When will the game be released II?

[Sujietsu]

Team size, promoting the game, supporting areas which are redundant, promising countless updates and improvments which get pushed back time and time again for mechanics which either don't work, don't need to work and shouldn't even have been suggested let alone implemented, not to mention the huge failure to put their Steam/Console success forward into an actual improvment for the community.

 

It's not assumptions when you've been through the entire above mentioned with any of the others old and new that are being let down again and again.

 

But sure, let me go sort my Mummy issues out whilst you go troll others for being serious. Aren't you adorable.

[Roland]

Team size, promoting the game, supporting areas which are redundant, promising countless updates and improvments which get pushed back time and time again for mechanics which either don't work, don't need to work and shouldn't even have been suggested let alone implemented, not to mention the huge failure to put their Steam/Console success forward into an actual improvment for the community.

 

It's not assumptions when you've been through the entire above mentioned with any of the others old and new that are being let down again and again.

 

But sure, let me go sort my Mummy issues out whilst you go troll others for being serious. Aren't you adorable.

 

Team size: Their team has grown and shrunk over time as needed for the tasks that needed to be done. One mistake that studios make is that they hire too big a team and bleed the funds into wages. TFP has done a good job of staying lean and protecting their funds by not just hiring 50 people.

 

Promoting the Game: Top 100 games played of all time. We have 110 streamers from over a dozen countries and several languages eager to stream A17 because they love the game and report that they get some of their best views when they play 7 Days to Die. Honestly, the game isn't even released yet and the player base is largely comprised of people who at least marginally understand the concept of early access. It would actually be counterproductive to promote the game to the masses as they would not have the patience or understanding of a work in progress. All they would be expecting would be a game that runs without issues.

 

Supporting Areas which are Redundant: Explain this with more than a title please...

 

Promising countless updates that get pushed back: There has never been a promised update date since A1.1 and you know it. This line here makes you come off as disingenuous. There have been guesses, and estimates, and delays have happened. But here is the really important thing. Despite the fact that updates A2, A3, A4, A5, A6, A7, A8, A9, A10, A11, A12, A13, A14, A15, and A16 may have been delayed from their projected timelines we still got them. The promise was never WHEN. The promise was the update itself and 16 times now they've proven that they deliver.

 

Promising countless improvements that get pushed back: Again, many of those improvements are coming to fruition. They may have been pushed back because of their list of priorities but we have gotten them. They talked about AI and pathing back in A7 and now faatal is here and tackling it for A17. Shifting and re-ordering priorities is standard practice in any project and shows that they are having regular meetings on the overall blueprint and making necessary changes as they go.

 

Mechanics that don't work: When they implement something it is usually just the first version. Many people (possibly you) think that when the devs add something to the game during an update they giving us the intended final version. But that is incorrect. They are experimenting with it still and giving it to us in rough draft form. If it sticks and works well they put it on the list to refine it at some point. Case in point: Electricity in A16. It still needs a lot of work but Prime was asked to shift to Quests for A17. That means electricity is still not finished nor refined and won't be until sometime in the future.

 

Mechanics that shouldn't be: That is purely your own opinion. I can't argue against what YOU believe to be important vs inconsequential but I can say that if you think your set of preferences represents the truth about what TFP should or should not put in then you are wrong about that. TFP will implement what they deem important in the prioritized sequence that works best. This is not bad management. It's just not doing what Sujietsu wants them to do.

 

Putting Steam/Console success forward for community improvement: You lost me on this one as well.

 

You seem to have the same problem many others who buy into Early Access have. You simply don't comprehend the idea of being part of the development process. You may understand it intellectually but deep down inside all you want is to play a game that works. You aren't interested in following the process, learning about what goes into the process, experiencing the ups and downs and experimentation and iterations of features, or in testing and reporting issues to try and help improve the game.

 

You just feel like you bought a game and expect that game to work. You are probably one of the masses that shouldn't have learned about the game until it was all done.

 

Damn promotion of the game was too good I guess....

[NBornkilla]

Ha. =P

 

Hell, I didn't want to be right, but all the signs were there. From the lack of updates in the videos, to the front page and the work load left. Makes me a little sad that the game I fell in love with from 1.1a is being managed so badly in so many areas.

 

I'll see you in November when the game is out. Maybe.

 

see you in November its sad it take a bit longer but like roland said Joel made a mistake of saying July, i bet if Joel stayed quiet this would have not happened.

[stupid]

And where is your game mate! You think you know all about developing, moron

 

Here's #4 for the list:

4) Suggesting someone's opinion is invalid because they haven't developed their own game.

[DaVegaNL]

7 days to die is an excellent game. However, the past few Alpha's have revealed that MM is terrible at making predictions regarding release dates. Hence my initial reaction to him stating A17E might be released in July of 'Oh God, he did it again'.

[HexedShadowWolf]

Team size: Their team has grown and shrunk over time as needed for the tasks that needed to be done. One mistake that studios make is that they hire too big a team and bleed the funds into wages. TFP has done a good job of staying lean and protecting their funds by not just hiring 50 people.

 

I wanna know how many people are actually working on the game. Compared to Rust which has released in early access practically at the same time but had its full release in February this year with around 5 million copies sold andaround 40 people on staff. This game shouldn't be falling to far behind since last I checked around 3 million copies of 7DTD was sold and according to TFP "...7 Days, a Greenlight game was in the top 100 best selling steam games of all-time." That seems like a lot of success for a game that in the past 5 years has been in alpha. If people had more knowledge of what is going on within TFP like how many people are currently employed to work on 7DTD then people may be more understanding and more supportive.

[HexedShadowWolf]

redundant double post

[SylenThunder]

You're comparing a Pinto to a corvette. Rust is not running a fully destructible 3D terrain. It's a flat 2D world.

[ArcticPrism]

And where is your game mate! You think you know all about developing, moron

 

I think your best avenue is to develop your own game and show the gaming industry how it's done correctly.

 

As for how the Pimps got started and how they are developing the game is no concern of mine. The end result of what they do is a game without comparison.

 

Why is this always a defense for someone criticizing something? People aren't allowed to criticize something without being able to make their own better version of it? Criticize game: "You should make your own game!" Criticize a drawing "You can't even draw yourself!"

[Roland]

Here's #4 for the list:

4) Suggesting someone's opinion is invalid because they haven't developed their own game.

 

Why is this always a defense for someone criticizing something? People aren't allowed to criticize something without being able to make their own better version of it? Criticize game: "You should make your own game!" Criticize a drawing "You can't even draw yourself!"

 

Well technically people aren’t criticizing the game in this thread. They are criticizing the business practices of the company and many of the criticisms are pretty naive— almost as if the people making them really only know how to use a video game for leisure rather than how to use a video game for business. Others do seem to understand basic principles of business but are making assumptions based on what they can see having no knowledge of the inner workings of TFP.

 

TFP didn’t set up these forums to discuss themselves. They set them up to discuss the game. We get to see behind the curtain for the game but we don’t get to see the day to day operation of the owners and employees of the company. And when I say “we” I mean you guys. I see most of it and can attest that the developers are not lazy or incompetent or sad because of forum criticism, or dishonest. They listen to community feedback but have team design meetings where they hash out the pros and cons and come to consensus on changes. They do have a project manager and they are following a blueprint that they actively monitor and edit as necessary. There is a lot of work that throwing more people at (especially now) won’t be effective.

 

So in regards to criticism of the game I agree that you don’t need experience running your own company to give good feedback. It’s probably a good idea that someone who wants to comment about the game HAS played it. But in regards to criticism about company workings so much that is voiced is just ignorant and inaccurate drivel and I think that if your experience with the business end of video games is limited to purchasing at retail then you’re just making guesses and a lot of the guesses are really stupid guesses....

[ArcticPrism]

Yeah, which makes sense. What players want isn't always what's best for the game overall. It's often what benefits them directly regardless of the effect it has on anything else. Like in an MMORPG many players are only concerned with the balance of their own class. "Rock is fine, nerf scissors" - Paper.

[HexedShadowWolf]

You're comparing a Pinto to a corvette. Rust is not running a fully destructible 3D terrain. It's a flat 2D world.

 

That's still a car compared to a car. Just because they have differences doesn't mean they are nothing alike but I appreciate you trying to use the "you can't compare X to Y therefor your argument is invalid" approach. I just want some transparency.

[Roland]

"Rock is fine, nerf scissors"

- Paper.

 

My new favorite quote. Awesome. Rep given.

[TheSurvivor]

Sure. There is no big thing I am aware of. Just lots of little things that need to be finished, tweaked or fixed.

 

That is normally the case with every game I've worked on. For big games it is usually hundreds of issues that get whittled down until someone says it is good enough, ship it.

 

Sounds like Skyrim and Fallout VR. *cough cough*

"It just works." -Todd Howard

[kmce]

In previous updates, what has been the average time between each of the steps? MM gameplay -> Spider Meme -> Stream Blitz -> Release Candidate -> A17-E

or is there no normal timing to it, and its just random?

[Aurelius]

@faatal

 

I assume you are the one behind zombies attacking trees, as u talked about this many pages before. So, recently I asked Roland about some animals against trees and from the results they don't interact. It seems dogs are intended, but can you confirm bears are intended to not attack trees as well? or is it something you plan to change?

 

Bears should climb trees.

 

 

In previous updates, what has been the average time between each of the steps? MM gameplay -> Spider Meme -> Stream Blitz -> Release Candidate -> A17-E

or is there no normal timing to it, and its just random?

 

There's no timing to it...

 

-A

[Zadwanaa]

In previous updates, what has been the average time between each of the steps? MM gameplay -> Spider Meme -> Stream Blitz -> Release Candidate -> A17-E

or is there no normal timing to it, and its just random?

 

Naw, no real definitive time frame. When its done its done

[Hadecro]

2 months ago i checked this forum. It said A17 experimental - estimated august. Now it says ''its done when its done''

 

While i do respect dev's time invested in creating a game, saying ''its done when its done'' to your customers is top level unprofessional.

 

Hire a PR manager please.

[Prisma501]

2 months ago i checked this forum. It said A17 experimental - estimated august. Now it says ''its done when its done''

 

While i do respect dev's time invested in creating a game, saying ''its done when its done'' to your customers is top level unprofessional.

 

Hire a PR manager please.

Just read the posts of that same customers whining about release dates abd dev time taken and you ll understand why its back to "its done when its done"

 

Cheers

[beerfly]

2 months ago i checked this forum. It said A17 experimental - estimated august. Now it says ''its done when its done''

 

While i do respect dev's time invested in creating a game, saying ''its done when its done'' to your customers is top level unprofessional.

 

Hire a PR manager please.

 

New unpredictable gameplay is coming (AI & so many new things) , this brings some amount of few or more unpredictable bugs that must be fixed. No idea why you think it is unprofessional. It is , if they release it with the bugs and then the complainment department turns on. Nothing is released till it is done properly.

Imagine saying this to a surgery team about your relative. "Cmon I need her" , "Sure sir, here, this is her left hand". Things are done when they are done. Coma.

 

P.S They have a P.R. and he is doing just fine.

[merlinfire]

Just read the posts of that same customers whining about release dates abd dev time taken and you ll understand why its back to "its done when its done"

 

Cheers

 

It's strange how that's a thing in the gaming industry and not any other field of IT, even among software development houses

 

but that's because white knights only really exist in the gaming industry

[Prisma501]

It's strange how that's a thing in the gaming industry and not any other field of IT, even among software development houses

 

but that's because white knights only really exist in the gaming industry

 

I think its more like there are more underaged kids with a sickening sense of entitlement with an anonymous internet voice in gaming industry than any other field in IT. Espicially for a game thats still in alpha stage and has EA.

 

And thats why super relexed and relativating moderators have to go back to being the "bad" guy for trying to kill the toxicness on the forums because of shifting release timeframes. Yeh, i get it.

 

Cheers

[DaVegaNL]

Of course. Only customers have vices such as being impatient, being underage, and feeling entitled. Developers only have virtues.

 

It is known.

 

/s

[Zadwanaa]

It's strange how that's a thing in the gaming industry and not any other field of IT, even among software development houses

 

but that's because white knights only really exist in the gaming industry

 

Yeah! Stupid white knights and their ability to read! Ugh. Hate them! Those white knights going around and using logic to understand that things take time!

 

Why are they defending people who are working on making a game bug free when they could just join us and whine about something they cant control!

[Hadecro]

New unpredictable gameplay is coming (AI & so many new things) , this brings some amount of few or more unpredictable bugs that must be fixed. No idea why you think it is unprofessional. It is , if they release it with the bugs and then the complainment department turns on. Nothing is released till it is done properly.

Imagine saying this to a surgery team about your relative. "Cmon I need her" , "Sure sir, here, this is her left hand". Things are done when they are done. Coma.

 

P.S They have a P.R. and he is doing just fine.

 

I find reading something like ''its done when its done'' being passive agressive. But according to post above you, some customers were rude. Its all fine, i will wait patiently for A17.