Too many zombies in walls and ceilings

[meilodasreh]

I just finished the Karen Higashi residence, and man I've had it with the zombies being hidden in weird (not to say cheesy stupid) concealed places that look like solid concrete walls and alike, and then they perform a coordinated SWAT ambush on you.

 

I'm really beginning to make it a habit to sprint into a room and make a quick turn to trigger them, and then fight from a save retreat point.

Doesn't always work perfect, because they drop right on your head sometimes nevertheless (which actually seems to be the point), but there is no other chance anyway.

Being not ambushed is not an option if you don't want to carefully inspect every piece of wall and ceiling for being solid or not.

 

And in fact why would a zombie be there, it's just too cheesy, just to make one jump.

Yeah fine, why not randomly spawn some right into my face, it's no difference if you ask me.

 

So...me inspecting walls for hidden zombie compartments.

Spoiler

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx6yHc-p-E4sNzi7A2VdzYAqzg5u3HBb0a

 

I would really like if that stuff was tuned down significantly.

 

[Krougal]

We seem to have this discussion every alpha since they added sleepers. It'll never change. It is what it is.

They like the cheap jump-scare, and hell even though I know they are there, it still sometimes makes me jump.

 

[Andy Red]

It can get a bit... unnatural. You just end up going into a POI and smashing all the closet doors and vents to see where the zeds are.
I get the theory behind it... a survivor was fighting off a zombie and managed to push them into the closet. But every closet, in every room is a bit much.

I much prefer the idea of just opening a door to a room and the zombies being drawn to the noise/light from the door, instantly spawning in the room and starting to head towards you.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Andy Red (see edit history)

[meilodasreh]

I'm perfectly fine with zombies coming out of wardrobes, ventilation shafts and stuff. Cause these are kinda plausible things where one might have hidden himself to get away from creepy things going on.

But in/behind "solid" walls is...I don't know.

I mean yes, it does the job and makes me jump, but every time afterwards it feels so...disappoitingly poor designed (can't find the correct words to express my feelings here right now)

 

I mean, a zombie coming out of a concrete wall makes me think "ok what's next, a refrigerator or a sofa turns into a zombie right before my eyes or what"

 

I'm putting my hope in that "wandering sleepers" thingy they seem to be on, for some next alpha.

A21 does SWAT zombie ambushes out of "strange" things waay too often, and that Karen Higashi poi just makes the most excessive use of it. It's a very cool poi, but...ah well now I'm starting to repeat myself.

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by meilodasreh (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

@meilodasreh It feels like a cheap way trying to desperatly create a challenge?

 

To top it off the triggers are horribly forced and feel really artifical. I mean those where you walk by but they only trigger once you passed them so they can fall trough the ceiling in your back. It´s really shortsighted to do this, becaue once i know they are there i can easily pick them off one by one as i know where their trigger point is.

Edited August 14, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[The_Great_Sephiroth]

I don't mind the numbers, but my big issue is with how many areas are now "everybody knows you're here despite not making a sound" and you get, as you put it, SWATed. I don't mind a place once in a while where you get jumped, that could feasibly happen. I do not like a single POI with three or more of these, because unless you're Conan/Rambo/Arnold in Predator, it breaks your playstyle.

 

With that said, I suppose it isn't as bad now that chunks reset (if configured) so if you go into one of those rooms and demolish the entire POI, you can try again in X days!

[zztong]

9 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

And in fact why would a zombie be there, it's just too cheesy, just to make one jump.

 

I agree that it is super common for zombies to be in usual places. At this point I just accept it as quirk of the 7d2d world, or a "literary motif" if you want. (Yeh, I had to look that up.)

 

I have just come to think that in 7d2d, zombies like to hide in enclosed places and that the pre-apocalpyse humans of Navezgane liked to build secret cubbyholes. Or, that infected, but not yet transformed individuals thought it best to hide in closets, armoires, and hanging ceilings. Also, that in Navezgane, builders like to use super-heavyweight ceiling tiles that will support your weight if you stand on them, but will break if you move across them. For that matter, Navezgane citizens have a habit of building underground layers.

[AtomicUs5000]

I can tolerate gimmicks in games if it makes sense within the context.

If they returned the feature of zombies being stronger in the dark and weaker in the light as seen in the very early alphas, there would at least be a logical explanation for zombies finding their way into closets and such.

[Krougal]

Well I used to handwave it away with "someone got wounded and crawled into that spot and died and became a zed, or was hiding there and then starved to death and became a zed, etc."

 

I'm surprised no one mentions my favorite pet peeve, the zombie in a box. I mean, what are we shipping them around? They are so predictable too, if I see a wood 2x1 box I just smack the sides to be sure no one is home. Functionally I guess they are the same as the wardrobes and the "air vent doored chamber".

 

 

[ElCabong]

Oh hell yes. I just finished one where there is a lumberjack hiding in the chimney and four others hiding I had no idea where. The room was empty. but I knew it wasn't

[zztong]

Many people don't know that when the pandemic struck there was a massive county-wide hide and seek game going on in an attempt to set a Guinness Book of World Records.

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, ElCabong said:

Oh hell yes. I just finished one where there is a lumberjack hiding in the chimney and four others hiding I had no idea where. The room was empty. but I knew it wasn't

I actually like the lumberjack in the fireplace. 

 

I don't mind them in wardrobes, closets and ceilings even if those are overused.  I think that fake walls don't make sense, especially the concrete ones.  And boxes also don't make any sense.  But I can live with these things.  What I don't like are when they spawn out of nowhere when you press a button.

[theFlu]

New alpha, new leaders in annoyances..

Closet overuse? Bad. Indistinguishable concrete "traps" to release them, worse.

Awaken-all functions for sleeper volumes. Bad. Trigger-to-actually-spawn-behind-the-player, worse. Even if I just had a small scale war right below the cop that is hiding in that ceiling, he only wakes up when I step thru that doorway 10 meters away... seriously game, go home, yer drunk.

[rateds2k]

So then lets hear some ideas on how to hide them.  Maybe we can come up with some stuff. What would you do?

[The_Great_Sephiroth]

I personally like the older "hiding-in-closets/behind doors" thing and believe that using a trigger to wake them and make them burst through said door would be better. On older versions I could sneak to the door once I maxed out stealth, open the door, and smack the zed. Having them break in through doors and such or even windows (imagine a wandering horde comes by while you're inside) would actually be cool, but again, not to be over-used. Stealth builds can be fun, but having every room use a trigger would make stealth useless.

[Ramethzer0]

I'm still not a fan of the massive frequency of zombies stuffed into packages, cracks, crannies, and ductwork.   I can be okay with the first few times its happens, but then it just gets corny and overused.  Especially when you've done the POI enough to expect this.

 

While it makes for an interesting first time play through, it gets REALLY old and even kinda ridiculous.

 

It's a thing I can live with, but its never going to be something i'll enjoy.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Ramethzer0 (see edit history)

[Vaeliorin]

26 minutes ago, rateds2k said:

So then lets hear some ideas on how to hide them.  Maybe we can come up with some stuff. What would you do?

Why do they need to be hidden?

[Riamus]

3 hours ago, Vaeliorin said:

Why do they need to be hidden?

Because if all zombies in all POI were visible, stealth would be OP because they could just shoot everything from stealth and never fight an enemy.  Hidden enemies are fine.  It would just be nice to have other ways to hide them, even if it is just around a corner but where they activate and attack when you come close to the corner instead of going around it.  Sometimes you see that, but most often they ignore you until you go around the corner.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[theFlu]

14 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Because if all Sophie's in all POI were visible, stealth would be OP because they could just shoot everything from stealth and never fight an enemy. 

That assumes the current binary stealth system; which I would love to see some changes done to.

 

Let's say, 10-20% of current zeds in their perfect hiding spots. 60% sleeping in actually random spots in rooms (not on shelves, but sanely random). Rest, wake up and patrol slowly within the volume.

 

Any zed that you hurt has a chance of screaming and waking up some of the nearby zeds.

 

Take away the initial massive stealth bonus from bows and give it back later in the skills. This way you rarely get a one-shot kill unless specced for it. You risk waking others on every shot. Most things look "normal" and the perfect hiding spots become less "obvious" as most of them will be empty. The populated ones will then become risky again. You might not need to have the artificially hidden things if players aren't completely paranoid after two POIs.

[Riamus]

28 minutes ago, theFlu said:

That assumes the current binary stealth system; which I would love to see some changes done to.

 

Let's say, 10-20% of current zeds in their perfect hiding spots. 60% sleeping in actually random spots in rooms (not on shelves, but sanely random). Rest, wake up and patrol slowly within the volume.

 

Any zed that you hurt has a chance of screaming and waking up some of the nearby zeds.

 

Take away the initial massive stealth bonus from bows and give it back later in the skills. This way you rarely get a one-shot kill unless specced for it. You risk waking others on every shot. Most things look "normal" and the perfect hiding spots become less "obvious" as most of them will be empty. The populated ones will then become risky again. You might not need to have the artificially hidden things if players aren't completely paranoid after two POIs.

That would certainly be a welcome change.

[meilodasreh]

8 hours ago, theFlu said:

Let's say, 10-20% of current zeds in their perfect hiding spots. 60% sleeping in actually random spots in rooms (not on shelves, but sanely random). Rest, wake up and patrol slowly within the volume.

I would like mostly all of them wandering around in a certain area (maybe 2-3 rooms, depending on the size of the poi). Some few asleep, and ZERO walled in ones.

It would be a far better way to scare you if a zombie scuffles around the corner just when you enter a room, because it is not repetitive and foreseeable as the concealed ones.

In fact I wouldn't mind if at least some would even have the ability to open unlocked standard doors. It'd be cool if you hear a door creak somewhere...

Really hope this is where TFP will go with wandering sleepers.

[theFlu]

7 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

I would like mostly all of them wandering around in a certain area (maybe 2-3 rooms, depending on the size of the poi).

I wouldn't hate that, either; probably way more than 3 for Higashi though, no? But it might not be all that compatible with the "dungeon crawl" -design. That sorta requires there to be "some, everywhere".

 

7 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

It would be a far better way to scare you if a zombie scuffles around the corner just when you enter a room

 

Someone in TFP is going, "hey, that's an easy trigger to build" right now. Expect 50% of all rooms have a dedicated greeter in A22.

 

 

[meilodasreh]

no please not as a trigger that does "when player crosses doorstep then activate zombie cornering". That's not what I meant. Would get old/repetitive again.

Let them move around by themselves and do their thing, just as the random ones outside in the streets. Maybe they could be bound to some paths so that they can't go "out of bounds", I guess that would probably mess up questing.

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by meilodasreh (see edit history)

[Ananais]

On 8/15/2023 at 1:14 AM, Riamus said:

I actually like the lumberjack in the fireplace. 

 

I don't mind them in wardrobes, closets and ceilings even if those are overused.  I think that fake walls don't make sense, especially the concrete ones.  And boxes also don't make any sense.  But I can live with these things.  What I don't like are when they spawn out of nowhere when you press a button.

 

This pretty much covers my feelings on the matter as far as the game, but I would be lieing if I said that it had not prompted me to conider where I would hide to surprise a survivor if we ever had an outbreak and I was bitten 😁

[warmer]

I can understand the lack of realism, or "cheese" when they pop out of walls/closets. However, without this stuff, the game completely loses any sense of danger for me. Once a game becomes to predictable I cease wanting to play.

 

Everytime I barely make it out of a situation with single digit HP I think "this is why I keep playing" that rush is what I aim for. Without ambushes, I personally, wouldn't feel any POI is a challenge after 1000+ hrs of gameplay.