You cant balance Sp and Mp in the same game

[LuckyStar]

Well i said it in my OP. Give us an option to set how many skill points we get per level. Pretty simple solution I think. We have settings like that for other things.

 

Yeah right now Modding is the only way to do that but... a setting.... yeah maybe.

 

Thing is, we've got to be selective about the settings we ask for.

I can see by the forum posts that TFP are listening.

I can also see that some staff are frustrated that players don't understand how difficult adding all those settings can be.

[Combinations and iterations and then there's testing and balancing.]

 

I'm not saying your idea isn't a good one an that it shouldn't be on the list....

 

 

... I just wonder, for something that's so easy to mod, literally just changing one number in an XML, if TFP would bother.

[WolfyBlah]

So what's your suggestion to solve this?

 

We have completely different rule sets for SP and MP?

That also requires locking in SP to your save kinda thing doesn't it?

 

Pretty sure it works this way already anyway (or at least did in 16.4), games created in SP couldnt be switched to MP and vice versa (without dragging/dropping files at least).

[Kosmic Kerman]

Joel and Roland primarily play solo player. I don’t think Joel is tweaking the game solely for multiplayer. Or tweaking the game for MP specialization. He wants to create a game that allows specialization in SP. He also wants to create a game where your choices have consequences.

 

I really don’t see TFP trying to balance the game exclusively for MP. I’m pretty sure that when the game goes to stable it will be balanced for SP exactly as TFP intends. At which point people can tweak the xmls to their liking or install a mod.

[LuckyStar]

Pretty sure it works this way already anyway (or at least did in 16.4), games created in SP couldnt be switched to MP and vice versa (without dragging/dropping files at least).

 

Okay so the mechanic for it is already in place.

 

That's one step in the right direction.

 

Now we just have to figure out step two... and then...

 

 

- Profit

[WolfyBlah]

Yeah right now Modding is the only way to do that but... a setting.... yeah maybe.

 

Thing is, we've got to be selective about the settings we ask for.

I can see by the forum posts that TFP are listening.

I can also see that some staff are frustrated that players don't understand how difficult adding all those settings can be.

[Combinations and iterations and then there's testing and balancing.]

 

I'm not saying your idea isn't a good one an that it shouldn't be on the list....

 

 

... I just wonder, for something that's so easy to mod, literally just changing one number in an XML, if TFP would bother.

 

Thats the thing though, because it is litteraly just changing one number in that (and some other) cases there's not real testing or balanceing around it to do. All the work involved is creating the UI and hooking it up.

[Kirtonos]

I really don’t see TFP trying to balance the game.

 

Fixed that for you.

[LuckyStar]

Thats the thing though, because it is litteraly just changing one number in that (and some other) cases there's not real testing or balanceing around it to do. All the work involved is creating the UI and hooking it up.

 

Haha you know I was thinking that right after reading my post.

 

"Someone could use that very point and make a case against me really easily. It's literally just one number."

 

Hahahaha.... and then you did!

 

[AtomicUs5000]

SP is hard, and I love it.

[Wulf]

You have to play differently between SP and MP. If the mind-set was a picture it would be this:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26403[/ATTACH]

 

I hope you know the backstory of that picture?

If you don't: Romeo, the wolf who loved too much

[myrkana]

if you don't like how things are for singleplayer you can always edit the .xml files or just us the debug menu to give yourself exp to get points with. Or just spawn in a motorcycle to use. The base settings are not the end all be all of everything.

[icehot]

Bear in mind, there already is a difference in MP and SP with levelling - the XP points are much less per person in a party, so 2 or 3 people will get their next level slower if they're killing at the same rate 1 person would kill at in SP.

[LuckyStar]

I hope you know the backstory of that picture?

If you don't: Romeo, the wolf who loved too much

 

What a beautiful story.

 

[WolfyBlah]

Bear in mind, there already is a difference in MP and SP with levelling - the XP points are much less per person in a party, so 2 or 3 people will get their next level slower if they're killing at the same rate 1 person would kill at in SP.

 

Is this confirmed?

There are also more (and tougher) zombies with more players.

[icehot]

Is this confirmed?

There are also more (and tougher) zombies with more players.

 

Yeah have you not tried it? Instead of 550 xp for a normal zombie kill, you'd get much less for that kill, spread out between all the players (when they're in a party together). Not sure what the actual ratio is, but it's definitely less.

[WolfyBlah]

Yeah have you not tried it? Instead of 550 xp for a normal zombie kill, you'd get much less for that kill, spread out between all the players (when they're in a party together). Not sure what the actual ratio is, but it's definitely less.

 

Thats pretty unfortunate to be honest, multiplayer having inherently slower progression XP wise makes playing in a group not very appealing. (If they want us to specialize so much then it actualy makes *more* sense if only 1 or 2 people fight most of the zombies while others build ect)

[LuckyStar]

Thats pretty unfortunate to be honest, multiplayer having inherently slower progression XP wise makes playing in a group not very appealing.

 

Disagree.

 

Not only does it make sense, more people, less xp, it makes the fun experience last a little longer.

 

MP games can be a ton of fun and building up when you're laughing with your friends makes the game go by quickly.

I like this idea! I think it's great.

 

Well.... unless [cough] ..... you don't have any friends.

[WolfyBlah]

Disagree.

 

Not only does it make sense, more people, less xp, it makes the fun experience last a little longer.

 

MP games can be a ton of fun and building up when you're laughing with your friends makes the game go by quickly.

I like this idea! I think it's great.

 

Well.... unless [cough] ..... you don't have any friends.

 

Tomato, tomato.

Makes the fun last a little longer, added grind.

-

So let me put forth a scenario, i play with 1 buddy who really likes looting and fighting zombies, he does loot runs while i build up a solid base.

In this scenario making both players level slower simply because they are playing together is... ehh? So should he leave the party before going out so he can actually level up?

[n2n1]

Agree with OP.

When i make a mod, i separate the settings files for SP and MP.

[Noompsie]

What if you don’t agree with the premise that you can’t balance for SP and MP PVE. The history of Kage’s posts on A17 strongly suggests he finds it too grindy and/or too hard for SP. Personally I don’t agree that it is too grindy or too hard. More importantly I don’t think what Kage is displeased about has a whole lot to do with balancing MP PVE and SP. Is MVP PVE easier? Sure. But I think this is best handled by adjusting the difficulty level, not by changing skill points for SP.

 

Now if this thread was about the impossibility of balancing for SP, MP PVE, and PVP, I would agree 100%. More often than not balancing for PVP mucks up SP/PVE and balancing for SP/PVE mucks up PVP.

 

So you decided to answer this post based on your opinion of Kage's previous post history? That's even worse than answering in a sarcastic manner.

 

I'm sure that people here have played Ark and are familiar with the UI and settings available in that game. That is what I want in 7D2D; sliders and buttons so that anyone, server owners or single player peeps, are able to adjust the difficulty, harvest, experience gain etc, settings to suit their game style.

And yes, I am aware that the game is in alpha, that is why I am making this suggestion.

[Noompsie]

Originally posted by Scyris: "I agree, I don't know what they did but v231 seems like a huge step backwards, they nerfed block damage when I feel it finally was done well, stam regen also seems slower somewhat, clothes seem to have 1 mod slot now but I can't seem to find anything that goes in them yet, I figured something like cooling mesh would go into it... nope. Water use seems to be at double or triple the rate b221 is, and I never had the perk for slower food/water degreadation.

 

I am also have an issue with 100% gpu use on a gtx 1070, never seen that happen before in any version of 7 days to die so far till b231, and I can't figure out why as I don't notice anything looking much better.

 

The game needs a +stamina per second perk like a16 had."

 

I started a new game last night and am feeling exactly the same, thought it must be me lol.

[Jarod_Silverstar]

I have stated several times on the forums here that I would like to see different progressions for SP vs MP. I am not a PvP player but perfer the cooperative version of MP, so in my opinion long term specialization is fine there. For SP, a character needs to be able to master many different areas to really be able to end game.

[JCrook1028]

Yeah have you not tried it? Instead of 550 xp for a normal zombie kill, you'd get much less for that kill, spread out between all the players (when they're in a party together). Not sure what the actual ratio is, but it's definitely less.

 

That's true and untrue at the same time. Instead of a SP player getting 550 for a zombie kill in MP 3 players each get 440 (it drops 10% per additional player iirc)...... So that same zombie gives 1320 xp instead of the base 550. That is what makes MP so easy. Nearly triple the xp to be shared among the specializations of the team. Perhaps the answer to balance is to force the 3 player to split the 550 xp? That gets rid of the accidental "kill steal" xp issue and also ensures all team members get rewarded for their efforts in a group activity.

[HungryZombie]

Well...

 

... I reject your interpretation of someone else's interpretation of someone else's thoughts expressed as words reflecting their perceived experience of an event and/or idea and substitute it with my own.

 

CLEARLY the post was about how Pizza is INDEED the best food on the planet.

 

At this point I'm not sure how you could have possibly missed something so obvious.

 

 

I'm sorry my friend. I didn't mean to offend.

[Scyris]

Bear in mind, there already is a difference in MP and SP with levelling - the XP points are much less per person in a party, so 2 or 3 people will get their next level slower if they're killing at the same rate 1 person would kill at in SP.

 

Its only 10% less, but you have 3 people killing things, its actually much faster than solo for leveling.

[warmer]

As someone that has played 90% SP I see zero issue with the new system. It makes SP even easier. Before it was honestly WAY harder. I've been playing since A6 and have put in at least 10 hours on every build since then. The current system is the best SP balance I have seen thus far. The reason I don't play MP is due to the majority of the servers I have played on, kill on sight was the norm and that just annoys the piss out of me.