This is the kind of point of view that makes me go facepalm about some reviewers.

[meganoth]

16 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

@meganoth

I think you got it right the first time... what they're saying is that IF you perk into shotguns, you WILL find more shotgun parts for your shotgun crafting.

That is alongside the magazine increase on top of the normal loot tables. I don't think there's any leeway to a different interpretation there.

 

Yes but I was using it to compare to A20. And compared to A20 they could for example have decreased the drop rate for unperked parts so that you got the same droprate as in A20 only after you maxed out the perk. 

 

That way you would still see an increase in droprate of shotgun parts after perking into shotguns, but compared to A20 you would find even less parts.

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

28 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Yes but I was using it to compare to A20. And compared to A20 they could for example have decreased the drop rate for unperked parts so that you got the same droprate as in A20 only after you maxed out the perk. 

 

That way you would still see an increase in droprate of shotgun parts after perking into shotguns, but compared to A20 you would find even less parts.

 

Well, if they do that, it would be kind of "dumb" and counterintuitive on their part, IMO.

I don't think they'll do that since it'd compromise all the balancing they've been talking about.

[Matt115]

5 hours ago, Ray Garraty said:

Of course it is!

For the past 5 years we haven't seen any new wired electric traps from TFP at all, which is absolutely unacceptable in terms of  the Tower Defence genre game.

I agree we don't need medieval trebuchets and ballistae, but automatic grenade turrets or flamethrowers would be nice

They tested flamethrowers but they decided to abadon this idea. Granade turrets don't suit into 7dtd. It's World war Z.  Don't watch if "something" is cool but if something have sense - razor barber wire could be just expensive and stronger barbed wire. Easy to made and it's not overpowered. Zombie number is low in 7dtd so weapons like granade turrets even if not 1 hit kill zombie would easy "rangdoll" effect - they would be better stuned that using electric traps.

 

5 hours ago, v3tro said:

 

I am not understanding why you are making your decision assuming TFP do not know what they are doing... or do you want it to be "bad" ? Not sure, can`t seem to grasp your point of view.

All your given numbers seem artificially made so you can show your point of view and in your given situations - yes, you are correct. But the problem is that you have no idea if your numbers are even remotely precise. That increased number could be 5% per perk instead of your 0.1%.. 

 

Not sure how you got 2 parts per hour. Sometimes I can get 15parts in 1hour while other times cant get 1 part in 10hours. RNG luck based, and if you go and loot specific gun containers you increase your chances of finding gun parts etc. 

 

Well because i always expect something bad will happened and i'm always correct just i don't know what will be the reason.

 

I don't remeber which alpha it was there was big problem with beaker. Not only i had this problem. They fixed this in next alpha but  for year this alpha was just unfun to me. Yes was playable but.... why to play if you can't unlock something pretty important because you can find a single part? That's why im so negative here.  Because let say - TFP would get feedback about parts and fix this in A22. But for at least halve of year it would be unfun to play. Maybe i'm too much pesemistic but if only bad things happens over and over you expect something bad...  but This doesn't mean i want to be bad

 

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

@Matt115:

I noticed just now that I have made a wrong conclusion in this argument. I was interpreting that message to mean "more shotgun parts appearing than in the previous alpha", but actually and more likely it could just mean "more shotgun parts appearing after perking into shotguns", without any reference to A20.

 

So, we don't have any direct indication whether parts can be found more often than in A20. The only argument about that is indirect now: That it would be neccessary for TFP to do it because their objective was to give more opportunities for the player to craft intermediate qualitiy steps of weapons and armors.

 

Yeah. Items in 7dtd are in "pools" - " weapon" pool, "food" pool etc. and every pool have some % to be in some types of containers. 

So even if reading magasines increase chance to get part you want still this is just % of %.  So chance to get item from "parts" pool should be increased.

 

45 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Well, if they do that, it would be kind of "dumb" and counterintuitive on their part, IMO.

I don't think they'll do that since it'd compromise all the balancing they've been talking about.

Yeah but they still don't comfirmed increased chance to get item from this pool so for now we can only wait 😕

 

[Jost Amman]

18 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Yeah but they still don't comfirmed increased chance to get item from this pool so for now we can only wait 😕

Oh, so THAT was what you both have been talking about?

No, it doesn't work like you say. Someone (maybe Roland or Schwanz?) said that the parts will have a separate chance ON TOP of the normal loot.

[Matt115]

4 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Oh, so THAT was what you both have been talking about?

No, it doesn't work like you say. Someone (maybe Roland or Schwanz?) said that the parts will have a separate chance ON TOP of the normal loot.

Honestly i don't undestand this how this could work - because this sounds like normal loot of container ( let say chest)  + chance to get specific part as additional after "generated"  normal loot. So if this working that's way how this will be implemented? But this could solve the problem.

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

Honestly i don't undestand this how this could work - because this sounds like normal loot of container ( let say chest)  + chance to get specific part as additional after "generated"  normal loot. So if this working that's way how this will be implemented? But this could solve the problem.

Yes, that's how I understand they explained it, I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I got it right.

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Yeah. Items in 7dtd are in "pools" - " weapon" pool, "food" pool etc. and every pool have some % to be in some types of containers. 

So even if reading magasines increase chance to get part you want

 

NO, reading magasines does not increase the chance. Perking increases chance.

 

And currently I don't care how exactly it is implemented, because that is even more speculative. There are dozens of ways how to make some item drop more often, we will find out when we read the xml in A21.

 

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

still this is just % of %.  So chance to get item from "parts" pool should be increased.

 

Yeah but they still don't comfirmed increased chance to get item from this pool so for now we can only wait 😕

 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[theFlu]

7 hours ago, Matt115 said:

So if this working that's way how this will be implemented?

I may have misunderstood your confusion, but it sounds like it's just going to do two separate rolls per (suitable) loot container. First a roll for the normal loot for the container, and then a separate one for extra weapon parts as per your skills. Maybe a separate one for each weapon type in case you've specced into multiple, maybe not. In any case, you would never see it happening, just that parts start appearing more when specced.

 

That said; unless someone in the know is specifically explaining the implementation details, preferably in a linkable format, I wouldn't read much into speculation about the actual mechanic yet. And even if such speculations were correct at the moment, it might still get changed before going public...

[Matt115]

36 minutes ago, theFlu said:

I may have misunderstood your confusion, but it sounds like it's just going to do two separate rolls per (suitable) loot container. First a roll for the normal loot for the container, and then a separate one for extra weapon parts as per your skills. Maybe a separate one for each weapon type in case you've specced into multiple, maybe not. In any case, you would never see it happening, just that parts start appearing more when specced.

 

That said; unless someone in the know is specifically explaining the implementation details, preferably in a linkable format, I wouldn't read much into speculation about the actual mechanic yet. And even if such speculations were correct at the moment, it might still get changed before going public...

If this would be working that way this would have sense. But there would be % of chance to get "parts" roll because not every container have guaranted parts.... i hope this will do this good

[BFT2020]

Or it could just be a simple boost on parts if you are lucky to get them on the loot table, like they handle the treasure hunting perk or the bonus harvest on plants with Living off the Land

 

            <passive_effect name="LootQuantity" operation="perc_add" level="1,2,3" value=".1,.3" tags="buriedTreasure"/>

 

Thing is, everything is simple speculation at this point.  We won't know until we get our hands on A21 and it may change even after that.

[Melange]

1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:

Thing is, everything is simple speculation at this point.  We won't know until we get our hands on A21 and it may change even after that.

That statement pretty well sums it up for everyone's fears and expectations of when A21 drops. 

 

But, we can still guess, provoke hysteria and be 100% wrong in the meantime....🥂

 

 

[Maharin]

22 hours ago, Melange said:

But, we can still guess, provoke hysteria and be 100% wrong in the meantime....🥂

 

Or you could guess correctly, promote dysentery, and be 100% right in all the wrong ways.

[Matt115]

9 hours ago, Maharin said:

 

Or you could guess correctly, promote dysentery, and be 100% right in all the wrong ways.

Or be 100% pessemistic and if something go good you will rly shocked because you expect everything bad 

[Melange]

On 8/30/2022 at 6:03 PM, Matt115 said:

Or be 100% pessemistic and if something go good you will rly shocked because you expect everything bad 

To think that everything ultimately will be bad is an easy way to look at things (and I don't say that is your style @Matt115). I was just saying that we don't know, none of us know (Well I take that back. Some folks on here may know but we should understand why they don't say much at this time). 

 

Whatever we get in vanilla A21, modders will find a way to keep giving us options. That's how the game was designed. 

 

Some players may not be bothered about changes with the new gameplay. Adapt, overcome and continue to enjoy. We have had to do that a lot. But you can be sure these forums will really light up once we can download A21 and play for a few hours. Oh my, get your wading boots ready.

 

No offense @BFT2020. Just because I don't understand wth your code entails doesn't mean I want to derail your discussion. Yep. it can all be vulnerable to change.

 

Mel

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, Melange said:

To think that everything ultimately will be bad is an easy way to look at things (and I don't say that is your style @Matt115). I was just saying that we don't know, none of us know (Well I take that back. Some folks on here may know but we should understand why they don't say much at this time). 

 

Whatever we get in vanilla A21, modders will find a way to keep giving us options. That's how the game was designed. 

 

Some players may not be bothered about changes with the new gameplay. Adapt, overcome and continue to enjoy. We have had to do that a lot. But you can be sure these forums will really light up once we can download A21 and play for a few hours. Oh my, get your wading boots ready.

 

No offense @BFT2020. Just because I don't understand wth your code entails doesn't mean I want to derail your discussion. Yep. it can all be vulnerable to change.

 

Mel

If  you mean "light up" in meaning - a lot of  new topics and argue about changes? Yes this would be true. But only because there will be something new --> there is no way to argue about old things.

 

"Whatever we get in vanilla A21, modders will find a way to keep giving us options. That's how the game was designed." Problem is that 7dtd's mod community is very... how to say?... they are doing a lot of very similiar thing each other in very similiar style.  Maybe situation will be better after final released - but i don't expect that because in some Early access games you have mods in very diffrent styles

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

Problem is that 7dtd's mod community is very... how to say?... they are doing a lot of very similiar thing each other in very similiar style. 

Or maybe you didn't look around very well then?  

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:

Or maybe you didn't look around very well then?  

Honestly... Jost you don't even know how i'm despaired right now. Okay - the most important thing for me in most games are : units enemies, furnitures buidling, npc models - you know depening on game because.... no matter how good will have mechanics but if you meet with something a lot and looks bad/in low number in boring as hell. 

For Skyrim i love mods adding lore suitable thing

for stalker .... mods that could suits into this universe - you know --> ww2 guns, mutants looking like from vanilia or cutted from beta etc.

for sw bf2 2005 - more units army 

for Shogun 2- units regions, factions etc.

 

And i was looking something for 7dtd - some new zombie types mods and overhoul

Darkness fall - lasers? zombie succubes , just big dissapointed

Enzombies - halve of zombie suit good some of them not.

 MickkPewPEW server zombies - just no no no no

Snufkin custom server side zombie - this zombie looks terrible. flying ghost ,  zombie with miniguns just.... this looks like mobile game

War of walkers - this is tough one - idk. Honestly looks good except new cars but i didn't saw all zombie models from this mod so.... i'm not totaly sure about this one - models, new POI's looks good but most new cars looks too "new" like just you took random cars from racer game

Edit. I just show longer gameplay and....  This NPC guys looks just not suitable. Guy wearing chef hat fighting with zombies? no thanks

 

 

Ok so what i would to see? something like "extended common zombie" from l4d2 or immersive creatures from skyrim - if you never played in this game you would never said that was modded

Edited August 31, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

Try this:

It's very different from the usual overhaul.  

 

I also know about an Oriental themed overhaul mod (bamboos and katanas), but can't find it right now...

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Jost Amman (see edit history)

[Matt115]

15 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Try this:

It's very different from the usual overhaul.  

 

I also know about an Oriental themed overhaul mod (bamboos and katanas), but can't find it right now...

 

Well that's my point - i want something in realistic style - usual overhaul looks ... F2P zombie mobile games 😕

I wish 7dtd was looking like no more room in hell 2 or contagion 

[Roland]

6 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Well that's my point - i want something in realistic style - usual overhaul looks ... F2P zombie mobile games 😕

I wish 7dtd was looking like no more room in hell 2 or contagion 

 

I wish you would learn to mod. I would definitely like to try out what you would define as the perfect version of 7 Days to Die for Matt115. None of the current modders seem to share your vision so the obvious solution is for you to learn and do it. I expect it by A22.

[Matt115]

20 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

I wish you would learn to mod. I would definitely like to try out what you would define as the perfect version of 7 Days to Die for Matt115. None of the current modders seem to share your vision so the obvious solution is for you to learn and do it. I expect it by A22.

I wish i could- truly. But no chance i could explain but... do you want to read about that? . Well i hope there will be some modders after released of Full version because well this "vanilia suitable " mods are pretty popular.

 

Perfect version of 7dtd for me? Well i have pretty good mood so:

Minimal version : at least 20 new zombie types in very typical "civilian clothes" - yoga girl, guy looking like hobo, few variants of zombie in "formal" clothes, few "casual " clothes zombie like Reanimated corpse.

 

Max: two variants : mild and "romeo"

Classic : 

1. removed animal zombie *

2. Skill tree redesign - weapons - LBD, "survive"- mining , farming, electricity etc - LBL  -crafting - schematics + quality depends on upgrades on workbenches

3. 3 types of workbench - basic - iron stage, advance - steel tier, industrial - "mechanical" tools

4. more tools - iron, steel and industrial have 3 variants of tools - standard, and 2 more expensive variants - 2 - bigger durabilty that standard 3- bigger dmg

5. More weapons - more types of guns, katanas, fork -  but big rework of guns - each guns have diffrent type of ammo  except shotguns - so you have to have correct ammo type for you assult rifle depening if this is AK OR M16. Gun jaming, return of guns parts, bullets number in loot reduced by 50% --> shooting can "summon" horde

6. More types of crops - tomatoes, pepper, etc. Food spoiling but you have much more types of dishes + campfire need pan for  most "meat based" food

7. Rework of most POI - some of them pretty "undamaged" some of them have environtment telling 

8. changes in RWG - corpses on roads , you can find hanging corpse on trees, more mines and "traps" like holes with spikes,  barricades on streets.

9. More props like - more types corpses, more military stuff, more vehicles,  broken weapons or tools ( can be "destroyed" to get parts

10. More traps - rebar spike and razer barbed wire

11. at least 50 new types of zombie - mostly civilans ones, few swat zombie variants, few soldier variants ---> zombie now are segraget in 4 + 1 tier : Fresh zombie - vanilia feral zombie, Normal zombie - normal zombie, decyined zombie - diffrent model in much more destroyed clothes weaker but bigger chance of infected, old zombie - almost dead zombie very weak but very high chance of infection and special zombies ---> vanilia zombie but wight reworked, drowner zombie

12. 10 new ilness - just status but you have to use diffrence mediciness to eliminated debuffs

13. Holes after shooting zombie, slash or holes after melee attack

14, Reduced loot in most containers but much in special containers like : weapon cabinet, military crate or tool box

15. Surviors colony - bigger outpost with 3 diffrent traders

 

* "romeo" variant --> zombie teenagers as fast zombie - easier to hit but bigger infection chance

 " mild"  variant--> zombie dogs as fast zombie - harder to hit but low infection chance

 

 

[BFT2020]

10 hours ago, Melange said:

 

No offense @BFT2020. Just because I don't understand wth your code entails doesn't mean I want to derail your discussion. Yep. it can all be vulnerable to change.

 

Mel

All that code does is increases the quantity of loot if the survivor has a specific perk and what level.  TFP could do the same thing with parts in loot tied to the perks.  A relatively easy thing to add since they already got the mechanic in game.

5 hours ago, Matt115 said:

I wish i could- truly. But no chance i could explain but... do you want to read about that? . Well i hope there will be some modders after released of Full version because well this "vanilia suitable " mods are pretty popular.

 

Perfect version of 7dtd for me? Well i have pretty good mood so:

Minimal version : at least 20 new zombie types in very typical "civilian clothes" - yoga girl, guy looking like hobo, few variants of zombie in "formal" clothes, few "casual " clothes zombie like Reanimated corpse.

That’s not a mod, that’s a completely different game.

[Matt115]

8 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

 

That’s not a mod, that’s a completely different game.

how 20 more zombie can be for you completely difffrent game?

[Urban Blackbear]

40 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

how 20 more zombie can be for you completely difffrent game?

 

I've tried Darkness Falls. They have all kinds of new zombies, as well as survivors and they look terrible. So do the new vehicles. Just my 2¢

[BFT2020]

38 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

how 20 more zombie can be for you completely difffrent game?

Not just the one change you mentioned, all the changes you mentioned.  All those changes can either (at a minimum) be an overhaul mod or (at most) a completely different game.

 

Though some of those things you would want are simply xml modifications, using free assets from the unity store.