Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Gnomaana]

I think you're right there.

 

Using myself as an example, I first heard about it from one of my daughter's friends when he recommended it. I picked up a copy when it was on sale and so did my wife and a friend of ours (and her son), and we've been playing three or four player games since then.

 

But that was A15.

 

Like many (probably the majority) of players, I never saw the earlier versions. I wasn't around when the devs were announcing the game or running the Kickstarter, so their intents for the finished game weren't known to me. As far as I knew A15 was (other than bugfixes) the finished game as it was intended. And I bought and played the game based on liking what I saw in A15

 

So for people like me, whatever changes the devs make to the game aren't seen as bringing it closer to the intended game. They're seen as taking it further away from the game I bought. That's not to say they're necessarily bad - I've liked all the changes from A15 to A16, for example - but that's the problem (and it's my problem, not the dev's problem) with early access games. People who come in during early access see the game as it is, rather than seeing the big picture.

 

 

 

For many of us who live outside America and are therefore less exposed to "gun culture", the gun details are completely irrelevant. They could just be "generic pistol" and "generic shotgun" and the like and be completely unrealistic and we'd never know the difference.

 

(Actually, that brings up an interesting point - it seems that the game, like a lot of games, includes real-world guns. Don't you run into copyright and trademark issues if you reproduce real-world gun designs and names? Do you have to pay gun manufacturers for permission to use their products? I'd hate to think that the money I spend on games was funding the arms industry and gun manufacturers...)

 

This is entirely too well thought out and polite. You are going to have to learn the rules of the Forum if you want to be taken seriously here.

[zWolfer]

If your strength is at its lowest possible, yes.

If your strength is at max then its apparently 45 slots and I would guess a scary melee fighter.

 

I think they will have to change it after at least to make it one less bar.. New players, new games and you already have a "small" inventory.. It is not that small i know, but once almost all item in 7DTD you will need it to craft something bigger or just to save for later use. I mean, in start we have not a home yet, no mini bike or vehicles, so.. Players will have to loot 1 house or not even a full house before get back to a storage point.

 

Just my opinion.. And i hope you understand it, my english is not that good.. rs

[Tin]

while i fully understand that people want to be able to specialize everything when it comes to playing this game in solo.. since without the ability to do everything..well... you can't do everything.

 

however, I am sure that TFP would much rather see this game in a multiplayer enviroment where there are more than just one survivor left in the world (there has to be more than one, who would fly the supply plane (in fact.. who DOES fly that plane.. there should be some end-game where you can get back to true civilization...) -ahem sorry to digress- that being said, with MANY survivors everyone would be more compelled to work together to trade products to each other...

 

you see, unless of course you are from Golgafrincham, civilization still needs hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, public relations executives, management consultants...

 

 

About 'Specialize' in everything in a SP game:

Maybe, these skills are nothing more than "Accenting" the player in areas they want to RP but it doesn't stop the player from being able to play the game and still be satisfied with the outcome, even if they don't place points into any skills?!

 

So you start the game and become a "Master Builder" but can still do everything good enough to function in the game in the rest of the areas.

Then you start a fresh game and switch things up by being a "Firearm Specialist" so you can kill zeds more efficiently but you're still good enough in the rest of the areas to build your awesome fort but maybe not as fast or efficiently but you can still do it.

..and so on.

If so! Seems like a lot of replay value instead of being 'godly' in everything making the replay value go down.

Why replay in that sense, since you know the outcome is you being great at everything again.

[Gnomaana]

How is noone responding to this?

 

 

AND what are all these arguments of "realism"?

 

Carrying 500 Lumber isn't realistic. BUT CARRYING LUMBER IN SMALL QUANTITIES IS.

Falling on a haybale and getting no fall damage isn't realistic. BUT FALLING INTO A MASSIVE HAYBALE BREAKS YOUR FALL.

Crafting recepies are unrealistic... BUT THINGS ARE PRODUCED BY COMBINING MULTIPLE INGRIDIENTS.

Screwing a car with a wrench to get stuff is unrealistic. BUT COMPLETLY DISMANTLING THE CAR AND GETTING PARTS THAT AREN'T BROKEN ISN'T.

 

Not beeing able to remove weaponmods is unrealistic (illogical).. BUT... but what? There is no "sometimes you glue them on the weapon for extra stability" at least not to my knowledge.

And I'm strictly anti gun in reallife (from germany where guns are restricted heavily thankfully)... I only know what I've seen in documentaries or have seen in more or less accurate games. So I'm not special... pretty much everyone knows that attachments aren't permanent.

 

 

and @Roland:

if they wanted (I dont think it should be a toggleable option but be realistic for everyone) they could make

"removeable mods"

"unremovable mods"

"realistic" (everything but permanent things like sawing off a shotgun)

 

Did you read Roland's posts that this is an ongoing discussion among the devs? Vanilla A17 is not going to have removable attachments. But that isn't set in stone for A18 or beyond. Plus, it is easily moddable in the XML's on a per attachment basis.

[Xeen]

This is entirely too well thought out and polite. You are going to have to learn the rules of the Forum if you want to be taken seriously here.

 

Die in a fire!

 

Is that rude enough for you?

 

<3

[Gnomaana]

I think they will have to change it after at least to make it one less bar.. New players, new games and you already have a "small" inventory.. It is not that small i know, but once almost all item in 7DTD you will need it to craft something bigger or just to save for later use. I mean, in start we have not a home yet, no mini bike or vehicles, so.. Players will have to loot 1 house or not even a full house before get back to a storage point.

 

Just my opinion.. And i hope you understand it, my english is not that good.. rs

 

I think it is "One extra row of slots with the bottom two rows greyed out at the start." So one less usable row than you start with in A16 but you will be able to work your way into having one MORE row than you had in A16. At least that is the way I read it.

[crazywildfire]

while i fully understand that people want to be able to specialize everything when it comes to playing this game in solo.. since without the ability to do everything..well... you can't do everything.

 

however, I am sure that TFP would much rather see this game in a multiplayer enviroment where there are more than just one survivor left in the world (there has to be more than one, who would fly the supply plane (in fact.. who DOES fly that plane.. there should be some end-game where you can get back to true civilization...) -ahem sorry to digress- that being said, with MANY survivors everyone would be more compelled to work together to trade products to each other...

 

you see, unless of course you are from Golgafrincham, civilization still needs hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, public relations executives, management consultants...

 

Unless they have had a change in heart/mind they have said themselves that this is a SP first and multiplayer 2nd. So I don't think they will do anything to the game that will ruin SP experience. This is just based on what they have said in the past. The version they have is to have a SP game that you can do SP or with a small group. That doesn't mean they forget all about those that play in big multiplayer games but the main game is designed around SP/small group.

[The Gronk]

I think if everyone starts using “attachment” for weapon mods and “mods” for game mods it would clear up some of these posts. Because some are talking about weapon attachments and being responded to as if they are taking about game mods.

 

I can see a weapon attachement mod to attach and detach attachements from modded weapons being a popular weapon mod.

 

Damn, I love the confusion of this conversation :-)

 

Some should be permanent such as sawing a barrel from a shotgun but some should be removable like your favourite telescopic sights.

[crazywildfire]

I think they will have to change it after at least to make it one less bar.. New players, new games and you already have a "small" inventory.. It is not that small i know, but once almost all item in 7DTD you will need it to craft something bigger or just to save for later use. I mean, in start we have not a home yet, no mini bike or vehicles, so.. Players will have to loot 1 house or not even a full house before get back to a storage point.

 

Just my opinion.. And i hope you understand it, my english is not that good.. rs

 

To be honest not sure what the slot count is on vanilla. Not on my computer so can't count them. But if it is 2 less slots then what it is now then I would think the last two slots will not be activate. Yes that would mean you have two less then now to go do what you need. If you fill up your inventory from one house in A16 then I don't think losing 2 slots will make that big of difference. You can spend points in strength and gain a few more slots (not sure how many the first time spending on it will give) but I'm sure it is more then those two that was missing from before. So really you start out what very little rougher shape but you come out better in the long run. You come out even way better if you fully upgrade this skill and get 45 slots.

[KingSlayerGM]

Yes.

 

That would be incoherent, would you not agree?

[zWolfer]

To be honest not sure what the slot count is on vanilla. Not on my computer so can't count them. But if it is 2 less slots then what it is now then I would think the last two slots will not be activate. Yes that would mean you have two less then now to go do what you need. If you fill up your inventory from one house in A16 then I don't think losing 2 slots will make that big of difference. You can spend points in strength and gain a few more slots (not sure how many the first time spending on it will give) but I'm sure it is more then those two that was missing from before. So really you start out what very little rougher shape but you come out better in the long run. You come out even way better if you fully upgrade this skill and get 45 slots.

 

Yeah, but the problem is: You need to loot everything earlier in 7DTD because you will have to spend a lot of time gathering resources too.. Later game when you are stronger and you dont need so many things you will also have vehicles and skills too.. So looting later game is already fast. Ealier game you'll need to loot, build, gather resources, kill zombies with clubs or bows, look for food and animals, feathers etc..

So making it 2 less bars in the start for solo players, will be really bad.

[wolfbain5]

Night vision is supposed to be grainy. I think the A16 ones are already better than their real life equivalent.

 

could barely see through some. and the lighting is terribad. would prefer the blue filter, perhaps someone could mod that. will have to look it up

[crazywildfire]

Yeah, but the problem is: You need to loot everything earlier in 7DTD because you will have to spend a lot of time gathering resources too.. Later game when you are stronger and you dont need so many things you will also have vehicles and skills too.. So looting later game is already fast. Ealier game you'll need to loot, build, gather resources, kill zombies with clubs or bows, look for food and animals, feathers etc..

So making it 2 less bars in the start for solo players, will be really bad.

 

How do you know you will not gain enough points within a day or 3 to gain more slots? Don't get what I'm saying wrong I completely understand what you are saying. I'm just saying we don't know yet the full details of this. If you can spend perks or at least one perk pretty quickly then 2 slots less then it is now isn't going to make a big impact.

[Qyzer]

Qyzer: That has a gripping plot to it! Like a Groundhog Day or an Edge of Tomorrow except you forget.

 

Was your last "incarnation" just seconds from curing the zombie virus? Or were you an unspeakably evil bandit overlord? Or were you both at one time? Are YOU The Duke of Navezgane??

 

Would make a great TV series, each season is the highs and lows of one special persons journey through eternity until their death.

 

Thanks,

 

I love to look at game mechanics and figure out how the world would work if those mechanics were the physics (and meta-physics) of the world (which they are, but some story helps me). I really love 'You were the Duke of Navezgane" you mentioned, that would be great.

 

I would love something between 'Dead is Dead" and "Go pick up your backpack" for a death penalty.

[zWolfer]

How do you know you will not gain enough points within a day or 3 to gain more slots? Don't get what I'm saying wrong I completely understand what you are saying. I'm just saying we don't know yet the full details of this. If you can spend perks or at least one perk pretty quickly then 2 slots less then it is now isn't going to make a big impact.

 

I'm pretty sure to you increase your inventory slot will not be available until you spend some skill points in another skill to unlock this. "Must do activities in a category to improve the category and unlock perks in that category"

 

But even if you can spend it directly, you will "lost" some skills points that you could have spend in gathering/building or whatever to make earlier game faster. So, in one side we receive a" hand", but we lost the other one. In both way, earlier game will become even slower than it already is..

[zWolfer]

Instead of reducing inventory bars and make it as a skill perk, I think adding new backpacks with more spaces would be greater.. Just my opinion.

[Viktoriusiii]

Did you read Roland's posts that this is an ongoing discussion among the devs? Vanilla A17 is not going to have removable attachments. But that isn't set in stone for A18 or beyond. Plus, it is easily moddable in the XML's on a per attachment basis.

 

1. i play on servers so this is something that i cannot edit.

 

2. how does that in ANY way shape or form counter my argument?

 

Hey mummy! Look! I've ♥♥♥♥ my pants! Even though I havent done that for ages. Dont worry. I probably wont do that next year, so all is fine right? You just have to deal with my ♥♥♥♥ until i descide to move on... IF I move on.

But since only but a few people wanna see reason in this thread, Ill shut up and let my downvote in the steam reviews do the talking. What? Its only temporary until they fix it. So its totally deserved and nobody should criticise me for beeing petty.

 

*sigh*

 

 

 

__________

*edit*

 

Posted: 25 Jan, 2015 @ 2:55am

Updated: 23 Nov, 2017 @ 4:48pm

 

EARLY ACCESS REVIEW

Great game.

But nearly 0 support (my ticket of 2015 still hasn't been answered) and forums are more a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of oldschool players who will go to any length to defend this game.

Dont go to the forums suggesting change and you will have a GREAT time with this game, even though from a dev standpoint its a bundled mess.

 

Huh... I already did that... weird how I knew this even years back that criticism isn't handled very well.

[crazywildfire]

I'm pretty sure to you increase your inventory slot will not be available until you spend some skill points in another skill to unlock this. "Must do activities in a category to improve the category and unlock perks in that category"

 

But even if you can spend it directly, you will "lost" some skills points that you could have spend in gathering/building or whatever to make earlier game faster. So, in one side we receive a" hand", but we lost the other one. In both way, earlier game will become even slower than it already is..

 

Not sure if you think I was getting at that you wouldn't have to do something to get the perk. I'm sure it will probably be like others have been in previous alpha and you will not be able to just go right to it and spend the points. I don't think you will have to unlock this to unlock that. It will probably be you have to get to so many levels in that category whatever it might be. But some of those for the first one isn't never that high. Normally by the end of day one or two you have enough to get that specific perk you are wanting. If that makes sense I think I said it right.

 

That I think is one of the points is to make a choice. Do you pick to deal with the less slots and wait a little longer so you can spend in other areas or do you sacrifice those other perks a little longer so you can have those few extra slots. Them giving the option after all this time to get bigger inventory wasn't going to just give it without some kind of cost. Some will agree with it some are not going to.

 

I know this gets said many times but if it is that big of deal I'm sure I can be modified to fit your style. If one doesn't want to change XML files themselves I'm sure someone will still have a bigger backpack mod to download at some point.

[Qyzer]

Since this is an 'Murican game - when are we getting LEVER ACTION RIFLES!?!

 

As an American whose favorite gun is the Winchester Model 94 Lever Action Rifle, I agree. :-)

 

If one doesn't show up, I will probably have to mod it in myself. And if there isn't an already made model to grab, the wife and I are both working on learning Blender, and I'm slowly working on learning Unity, so at some point we should be able to get one in. I know there are some tutorials for putting new assets in the game in the mods section as well.

[Qyzer]

Instead of reducing inventory bars and make it as a skill perk, I think adding new backpacks with more spaces would be greater.. Just my opinion.

 

I would eventually like to see this, up to and including cosmetic options, though I'd also like to see an option to not show the backpack at all.

 

I do like that they have created a perk and tied it to carrying capacity, but I'd also like different sized packs.

[Kamuchi]

Don't dumb the game down, inventory was already a pain in the rear and as in fallout 4 the carry weight is pretty silly.

Give shoulder bags, backpacks, backpacks with pouches or what ever.

If you start to fill the backpack you use the run stamima, say shoulder bag has 10 slots so each slot is 10% of stamina drain.

1-2 slots would be like "I really wanted to pick up that item!" for a small penalty, while stuffing it full be like "I'm an hoarder, cripple me!"

 

Carry alot and suffer carry penalty ala Fallout 4, or build vehicles so you can loot more.

More natural progression in the game to advance tiers then limit inventory space which is just a stupid grind mechanic.

 

 

Dunno why I'm even replying, almost burned out just by the waiting time...

[Gnomaana]

That would be incoherent, would you not agree?

 

Not at all

[zWolfer]

Not sure if you think I was getting at that you wouldn't have to do something to get the perk. I'm sure it will probably be like others have been in previous alpha and you will not be able to just go right to it and spend the points. I don't think you will have to unlock this to unlock that. It will probably be you have to get to so many levels in that category whatever it might be. But some of those for the first one isn't never that high. Normally by the end of day one or two you have enough to get that specific perk you are wanting. If that makes sense I think I said it right.

 

That I think is one of the points is to make a choice. Do you pick to deal with the less slots and wait a little longer so you can spend in other areas or do you sacrifice those other perks a little longer so you can have those few extra slots. Them giving the option after all this time to get bigger inventory wasn't going to just give it without some kind of cost. Some will agree with it some are not going to.

 

I know this gets said many times but if it is that big of deal I'm sure I can be modified to fit your style. If one doesn't want to change XML files themselves I'm sure someone will still have a bigger backpack mod to download at some point.

 

But now you wont have enough skill points to level up everything. Maybe they forgot about solo players, maybe not. But now to you have at least the same inventory from A16 you will have to sacrifice some points twice, what means that will be many. Those points earlier will be missing a lot, once you cant stay always looting with half of your inventory to survive because this cost time.

Its not about edit xml files too.. Its a coming change, so b4 it comes to A17, they can rethink about this..

[Scyris]

Just spoke to Kinyajuu and he said that in general mods are planned to be permanent but there is back and forth talk among the team about some mods being detachable.

 

I’m guessing the discussion is along the same lines as has been had here. So we will just have to wait to see where things fall—on the side of the gameplay design they want or on the side of realism or a bit of both.

 

Edit: He also just messaged me and said that “able/ not able to be detached” is a setting for each mod that can be changed in the xmls. So there ya go. Gun enthusiasts can go super realistic very easily if it is important for immersion.

 

Very nice, that should fix alot of people complaining about the mods including me, I don't mind having to edit a xml to be able to do it, should be a simple edit since the option is there.

 

Do you have turning animal hide to leather as a base skill or is it perk locked in A17?

[KingSlayerGM]

Not at all

 

then probably you need to look for the meaning of such word