A21 Thoughts... not enough of a game

[pgriffith]

This will probably be unpopular... but here I go 

 

Been playing since close to when it was first released, 1800 hours logged. (much of that MP)

 

Started a new single-player world when A21 was released, on a Pregen6k map at default game settings (Adventurer)

 

My gripe is there is not enough to do in the game. I'm at day 133 in-game, and there is nothing left to do that isn't super repetitive/monotonous. Or building something for building's sake. (that's what Minecraft is for )

 

I've got level 6 weapons and tools, I have all the vehicles with all the mods and the drone, I have so many resources I've now mostly stopped collecting them. I've only ever bought a couple of things from the traders, some antibiotics early on, no tools, weapons, or ammo. I just sell all the excess stuff to them. I have 2 wall safes completely full of Dukes (however many stacks that is?) and the amount of ammo I have is frankly ridiculous, and I'm yet to buy or make a single round, I did make lots of arrows earlier on though.

 

There are so many mineral deposits around, resources are stupidly plentiful. I've only really had to specifically mine rocks for building block resources and then some oil shale to power my vehicles.

 

Water has never really been an issue, murky water jars are EVERYWHERE and they stack to 125. I have 2 dew collectors which I didn't bother with until quite a way into the game, and I now have more water than I can possibly ever use. Once you have a tricked-out auto shotgun (EASILY the best weapon in the game), doing tier 6 POI's is a cakewalk, even in the wasteland biome.  Same with hoard night, I don't have an elaborate hoard base, just a double-walled steel bar room (9x9x2) on flat ground which I stand in and shoot them in the face, worst thing that happens is a bit of cop spew now and then. My normal day-to-day resource base is on the roof of a shooting range office building 20 only metres away. I haven't even progressed past light armor, just went to military armor from cloth in the last week or so in-game time.

 

I started reasonably close to a large city (none of the big skyscrapers are in it), that I MIGHT have looted maybe a tenth of, mostly from doing quests. There are several other big cities on the map that the traders have sent me to other traders, but there is ZERO need for me to do anything elsewhere on the map, the tier 6 quests keep sending me further and further out which is the only reason I frequent them.

 

Farming is super easy, I survive on pretty much exclusively vegetable stew, as it's easy to make and it doesn't need animal fat which I've found to be one of the lesser available resources around.

 

I'm now at the point there's no reason to do any more quests, I don't need the XP, and I really don't need the resources, and regardless of the POI, once you know where the Z's are going to spawn/magically appear, there is no real challenge, you just need to make sure there is a doorway between you and them and mow them down as they bunch up. Even better is at the top of some stairs as they come up to you. I don't cheese the POI's at all, I follow the lights like a good boy.

 

I have all the skill books and only have 5 uncompleted Perk lines, and they are all 6 out of 7.

 

I feel the game just needs more to do in it, Bandits/factions, anything to give it some "life". Speaking of life, the zombie selection is pitiful and super immersion-breaking, surely there must be a way to procedurally generate random Z's? Body type, random heads/limbs, clothing, that sort of thing. Did no skinny cops or fat nurses get infected ?? Or anything other than a Doberman?

 

The city designs are great with them now having sewer and subway systems underground and much more realistic roads/under/overpasses etc. The new POI's are awesome, but there are so many I've never entered (mostly the smaller ones) as there is no reason to do so unless a quest directs me to one.

 

Also, why's the bicycle so bloody slow? It's almost easier to stay on foot if it wasn't for the extra bit of storage it gives you. Have you RIDDEN a bicycle recently?

 

I like the game, I've died 17 times, I'm no god-level gamer, but it's just not enough.

 

Have at me Bro's  :)

[RipClaw]

Even with the bandits in the game and the story in place, sooner or later you will reach the limits when there is nothing left to do. Then you'll either have to start over or play another game. 133 hours of gameplay in a single playthrough is a lot. Most games should take less than 40 hours for the main story plus all the side missions.

 

[meilodasreh]

I would suggest you try some mods like darkness falls. These are a bit more playable long term, because there are more things to achieve.

I also think vanilla lacks at least one tier of stuff (materials, equipment, weapons), which DF has added.

I guess vanilla will one day reach a similar state, but right now the devs have other priorities.

I like to play vanilla, but mostly call it a playthrough after maybe day 50.

The first experimental and/or first stable version I do not even aim for a long term play, because it it so likely that stuff is patched in a way that makes your savegame stop working.

[AtomicUs5000]

32 minutes ago, pgriffith said:

The new POI's are awesome, but there are so many I've never entered (mostly the smaller ones) as there is no reason to do so unless a quest directs me to one.

 
Yeah, I think this is something really important and probably overlooked as a side effect of the quests and the rewards you get from them. Their goal was to provide more to do and the opposite is happening instead.

[Roland]

You have to get to day 200 before the bonus content kicks in.

[pgriffith]

10 minutes ago, Roland said:

You have to get to day 200 before the bonus content kicks in.

<SIGH> ... Fires up 7D2D

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, pgriffith said:

<SIGH> ... Fires up 7D2D

 

You did see the smiley on Rolands post? You do know what that means, right?

 

And just to be safe, your comment about the bicycle doesn't mean you are still riding it on day 133, right?

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[pgriffith]

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

You did see the smiley on Rolands post? You do know what that means, right?

 

And just to be safe, your comment about the bicycle doesn't mean you are still riding it on day 133, right?

 

Yes fully aware

And no, the bicycle has long been retired, I use the Gyrocopter almost exclusively unless it's something really close I need to get to. Then I use the motorbike (which also seems too slow). The 4x4 is @%$#, too unmaneuverable and I think it's made out of ginger bread, dunno why it needed so much steel.

[ShadeColdfang]

i can tell u a good traditonal 7 Days to die Loop... Create a World, Start getting your stuff, Build a base or Hordbase, play until u have everything and get bored, Repeat at point 1, start creating a new world---
The Game is what u make of it and try to Challenge yourself. play only with Melee, shotguns, rifles, bows or whatever. u dont have to play the same old way, spice it up and bring some flavour in... and if u really get Bored. Mods are u best Friends that never get old.
i recommend u get Undead Legacy, War of the Walkers, Darkness falls <tho hard but fun once u get your grip), The Wild wild west overhaul. or go to the 7 days to die Mods site and grab mods from there or hop over to Nexus and look through hundreds of Mods <Daily new mods get posted) grab all the mods u like and mix and match to your liking (But dont forget to turn off EAC when u play with mods to avoid false bans or flags)
so whenever u feel like your lantern oil is going out... refill it with Mods to keep you engaged.
Multiplayer is also possible modded so if everyone in your Friendslist that plays 7 days has the same mods nothing can stop u all mowing down the hordes of the Undead. i hope this will help u a bit.

[Scyris]

How did you last till day 133? I'm usually pretty bored by day 8, as I pretty much have some best in slot items by then, have no issue with food and water, and just don't see a reason to keep playing as there really is nothing to do.

[ShadeColdfang]

1 minute ago, Scyris said:

How did you last till day 133? I'm usually pretty bored by day 8, as I pretty much have some best in slot items by then, have no issue with food and water, and just don't see a reason to keep playing as there really is nothing to do.

best in slot items at Day 8... sure... u know cheating those in with creative mode and killing of any progression towards those items at all makes the game less fun and engaging, cuz there is nothing to venture out for.
and even if u run all day every day in 7 days quests u maybe only have iron tools and a auger but not steel tools, even if u play in the wastelands. So u alone make the game boring for yourself

[zombiehunter]

You might try upping the difficulty level to Warrior or even Survivalist.  That won't make much of a difference in the long run but it certainly does in the early going.

 

I usually get to the point of nothing left to do and nothing more to loot at around day 70-ish, unless I want to finish all of the T5 quests.  It's at that point that I'll start a new playthrough and then the fun and excitement is back.

[AtomicUs5000]

A nomadic no main base playthrough I like to do sometimes.
Dead is Dead at your most comfortable difficulty is a good way to play for a challenge and keeps you on your toes.

Hordes nightly with maximum night time and very short days and then see how many days you can last is entertaining.
No Trader was always fun for me, but it is starting to remove a little too much content these days.

[MalgusKerensky]

I am concerned with crafting and farming in recent updates and how they do not really seem to be useful towards end game. Collect a bunch of books, dump skill points in only to have the best items you could craft typically already be replaced with purple versions. Why bother crafting armor, weapons, and tools when you probably loot better doing trader missions or just exploring? Then there is farming, where even with books/perks, it just is still not viable to really live off the land?

 

Loot vs Crafting has been an issue for quite some time and it is a bit jarring that it has not been addressed (but skills can be overhauled 2x times). Also while nitpicking, the trade quest rewards still do not seem to reflect the effort put in to clearing t5/t6 infested quests. Overall the direction of the game has shifted from survival to grinding and there is only so much folks can do that treadmill before they just give up (mad props to the modders for basically keeping the overall community alive during these long, long development periods between Alphas).

[Riamus]

Just to add my own experience... This isn't a game that needs relatable end game content like a MMO.  It is partially a sandbox game and sandbox games generally don't have any real end game content as you are just doing anything you want.  There will always be a point where some mechanics just lose value as you reach the end of the game.  Crafting isn't much use once you have everything, for example.

 

There will never be a specific level or number of days that you should play before starting a new game.  Each person decides when that time will be.  I normally end up playing anywhere from 70-120 days in most games.  Some are done before day 40 and others play over 200 days.  It all depends what people like about the game.  Some like the person of equipment and once they have the best stuff, they start over.  Others like building elaborate bases and will play longer games to have three resources needed to do that.  Others enjoy going through all the tiers for each trader and will restart after completing all tiers for all traders.  And others are completionists who will restart only after getting all books and magazines.  There are so many ways you can play and so many reasons why different people restart at different points in the game.  This is possible because of the sandbox qualities of the game.  And all are valid.  If someone restarts earlier for whatever reason, it doesn't necessarily mean there isn't content to play longer.  They just play for different reasons.

 

Considering I have put in more hours in this game than any game other than MMOs, I'd say this game has enough content to make it worth playing.  And I haven't even started using mods other than custom POI yet.  That doesn't mean more content can't be added, of course.  There are things I would like to see and things I'd like to change.  I wouldn't mind more content at all.  But to suggest there isn't enough for the game is a bit exaggerated, I think.

 

This game is also still early access.  It isn't finished.  They will be adding a story and bandits before it is finished.  I honestly am not much interested in the story as the game is meant to be played many times and a story gets old by the second time through, no matter how good it is.  And bandits just don't fit this game, imo.  But for many, those will be welcome additions.

[Scyris]

6 hours ago, ShadeColdfang said:

best in slot items at Day 8... sure... u know cheating those in with creative mode and killing of any progression towards those items at all makes the game less fun and engaging, cuz there is nothing to venture out for.
and even if u run all day every day in 7 days quests u maybe only have iron tools and a auger but not steel tools, even if u play in the wastelands. So u alone make the game boring for yourself

 

I don't cheat, its called trader quests try getting to t3-4's I usually am at them before day 7. I also play on warrior difficulty.

[theFlu]

11 minutes ago, Scyris said:

I also play on warrior difficulty.

2 or 3 hour days?

[fragtzack]

What I do to keep going:

 

 Play progression mode. Progression mode = after every horde night, you need to increase the difficulty of at least 1 aspect:

 

1. Move you main base to a harder biome

   a. Do horde nights in a hard biome

2. Drop the loot settings by 25%

3. Raise the difficulty level

4. Reduce the number of real minutes in a game day

5. Reduce the day light hours

6. Feral Sense

7. Zombie run speeds

 

As you increase in power, make the game harder. The vanilla games stage increases are not enough to account for the mass gear and loot you have.

 

 What really kills me about the OP and so many of these complaints is people playing  at 100% loot then have the nerve to complain about blasting through content. You want a real survival challenge with sadism tendency,  play 25% loot. 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by fragtzack (see edit history)

[Gideon]

Like all sandbox games, there comes a point where you have nothing left to do, except start over with mods or at least different settings. It seems to be the nature of open games. Nothing wrong with it, but it is just something you have to know will happen.

[saltychipmunk]

I agree with the op, the pacing of the game  and its current content is kind of sparse.

 

I realized this almost instantly when I started a play through in alpha 21 after playing darkness falls in alpha 20.

 

The quests that are in the game allow you to skip too much progression too quickly as they seem hell bent on giving you as rewards anything and everything you would need to progress into the next tier of quest. And since you can just focus on crushing quests for one trader you can easily get to the high tier quests , and the high tier rewards, WAY before the rest of the game keeps up.

 

forget day 130, I ran out of @%$# to do on day 50 thanks to these quests.

 

Worse still is that the level of challenge  provided by the quests , events and ambient zombies really does not in anyway keep up with how extreme a player can ramp up their own production. 

 

 

 

 

[warmer]

To echo others, the only way I know how to keep a game fresh after a 1000hrs is to make new custom maps, or include new mods.

 

To say this isn't much of a game is a syntax error on your part. If it wasn't much of a game I can guarantee you that you wouldn't have more hours invested in this playthrough than it takes to complete most AAA rpgs.

[meganoth]

16 hours ago, MalgusKerensky said:

Then there is farming, where even with books/perks, it just is still not viable to really live off the land?

 

Then there is mathematics that shows that Living of the Land 1 is perfectly viable with an average gain of 1.5 plants per farm plot.

 

Is that a really really good return? No, neither is the return of miner69er 1 or the wrenching perk at 1. Lotl1 is poor man's farming just like miner69er 1 is poor man's mining and wrenching 1 is poor man's wrenching.

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

18 hours ago, MalgusKerensky said:

Then there is farming, where even with books/perks, it just is still not viable to really live off the land?

 

The fact that you said this makes me wonder if you even farm in the game.

 

SP:  One perk in LoTL, harvest and only plant seeds you find or buy from trader, you can still use it to greatly supplement your food source in the game.

[Scyris]

On 7/18/2023 at 7:59 PM, theFlu said:

2 or 3 hour days?

 

60 min days, mostly melee too. Rarely ever use a gun before horde night unless I need to kill a doggo, or something. Using ammo on slow walking low hp zombies is just a waste of ammo for guns. I do use archery thou mostly for sneak attack 1 shots. I run a str build, Don't usually touch another stat till my str is like 7. Pummel pete, miner 69'er and motherload are the main skills I up with 1 in master chef for the craft time reduction, usually 1 in the attack speed perk too. I don't get any gun skills are they aren't really needed till ferals are everywhere. Usually by day 3-4 I have a decent baseball bat and 5+ str, and can generally 2 shot non-fat zombies with headshots with melee on warrior difficulty. T3-4 quests start giving t3-5 steel clubs and tools, I don't worry much aboyt armor padded armor works even during the feral stages in vanilla, Though I do use heavier armor once I get the book so the movement speed reduction is removed in combat. Armor slows you down way to much in 7dtd that its silly. With the crit system I much prefer to be fast and avoid hits than take them.

7 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

 

The fact that you said this makes me wonder if you even farm in the game.

 

SP:  One perk in LoTL, harvest and only plant seeds you find or buy from trader, you can still use it to greatly supplement your food source in the game.

 

Thats what I do, I get 1 in LotL and thats it, Corn seed's are everywhere, those animal feed pallete things in farms give 1-6 corn seeds each. I do wish Lotl 1 would lower the cost to make seeds so you could make 1 seed from 1 harvested crop and have at least 1 crop profit.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Scyris (see edit history)

[Abusimplea]

Grats for beating vanilla. You have unlocked mod support and should now try one of the big overhauls.

Find one that looks like it could be fun, watch a review to confirm and then play it locally or on a server.

Have fun with the bonus content.