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Decline in 7 Days Twitch Streamers


xXBadDreamXx

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Ya, with LBD, when you think to yourself "Hmm, If I go mining right now, I will get mats, xp, and skillups!" Gives you a feeling of accomplishment.

 

Are we more free now? sure but it doesnt "feel" as good. I used to be able to play this game non-stop chasing a skilled up character and RNG drops. With the new system I am always finding myself just logging off randomly thinking "Meh, this isnt as fun as it once was"

 

Sure we can move up quicker in one specific area but we cant go out and non-stop do different things to reach our goals, our goal is always the same thing, more xp for more unlocks. It gets tedious, and lacks what was amazingly addicting and replayable about this game in the past.

 

That has some merit, on a realism level also some passive players will not enjoy the kill-fests that can sometimes happen in many POI's.

 

Can TFP do everything for everyone? Maybe. But Ford motor company once tried to make a car for everyone... The Edsel. :)

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That has some merit, on a realism level also some passive players will not enjoy the kill-fests that can sometimes happen in many POI's.

 

Can TFP do everything for everyone? Maybe. But Ford motor company once tried to make a car for everyone... The Edsel. :)

 

Is this even a response? or just a random anecdote. I mean, what does doing everything for everyone even have to do with what I said? *blinks*

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That has some merit, on a realism level also some passive players will not enjoy the kill-fests that can sometimes happen in many POI's.

 

Can TFP do everything for everyone? Maybe. But Ford motor company once tried to make a car for everyone... The Edsel. :)

 

Is this even a response? or just a random anecdote. I mean, what does doing everything for everyone even have to do with what I said? *blinks*

 

I think what I said in my previous post sums up why people see A17 as more linear.

 

-A16: Players had to do more activities to have access to respective perks.

-A17: Players tend to do the single most efficient activity and have access to any perk.

 

It's about the dominant player activities, not the bonuses they can access. So, yes more "player progression freedom", but achieved in a more linear way.

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While love the new skill trees ovrerall. There are a few things id prefer as not being perks. Like vehicles, using a perk point to craft a vehicle feels a bit unnatural. Id rather need a schematic and a certain level of intellect to use the schematic depending on the vehicle. It would bring back some randomness and feel a bit more natural.

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Some people do like it...true. But let's think about them for a minute...

 

It's obvious that casual players will prefer it because it takes less effort to get everything. No need to explore when you can unlock almost every item and craft it at top tier etc. So, check in that regard.

 

However I will stick my neck out further and state that a lot of the people who like the new perk system are simply WRONG. They simply haven't put enough hours into A17 nor restarted enough times to fully appreciate the blandness of the new perk system and the detriment it is to the game. There, I said it.

 

No you're wrong. There, i said it. Now what? Puhlease quit doing "the Trump" on all of us.

 

Cheers

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It's a game.

 

Some people really need to say this out loud slowly. ;)

People are eventually "through" with the content and move on.

Some people like it a lot and play it for months which is awesome... but that's not how the majority of players treats this or any game.

 

I wish I could comment on the "console situation" but even after the Telltale resolution it's a hugely complicated issue and no announcement of some plan or intention would improve anything.

 

 

So? That's about the amount of time that a non-die-hard fan invests in a game.

If a game entertains you for 50 hours that's above-average AAA game value. 100 hours is amazing.

 

TFP have the best voxel based environment running at this time. Use it. Stop making a Fallout clone that players will be done with in 50-100 hours. I can confidently say I have run across 0 people in the last 3 years playing this game (2720 hrs logged - only on multiplayer servers) that want that.

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TFP have the best voxel based environment running at this time. Use it. Stop making a Fallout clone that players will be done with in 50-100 hours. I can confidently say I have run across 0 people in the last 3 years playing this game (2720 hrs logged - only on multiplayer servers) that want that.

 

You have here. Me. And I have lots of friends that love it too. My wife hated 7 days to die. Now I got her to play every sat. So now what.

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I have noticed no dropoff in YouTube videos or twitch streaming that's any different from 16.4.

 

I think we might have new streamers, or people with short memories, that didnt expect such a dropoff 3 months after a major release.

 

I have been doing this game through 2013, alpha 1, non stop coverage. This is the norm. Major release, couple months later it drops off. Nothing new here. Has very little to do with alpha 17. This is confirmation bias for sure. Some people dont like alpha 17 and see this dropoff as proof no one likes it, when it's just the norm. I would argue it probably has more to do with the garbage going on with the console version more than anything. I still get tons of comments and questions about the console version.

 

Funny. I just watched your latest horde night video and turned it off when I saw the same methods used by most content creators, and that you have used for a few hordes in your current series. No offense, I've been watching your videos for a long time... just tired of that same horde night. Nothing much to see there, except maybe an excess of iron and wood bars in your build.

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Funny. I just watched your latest horde night video and turned it off when I saw the same methods used by most content creators, and that you have used for a few hordes in your current series. No offense, I've been watching your videos for a long time... just tired of that same horde night. Nothing much to see there, except maybe an excess of iron and wood bars in your build.

 

Totally irrelevant. You don't like my videos that's fine. But numbers are where they were 3 months into16.4. That's all I'm saying.

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You have here. Me. And I have lots of friends that love it too. My wife hated 7 days to die. Now I got her to play every sat. So now what.

 

How is this relevant information? No sarcasm intended, honestly.

 

Just offering up that your wife now plays a game with no reasoning why is useless knowledge. We could take that as: Ok, cool, so casual gamers will play it now... for how long? or Yes! A17 is wayyyy better now because a top 7DTD youtuber's wife likes it better. or Yep, that proves it, A17 catered to casuals and ruined the game.

 

It's all subjective as to how your statement is perceived by the reader at this point, you've added no context.

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Snip

 

Except it is true, you might be a great example. I have seen you state a few times you arent even playing it.

 

I was the same, I thought the system was fine at first. Then after several playthroughs, I cant even force myself to keep playing, though I try. It's like the things that made the game amazing were replaced with systems that make it bland in comparison.

 

With that in mind I know they arent done with it. In the back of my mind I am hoping they pull a miracle out of their butts, and more mods, legendary gear, bandits, making RWG work again, balance adjustments, ect will somehow bring things back to where its as good as it was. Part of me doubts that these additions will do it though.

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How is this relevant information? No sarcasm intended, honestly.

 

Just offering up that your wife now plays a game with no reasoning why is useless knowledge. We could take that as: Ok, cool, so casual gamers will play it now... for how long? or Yes! A17 is wayyyy better now because a top 7DTD youtuber's wife likes it better. or Yep, that proves it, A17 catered to casuals and ruined the game.

 

It's all subjective as to how your statement is perceived by the reader at this point, you've added no context.

 

The guy said he never met anyone that liked alpha 17. I'm just letting him know he has, me.

 

So casuals dont count huh? Only thinking of yourself I see? Cool. Well I'm not a casual but I want everyone to enjoy this awesome game. Glad to know where you stand.

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The guy said he never met anyone that liked alpha 17. I'm just letting him know he has, me.

 

So casuals dont count huh? Only thinking of yourself I see? Cool. Well I'm not a casual but I want everyone to enjoy this awesome game. Glad to know where you stand.

 

LMAO, you really took my statement of examples on how your statement could have been perceived as my personal opinion of casuals....

 

That's kind of sad Kage

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The reason why Certain People claim that the A17 skill system offers more freedom is that it objectively does.

 

In A16 you would have skill points but be stuck with them until you grind up the LBD construction or whatever skill to the required level, repeating a very specific action over and over. (opposite of freedom of choice)

 

In A17 you buy the attributes/perks you want and you would have multiple ways of progressing towards them.

A total of three crafting perks are level gated but only a single (and non-essential) one requires more than player level 100 out of 300 so that's not really punishing.

 

Despite some wild claims we know that not everyone picks the same perks. Not everyone feels the need to go deeply into intellect or any other attribute you care to name.

 

The issue with rose (or otherwise) tinted glasses is that they block certain wavelenghts of light so that you can not see as much. That's how tinted glass works.

 

Although I haven't yet formed an opinion on the original post, this statement is one I have a strong opinion on... you're comparing the a17 perk system to a16's. That's like putting a noose on someone and leaving them dangling (a16) and then putting a wobbly stool underneath (a17) and saying "see? It's better!" Technically is, sure, but still an uncomfortable position to be in. =)

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Totally irrelevant. You don't like my videos that's fine. But numbers are where they were 3 months into16.4. That's all I'm saying.

 

Didn't say I don't like your videos. I said I've been watching them for a long time. Basically all of them, no matter the game. What I understand is your viewership is watching not just for the game, but because they simply like watching you. The people that rushed in to see what was new are gone, and what are left are fans. I already knew your horde night video was going to be the same, but I watched up until that point because I like your videos. But, when that time came, I turned it off because it's old.... and it's not just your videos. I'm saying this is the case for all content of this game lately.

Now you cannot tell me that since A16 your overall viewership has not increased. I know as a partner myself, it very well has. So, if your viewership is the same as back then, there indeed is a problem. I'm probably subbed to 10 7D2D players. It was their staple all throughout A16. But now, in A17, they just don't play as much. They've moved on to several other games instead... looking for some kind of replacement to fill in that void. They post a few videos with each update, tweaking their new settings, hoping for just a glimmer of excitement. While these numbers you speak of still may apply to you, even though I think they are skewed like I said, you are only one person and should not base your conclusions that the overall viewership of 7D2D content is down because it should be at this time on solely your own experience.

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I have noticed no dropoff in YouTube videos or twitch streaming that's any different from 16.4.

 

I think we might have new streamers, or people with short memories, that didnt expect such a dropoff 3 months after a major release.

 

I have been doing this game through 2013, alpha 1, non stop coverage. This is the norm. Major release, couple months later it drops off. Nothing new here. Has very little to do with alpha 17. This is confirmation bias for sure. Some people dont like alpha 17 and see this dropoff as proof no one likes it, when it's just the norm. I would argue it probably has more to do with the garbage going on with the console version more than anything. I still get tons of comments and questions about the console version.

 

Now I have an opinion. Someone with a decent sized representative sample, who happens to be a numbers guy, has weighed in on the OP. Can't help but agree with him, Like him, hate him, he's gonna be the expert on this one.

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LMAO, you really took my statement of examples on how your statement could have been perceived as my personal opinion of casuals....

 

That's kind of sad Kage

 

Well to be fair is that not what you meant? I'm really curious.

 

Didnt you say my alpha 17 catered to casuals and ruined the game? If I'm missing something let me know.

 

Would you not have the fun pimps ignore casuals and just make the game your way?

 

If so cant we have both? Or is that impossible?

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How is this relevant information? No sarcasm intended, honestly.

 

Just offering up that your wife now plays a game with no reasoning why is useless knowledge. We could take that as: Ok, cool, so casual gamers will play it now... for how long? or Yes! A17 is wayyyy better now because a top 7DTD youtuber's wife likes it better. or Yep, that proves it, A17 catered to casuals and ruined the game.

 

It's all subjective as to how your statement is perceived by the reader at this point, you've added no context.

 

Its not like a streamer is gonna say, "Ya a17 sucks" on the forum. Who would go watch him play after that. Does Kage even play the game Vanilla, or heavily modded? Thinking a heavily modded version of the game is great is a whole nother animal.

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It's a useful indicator.

 

A lot of feedback is so unspecific that this is all you can take from it anyway.

Then there is the over the top detailed feedback which is specific but from maybe 3 rabid fans that are in no way representative of the player base.

It's complicated. ;)

 

Then it comes down to y'all only being able to take feedback from the articulate, which is ALSO a flawed method. =)

 

A17's perk system sucks. The FACT that almost every thread complaining about a17, even if it doesn't originally mention the perk system, devolves into this argument should be eye opening, imo.

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Well to be fair is that not what you meant? I'm really curious.

 

Didnt you say my alpha 17 catered to casuals and ruined the game? If I'm missing something let me know.

 

Would you not have the fun pimps ignore casuals and just make the game your way?

 

If so cant we have both? Or is that impossible?

 

Honestly, no, that is not what I meant. I understand that you aren't on the forums daily, but that is literally how a few (a lot?) of people would have taken your statement.

 

I did not say your A17 catered to casuals, I said that is one possible way your statement could have been perceived.

 

I would not have TFP just cater to me, I have gone on record here multiple times saying that I enjoy A17, I just enjoyed the progression and RNG of A16 more.

 

We can't have it both ways because TFP have already gone on record saying the perk system is here to stay. Doesn't mean I won't play the game. It is still enjoyable, just less enjoyable to me.

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Its not like a streamer is gonna say, "Ya a17 sucks" on the forum. Who would go watch him play after that. Does Kage even play the game Vanilla, or heavily modded? Thinking a heavily modded version of the game is great is a whole nother animal.

 

...you haven't met Capp00 then. At least, I'm pretty sure it was him. Could be wrong on this one, I get their names confused because I'm not a viewer, but one of them was railing against the game, while being on the official stream team.

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...you haven't met Capp00 then. At least, I'm pretty sure it was him. Could be wrong on this one, I get their names confused because I'm not a viewer, but one of them was railing against the game, while being on the official stream team.

 

Glock9 had a meltdown in one of his videos over the state of A17 and then posted a message saying he is going to take sometime away from 7DTD.

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Didn't say I don't like your videos. I said I've been watching them for a long time. Basically all of them, no matter the game. What I understand is your viewership is watching not just for the game, but because they simply like watching you. The people that rushed in to see what was new are gone, and what are left are fans. I already knew your horde night video was going to be the same, but I watched up until that point because I like your videos. But, when that time came, I turned it off because it's old.... and it's not just your videos. I'm saying this is the case for all content of this game lately.

Now you cannot tell me that since A16 your overall viewership has not increased. I know as a partner myself, it very well has. So, if your viewership is the same as back then, there indeed is a problem. I'm probably subbed to 10 7D2D players. It was their staple all throughout A16. But now, in A17, they just don't play as much. They've moved on to several other games instead... looking for some kind of replacement to fill in that void. They post a few videos with each update, tweaking their new settings, hoping for just a glimmer of excitement. While these numbers you speak of still may apply to you, even though I think they are skewed like I said, you are only one person and should not base your conclusions that the overall viewership of 7D2D content is down because it should be at this time on solely your own experience.

 

That's not how YouTube works. Everytime the game updates views are a little less than the years before. They have been dropping a little from year to year, they peaked at the console release. If anything this year is up a bit from 16.4. Growth figures a little into it.

 

Honestly I think part of the good numbers is because others have stopped, or done less videos. People cant watch them so they go to someone else.

 

Some people watch just for me I guess. And growth has an effect. But I'm not seeing the dropoff people are talking about. If alpha 17 was that bad on a global level, not just the .001% of the people on the forums complaining, I'd feel it. Trust me.

 

For the record I dont mean the forum people passion and feelings on 17 dont matter, of course they do. Just saying most of the people playing a17 dont come to forums and never even think about them.

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What about sticking to your guns and following your vision? If you guys really are the majority isn’t it kind of admirable for a small plucky indie studio to stay true to what they want for the game instead of selling out to the cash grab represented by giving in to the masses?

 

If what you say is true about most players abandoning the game, that makes this a niche title that appeals to a small but devoted segment of the gaming community.

 

TFP never turned their game into a Battle Royale game or even emphasized PVP despite pressure from the majority. They’ve been called fools for ignoring the much more lucrative PVP market and catering to SP and PVE players. But their vision was for a SP or co-op experience and they have stuck to their guns.

 

The fact of the matter is that the devs chose the A17 design over the A16 design because they like it better and it fits their original plans for the game better. They actually do find it fun and rewarding even in its unfinished state.

 

If your mind is boggled by that, consider that not everyone has your set of preferences or your tastes. Not everyone plays the game the same way as you and nobody likes others to dictate to them how they should play the game even if it is the majority telling a developer how they should design their game.

 

TFP has always done things their way and they will continue to do so. Hang on or lets go but regardless the ride continues either way.

 

...

 

 

Typically if developers have this attitude, they don't release in early access, or at least should refrain from doing so. If all the devs want is bug testers instead of people with actual opinions about gameplay and features, then the responsible thing to do is release a game in beta, not alpha.

 

You can say 'oh but people want different things'...but you and I, and everybody who has been reading this forum since alpha 12 or so (I wasn't around before that) has to admit that this particular alpha has sparked the most complaints, and it is typically about the same things.

 

During past few alphas, the biggest gripes I ever recall on this forum were the minibikes disappearing; the way zombies would spawn right next to you while you were fighting; and spam crafting. If anyone has asked for something absurd, like battle royale, it's for sure an extreme minority of the player base.

 

Now the main complaint is that the game isn't fun anymore. Wow.

 

And why isn't it fun anymore? Because of various core things implemented in A17, whether it's the perks, or the ai (which fair enough is being worked on), or the lack of RNG, or the new stamina system, or features being pulled or streamlined too much. These same complaints are being brought up again and again and again by lots of different people. There are only a handful of people saying they are actually happy, and some of them appear to be staff. Staff who are sometimes quite dismissive, and act as if complaints are a personal attack from haters, or whiners, instead of well thought out petitions from dedicated fans.

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