Feycat Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Does that mean it just breaks now? Because the fact that it downgraded to cement was the best thing about it, it gave you a chance to save the wall before it totally caved in! If you have to craft a whole new block and try to place it while zombies are reaching through, well that's game over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSBX Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Go into creative mode and find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feycat Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 Useful post, +1 helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 With voxels blocks losing value like the Dow Jones, I can start to imagine that TFP want to do a Non-voxel game after 2019. Get people into the thinking that voxel games are history (that or send them back to Minecraft). The world wonders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam R. Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 This is the new situation with block hit points and upgrade/downgrade paths as of A17 b208: Wood Frame (50 hp) <-> Wood Block (225 hp) <->RWood Block (225 hp) <-> RWood metal reinforced (300 hp) | 850 hp total (50 hp increase) Scrap iron frame (100 hp) <-> Iron block (1000 hp) <-> RIron Block (1000 hp) | 2100 hp total (unchanged) Flagstone (500 hp) -> Cobblestone (1500 hp) (unchanged) Bricks (1200 hp) (unchanged) RIron/Cobble/Bricks ->Concrete Block (2500 hp)/Rebar frame ->RConcrete Block (5000 hp) <-> Steel Block (7000 hp) | 12000 hp total (7000 hp decrease) Stainless Steel blocks can not be achieved by players anymore (Steel polish is removed) and have changed to have 10000 hp, can be repaired with regular forged steel and downgrade to Rconcrete, totalling to 15k hp. I'm not really sure, I assume the nerf of top materials is to make them less OP in comparison to lower tier materials. I don't agree with removing the downgrade from Rconcrete to concrete as well. The 20% increase of the wood upgrade path seems insignificant at first sight. I wonder what's the balancing goal of this and how much zombie damage will be tweaked. Would love to hear a bit of an explanation from the devs here as I/we can only make assumptions and don't have "the greater picture" in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehot Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 It wasn't in the patch notes, but I've been looking through the XML files, and it appears the damage zombies make against blocks has decreased. So these block HP changes were probably to balance that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyris Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 It wasn't in the patch notes, but I've been looking through the XML files, and it appears the damage zombies make against blocks has decreased. So these block HP changes were probably to balance that. Any idea of the new values compared to the old ones from b199 by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzHawkeye Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 It wasn't in the patch notes, but I've been looking through the XML files, and it appears the damage zombies make against blocks has decreased. So these block HP changes were probably to balance that. There is a note in the patch file about zombie block damage: Lower quality materials like wood are 20% more durable against zombies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyris Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 There is a note in the patch file about zombie block damage: Lower quality materials like wood are 20% more durable against zombies It also said they changed vulture attack delay but the values in items/xml for its "weapon" seem unchanged <item name="meleeHandAnimalZombieVulture"> <property name="Extends" value="meleeHandMaster"/> <property name="CreativeMode" value="None"/> <property name="HoldType" value="35"/> <property class="Action0"> <property name="Delay" value="0.7"/> <!-- obsolete if rounds per minute exists --> <property name="DamageEntity" value="8"/> <property name="DamageBlock" value="8"/> <property name="Buff" value="buffInjuryBleeding,buffIllInfection0"/> </property> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzHawkeye Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 It also said they changed vulture attack delay but the values in items/xml for its "weapon" seem unchanged <item name="meleeHandAnimalZombieVulture"> <property name="Extends" value="meleeHandMaster"/> <property name="CreativeMode" value="None"/> <property name="HoldType" value="35"/> <property class="Action0"> <property name="Delay" value="0.7"/> <!-- obsolete if rounds per minute exists --> <property name="DamageEntity" value="8"/> <property name="DamageBlock" value="8"/> <property name="Buff" value="buffInjuryBleeding,buffIllInfection0"/> </property> Well, I definitely haven't gone through the new XML's yet, so I couldn't confirm or deny that. Are you sure the XML was overwritten by the update? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmic Kerman Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Does that mean it just breaks now? Because the fact that it downgraded to cement was the best thing about it, it gave you a chance to save the wall before it totally caved in! If you have to craft a whole new block and try to place it while zombies are reaching through, well that's game over! It was a fix. Not a change. It should work as it did in A16. https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?74084-Developer-Discussions-Alpha-17&p=886048&viewfull=1#post886048 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehot Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Not just against wood, actually I haven't seen how they did the wood bit - however the new values for zombie block damage seem to be a lot better. The following list has the attacks zombies can do, from the b199 file and the b208 file - note this is block damage only not entity damage: meleeHandZombie01 - old: 20, new: 16 meleeHandZombie02Feral - old: 40, new: 32 meleeHandZombieCop - old: 250, new: 200 meleeHandZombieCopFeral - old 500, new: 220 meleeHandZombieFeral - old: 40, new: 32 meleeHandZombieFootballPlayerFeral - old: 40, new: 32 meleeHandZombieHazMatFeral - old: 40, new: 32 meleeHandZombieStripperFeral - old: 40, new: 32 meleeHandZombieStrong - old: 50, new: 40 meleeHandZombieStrongFeral - old: 100, new: 80 meleeHandZombieWorker - old: 100, new: 80 meleeHandZombieWorkerFeral - old: 250, new: 200 You can easily see from that the zombies you should concentrate on for horde night, they definitely have a couple a tank zombies there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam R. Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 It was a fix. Not a change. It should work as it did in A16. https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?74084-Developer-Discussions-Alpha-17&p=886048&viewfull=1#post886048 But that's NOT how it was in a16. I'm confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSBX Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Does that mean it just breaks now? Because the fact that it downgraded to cement was the best thing about it, it gave you a chance to save the wall before it totally caved in! If you have to craft a whole new block and try to place it while zombies are reaching through, well that's game over! Having gone into creative mode to find out, yes. The block no longer downgrades, it's destroyed completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmic Kerman Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 But that's NOT how it was in a16. I'm confused. The tester, Joe, said it downgrades now. TSBX said he just tested it and says it doesn’t. I have a headache now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yisiscreise Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Well, the problem in this alpha is that they are killing the base defenses. Now u cant spend hours in create a great base with great defenses, because the zombies destroy every building in seconds, and they removed the log spikes, thing that i see as a GREAT mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feycat Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 But that's NOT how it was in a16. I'm confused. The thing is, if you upgraded the block from flagstone to concrete to reinforced concrete, it would downgrade. If you built it out of rebar in the first place, it wouldn't. It was like the block remembered how it was built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krougal Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Oh, I'm so confused now. So is it supposed to downgrade or not? What if you build it out of wet cement block? Rebar frame has always been a head scratcher for me too, if we're building the concrete with rebar, then it IS reinforced concrete. Rebar is short for reinforcing bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmic Kerman Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 The thing is, if you upgraded the block from flagstone to concrete to reinforced concrete, it would downgrade. If you built it out of rebar in the first place, it wouldn't. It was like the block remembered how it was built. Are you talking A16 or A17 here. It's hard to keep all this straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCrook1028 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 The thing is, if you upgraded the block from flagstone to concrete to reinforced concrete, it would downgrade. If you built it out of rebar in the first place, it wouldn't. It was like the block remembered how it was built. Nope, That's flat out wrong. If you placed it as rebar it would still downgrade to regular concrete in A16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zourin Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 So.. IRWood: paper Flagstone: paper Cobblestone: Paper RIron: kinda okay Concrete: king as always. Shoot the cops. Shoot the yellowhats. Screw it, molotov them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Yeah, it's not a big change overall. Early materials are A BIT more durable but zombies will eventually "encourage" you to upgrade. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vedui Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 It does indeed feel like where in A16 people complained zombies destroyed walls quickly, in A17 they destroyed them... a lot quicker. With the (10% per each zombie?) damage bonus the zombie horde gets, they seem to just tear through blocks like there's no tomorrow. I did a quick test, lvl 50 (which is still fairly mid level, can barely make the motorcycle), day 7 horde, and there were wights. They do base 250 hp against blocks per hit. Not even counting the extra damage for being in a horde. That's not a lot of hits to destroy even a concrete block, and while rconcrete or steel fares a bit better, that's just 1 wight And since they all seem to home in on the "easiest path" there's more in one spot too. An issue in A16 was heavy hitting zombies, and not enough (quantity) of zombies. But you could bump up the quantity. Now they're so deadly bumping them up just means you get a rubble around you faster, as there's no way you can actively handle 12-16 zombies at a time and prevent them from bashing your "castle" down I like the horde bonus. I like having some heavy hitting zombies. But I'm not sure making base walls weaker is the way to go. Just the horde bonus alone makes it a lot harder to defend against. /V - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feycat Posted November 29, 2018 Author Share Posted November 29, 2018 Yeah, it's not a big change overall. Early materials are A BIT more durable but zombies will eventually "encourage" you to upgrade. =) Can you explain the patch note though? Does this mean that reinforced concrete does, or does not, downgrade to regular concrete? Or is it just straight up breaking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyStar Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 So Rcon doens't downgrade to Concrete anymore and we also can't upgrade to stainless steel. Some big changes in A17 that's for sure. Gonna have to adapt to a whole new bag of TFP tricks. It's a little worrisome but time will tell what it all means in the big zombie picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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