Decline in 7 Days Twitch Streamers

[xXBadDreamXx]

I watch people stream 7 days a lot when I get tired of playing and enjoy browsing different streams and sometimes help people that are new to the game. There seems to be a huge decline in people streaming this game now. 7 days is so far down in the games list now I start to wonder if it's even there. Typically it had 1500-2000 viewers at any given time but now can barely crack 400. I wonder what's going on?

[Ghostlight]

I wonder what's going on?

 

Really? Do you want to watch a play-through these days when the player spends the same points in the same order every time, gets the same (Int) perks at the same level to be able to craft the same stuff at the same point every time? How interesting is it when progression is no longer driven by randomness and looting? Same video every time, right? People want to watch sandbox play, not a linear RPG

[DUST2DEATH]

Grumbul who held the top streamer spot in the A17 stream event, hasnt streamed any 7 days since the 31st of January.

[Noompsie]

And Kickz is doing a replay of Alpha 8.8 just because he can lol. That tells me there is something very broken in A17.

[Roland]

There is: RWG

[Ranzera]

Yep, the only thing wrong with A17 is RWG. Everything else is great. Truly the greatest alpha.

[Roland]

Yep, the only thing wrong with A17 is RWG. Everything else is great. Truly the greatest alpha.

I think that paints too rosy a picture. Zombie AI still needs some work.

[Ranzera]

I think that paints too rosy a picture. Zombie AI still needs some work.

 

Among other things (just about everything)

[canadianbluebeer]

Zombie AI ayup. y'all know which part I hate

[Ghostlight]

There is: RWG

 

Having restarted quite a few times in A17, I feel the random layout of my map adds less variety to my play-throughs than the perk system takes away.

[Greymantle]

The bugs killed my server and my stream. Will wait for a more stable version before I play again.

[AtomicUs5000]

There are enough settings in 17.2 to make your skill path different.

I don't think it's RWG affecting streaming.

I believe and agree that the main issue in regards to streaming is the zombie AI.

More often than not, everybody wants to see the horde nights... but with the zombie AI the way it is right now, it doesn't matter much who you watch. They all have the same general setup of forcing zombies to follow some path so they can be mowed down. It was fun to watch the first time, but now not at all.

 

The new settings allow for games that are more centered around building and creativity, but this makes for good videos (sped up, with music, etc), but doesn't help for streams.

[PoppaTot]

I watch people stream 7 days a lot when I get tired of playing and enjoy browsing different streams and sometimes help people that are new to the game. There seems to be a huge decline in people streaming this game now. 7 days is so far down in the games list now I start to wonder if it's even there. Typically it had 1500-2000 viewers at any given time but now can barely crack 400. I wonder what's going on?

 

I hear ya, I used to get around 40 concurrent viewers on Twitch with A16.4 and I came to the game late. A17 drops and views went up. Fast-forward to present and I'm around 15 concurrent viewers. Most people pop in to see what the latest updates have brought, ask a few questions about AI and RWG, drop a follow and bounce. I switched back to CoD WW2 for fun this weekend and was back up to around 40-50 again.

 

I'm curious what an A16.4 play-through would produce at present....

[Scyris]

I hear ya, I used to get around 40 concurrent viewers on Twitch with A16.4 and I came to the game late. A17 drops and views went up. Fast-forward to present and I'm around 15 concurrent viewers. Most people pop in to see what the latest updates have brought, ask a few questions about AI and RWG, drop a follow and bounce. I switched back to CoD WW2 for fun this weekend and was back up to around 40-50 again.

 

I'm curious what an A16.4 play-through would produce at present....

 

My guess is prob more than a a17 playthru will, as many have said the lack of randomness in terms of finding the books really takes away a lot from the experence. The book for recipies also sort of made sense, it should have been even used for more things like each of the iron tools, a diff book for sledge, fire axe, pickaxe, hoe etc, or just a book for iron tools that covers pickaxe/fireaxe/hoe. I mean if your going to put a thing together, I mean you proballly could do it if you had a ton of time and a lot of spare parts incase of mistakes, but in most cases your going to be reading a manual as you do it.

 

Suddendly being able to craft a gun or something complex like that after spending a imaginary point into a skill and then somehow magically getting the knowledge on how to craft it kinda doesn't sit right with me, needing to learn it from a book however DOES make some sense. Lets not factor in how you turn junk into a fully working pistol or assault rifle, as thats a whole other can of worms, in that case the gun parts made much more sense as a whole.

 

I like a17's new graphics and I feel the combat is the best its ever been, but I feel the skill systrem and the lack of randomness to getting recipies really hurts the game in the long run.

[Cirion]

Disheartening to see there is no acknowledgement of the fact that a lot of players don't like the current perk system and there doesn't seem to be any plans to change them at all at this point or to at least see if the current system could be made better (not necessarily reversion to A16).

[Noompsie]

Disheartening to see there is no acknowledgement of the fact that a lot of players don't like the current perk system and there doesn't seem to be any plans to change them at all at this point or to at least see if the current system could be made better (not necessarily reversion to A16).

 

Agreed. I also am disheartened. Ive given A17 my best shot, and still love some of the things in it, but so much is missing now, with no plans to change it.

[Maje]

Here is what happened. The devs put a bunch of time and effort into the perk system. It appears a large portion of the player base does not like the perk system among most things. The devs cannot realize this because they invested so much time into it. Sometimes you have got to cut something loose when you've messed up, despite how much time you've put into it. Instead it is "we know best, we know how you should have fun"

 

It boggles my mind that the devs don't know what this game is. It's marketed as a survival game. Lets be real however. The devs thought they were creating a survival game, but instead they created was one of the best ever tower defense, sandbox, building, creative games ever... ever. It appears they're too thick to realize, people don't put 1000s of hours into a "survival game" when "survival" is all but learnt after 20-40 hours of game play. They made the things we like doing purposefully long and obtuse and more difficult. They made the things we were indifferent to, a requirement and tedious to ad nauseam

 

What person ever watched a stream consistently to learn about survival after playing for 40 hours? We played and watched people building cool stuff. We watched because we didn't know how people were going to progress. Guess what, we know now how the game progress, because it is a formula.

[Cirion]

Here is what happened. The devs put a bunch of time and effort into the perk system. It appears a large portion of the player base does not like the perk system among most things. The devs cannot realize this because they invested so much time into it. Sometimes you have got to cut something loose when you've messed up, despite how much time you've put into it. Instead it is "we know best, we know how you should have fun"

 

Yes this is an unfortunate but commonly known trend in the business world as "Escalation of Commitment"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escalation_of_commitment

 

Basically, one feels like they have already invested too much to abandon something now.

 

That could have been avoided if alphas were released in smaller increments instead of dropped in one big 1 yr load of work without critiqueing along the way.

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

Obviously, the drop is entirely due to whatever feature of 17.x you like the least. It's a clear sign that everyone agrees with your opinion and that the devs are fools to have implemented that feature and for not having reversed direction and reverted it upon seeing your displeasure.

[Bhaaltazar]

Here is what happened. The devs put a bunch of time and effort into the perk system. It appears a large portion of the player base does not like the perk system among most things. The devs cannot realize this because they invested so much time into it. Sometimes you have got to cut something loose when you've messed up, despite how much time you've put into it. Instead it is "we know best, we know how you should have fun"

 

It boggles my mind that the devs don't know what this game is. It's marketed as a survival game. Lets be real however. The devs thought they were creating a survival game, but instead they created was one of the best ever tower defense, sandbox, building, creative games ever... ever. It appears they're too thick to realize, people don't put 1000s of hours into a "survival game" when "survival" is all but learnt after 20-40 hours of game play. They made the things we like doing purposefully long and obtuse and more difficult. They made the things we were indifferent to, a requirement and tedious to ad nauseam

 

What person ever watched a stream consistently to learn about survival after playing for 40 hours? We played and watched people building cool stuff. We watched because we didn't know how people were going to progress. Guess what, we know now how the game progress, because it is a formula.

 

Yes A16.4 was one of the best games I have ever played. A17 cam I was very hyped about it - gave it a good play through - up to lvl 100+ couple of times utill A17.2 than I gave up. I was hoping devs would come around and not being so stubborn about the turnaround they picked. POI's, graphic upgrades, OK even zombie AI in certain cases was great, although overall was a missfire.

 

But A16 was as you said one of best tower defense, sandbox, BUILDING!!, exploring.... game I have ever played in like 30+ years since spectrum and commodore games ).

For me A16 was the game - all it needed was end game content ( A16 felt like midgame stage ). I was expecting in A17 that survivors would be added, bandits and you would take the fight back at the zombies. Building safe-zone settlements ( like the walking dead Alexandria ) and defend it against zombie hordes. Or some gameplay at the end game that gives you closure or satisfaction when you say OK im done with this map ( like clearing the map and make it safe for you and your settlers and start rebuilding the "civilization". ) Instead A17 game play just gave us watered down A16 experience that just got stretched and grindier progression.

 

Devs did some great work so far so it may be a bit unfair with just complaining, but for devs it may be good to make a step back and assess situation, because as I can see there are very few streamers on youtube and twitch that still plays 7d2d, except Kicks and Kage and even Kickz has a hard time to keep going and staying positive - which speaks volumes about the current state of this Alpha 17. But complaining and whining happens once you mess up with something people really liked A LOT.

 

Hope devs will see the new perk system was a mistake and they will rather refine and add new perks into A16 leveling system which they developed for 3-4years, RWG should remain on a land instead of island :\ and just add some end game content for the game after you reach the point at which you can easily fend against zombies and you would be given the higher purpose like saving survivors in tough situation and building survivor colonies or something alike. Just ask the players and open a dialog with them and ask them what they actually want.

[Aldranon]

Disheartening to see there is no acknowledgement of the fact that a lot of players don't like the current perk system and there doesn't seem to be any plans to change them at all at this point or to at least see if the current system could be made better (not necessarily reversion to A16).

 

The Problem:

The level gating of the Int perks is annoying as it feels artificial. Item mods and ammo production are the focus, unless you play a few specific builds or play a few game weeks and quit (that works well enough).

 

For most builds, there is a point where you can't find or buy enough ammo.

 

 

My solution:

I gave 40 points for my starter quest as I believe my character survived the Apocalypse so is not a sponge.

 

I gave one weapon (the now superlative Shotgun) and a set of so-so armor. This changed the whole game for me and I am really enjoying it as I have never explored the map so much or did so many quests!

 

 

Conclusion:

I would say drop level gates and just make some things cost more points than others.

[Ranzera]

Disheartening to see there is no acknowledgement of the fact that a lot of players don't like the current perk system and there doesn't seem to be any plans to change them at all at this point or to at least see if the current system could be made better (not necessarily reversion to A16).

 

It's not that there's no acknowledgement of that. It's that every time someone complains it's always the same "yes but some people like the new perk system" from a certain moderator.

 

They won't acknowledge that this perk system is hot garbage because certain people on the dev team like it. It scratches that fallout itch for them. Nevermind the fact that even Fallout fans think it's too damn simplified in the newer Fallout games.

 

It's a recipe for mediocrity.

[OzHawkeye]

Obviously, the drop is entirely due to whatever feature of 17.x you like the least. It's a clear sign that everyone agrees with your opinion and that the devs are fools to have implemented that feature and for not having reversed direction and reverted it upon seeing your displeasure.

 

Yes, I've got no issues with people complaining about some aspect or another of A17, but so many people seem to think that their complaint is what's driving everyone else!

 

I have issues with A17 too, but I don't for a second pretend or assume that they're anything other than my own personal preferences.

[Cirion]

Allright so yes I have an opinion, but what's not an opinion is that adding attributes removes freedom, and that's a fact, not opinion. I made a very lengthy post in the other thread describing just how so.

 

What's also a fact is that people defending the current system claim it adds more freedom which is objectively, not subjectively, not true, and opinions are one thing but I get frustrated when falsehoods like this are reported.

 

What IS an opinion is whether or not the reduction of freedom is a good thing or not.

 

At least have the intellectual honesty to admit you want something simpler, more streamlined - THIS is what A17 is. It's not more freedom of choice, it's not more open ended, but it IS simpler, more streamlined, easier to understand and follow, more predictable, less thinking involved and I guess that's what they were going for? I don't mind debating opinions and everyone is entitled to an opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts, and that's what I can't let slide.

 

This is part of the reason I am frustrated. & I am not the only one who thinks this, there are lots of other people who do as well. Many here have said the vast majority of their friends no longer even play the game anymore since A17 or have reverted to older versions, so no, I am not alone or close to alone.

[Roland]

What about sticking to your guns and following your vision? If you guys really are the majority isn’t it kind of admirable for a small plucky indie studio to stay true to what they want for the game instead of selling out to the cash grab represented by giving in to the masses?

 

If what you say is true about most players abandoning the game, that makes this a niche title that appeals to a small but devoted segment of the gaming community.

 

TFP never turned their game into a Battle Royale game or even emphasized PVP despite pressure from the majority. They’ve been called fools for ignoring the much more lucrative PVP market and catering to SP and PVE players. But their vision was for a SP or co-op experience and they have stuck to their guns.

 

The fact of the matter is that the devs chose the A17 design over the A16 design because they like it better and it fits their original plans for the game better. They actually do find it fun and rewarding even in its unfinished state.

 

If your mind is boggled by that, consider that not everyone has your set of preferences or your tastes. Not everyone plays the game the same way as you and nobody likes others to dictate to them how they should play the game even if it is the majority telling a developer how they should design their game.

 

TFP has always done things their way and they will continue to do so. Hang on or lets go but regardless the ride continues either way.

 

Your grievances are acknowledged and decisions will be made with them in mind.

 

In some cases balance tweaks will solve things, in other cases options will solve things, in rare cases implementations will be reversed, and in other cases nothing will be changed.