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When will the game be released II?

Roland

By Roland
in General Discussion

When will the game be released II?  

279 members have voted

  1. 1. When will the game be released II?

    • Monday July 30
      23
    • Tuesday July 31
      19
    • Monday August 6
      20
    • Tuesday August 7
      9
    • Monday August 13
      36
    • Tuesday August 14
      19
    • Monday August 20
      18
    • Tuesday August 21
      15
    • Monday August 27
      16
    • Tuesday August 28
      104

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RavenGT Tracker

RavenGT

Posted
Posted
Acknowledged. But I don't think Faskar meant "no clue" when he said "and I still give wrong estimates.". A wrong estimate is a wrong estimate whether it is a few days, weeks or many months. Internally even the best programmers still give wrong estimates on sufficiently complex problems, a project manager's job is to never let those infos reach the customer.

 

But (and I know you know this, it is for other readers) in the case of TFP there is no single customer with a defined specification sheet and a time limit. And there would be no need for the project or community manager to keep the customers ignorant of internal time tables were it not for people who don't know the difference between estimate and promise or give that estimate a relevance it clearly doesn't have for the developer himself.

 

 

 

91 :smile-new:

 

LOL Project Managers are still needed to make sure segments, tasks, and sprints are completed as required. Without this, projects would run high on time and waste money. There has to be some benchmark for success, and someone to hold people accountable to it. In regards to the business or tech specs, their Kickstarter goals and goals listed on Steam serve as a notice to paying customers about what can be expected. The whole early access / kickstarter route plays around with goals and expectations treating customers as stockholders rather than customers. There's the element of return vs risk that's expected when you buy EA versus when you buy a 'finished' product ;)

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Faskar Refugee

Faskar

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LOL Where the heck do you work? If my developers told me that their work 'would be done when it's done', both me and my project manager would sit them down for a serious chat. That kind of stuff doesn't fly in the competitive business world. I'd argue that the gaming industry is a bit more forgiving especially for small studios, but deadlines and goals are a good thing, and saying you have no clue when your work will be done is indicative of management issues.

 

The above is my experience in the civilian and military world. Try telling some full bird that you have no idea when you'll accomplish X and prepare your ♥♥♥♥ for a boot.

 

Note that the above statement isn't in any way a reflection on my thoughts in regards to TFP/7DTD. It's a general principle and each specific case warrants its own analysis.

 

That philosophy has been installed in my own startup, which I'm the co-founder+CTO combo :)

There are limits, of course, but mostly everyone is free to work as "it's done when it's done". And normally they finish earlier and better than if they had deadlines, because I also work like that.

 

Deadlines are active only in very critical fixes, as an example, when a release breaks the production servers / game breaking bugs overall - the deadline is then ASAP, which is common sense.

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spacepiggio Ranger

spacepiggio

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They are no more than a few people that actually raged about that. 80% of us really appreciate their effords and accept the fate that we all have to wait. Pimps proved themselves every alpha, so this one is not different. Time is irrelevant.

 

You remember that Release a lot differently than I do, It was the Mishap that led to No More Release Dates being Instated in the first place.

 

If they could have Burnt the Forum's Down they probably would have tried to back then, they went Nuts leading to the implementation of,

 

No More Release Dates, or so we thought...

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meganoth Guppycurian Forum Whore

meganoth

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LOL Project Managers are still needed to make sure segments, tasks, and sprints are completed as required. Without this, projects would run high on time and waste money. There has to be some benchmark for success, and someone to hold people accountable to it. In regards to the business or tech specs, their Kickstarter goals and goals listed on Steam serve as a notice to paying customers about what can be expected. The whole early access / kickstarter route plays around with goals and expectations treating customers as stockholders rather than customers. There's the element of return vs risk that's expected when you buy EA versus when you buy a 'finished' product ;)

 

Sure, it wasn't my intention to list the complete job description of a project manager, just the part of intermediate between team and either the higher management or the customer itself.

 

If we talk about games, there is no benchmark that really works, at least if you want to produce a quality game. If all one needs is to tick of kickstarter goals and disregard quality, then any game is finished in a few months. Look at the multiplayer part of No Man's Sky to see how rudimentary a feature can be implemented to fullfill a goal.

 

Compare a bad game to a really good game in the same genre and you might see exactly the same technical features included.

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Roland RnGesus

Roland

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You remember that Release a lot differently than I do, It was the Mishap that led to No More Release Dates being Instated in the first place.

 

If they could have Burnt the Forum's Down they probably would have tried to back then, they went Nuts leading to the implementation of,

 

No More Release Dates, or so we thought...

 

The temptation to give a release date is huge because it's good news to share. Joel was playing the game and liking what he saw and got excited and said his hope was that we could play it in July. He even said it was just a guess. But you're absolutely right. He shouldn't have said anything. I shouldn't have posted it.

 

In the future I don't care what the developers say. If their anticipation overcomes their reason and they put a date out there I'm still going to post it as It's done when it's done. NEXT time I will have learned my lesson. :p

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Jedo Colony Founder

Jedo

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NEXT time I will have learned my lesson. :p

 

That may well be but NEXT time I will have learned my lesson.

 

By the way....NEXT time I will have learned my lesson. I felt it important that you know.

 

Y'all, Roland said "NEXT time" three times. A17-E releases in three weeks!

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Mimic Refugee

Mimic

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I had to move over 150 posts out of this thread all because some people couldn't understand the difference between "Maybe" and "Definitely".

 

Asking "What happened to July" doesn't mean they don't understand the difference between "maybe" and "definitely."

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Roland RnGesus

Roland

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Asking "What happened to July" doesn't mean they don't understand the difference between "maybe" and "definitely."

 

True. I'm happy to answer "What happened to July?"

 

It ran out after its thirty-first day and turned into August much like it normally does on an annual basis.

 

 

Now...if "What happened to July?" was just short for "I thought the update was supposed to be out in July but I'm not playing it so what happened?"

 

The answer to that is: It was never supposed to be out in July. July was a guess. The guess was wrong.

 

But...if "What happened to July?" was just short for "We were promised the game in July so what happened?"

 

Then that is someone who doesn't understand the difference between "maybe" and "definitely".

 

I didn't want to risk it so I just moved all posts regarding release dates to the thread about release dates where such open-ended questions could be hashed out and answered without getting 150 weeds in this thread.

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Guest MSgtPorkins

Guest MSgtPorkins

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I think too many people have become indoctrinated by cell phones, tablets and social media into expecting instant gratification. I will wait for as long as it takes and do what I need to do to help the dev team achieve their goals. As both a streamer and content creator of 7D2D, I am a patient man when it comes to this game because there really isn't anything that can stand up to it. It happens when it happens and I shall be there for it when it does. Have faith.

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