last won the day on December 28 2018

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  1. Are P2W servers allowed via TFP TOS? https://www.afterlifeservers.com/product-category/vip-donation-packs/
  2. Me too. - - - Updated - - - I don't mean this in a derogatory way. But... are you on the spectrum? Maybe just a little?
  3. Yea, score doesn't matter because there is an overiding aspect beyond digital numbers on a board. That aspect is to take other people's stuff. I hate sports for exactly the reason you have stated. What part of this game is meant to be a sport? You're dissecting my milkshake example, comparing it to your personal opinion of a different aspect of your liking, and missing the point. Yea, the rewards don't change for me for the first 3-4 days of low level gameplay. You're right! We finally agree on something. If you read on, you would find that your recommendation of restoring loot to the owners does change for the rest of our existence. What are you going to get from someone on the 2nd kill of camping a bedroll that you can't get from raiding? Your inexperience is really starting to show here. Yes, the raider does pay an ante. They don't know what they are going to find. Could be nothing. Could be a lot of usefull stuff. They spend resources on fuel, food/water, repair kits, tool durability (on big bases, I can chew up a purple auger completely) without knowing what they are going to get. They also expose themselves to 3rd parties that can come by and shoot them in the back and take their raiding gear. It's an ante. And to my point if you give people their stuff back when they log back in, then what is the point? You've just destroyed the notion of scarcity, encoded a great way to dupe, and damaged the competitive aspects of the game. This notion is the epitome of pvp-butt-hurt here.
  4. I didn't do a good job of quoting his arguments and framing my responses. I'm not pro/against the scoreboard in it's current incarnation. I was just using it to support my argument that making my numbers bigger on it is not a reward to me.
  5. A scoreboard is meaningless because it has no value. It's like that Drew Carey show from the 90's, "Whose line is it anyways?". The points don't matter. If points were all that mattered to me, I would be happy with CS Go because I would strive for a high-tier ranking and positive k/d at the end of my matches. The scoreboard that we already have doesn't really matter. You might look at it to gage whether you are going to trust someone that has 45 player kills, but other than that it's useless. The current system, where there things at stake for both parties involved in raiding or protecting your assets, matters. It matters because if I drink your milk shake, you don't have a milkshake anymore. It may have taken you hours to get that milkshake. But I took it by killing you and now it's mine! There is risk and reward. What you are proposing is eliminating the risk part of that equation, which cheapens the reward. It depends on where I am in character progression and the server settings. If I'm low level, then I may get something of value. But if I'm high level and have an established base, it has very little value to me. I'm raiding for the purpose of taking it from my competition. If they aren't being raided, they are spending their time and resources working on raiding me. It is the survival of the fittest. If the server is drop all, I won't turn down anything. It all has some value. If it's bag drop, the only thing that has value is mats. I will never lose my bar (weapons/armor/critical tools/fuel/kits etc). If it's belt drop, the only thing that has value are weapons. But this is to a smaller extent, because I just won't use those slots on my bar save for a weapon and a stack of med kits. If it's no drop, then I view that as the same as there being no point for half of the game. I can only raid people. And they can just store all their good stuff in their inventory, where I can never get it. What a miserably boring server setting imo. That's fine that you are motivated at "being the best" at something. We just differ on what that is. IMO, points on a scoreboard don't make you the best when it's so easy to game those points by camping a noob's bedroll. I've seen players farm a hundred kills and conflate their scores. That would make them the best by your metric wouldn't it? I mean this in a good-natured trash talking PVP way, but if you are level 75 and I raided your base and killed you on a drop all server. Raided everything to the point where you have to go out and punch trees to get wood for making a stone axe again, I think we both know who is the best regardless of the scoreboard. No i disagree on the little league. I normally play on a drop all server where griefing and base raiding are not only allowed, but encouraged. On good days, there are 25 other players competing on it. We're all angling to kill each other and take each other's stuff, eventually. We all spend dozens/hundreds of hours on some server builds. Any individual can lose a ton of work in obtaining resources/tools/weapons by being careless and losing it to your opponent. The adrenaline that gets pumping when you run into a stranger that is gunning for you, and you have 15000 stone in your bag, is quite high. When you die, it's rough. I get motivated to exact revenge. To get my stuff back and to take a piece of his while I'm at it. When I live, it's simply a thrill to have survived the encounter knowing there was something at stake. Getting the contents of their bag is a bonus. Eliminating the risk from killing a player or a base raiding perspective (by restoring the owner's loot) would be what I call little league. And it would not be any fun whatsoever because the only one that had to pay an ante, was the one doing the raiding.
  6. PVP has long been the whipping boy because every problem is magnified 10x in a competitive game environment. When there are problems, it is always the PVP'ers voicing the complaints first and loudest. I'm sure that's why Madmole had gotten so negative about it in the past.
  7. I'm not one either. But I am an engineer. And your last statement is pretty lol-worthy.
  8. Roger that. Options a plenty. Good. Aside from those main technical fixes, the sound system needs to be dialed back in to something more reasonable. I talked about this in an earlier post in this thread. Those really are the big picture things in my mind. If you're truly soliciting ideas; Player built arena's/deathmatch areas are a cool thing that modders have been playing with for awhile now. It's PVP and fits the genre of survival a bit too. Think gladiator-type deathmatches within the same world. If the dev's could formalize that into something that can be accommodated in game as a prefab unit that would be pretty popular. I'm thinking it would be a large prefab where players gather to fight it out. Maybe make it so an audience can place bets on the survivor with dukes. The winner is given awards. I'm envisioning a large invulnerable paintball arena surrounded by grandstands. The grandstands would disable PVP for the audience until they leave the prefab area. Lots of possibilities on weapons/stakes that could be drawn up. This would definitely provide a means to scratch an itch for players that just want to fight. I know I have several friends that didn't stick with 7dtd because there just wasn't enough action. Once you killed someone they usually disappeared for the evening. Maybe you could even make it possible to fight boss zombies/herds of ferals etc/or bandit leaders as a challenger in the arena, such that it works in a PVE-only setting as well. One idea I had about the education side of things is the development of an NPC that does that. I think a lot of players don't know what to expect when they join a multiplayer server that allows PVP. The disappointment raidees feel is because they didn't understand or know that they are being hunted by other players. So tell them in a fun way. For example, a lot of RPG and surival-genre games use wilderness guides or NPC's to disseminate tips, tricks, and dial in expectations for learning the game. Copy/pasta traitor Joel and build him into a hardcore character archetype housed within a fortified bunker. Make finding him part of the starter quests. Players could take him beer and ammunition or whatever he wants will change in exchange for certain information. You could trade these for guidance or medium-rarity items (calipers, chem stations, forges, skill books). Make the things he says (like the trader who talks ♥♥♥♥ all the time) a paranoid hardcore niche PVP type. "Hide your stuff or the other surivors will take it! They took my mother's favorite auger." I'm picturing the well-prepared survival guy from Tremors, Burt Gummer. You could make his place filled with absurd amounts of food and supplies. And I mean this in an endearing way, but you could name him Mr. Bloom You could also achieve the same sort of thing with a simple, handheld radio that survivors start with. Let the broadcaster be some survivor cooped up in his base looking for friends out there. Flash bangs would be a cool new item that I don't believe is implementable within the current coding. It has offensive and defensive capabilities for PVP. Most of the mechanics and player model templates are there to support the actions, but variables to be called on by the audio and visual need to be supported. Refine support for clans/factioning to foster and promote cooperative play. Friends lists are a good start. But I'm talking leadership, building privledges on shared claimed areas. Take a look at ARK, which has a pretty robust factioning support system to get some ideas. This game is about survival, but it seems too common that people are going at it alone in the wilderness. Most people simply can't trust anybody to bring into their houses. I understand it can be brutal for new players. Logically speaking, survivors would seek the shelter and protection of groups if a post-apocalyptic event actually happened. Personally, I find the game so much more rewarding when you have a few allies and you can cooperatively build, mine resources, and protect each other. As a logical extension of that, it would be neat if we could have clothing/armor items and signs that are customizeable and identifiable from a distance. Rust does this with a crude paint-like feature in game that is kind of neat. But if you wanted to be refined, it could be integrated into the steam workshop so that higher resolution emblems/icons can be made to incorporate into their bases and clothing. There are probably some significant backend changes that would need to be made such that when a custom model is worn by a player it shows up correctly to other players. This is not just for PVP, but once you have steam workshop support for icons/emblems then allow the same for purchase and placement of custom prefabs. Create the backend technical support to allow players to go into single player, build a custom base, export it to the steam workshop, download it, deliver it, and enable any player to place it in the game. Empyrion does this with ships and it's really awesome. You download a schematic and must have the mats in your inventory.
  9. So a central claim block is going to recompute the health of the claimed area after every bullet hit/tool swing? Don't you think that will be resource intensive?
  10. I don't think you're far off the mark. I would lump myself into that category too quite frankly. But I think he, as well as several others that have posted in this thread, are still trying to make a sincere effort to provide input and guide the decision making process. I suspect you could agree that my trepidation (and likely others) that are passionate about this topic are not without basis. Let's not frame the picture of how the conversation went after the fact to support your own interpretation of how the thread has evolved. I think there has been valid points on both sides of the aisle on most the relevant topics. Some better than others. Some from left field. It's all there plain as day if anyone cares to read it, or as you say "will turn it to Madmole for review" once it has borne fruit. To be clear, you did say additional options later on down the line. This is not how it was represented in some of the "throwing out ideas" posts at the beginning of this topic. This thread was billed as a "PVP Mode" and ideas were pitched by you and Gazz to achieve those ends. What the "mode" actually meant in terms of server execution was not really communicated. I interpreted it as a standalone product like H1Z1's King of the Hill. Knowing how the dev's have portrayed the development of the game, I suspected this was something that was being explored so they sell it. It would be all packaged up to satisfy the "PVPers" and conveniently enable further silo'ing off the core game's development so that they could develop it to cater to their PVE-only audience's desires. I'm skeptical like that. Please tell me I'm wrong. But on the arguments in question, it was quite specific that it was seen as a positive move to flatten out the progression curve, which could theoretically be customizeable. Fair enough. However, I don't understand how Gazz's ideas about creating a single, centralized claim block +/- perks protection assets +/- invulnerability status would be be compatible within the current or simple adaptation of the server customization variables. It seems likely that this is a stretch to say it could be supported both ways. ...? I'm all ears.
  11. Yea they are. Which is what and how I enjoy playing it. Gazz is talking about changing that. The only trouble is the proposed system (single scaling difficulty claim) will be very restrictive in terms of base design. It will also be very easily exploitable by the owner. As I understand it, the point was to create a disencentive to causing a lot of damage to a base. Well, everyone will just build a giant tower on one wood block. Defriend or get an ally to destroy that block. Then a large claimed structure will collapse causing the claim strength to spike thereby gaming the logic. The only thing that is broke with the current system is that hacking and exploits have exacerbated the rate of raided bases combined with poor player expectations to trying out multiplayer. To be clear, this is not even a pvp issue. This is a tower defense risk/reward game issue. Do the zombies care about not trashing the base too? Or how about when teams claim a store, or a whole city with their indestructible claims? There is value in having destructible claims because valuable areas and resources can be lost and regained.
  12. Do you have any statistics on how the playerbase is playing the game? Like... 80% of players are playing on single player/privately hosted servers. Eliminate the console population from that too. Why do you keep calling us hardcore PVP players, as if you are putting us in a category to foreshadow the oncoming dissapointment? There already is a way to "test the waters" with the claim strength modifiers. Set the mux at 64x and go to town. But you are operating on a playerbase's complaints when their negative experiences are 1 part tough-game-difficulty and 3 parts you-got-hacked/exploited and lost your stuff.
  13. I'm glad you are supportive of those recommendations. We need you to relay this stuff to TFP and make the case for why it is important. Wanted to post a little snipit of a situation of what I just ran into recently. I've seen Madmole claim in the past that the duping only hurts those players themselves. Well... not exactly. I've been playing on a somewhat poorly adminned server for a few weeks. The server runs fine. It's just the owner doesn't play much and the mods aren't very active in trying to ban abusers. It was more heavily monitored when it was a younger server. But we're getting up into the 500+ days now. Anyways, I have run into a team of exploiters and dupers that are wrecking everyone on the server. The server pop went from averaging 25 in prime time to about 12. These guys are glitching through doors and walls via terrain or maybe minibike chassis glitches. I have caught them inside my base in sealed off rooms that were impossible to get into multiple times. They are always max wellness the next day, no matter how many times we kill them. They always have a pile of ammo, steel, steel upgrade, pile of rare resources on them. Doesn't seem like they have any concern for value of resources. Decide I'm going to raid them and destroy all their resources that I can get at. They have a 25x25x30 block tall fully upgraded steel and upgraded steel base with a shallow moat and steel spikes. Perimeter claims outside the moat extend the protection zone out to about 30 blocks further. I have spent about 18 hours over the last week removing 8 perimeter claims late at night when they aren't online. Work on it a little bit each night. Doing it legitimately by mapping the claims out on the surface and carefully by entering beyond the claimed area and covering my tracks so they won't notice when they come back online. I removed the necessary, final 2 claims last night, which allowed me to frame up close enough to the base that I could easily jump in. But it's not going to be easy, because the whole base is steel and upgraded steel. I'm looking at a 3-4 hour raid in front of me to hit their loot room with a high level auger based on what I can see on the outside of the base. I spend yesterday collecting mats (75 repair kits, steel, food/drink, backup pickaxe, gas etc), upgrading a good auger to higher purple quality, and prepping a forward operating base close to theirs. I'm ready. I go to their base an hour ago and some other duper has exacted their own revenge on these turds while I was at work today by using hundreds of explosives to destroy all of the terrain surrounding their base. This revealed the gaps in their claims, since the explosives didn't destroy those blocks. The owners noticed this, and have now replaced the claims I removed and added another perimeter ring. All of my effort was for nothing. Tell us all again how dupers only hurt dupers Madmole.
  14. Most raids occur while players are offline because there is only a huge additional cost to doing it while the defenders are online. That is you are defending against someone that is spawning in the base trying to kill you. Where you are most likely bedrolled a ways away. The online/offline claim modifiers don't work. If they did, then servers could be configured such that there was a reason to conduct an online raid. For example, the online claim modifier would be 8x and the offline 64x. Well... maybe it's worth the risk to battle while breaking in because it will take you 8x longer to raid through that base while they are offline. Repairing blocks are also much faster than damaging a block at just about any multiplier. So you can literally be hitting a door for 10 minutes, then the guy walk by and repair it 2x and erase all of that. Why subject yourself to such pointlessness? A hokey scoreboard is simply that. It is meaningless. There is not much point in raiding someone if they get to keep their stuff. Stealing from other players rewards you with their resources and disadvantages other survivors because they are a weaker potential enemy. Where will be the incentive to build a good base if all your stuff gets returned to you? What is the point? This shouldn't be little league, where everyone gets a medal.
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