Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[iejen]

There are so many reasons why one would want to avoid horde night:

• you are doing something else and you don't want to interrupt it to deal with the horde. Examples: building, mining, scavenging...
  
• you don't want to waste resources to deal with the horde. Like ammo, materials to repair...
  
• you don't want to waste time repairing what the horde would break
  
• you just moved to a new place and your base is not ready to withstand a horde
  
• you are weak, or out of medkits, or out of food, so you don't want to face the horde now
  
• you are out on an adventure far away from Home and don't have the tools with you to deal with a horde
  
• you joined a squad much higher level than you, so you let them deal with the horde
  
• you are playing pvp, so you couldn't care less about horde night
  

 

So, I think that if you are quiet, maybe underground, zombies, even during horde night, shouldn't sense you.

 

I join your elite group of minorities.

[iejen]

because the game data was littered over so many places. That "useless" overhaul and consolidation of game systems is what allows us to do things like the above in a matter of hours.

 

Most underestimated update of A17.

[SnowDog1942]

"Punishing" players for being naughty and playing the game effectively is kinda like admitting that we suck.

 

Incentivising playing the game (aka the carrot) inevitably leads to more players enjoying the game and it should not be overlooked that this is the whole dang point of a game.

 

Adjusting loot quality up/down is super easy at this point so that was simply the first thing that came to mind.

Killing those horde zombies could also lower your gamestage while leaving the loot quality the same. So if you go out looting afterwards, you'll have an easier time because you "thinned out the zombie population". How cool is that?

Right now those hordes are a complete result of what you did the rest of the week. But what you do the rest of the week could also be affected by whether or not you were killing all those zombies...

 

A lot of these approaches were simply not feasible pre-A17 (without lots of hacky workarounds) because the game data was littered over so many places. That "useless" overhaul and consolidation of game systems is what allows us to do things like the above in a matter of hours.

 

Who cares about the loot if its not needed because u can live without threats underground anyway.

 

If people dont want blood moons give em an option to turn it off, your base location shouldnt be the toggle switch for this option, it should be im the game settings menu.

[Death2gnomes]

"Punishing" players for being naughty and playing the game effectively is kinda like admitting that we suck.

 

Incentivising playing the game (aka the carrot) inevitably leads to more players enjoying the game and it should not be overlooked that this is the whole dang point of a game.

 

Adjusting loot quality up/down is super easy at this point so that was simply the first thing that came to mind.

Killing those horde zombies could also lower your gamestage while leaving the loot quality the same. So if you go out looting afterwards, you'll have an easier time because you "thinned out the zombie population". How cool is that?

Right now those hordes are a complete result of what you did the rest of the week. But what you do the rest of the week could also be affected by whether or not you were killing all those zombies...

 

A lot of these approaches were simply not feasible pre-A17 (without lots of hacky workarounds) because the game data was littered over so many places. That "useless" overhaul and consolidation of game systems is what allows us to do things like the above in a matter of hours.

 

afaik there really isnt a way to lower gamestage outside of dying. if killing during a horde night actually did lower gamestage, that would be an incentive.

[wildaxeman1]

The problem is more that a lot of people don't go underground not because they don't want to do so, they're not "ground dwellers". They don't go underground because there's no interest in doing so. No threats, nothing to be found besides resources that can also be found without digging. Yet, the world does go way deeper than the surface, so it makes sense that they'd want TFP to add *something* to it to make it both challenging and rewarding, to put it in line with the rest of the game.

 

i slightly disagree. on the surface you kick boulders until none left and specific ressources are limited. underground you gather ressources more effectively. i do not mind to get some dangers underground as long it does not make mining too costly.

but i'm sick and tired of people who are sick and tired of something, what no one makes them do. you want danger, go to game options and make it harder. do not go underground, if you so sick and tired of being safe. surviving is avoiding life threatening situations. that's why we make bases not walking around with bare hands and punching z-s.

i personally live on both levels. i have above ground base and i make deep mines. i do not complain game being too easy or too dangerous. i make my own z world and my rules to survive. it is the best part TFP did: let the people play as they want.

[JimPanja]

I also think it's a shame that the Fun Pimps are more inclined to limit their game in the way we play it, rather than leaving the possibilities more open. On the other hand, I understand the intention behind it. It would be great if you could make 7DTD by extensive settings to the game that you want. You do not like a certain game mechanic? Then turn it off! THAT would be wonderful. From "Minecraft like" to "Dark Souls Illness" everybody would get their money's worth and the discussions here would be far more constructive.

 

Well, it's just my modest opinion - but who would listen to a monkey ?!

[Dracos99]

Zombies in 7 day hordes can drop better loot. Bosses can spawn and drop more loot.

 

Better loot and Bosses in Horde Confirmed for A17

[KingSlayerGM]

If people dont want blood moons give em an option to turn it off, your base location shouldnt be the toggle switch for this option, it should be im the game settings menu.

 

-1.

 

Someone may want to fight some horde nights and skip some others. With a game setting you would restrict that.

[Burakin]

it's been said by the dev that works on it (can't remember specific name)

 

Prime iirc

 

edit: yeah Ronald specifically said something like that in the last 50 pages or so. It's just he been working on other stuff then electricity -> Quests , but they do wanna revisit it 'some time', which is after "soon" and before the question that belongs with 42 is answered.

[SnowDog1942]

-1.

 

Someone may want to fight some horde nights and skip some others. With a game setting you would restrict that.

 

Log out , change setting, log back in, or use console command.

[The Gronk]

I also think it's a shame that the Fun Pimps are more inclined to limit their game in the way we play it, rather than leaving the possibilities more open. On the other hand, I understand the intention behind it. It would be great if you could make 7DTD by extensive settings to the game that you want. You do not like a certain game mechanic? Then turn it off! THAT would be wonderful. From "Minecraft like" to "Dark Souls Illness" everybody would get their money's worth and the discussions here would be far more constructive.

 

Well, it's just my modest opinion - but who would listen to a monkey ?!

 

Underground threats are increasing your possibilities... of dying.

 

For those wishing for a safe underground you can limit these possible threats in the xml, the rest of us have been waiting for an underground threat for a long time so that subterranean living can finally be a challenge.

[Burakin]

Personally I have no clue what A16 mods even exist. Heard some names but never played or even looked at any.

I can't imagine that other devs have the time for that, either. =)

 

So I have no idea what features A17 will plagiarise. LOL

 

Thats what they all say

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Stealing ideas from one person is plagiarism, stealing ideas from many people is research.

 

You forgot the thing about footnotes

[trielkee]

.but i'm sick and tired of people who are sick and tired of something, what no one makes them do. you want danger, go to game options and make it harder. do not go underground, if you so sick and tired of being safe. surviving is avoiding life threatening situations. that's why we make bases not walking around with bare hands and punching z-s.

i personally live on both levels. i have above ground base and i make deep mines. i do not complain game being too easy or too dangerous. i make my own z world and my rules to survive. it is the best part TFP did: let the people play as they want.

 

Well see, that is the issue for me, I really want to play underground (I did on my first playthrough when I got the hang of stuff) but the problem is it gets boring fast and it leaves this whole part of the game untouched, and it is one of the biggest parts.

 

I think no amount of loot from bosses and the like will make up for it. This is a survival horror game after all, giving incentives to hunt down zombies takes the survival and horror part out of the equation. I know games should be fun, but without much survival or horror, survial horror games become dull pretty fast.

[JimPanja]

@ The Gronk

To edit xml files is not how an usual player roll. We want to check the settings and turn unliked things simply off. That's all.

[Burakin]

I stand corrected - just a few minutes of research and sure enough... there are Joshua trees in Arizona, but only in a couple very small regions, one being between Phoenix and Vegas. They only grow between elevations of 2,000 - 6,000 ft. above sea level in the high desert and the vast majority of Arizona is far below that (Phoenix hovering around 1,000). Joshua trees are more of a Nevada/California thing.

 

To your argument the Joshua trees make more sense than snow and forest biomes, I would definitely have to disagree. Arizona is home to the largest Pondarosa pine forest in the world. I watched a lot of it burn in the Rodeo/Chediski fire in 2002. Most of Arizona North and East of the Phoenix valley gets snow in the winter, a lot of southern Arizona as well. In fact, I have seen snowcap mountains within eyeshot of the outskirts of the Phoenix valley on several occasions AND snow in the desert around Florence/Coolage area.

 

I'm not against Joshua trees being added - hell, they are a type of yucca! But let's not kid ourselves at what types of vegitation/climate Arizona is mostly made up of. This is definitely an area I have to give TFP props for.

 

One thing I would suggest would be to make biomes elevation specific. Desert in the low country leading to grasslands in higher elevations before reaching forests and eventually snow biomes.

 

I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers and I have been known to be annoyingly factual at times so don't mind me.

 

It's been like that at some point, alpha 8 or 9 if i remember correctly - when we also had had the max Z level mountain tops are cut-off high altitude snow plains

[JaxTeller718]

@ The Gronk

To edit xml files is not how an usual player roll. We want to check the settings and turn unliked things simply off. That's all.

 

Well then you are limiting yourself and NOW you have decided to truly be at the mercy of what the dev wants for you. Its like someone asking for zombies to be removed because they refuse to use creative and turn them off and play peaceful.

 

Modding a few simple lines can open the doors to playing exactly how you want to without limiting development.

 

I for one would 100 percent always support adding things in instead of keeping things out. Hll ask a mod to do it for you they will gladly oblige. But if you told me that I had to choose to have underground threats in, with the ability to mod them out, or not have them at all, no sane person would pick not have them at all.

 

Why would anyone ever try to REDUCE content.

[Burakin]

 

Days of yore -> Gore

[Menace312]

I'm so stocked for A17! So looking forward to all the new content...

 

Almost wish I was a tester... Almost

[JimPanja]

Well then you are limiting yourself and NOW you have decided to truly be at the mercy of what the dev wants for you. Its like someone asking for zombies to be removed because they refuse to use creative and turn them off and play peaceful.

 

Modding a few simple lines can open the doors to playing exactly how you want to without limiting development.

 

I for one would 100 percent always support adding things in instead of keeping things out. Hll ask a mod to do it for you they will gladly oblige. But if you told me that I had to choose to have underground threats in, with the ability to mod them out, or not have them at all, no sane person would pick not have them at all.

 

Why would anyone ever try to REDUCE content.

 

I am also in favor of increasing the possibilities / content. But for me it is also part of it that I am left open whether I want to allow certain game mechanics in MY game world or not. Why should the developers insist on telling me how to play the game? An OPEN WORLD should be a big playground and not a strictly linear game.

 

And no - as an ordinary player you do not want to deal with code or ask modders if they are coding a certain thing for you. It would not hurt anyone if the options were simply inherent in the game.

[sillls]

There are other ways to avoid hoard night that don't involve digging underground or cheating.

[Armstrrong]

Yeah, like invincible Base.

[Burakin]

My take on the underground gas/vent stuff.

 

Make a block that has the same texture as the stone, inserted into the layers underground. You strike the block while mining it activates an AoE buff that depletes your characters O2.

Replace the vent system and in turn have an "air scrubber unit" that needs power (this will also have an AoE to debuff the O2 depletion buff).

The "air scrubber unit" has components, that will deplete over 'X' amount of time that you need to replace (more scrubber units = more time in between that you need to replace).

 

Or if a vent system is a must: piggy back with the electrical mechanic and have a tool similar to wire tool,"Vent pipe tool". Has the same properties as the wire.

Connect underground duct fanA to the above ground duct fanB. Fan A or Fan B needs to be connected to a generator. The "pipe" from the Vent Pipe Tool also acts as a wire to power the whole thing.

 

Laying the pipe: >.> you need to collect plastic and wire.

 

Fan A uses an AoE buff to debuff (whatever) gas.

 

*I'm just looking at it from a possible mod perspective though.

 

Edit: With the vent pipe tool being like the electrical mechanic wire laying abilities, the system only needs to check that everything is connected periodically between all points much like having relays, generator and turrets do.

 

mmm, something bout great minds....I was thinking the whole exponential calc and logical oddities could be avoided by making a system that requires a ventilator-> duct -> ventilator system. if no unbroken path in ducting exists between the two ventilators it's considered 'not working'

 

Saves many calculation since it would only need to check either "on change" or in "long internvals" wether the path was still unbroken. At first non-duct block calc can stop and 'exit-vents' orginally connected to that intake all 'inoperable'.

 

One could make it a little more complicated for realism, but this would work well enough I believe.

 

It would require a

if [empty block] is [underground] (simple) or [< then [aboveground] - X] (slightly more complex to exclude a simple cellar from the need)

check distance to [exit vent]

check [exit vent] working

if yes: normal, if no use the o2 system you have for underwater.

 

Since o2 doesnt magically transport itself outside when the fan fails or the duct is destroyed having it checked 24? 48? times per day is enough (you can go real fancy and check for a "fire" that used oxygen to increase the times checked a little more often, but by syspension of disbeleifg would work without)

 

just somem thoughts

 

It's a bit ugly but fairly efficient calc cost wise?

[Dauthiatull]

Hi,

 

What was this little update on Steam this morning?

 

nothing here but there was a new test branch uploaded to steam about 21 hours ago

[sillls]

Yeah, like invincible Base.

Nope. I said without cheating.

[Burakin]

He also stated that ziplines were in the game, and behemoths were coming soon... he also said that he was thinking about a July release

 

Succinct