KhaineGB Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Okay... I'm not going to bother correcting you. You're obviously too emotional to be letting stupid little things like "facts" get in the way of your opinion. What I stated are facts that I actually went and researched BEFORE I made the comment. The fact of the matter is most people don't normally get to play Alpha-level games. It's only the advent of Early Access that allows us to do so. The industry standard definition of an Alpha product is one where all the systems of the game are actually in-place, and it's typically only assets that are missing, a ton of bugs to fix and optimisation to be done. There might be a few features that get dropped due to not enough time to properly implement/fix, but nothing new is typically added. Beta is then usually more polish, more bug fixing and normally when the product is opened up to a wider audience to try and catch as many bugs as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 The very definition of Alpha is that your systems should be in-place, bug fixed and REFINED. Not stripped out and replaced. And no, Pre-Alpha isn't only on paper. I have been playing a Pre-Alpha game for a few months, though the better term might be "Tech Demo" Well, doesn't really matter how Merriam Webster would call what TFP is doing. Without them still redesigning we wouldn't have gotten the new physics system with all its improvements and definitely not the new buff system. You as a modder should be the last to critizise the last change at least. Software development is a discipline where generally the rules changed in the last decade. All the agile stuff and a much more dynamic development loop make even words like alpha and beta look old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyGringo Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 That's all very encouraging, and it goes without saying everyone would love a video. One thing I'll be curious to see is how granular the perks feel in practice. That is, if each level is enough to make an appreciable difference. In other news, it's a shame every single image you post has to be hidden behind that 'may contain sensitive material' warning. They have to do this cause someone is going to be offended no matter what you do. Grab some tissues ya babies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildaxeman1 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 First look at attributes and perks: https://twitter.com/joelhuenink/status/1047301010429947904/photo/1 very cool. thanx. looks like first night i will sit quietly somewhere on rooftop and study skilltree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshiel Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Ok here's a fear of mine watching a game I had always loved lock content behind a limiting leveling system in a Survival Horde Crafting Game. Limiting skill trees makes sense in multiplayer only. I rarely play multiplayer I literally spend hours trying to come up with better forts or testing defense structures, but in 7dtd you make me choose between the skills you run the risk of cutting most the fun in half. I am hopeful the new skill system doesn't lock previously available content behind skill trees. Just don't do what Life is Feudal did it would completely ruin the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhaineGB Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Well, doesn't really matter how Merriam Webster would call what TFP is doing. Without them still redesigning we wouldn't have gotten the new physics system with all its improvements and definitely not the new buff system. You as a modder should be the last to critizise the last change at least. Software development is a discipline where generally the rules changed in the last decade. All the agile stuff and a much more dynamic development loop make even words like alpha and beta look old. A lot of that would be considered refining an already existing game system, which has been happening a LOT since I started playing in A7. Same can be said for the vehicles too (and I want to take a moment to point out how hyped I am for modding in custom vehicles!). What happened with the skills is a complete change that I don't understand, especially since MM said in one of his earlier videos (I think it was the one where he showed off the new deer/doe model) that we would be getting an RPG-style system with skills and stats. That made me think we'd get the A16 system + what has been shown now... Which would just be way better imo. Side-note: I'm not getting over emotional, though I will admit to getting possibly a little too invested into things. The bottom line is simple. I love the game. I want to see it succeed even more so than it currently has done. I've made some great friends from here and consider the nearly 1500 hours I've got in it to be very well spent. It is ok to criticize a product you love. I wish some of you guys would realise that when you come to defend it (which I also hope is out of love for the game) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doombringer101 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Ok here's a fear of mine watching a game I had always loved lock content behind a limiting leveling system in a Survival Horde Crafting Game. Limiting skill trees makes sense in multiplayer only. I rarely play multiplayer I literally spend hours trying to come up with better forts or testing defense structures, but in 7dtd you make me choose between the skills you run the risk of cutting most the fun in half. I am hopeful the new skill system doesn't lock previously available content behind skill trees. Just don't do what Life is Feudal did it would completely ruin the game. I can guarantee that you will be able to change the amount of skill/perk points you get per level if you don't want specialised characters and just want all the perks etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshiel Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 I can guarantee that you will be able to change the amount of skill/perk points you get per level if you don't want specialised characters and just want all the perks etc. i did take a look at the twitter picture maybe it won't be too bad but i can live without being the best at certain weapons but i love the many ways you can go about playing the game and tbh in a survival situation you use what ever the hell you can. as long as it doesn't remove the ability to do that i'll be happily waiting for a17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbing Zombie Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Don't know if it's already been answered but when upgrading guns, do you always need a new book when upgrading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildaxeman1 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 I think it depends on how the trees are built up. I remember someone mentioning that you can't pick all skills but it won't lock you out of things in a single player game - it just enhances your capabilities. Judging by some titles I have a little concern that I might be locked out of some stuff that I had access to in A16. here we need developer comment to be sure. as i remember from the past, Roland say, we still can craft everything. just need to find correct workstation and book/recepy. looking at advanced engineering, i see unlocking weapons. i believe, we still can craft them without enginering skill, but it is harder, because we need to find some components, instead of knowing or crafting them. anyone from devs, please let us know, how it works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 I know Bandits are not til A18, but at what point might we see the odd NPC survivor in game ? Would be nice to see a few humans around - even if they just run around and are not interactive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillls Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Hey Roland In this link https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?87756-The-Official-A17-Developer-s-Diary-for-Developers on page 62. You posted some screenshots on perks and attributes. Could you please make them a bit bigger. They're hard to read. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doombringer101 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Hey Roland In this link https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?87756-The-Official-A17-Developer-s-Diary-for-Developers on page 62. You posted some screenshots on perks and attributes. Could you please make them a bit bigger. They're hard to read. Thanks. May be a problem on your end, they look fine to me. Can always see if the Twitter link from MM's post is any clearer for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildaxeman1 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 sills https://twitter.com/joelhuenink/stat...947904/photo/1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomaana Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 The very definition of Alpha is that your systems should be in-place, bug fixed and REFINED. Not stripped out and replaced. And no, Pre-Alpha isn't only on paper. I have been playing a Pre-Alpha game for a few months, though the better term might be "Tech Demo" You are describing Beta not Alpha. If your definition of Alpha was correct what would Beta be for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomaana Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 A lot of that would be considered refining an already existing game system, which has been happening a LOT since I started playing in A7. Same can be said for the vehicles too (and I want to take a moment to point out how hyped I am for modding in custom vehicles!). What happened with the skills is a complete change that I don't understand, especially since MM said in one of his earlier videos (I think it was the one where he showed off the new deer/doe model) that we would be getting an RPG-style system with skills and stats. That made me think we'd get the A16 system + what has been shown now... Which would just be way better imo. No, the vehicle physics were ripped out and replaced the same as the skills/buffs. You just happen to like the vehicle changes so it's okay. You don't like the look of the new skills so you are grasping at straws for a reason they shouldn't have been touched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace312 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 And yes, a fair dinkum of time was spent on the design. The A16 skills are quite bland in comparison. In A17 you don't just improve a number within a perk (most perks at least?) but can actually gain one or more different abilities. Sounds very complicated! Did you do a road map for skills and buffs, so you could easier notice issues while you tune it? I'd be very interested in seeing this. Even if its after the release of A17-E. Go on Gazz, be cool ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 here we need developer comment to be sure. as i remember from the past, Roland say, we still can craft everything. just need to find correct workstation and book/recepy. looking at advanced engineering, i see unlocking weapons. i believe, we still can craft them without enginering skill, but it is harder, because we need to find some components, instead of knowing or crafting them. anyone from devs, please let us know, how it works That was then. This is now. When I made that comment I also said that I wasn’t sure if they were done and they weren’t. There are some recipes that won’t be unlocked unless you buy the perk. Doesn’t mean that you won’t be able to find or purchase those items, just that you won’t be able to craft them yourself. Also it is one of the simplest edits to make to allow more skill points. Since it’s only SP that people are concerned about it only makes sense to change it for yourself if you don’t like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cazmyr Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 First look at attributes and perks: https://twitter.com/joelhuenink/status/1047301010429947904/photo/1 Thank you MM for this screen shot! I have been looking forward to learning more about this new system, perhaps more than anything else! I think it looks fantastic and I am so glad that the direction is closer to Valmod and progression based and no longer RNG (Random Number Generator) based like it was before. Looting endlessly waiting for that Mini-bike book to show its face was not something I loved. That is just my opinion though, I know many people like RNG and more power to ya! Thanks again to TFP for all that you do! I appreciate all the hard work going into a game that I love! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Nice Cup of Tea Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Also it is one of the simplest edits to make to allow more skill points. Since it’s only SP that people are concerned about it only makes sense to change it for yourself if you don’t like it. Do you have any information for us about how skill points work now? We can see from the latest Twitter pics that all the skills now only cost one point each, and there's a hierarchy of stat -> group -> skill. When it comes to spending our points, are there dependencies (e.g. can't buy a skill higher than its group or can't buy a group higher than its stat)? What about level dependencies for buying skills? Are some of them (or some levels of them) locked behind character level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cazmyr Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 The very definition of Alpha is snip I for one am glad they are not sticking to what you are saying is the proper usage of the word. I love the changes they are making including the overhaul to the skill system. The face that we are getting all these new things in this stage in the games development is brilliant in my opinion. I, for one, (and I know this is not fair or realistic) hope they never 'finish' the game and it keeps going like this till the end of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cazmyr Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 snip all the skills now only cost one point each I noticed that also and assume that value is just a place holder, or that all buy ins are 1 point and it scales from there. I was also wondering about the dependencies, but perhaps that is a surprise. I will be in a 'safe' place at 2200 Day 1 looking at the skill trees. There may be a spread sheet created or a white board used! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SxR Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 And yes, a fair dinkum of time was spent on the design. The A16 skills are quite bland in comparison. In A17 you don't just improve a number within a perk (most perks at least?) but can actually gain one or more different abilities. I know you're definitely not Australian. ;x I love you regardless, for trying. ;d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildaxeman1 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 That was then. This is now. When I made that comment I also said that I wasn’t sure if they were done and they weren’t. There are some recipes that won’t be unlocked unless you buy the perk. Doesn’t mean that you won’t be able to find or purchase those items, just that you won’t be able to craft them yourself. Also it is one of the simplest edits to make to allow more skill points. Since it’s only SP that people are concerned about it only makes sense to change it for yourself if you don’t like it. thanx for explanation:smile-new: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 Do you have any information for us about how skill points work now? We can see from the latest Twitter pics that all the skills now only cost one point each, and there's a hierarchy of stat -> group -> skill. When it comes to spending our points, are there dependencies (e.g. can't buy a skill higher than its group or can't buy a group higher than its stat)? What about level dependencies for buying skills? Are some of them (or some levels of them) locked behind character level? I hate to say as it might still be in flux but as of right now everything costs one point. I don’t believe there are any perks that are gated behind a specific player level. You do have to purchase lower perks in a tree to get to the higher ones. The organization is just that as far as I can tell and there doesn’t seem to be any double gates of having to spend to a certain level in an attribute in order to be able to progress higher in the associated perk. I know you earn 5 skill points for doing the tutorial quest and then one skill point each level earned. I think you might get another one for finding the trader. So that is about 206 points? With about 250 perks and 10 ranks in 5 attributes we’ll be able to spend around 206 points out of the 300 ways to spend them. That’s what I know now....until things keep changing over the next week or two as Madmole continues to work on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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