Crafting Gates

[Keyller76]

I think books could give some bonus instead of unlock crafting.

You read a book on guns ? Now you can fix it easily and be more precise.

You read a cookbook ? Now your preparations feeds better.

You read a book on tools ? Now your tools are more durable.

etc

 

If you don't find any book, you can craft everything i your character got the level.

If you find a book, you will do somethings better.

 

PS : sorry if my english is not really good

[Junuxx]

I voted for I like both, but I like level gating more than book/schematic gating.

[Mr. Fusion™]

If you want that every new game you play is a unique experience then the answer is yes.

+1 for random books,... from me.

[Zombiepoptard]

Right now crafting is in a bit of a flux condition. The skills and perks having to do with crafting are not hooked up right now and the role of books is still developing so they aren't hooked up either. This is temporary and I don't even know what the developers will settle on-- although there is a clue in that the gun recipes, at least, include gun schematics as one of the ingredients.

 

At any rate, presently you know all recipes from day 1 and there are no level gates preventing you from crafting anything even as a level one character. The only restrictions right now are having access to the correct workstation and having the correct tool inserted in the tool slot for that workstation.

 

This brought up a concern that those who prefer to have random books and achieving requisite levels before being able to craft something will have their way of playing removed. What are your thoughts?

 

Honestly I think removing these gates is a wrong move. I want more goals in 7dtd not less. People will be able to sink into the gameplay if you gate somethings from them. Books, guns and other loot only items have been exciting things to find because of their rare chances to get picked up. You shouldn't be able to craft guns, you shouln't do away with schemayics and you should make more rare loot. It's the thrill of the hunt for rare loot that keeps some of us playing. Don't cater to casual inpatient players I play this game for the tuff love.

[SylenThunder]

I voted for I like both, but I like level gating more than book/schematic gating.

Ditto here

[Jacoviz]

I Think is cool to have to use the gun schematics in the recipe and it even make sense. In this way you make the guns harder to craft, you can't spam craft them once you have learn the recipe and you make the schematics useful even in the late game.

[icharis]

I don't like that books are consumed by use, we should be able to read a book and then share it with someone else. Also, reading a book doesn't have to be an instant action, reading could take up time in your crafting que or perhaps add an equipment slot for books that would unlock recipes as a timer runs down.

[sargentcobra]

Why not have an option were you can choose to have it gated or not like u have an option for loot respawns or not. That way everyone is happy

[Hockallz]

Also, reading a book doesn't have to be an instant action, reading could take up time in your crafting que or perhaps add an equipment slot for books that would unlock recipes as a timer runs down.

 

Now that's a solid idea. +1

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

I like finding recipes in books. It makes scavenging more interesting and makes each game different to the last. But it does have the drawback that if the RNG is against you, you might never find the book you need.

 

Level-gated unlocks are also good. They stop you getting stuff straight away and force some pacing on you instead of you rushing to get the best recipes straight away.

 

However, one issue I have with A16 is that some of the recipe-based perks don't just have a level gate but also other skill levels as prerequisites. The one that always grates with me is Concrete. To make a cement mixer and make concrete, you not only need to be high enough level to buy the perk, but you also need to have a high enough mining skill. That annoys me because with my playstyle I don't mine - I only build small bases, not big monstrosities, and I get more than enough stone either digging or breaking boulders with a stone axe (which counts as a "Construction" tool rather than a "Mining" tool so my mining never increases unless I'm digging up clay with a shovel). Consequently I end up having to mine for the sake of it just to get my skill up so I can buy Concrete Mixing even if I'm already high enough level to get it.

 

So with that in mind, I think the ideal would be:

 

1. Recipes are level-gated, but not skill gated; it doesn't matter how you got the level since it's a pacing mechanism rather than a "realism" mechanism. If you're high enough level you get the recipe regardless of which perks/skills you previously bought.
   
2. Recipes are also found in books. The books must be scavenged, and aren't sold by traders.
   
3. Reading the book lowers the level requirement for the recipe by a significant amount rather than giving you the recipe automatically. You can't read the same book more than once to get cumulative level requirements, but there might be some overlap between books - there doesn't have to be a one-to-one mapping between books and recipes. For example, you might read a gun book that gives you -5 levels to all gun recipes, and another that gives you -5 levels to shotguns. You can only read each of them once, but if you read them both you'd get -10 levels to shotgun recipes and -5 to other gun recipes.

 

The reason I like the above way of doing things is:

 

• Even if you're really lucky and find a book on day one, you still have to meet the reduced level requirement to unlock the recipe, so being lucky doesn't give you something ridiculous like steel or a jeep straight away.
  
• Conversely, no matter how unlucky you are a recipe will always be unlocked when you meet the non-reduced level requirement, so you aren't permanently locked out of a recipe just because the RNG decided to never give you the book.
  
• And the books not being sold by traders gives you an incentive to go and take some risks scavenging for them, rather than staying at home crafting stuff to sell to a trader.

[Kamouille]

I remember the "forge ahead" book. Week three without a forge, sometimes you were better off restarting from scratch. Now in A16 you have to go round all the libraries to find the minibike book. And once you've got it you'll get three more in the next few days and it's just useless.

 

Level gating is also quite silly. You're like: Ok I've got everything I need to make a workbench, but now I have to go and kill 50 zombies so I can unlock the skill...

 

So I am against books and level gating recipees. I'm more in favour of perks/skills gating recipees. And why not have (very rare) books unlocking those skills.

[Melthe]

I voted for the Level gated, but I am really okay with one or the other, RNG tends to hate me more than going in my favor and many times I have started a game and I have to search for ever to get either the minibike or the crossbow books. So as long as it is either Level gated or book based I would be happier.

[eidobunny]

I like the books. It encourages you to get out and loot and take risks to find the recipes that are important to you.

 

Level-gating and skill points just never made sense to me. Kill a million zombies, well I guess now I know how to mix concrete.

[skullpoker]

I don't like books or level gated crafting skills, but I don't have a better alternative. As for needing a schematic for each gun you make, the schematics should be about twice as common as they are. In my last game on 90 minute days, it took over 2 weeks to find a pistol schematic. So while I had a decent stock of low level pistols I couldn't repair, disassemble, and combine them to get a better quality pistol.

 

In that case, I have to ask if guns are still found as loot, or would I be going for weeks without a pistol? I prefer quiet weapons as they don't alert everything in the neighborhood and that prevents jerks in houses from destroying loot containers so they can destroy walls so they can get to you. And since the team has made the mistake of making empty containers non-lootable, every loot container is more precious for the XP. And even more because you can't loot zombies anymore.

 

Man, WTF? Did they take scavenging skill out of the game or reduce the XP to level by 75%? Because otherwise they have just seriously ♥♥♥♥ed up the game.

[4sheetzngeegles]

Fifth choice, and I am willing to admit after a lot of reading Im def the minority. I just like to play the game. I dont really want to know all of the exact steps necessary to get this or that. I play i survive, using what i have or find. When i remember I put points toward a skill. When things unlock or RNG to me Its like a new discovery. As long as i have the opportunity to achieve, the use of a survival attribute or gear. Its fun to discover it. For me to know this is unlocked by doing this, creates a subliminal grind to hedge a bet. I like more toward here are all of the things you can do and get. here are the basic rules t survive, Now go have some fun discovering. The other way is more if i collect this amount then, or if i punch this much grass then, Thats what puts me in minority. I play the game not game the game.

 

I am only talking about me. Because it is a poll.

[Pico]

I like the gating. It helps make every game different, giving the game replayability, knowing that your experience will be different from the time before.

 

However, not every item should be requiring a schematic. You wouldn't want to have to find a hunting knife book every time you need to replace or upgrade your knife. Similarly you armour, your crossbow... unless the books became more prevalent in the loot.

 

One way around the armour issue may be that the book allows you to choose whether you craft leg/chest/head/boot/glove armour from it, rather than needing a specific book for eash of those items. The book simply grants you access to the material class (cloth / leather / hide / scrap / iron), with you free to chose the body part the crafting will apply to.

 

As it has been in A16, I end up trading tons of books eventually. If I had to retain them to replace / update my kit, then that would be good. More reason to collect and horde various items.

[The Gronk]

However, one issue I have with A16 is that some of the recipe-based perks don't just have a level gate but also other skill levels as prerequisites. The one that always grates with me is Concrete. To make a cement mixer and make concrete, you not only need to be high enough level to buy the perk, but you also need to have a high enough mining skill.

 

This is a very fair point. If you're going to gate something behind a skill then make sure the skill is relevant.

 

I can teach a child to mix concrete, it can easily be learned from a book but actually making cement from scratch? As a species we lost the ability to make concrete for centuries because nobody could figure out how to make cement again. The Romans could do it but when the empire fell the knowledge was lost, despite the best efforts of some of the finest minds and plenty of literature on the process nobody could make it work. It wasn't until somebody tried with pumice from Vesuvius (if memory serves, can't be bothered googling it) that we succeeded and from there learned how to make the raw materials artificially. Not once in all of those years did a miner turn around and say "You know what lads, hacking at this rock all day has given me an idea!".

 

tl:dr - making cement should be a chemistry skill not a mining skill.

[jdifran]

I like books and schematics because they encourage exploration and scavenging. Otherwise I'd just mine for xp and wrench stuff for parts and that would be boring.

I don't like books and schematics because sometimes the RGN ♥♥♥♥s me and I'm level 70 and still don't have a minibike or a spiked club.

I think the RNG should be tweaked to either (a) offer books and schematics at a slightly higher rate or (b) weight the results so that books and schematics you need have a slightly increased chance of being found compared to books you don't need.

 

Level gates I can take or leave. I wouldn't want them to get any more restrictive than they are, however.

[Guppycur]

Gates are stupid when the gate is a level or some abstract nonsense, but are fine when they are books and the gate is for something complicated.

 

Perks are stupid to unlock a gate like concrete but are fine for buying stats or initial skills, as long as it's during character creation and isn't only there to intentionally slow progress.

[wordwaster]

i'd prefer the only gates be the rarity of the crafting materials needed.

[The Gronk]

i'd prefer the only gates be the rarity of the crafting materials needed.

 

That would be difficult to balance when the materials are common but the knowledge required to mix those materials correctly isn't.

 

Could you make cement without being told how to do it? How about gunpowder?

[wordwaster]

That would be difficult to balance when the materials are common but the knowledge required to mix those materials correctly isn't.

 

Could you make cement without being told how to do it? How about gunpowder?

 

realism doesn't matter to me, my only concern is whether i enjoy playing. also; i'm aware that the game isn't anywhere close to being balanced around that method, but it is what i'd prefer.

[Blake_]

Dear Mr Roland. I read your post and I feel that the changes regarding level gating and books are, as always,a well thought and welcome adition as the ability to have access to every crafting station was mandatory, and item rarity should speak by itself when crafting something.

 

There is only one particular set of items that need revisiting though: armors. They must have clear differences between them (other than weather protection and a few unimportant elementary defenses ) and pros and cons to incite and lure players into the choice to pick one or another. Otherwise they would have to be gated to force players to use them in order (does it really have to be one?) and that scks. I'm talking : run faster with light armor/slower with heavy kinda thing PLUS mods.So leather armor CAN have this steel scale upgrade but iron armor won't for example. cheers to the devs and tammer Roland.

[warmer]

Maybe a nice solution to the level gating and schematic requirements would be a level lowering bonus for finding the schematic.

 

Compound Bow

 

Required Craft lvl: 4

Schematic Bonus:-1

Effective Crafting lvl req: 3

 

A Compound Bow would have a weapon crafting gate at level 4 in weapon crafting you auto unlock a compound bow, but finding the schematic makes you able to craft it at weapon crafting 3.

 

The difference in complexity between a simple bow and compound should make a lvl requirement be in place. To powerful for lvl 1.

[padybonder]

I prefer the books and schematics, at least for very "technical" recipes, like forges, compound bows, cement mixer. The current solution in A16 is to gamey for me.

 

 

But then you'd have to address the frustration coming with RNG (like the forge book). Some ideas:

- A specific book could be crafted out of specific pages. Pages would be much more common, which could give a sense of progression. And crafting the book would take a lot of time to simulate the actual studying. And the crafting could stop when you're running, using a tool or a weapon.

- There could be a primitive version each item available from start. Primitive meaning: takes more time and resources to craft something / inflicts less HP / has less durability. We have it already with the wooden bow / compound bow, we could also have a primitive forge / forge

 

 

There could also be a studying mechanism: when standing in front of a let's say a car, you could study it. You'd earn mechanical skill points as time passes by. After having earned x mechanical skill points you could buy the skill 'craft a minibike'. Having a 'Mechanical book' in your hand would accelerate the studying process.