Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Aldranon]

I was talking about mod attachments for weapons and TFP adding a toggle for each and every mod attachment in their own ingame options menu. Not mods as in game mods. With workshop I expect there to be a menu someday with pages and pages of game mods.

 

Oh. Well I don't know enough about A17 mechanics to have a valid opinion. But I do look forward to 7D2D having workshop, as it multiplies the fun of games many times.

[Roland]

I dunno, maybe I'm reading more into it than is actually there. Text sucks for conveying tone.

 

With me its always lighthearted and friendly ribbing.

 

The copy machine technician joke was actually me poking fun at my own previous analogies. And well..."specializing in everything" struck me as hilarious. Couldn't help but point that out....

 

.....but I was always laughing with the guy and not at him.

[trielkee]

Oh. Well I don't know enough about A17 mechanics to have a valid opinion. But I do look forward to 7D2D having workshop, as it multiplies the fun of games many times.

 

 

Indeed, just look what steams workshop did to Left 4 Dead 2 for replayability, and how easy it is to make the changes.

[KingSlayerGM]

So a long menu for some things is ridiculous, for some others is acceptable?

[Aldranon]

So a long menu for some things is ridiculous, for some others is acceptable?

 

You could have a Game Mod that changes your Item Mods any way you want.

 

If you want to do it dynamically while playing the game is where there could be a problem.

 

The Difference is one is using Steams programmers and the other would all be on the backs of TFP programmers.

[toores]

wut?

 

When did I do that?

 

Rorland giving snarky replies... who could ever imagine that happening?

Although you say:

With me its always lighthearted and friendly ribbing.

...I'm also getting the same vibe as Tearstone.

 

 

 

Lol....I can imagine that right now there is a physics major, a mechanic, and a retailer who are all upset about your audacity at being so blasé about how choosing gameplay over realism is okay for those examples you gave.

 

Of course there are all the physics majors, mechanics, and retailers who aren’t here to read this because they uninstalled the game long ago out of frustration that the game failed them in terms of immersion.

 

 

 

Some snarky freandly ribbing for you:

I thought adding grind just for gind's sake is one step before adding microtransactions for buying yourself out of the grind!

[KingSlayerGM]

The Difference is one is using Steams programmers and the other would all be on the backs of TFP programmers.

 

So whether or not a feature is ridiculous depends on whose back it is on?

[Aldranon]

So whether or not a feature is ridiculous depends on whose back it is?

 

Well, yes. Just like when TFP canceled Airships (even though it would have been so amazing...) because they already knew what they can do before they need to start working on a new game to keep people employed.

 

With a small start-up company, many things are "ridiculous" to consider if they want to stay afloat financially.

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

I just see it as growing pains. Some people bought this game while it was still mostly an empty framework and just assumed the game would be Gary’s Mod of the Zombie Apocalypse. Now that the framework is being flesh out into a designed game with rules and restrictions it hurts their sandbox elbow.

 

Others bought the game when experience points were first added and just assumed this wasn’t going to be WoW of the Zombie Apocalypse. Now that restrictions on min/maxing are being implemented it hurst their grindfest groin.

 

7 Days to Die is evolving into the designed ruleset of an open world tower defense survival horror role playing zombie apocalypse game the devs always wanted it to be.

 

I think you're right there.

 

Using myself as an example, I first heard about it from one of my daughter's friends when he recommended it. I picked up a copy when it was on sale and so did my wife and a friend of ours (and her son), and we've been playing three or four player games since then.

 

But that was A15.

 

Like many (probably the majority) of players, I never saw the earlier versions. I wasn't around when the devs were announcing the game or running the Kickstarter, so their intents for the finished game weren't known to me. As far as I knew A15 was (other than bugfixes) the finished game as it was intended. And I bought and played the game based on liking what I saw in A15

 

So for people like me, whatever changes the devs make to the game aren't seen as bringing it closer to the intended game. They're seen as taking it further away from the game I bought. That's not to say they're necessarily bad - I've liked all the changes from A15 to A16, for example - but that's the problem (and it's my problem, not the dev's problem) with early access games. People who come in during early access see the game as it is, rather than seeing the big picture.

 

You don’t sound like the average gamer. You sound like someone with quite a bit more gun knowledge than the average gamer. My immersion won’t be affected by whatever they decide because I don’t have enough knowledge to be critical.

 

For many of us who live outside America and are therefore less exposed to "gun culture", the gun details are completely irrelevant. They could just be "generic pistol" and "generic shotgun" and the like and be completely unrealistic and we'd never know the difference.

 

(Actually, that brings up an interesting point - it seems that the game, like a lot of games, includes real-world guns. Don't you run into copyright and trademark issues if you reproduce real-world gun designs and names? Do you have to pay gun manufacturers for permission to use their products? I'd hate to think that the money I spend on games was funding the arms industry and gun manufacturers...)

[The Batman]

With the new gun mods and all.. Are there any changes made to the availability of brass ? I feel like it's all one topic. Guns // ammo etc. Any changes made there?

[JaxTeller718]

So whether or not a feature is ridiculous depends on whose back it is on?

 

At the risk of inciting a riot, yes. It's their game not yours. If they decide that something is ridiculous for THEIR vision of the game who are you or I to tell them they are wrong? If it bothers you so much do what I and others do. Use the amazing tools given to us and mod it to your standard. No one will judge you or stop you. Its how I was introduced to this world and now look. My very own contribution to the world ALL thanks to the Pimps, their accessibility and their comfort in allowing people like us to use this gift we have been given to realize OUR dreams.

 

Maybe if you complete an overhaul you can even share it with others, that way you can experience the joys of having players tell YOU what you are doing wrong for your own vision. Trust me it's a treat and I highly recommend it

 

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He's good for Ravenhearst, too. Good Jax.

 

Every Batman needs his Joker and my Caesar Romero is TIGHT!

[archergod]

Question: When we talk about Modding through XML. In A16 mod developer overwrite some default XML with their modification. Will that be what we do in A17? I mean I see one of biggest issue with having more than one mod in game is because Mod developer overwrite default XMLs where as to me better approach is if they make a copy of their version of XML in their Mod folder, and when that mod is chosen it get picked the XML from Mod folder if not then use default. Somewhat what a Wordpress or other site themes do. This way We can run more than one mod without having to reinstall or make copy of game using Mod Launcher like tool.

[davins]

Question: When we talk about Modding through XML. In A16 mod developer overwrite some default XML with their modification. Will that be what we do in A17? I mean I see one of biggest issue with having more than one mod in game is because Mod developer overwrite default XMLs where as to me better approach is if they make a copy of their version of XML in their Mod folder, and when that mod is chosen it get picked the XML from Mod folder if not then use default. Somewhat what a Wordpress or other site themes do. This way We can run more than one mod without having to reinstall or make copy of game using Mod Launcher like tool.

 

That is what the mod launcher does

[WandererLV]

ROLAND : You don’t sound like the average gamer. You sound like someone with quite a bit more gun knowledge than the average gamer. My immersion won’t be affected by whatever they decide because I don’t have enough knowledge to be critical.

 

 

A Nice Cup Of Tea : For many of us who live outside America and are therefore less exposed to "gun culture", the gun details are completely irrelevant. They could just be "generic pistol" and "generic shotgun" and the like and be completely unrealistic and we'd never know the difference.

 

(Actually, that brings up an interesting point - it seems that the game, like a lot of games, includes real-world guns. Don't you run into copyright and trademark issues if you reproduce real-world gun designs and names? Do you have to pay gun manufacturers for permission to use their products? I'd hate to think that the money I spend on games was funding the arms industry and gun manufacturers...)

 

As a person, who lives in a country with strict gun laws - I am certainly fascinated by them although I might not own them ever on my own.

 

I want a large selection of weapons and ammo types in games. I like variety. Maybe not the COD type with a plethora of weapons with the same killing potential, but sounding different.

 

Pistols :

 

Low damage, great recoil and fire rate with easily found ammunition (22.lr's)

 

Medium damage with mediocre recoil or fire rate (9mm or 45.ACP)

 

High damage with heavy recoil and fire rate (357. , 50 AE)

 

With the introduction of mods You can change upgrade the pistols (Increased damage for the light damage pistols)

 

Since this is an 'Murican game - when are we getting LEVER ACTION RIFLES!?!

[KingSlayerGM]

Dear @Aldranon,

 

I believe that the "ridiculous" mentioned by Roland, that I was responding to, is in regard to user experience complexity, not in regard to implementation difficulty. Have a look:

 

because anything more complicated than that would be ridiculous for an options menu. Eventually there will be dozens and dozens of mods and I certainly hope you aren't suggesting that TFP create option pages (yes pages) where players can toggle each individual mod attachment to either permanent or removable.

 

So I also believe this point of yours, quoted here, is not related to this matter.

 

With a small start-up company, many things are "ridiculous" to consider if they want to stay afloat financially

 

---

 

At the risk of inciting a riot, yes. It's their game not yours. If they decide that something is ridiculous for THEIR vision of the game who are you or I to tell them they are wrong?

 

1. I was not talking to TFP.
   
2. I was talking to Roland.
   
3. I just asked why, I did not say he is wrong.
   

 

You are arguing on something that did not happen.

[mikey91]

Is there a chance we could get the xml files in advance ?? for the modders we can see what changed and already make some mods in advance. om later stadium we just need to coppy past it and tune it to be perfect ?

[archergod]

That is what the mod launcher does

 

And I don't want it, as it take lot of disk space, where are only few MB maybe 100 mb of Mod file can run from same 1/2GB install rather than making 2 GB folder for each mod and changing few registry settings for it.

[Kamikaze]

I am trying read every post in this topic but probably i missed one thing. I don't mind if weapon mods are not removable but are mods able replace / overwrite old mods? For example can i replace old x4 scope with new x8 scope?

[Viktoriusiii]

Simple:

decrease spawnrate

make mods stackable (better scope, bigger or brighter laser, bigger magazine)

make vendors buy them at high prices, make them quest objectives, make them quality dependant, make them breakable (not or only partially repairable)

 

those are ideas that have come to my mind WHILE WRITING this... and all of those have absolutly no conflict with lore, realism or immersion.

They even add to it AND give you infinite value for every following attachment.

 

How is noone responding to this?

 

 

AND what are all these arguments of "realism"?

 

Carrying 500 Lumber isn't realistic. BUT CARRYING LUMBER IN SMALL QUANTITIES IS.

Falling on a haybale and getting no fall damage isn't realistic. BUT FALLING INTO A MASSIVE HAYBALE BREAKS YOUR FALL.

Crafting recepies are unrealistic... BUT THINGS ARE PRODUCED BY COMBINING MULTIPLE INGRIDIENTS.

Screwing a car with a wrench to get stuff is unrealistic. BUT COMPLETLY DISMANTLING THE CAR AND GETTING PARTS THAT AREN'T BROKEN ISN'T.

 

Not beeing able to remove weaponmods is unrealistic (illogical).. BUT... but what? There is no "sometimes you glue them on the weapon for extra stability" at least not to my knowledge.

And I'm strictly anti gun in reallife (from germany where guns are restricted heavily thankfully)... I only know what I've seen in documentaries or have seen in more or less accurate games. So I'm not special... pretty much everyone knows that attachments aren't permanent.

 

 

and @Roland:

if they wanted (I dont think it should be a toggleable option but be realistic for everyone) they could make

"removeable mods"

"unremovable mods"

"realistic" (everything but permanent things like sawing off a shotgun)

[archergod]

I am trying read every post in this topic but probably i missed one thing. I don't mind if weapon mods are not removable but are mods able replace / overwrite old mods? For example can i replace old x4 scope with new x8 scope?

 

That is the whole point of detachable mods, if you cannot detach you cannot attach new. And if developer choose not to make it detachable is because they want you to find new Gun to use 8x Scope.

[Aldranon]

I am trying read every post in this topic but probably i missed one thing. I don't mind if weapon mods are not removable but are mods able replace / overwrite old mods? For example can i replace old x4 scope with new x8 scope?

 

Roland said you can change one line for each Item Mod you want replaceable.

[NukemDed]

obsessing over gun sats is a bit odd

as is comparing pc specs

and holden vs ford (most likely australaisan bathurst thing)

and how long your dong is

its all the same as far as i can see

not quite sure where i am going with this but surely it is not the wand but the wizard that waves it

if a gun/club/chainsaw(all hail the mighty Ash) is in your hands then use it. now. and make it count.

who really cares if it has plus 2 to some_stat as long as you can aim straight and apply it in a gruesome and satisfying manner.

unless that plus 2 is to interior decorating like tfp has hinted at.

red all over!!

yes i am a bit jaded

[dhlmaster]

Question: Will there be items that are only for Server or only for SP. Like Points/skill, you can do most or all stuff, just don't get efficient with specialization, but in SP people want to specialize everything so they can really enjoy all benefits. Going in that concept, can XML has item attributes so that Mod author can make a feature available for SP only or Server only. they can do it by having two version. But I am sure mod author love to maintain single XML for it.

 

I think you would have to do it as 2 separate mods, because in a17, single player and multiplayer are the same thing. Single Player just means you're the only one logged into the game at that moment.

 

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There's the real difficulty setting right there!

 

Keep the 200 levels as is, but have a difficulty level option at game start.

 

Easy mode is +2 skills per level,

Hard is -2,

Insane is you gain 1 skill point per level, dead is dead.

 

You're welcome.

 

As someone who dislikes bullet sponges as an easy solution to difficulty, I approve this message. Another possibility could be adjusting the XP curve so it takes longer to level up on higher difficulty settings. Or you could have increased game stage based on difficulty settings.

[Aldranon]

I think you would have to do it as 2 separate mods, because in a17, single player and multiplayer are the same thing. Single Player just means you're the only one logged into the game at that moment.

 

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As someone who dislikes bullet sponges as an easy solution to difficulty, I approve this message. Another possibility could be adjusting the XP curve so it takes longer to level up on higher difficulty settings. Or you could have increased game stage based on difficulty settings.

 

If you need more exp per level a person could just min/max exp and the game would end up not being much harder.

 

An average person is not going to become the clone of Bruce Lee, Macgyver and Chuck Norris in three months like your average 7D2D character. So, not being as super powered, is the only fun way I can think of to make the game harder.

[crazywildfire]

Is there a chance we could get the xml files in advance ?? for the modders we can see what changed and already make some mods in advance. om later stadium we just need to coppy past it and tune it to be perfect ?

 

No not really. If they are still working on things then it will change before it is released. Then all that time you spent will need to start over. When they are finished they will release it at least to a handful a few days earlier to streamers. So at the most you would get it maybe if lucky 5 days in advance. So by that time why even bother and just wait until they release it to the public.