Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

[Oros]

On 5/27/2023 at 11:45 PM, Laz Man said:

 

No streamer weekend this week.  Things are being assessed week to week.  Hopefully will know more by Tuesday/Wednesday next week.

Thank you for the information!

[jorbascrumps]

29 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

all it takes is one string of really bad luck and BOOM you lose

 

So, RNG then? Don't drive like a lunatic and there's nothing to worry about.

[RipClaw]

8 minutes ago, jorbascrumps said:

So, RNG then? Don't drive like a lunatic and there's nothing to worry about.

Or alternatively, keep an eye on the health of the vehicle and keep a stack of repair kits on you at all times.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this will affect streamers. They tend not to pay attention to where they are driving and instead read the chat.
 

[Laz Man]

18 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

Or alternatively, keep an eye on the health of the vehicle and keep a stack of repair kits on you at all times.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this will affect streamers. They tend not to pay attention to where they are driving and instead read the chat.
 

 

And this is why texting while driving is a no no.... 😆

[hiemfire]

45 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

They tend not to pay attention to where they are driving and instead read the chat.

With the sprint key mashed...

[Roland]

1 hour ago, RipClaw said:

Or alternatively, keep an eye on the health of the vehicle and keep a stack of repair kits on you at all times.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this will affect streamers. They tend not to pay attention to where they are driving and instead read the chat.
 

 

You know what will happen. 😆 Several people in the chat will start screaming at them to check the health of their vehicle and then they'll check it and be fine. There always seem to be few in chat who are always calling out directions and corrections and warnings and whatnot- paying way closer attention to the game than the streamer is 🤣.

[RESiDENT]

Hello, one question when? you behave like my ex, you excite but you don't give 😃 I can't wait, I'm sorry if the question is frequent and bothered you

[hiemfire]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

 

You know what will happen. 😆 Several people in the chat will start screaming at them to check the health of their vehicle and then they'll check it and be fine. There always seem to be few in chat who are always calling out directions and corrections and warnings and whatnot- paying way closer attention to the game than the streamer is 🤣.

 

More likely the streamer will get snarky at the chat for back seat gaming and then cuss up a storm when their vehicle dies and blame chat.

[x3eemguy]

On 5/28/2023 at 1:43 AM, pottervogel said:

You may give the dlcs called mods a chance. ^^

This friends is what you call a rich mindset. If you are getting it for free why pay for it.

[meganoth]

5 hours ago, Old Crow said:

Still curious to know how big of a chance vehicles will have to explode after hitting negative hit points. I know it's supposedly not likely to happen, but all it takes is one string of really bad luck and BOOM you lose your 4x4 and anything you had inside it.

 

It feels like a very player-hostile change,

 

When they added zombies to the game, did some forum users complain about player-hostile changes too ? 😎

 

5 hours ago, Old Crow said:

 

 

much like A20's farming changes, so I'm hoping it gets tweaked fairly quickly, like farming did (though farming is still pretty worthless unless you spec all the way through Living off the Land (and even then, a string of bad luck can still screw you over on getting a reasonable amount of seeds back).

 

I had multiple games with farms and I never speced above LotL1 in SP. And all those "worthless" farms were giving me back lots of food. Did I do something wrong? Or is your need for safety and security just a bit too much for a **survival** game?

 

[LilGraece]

On 5/19/2023 at 5:38 PM, faatal said:

A lot of game development does not work like that. Bugs are often their own unique tasks with many unknowns which makes time estimates vague. Many bugs are also not yet discovered, so how do you estimate time for something you don't know exists? Right now we know about x amount of bugs we want to fix, but each day testers may find zero or 5 more that are must fixes, which then takes of x amount of time each. One could be 10 minutes, another 3 days.

Except when we say 80% of bugs fixed and then the next day say 76% of bugs fixed as new ones are found. They will LOVE IT!

 

 

True Story?  

Edited May 30, 2023 by LilGraece (see edit history)

[jemriah]

I would just like to say i'd be happy to play with some bugs if it meant i got into A21 any sooner  LET IT BEGIN!!!

[Riamus]

23 minutes ago, jemriah said:

I would just like to say i'd be happy to play with some bugs if it meant i got into A21 any sooner  LET IT BEGIN!!!

I don't believe they are patching all the bugs before experimental.  However, ones that cause the game to crash or give non-stop red errors or corrupt saves and other similarly bad bugs are ones that they are going to want to fix before experimental.

8 hours ago, Old Crow said:

Still curious to know how big of a chance vehicles will have to explode after hitting negative hit points. I know it's supposedly not likely to happen, but all it takes is one string of really bad luck and BOOM you lose your 4x4 and anything you had inside it.

My guess is the chance hasn't changed from what it is now.  We just never have any real risk because it takes forever to lose enough durability to have any risk.  I'm guessing the chance is in the XML somewhere but I haven't really looked into the XML for anything beyond POI stuff.

[Old Crow]

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

When they added zombies to the game, did some forum users complain about player-hostile changes too ? 😎

 

 

I had multiple games with farms and I never speced above LotL1 in SP. And all those "worthless" farms were giving me back lots of food. Did I do something wrong? Or is your need for safety and security just a bit too much for a **survival** game?

 

Your first reply is freaking stupid.

Secondly, wasn't referring to food specifically with farming. It's the seed return. Poor seed return coupled with 5 crops to make a single seed? Not realistic. But hey, the devs want realistic vehicle damage! Hoping Living off the Land got looked at for improvement in A21.

[Yukkie]

25 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

あなたの最初の返信は本当に愚かです。

第二に、食べ物について特に農業について言及しているわけではありません。シードリターンです。1 つの種子を作るのに 5 つの作物を組み合わせると、種子の収量が悪くなりますか? 現実的ではありません。しかしまあ、開発者はリアルな車両ダメージを望んでいます! A21 では、Living off the Land の改善が検討されることを願っています。

It is indeed ridiculous!

Seeds should be easy to produce!

Implement germination rates instead.

Sometimes crops grow 100%, sometimes 0%! That would be cool! But I don't like it!

[Yukkie]

If we consider that the seeds that grow properly are carefully selected, it could be said that it is the right return.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Yukkie (see edit history)

[Laz Man]

58 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

Your first reply is freaking stupid.

Secondly, wasn't referring to food specifically with farming. It's the seed return. Poor seed return coupled with 5 crops to make a single seed? Not realistic. But hey, the devs want realistic vehicle damage! Hoping Living off the Land got looked at for improvement in A21.

 

Game is not a simulation, so there will always be some level of abstraction.  The changes to vehicle damage was not done for realism, it was to fix something that wasn't working well.  If it was for realism, we would make you do a lot more then just pop a few repair kits to fix them.   I am willing to guess most people will enjoy the change since vehicles can be used as weapons against zeds again.  😎

[meilodasreh]

5 hours ago, meganoth said:

Or is your need for safety and security just a bit too much for a **survival** game?

Ha! This!

This is me.

Every time I have to nibble into the last row of full stacks in my storage boxes, I might die of agonal respiration irl instead of hunger/thirst in the game. 😄

 

Btw I hope that hoarder outfit (A22+ I know) will give some benefits like more harvest. Or more inventory slots. Or never encumbered. Or bigger stack sizes. Or special giant storage boxes.

*fingers crossed for the answer will be: Yes, in that order*

Edited May 30, 2023 by meilodasreh (see edit history)

[Old Crow]

56 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

Ha! This!

This is me.

Every time I have to nibble into the last row of full stacks in my storage boxes, I might die of agonal respiration irl instead of hunger/thirst in the game. 😄

 

Btw I hope that hoarder outfit (A22+ I know) will give some benefits like more harvest. Or more inventory slots. Or never encumbered. Or bigger stack sizes. Or special giant storage boxes.

*fingers crossed for the answer will be: Yes, in that order*

 

I feel like a salvager outfit would have benefits to harvesting, and would be pleasantly unsurprised to find one in A22. It'd make sense.

1 hour ago, Laz Man said:

 

Game is not a simulation, so there will always be some level of abstraction.  The changes to vehicle damage was not done for realism, it was to fix something that wasn't working well.  If it was for realism, we would make you do a lot more then just pop a few repair kits to fix them.   I am willing to guess most people will enjoy the change since vehicles can be used as weapons against zeds again.  😎

 

They probably shouldn't mentioned it also being for realism during the dev stream then...

[Riamus]

3 hours ago, Old Crow said:

Secondly, wasn't referring to food specifically with farming. It's the seed return. Poor seed return coupled with 5 crops to make a single seed? Not realistic. But hey, the devs want realistic vehicle damage! Hoping Living off the Land got looked at for improvement in A21.

This is something that I hear regularly but isn't quite what it seems.  You are getting crops every couple of days, varying based on time settings.  In reality, you'd have to wait 2-3 months or longer depending on the crop.  What you are seeing is an abstraction of farming, where you can get your food far more quickly but in lesser quantities.  In the same way, you are getting fewer seeds each time as an adjustment for the speed you are farming as well.  It is an abstraction, yes.  But it also brings things closer to a realistic number if you consider the time involved.  Even then, it's probably too much.  After all, one farm box with a corn stalk in it would generally produce only a couple of ears of corn and take 2-3 months or so.  In the game, even if you harvest only once every 3 days, you're still going to get at least 20 harvests within the realistic time frame (at the lowest end of that).  At tier 3 LotL, you get 1 corn + 1 seed if you have to craft a seed.  That would still mean over 20 ears of corn in the same time frame, which is around at least 10 times realistic numbers.  And that's assuming 20 failed RNG attempts at getting seeds.  So if we're talking reality, you're still getting far more in what would be the realistic time frame.  Now, other plants have different times for harvest and different numbers of produce per plant but I think if you calculate out what you'd get from a single plant in real life compared to what you get from a single plant in the game if expanded to a realistic growing season for that plant, you'll easily see that you're getting more than is realistic, not less.  Add in that you can plant non-stop without regard to seasons and your numbers go up 4-6 times more just by being able to plant "year round" (for a crop that has a single harvest per season - some have more than one).

 

So yes, it does sounds bad when you only think about what you get from a single harvest but you're still getting more than reality over the course of the same time period.  And for the game, this abstraction and these numbers are for gameplay anyhow.  You can already easily farm so much food that you could feed an army with little real effort other than time to plant and harvest and craft seeds.  Giving people even more isn't good for balance.  As it is, less would be a better option because food is so abundant and easy after the first couple of days.  It's the same thing with hunting... it is just so easy to get so much meat that it makes food kind of pointless.

 

All this being said, I do agree that certain crops, like corn, do have significant numbers of "seeds" per plant if you were to harvest them and if you had the space and were to plant all those, you'd get far more crops and output the second season.  But it does still have to fit in with what works for gameplay and as I said, farming and food in general are far too easy as it is.  I think if you want it to be even easier, you're probably going to have to edit the XML for it.  After all, since they are adjusting water so it's not as easy in A21, there's a pretty good chance they'll also adjust food in a later alpha before gold.  And the adjustment, like with water, will probably be less and not more.

[Aldranon]

IMO:

Farming isn't very useful if any points are used.  I use points on things that deal with "Immediate Dangers." 

By the time cans are harder to find and the chickens and rabbits stop showing up, I'm normally ready to start hunting in the snow biome. 

If I can't find a large enough snow biome... there could be a problem.

 

As I don't fully understand how A21 works yet, everything might turn out different.

[Riamus]

2 minutes ago, Aldranon said:

IMO:

Farming isn't very useful if any points are used.  I use points on things that deal with "Immediate Dangers." 

By the time cans are harder to find and the chickens and rabbits stop showing up, I'm normally ready to start hunting in the snow biome. 

If I can't find a large enough snow biome... there could be a problem.

 

As I don't fully understand how A21 works yet, everything might turn out different.

Yeah, this is a common feeling for many people.  For me, I hate having to eat all the time, so I need vegetables to cook better quality food than just what you can get from hunting, so farming is essential for me.  *BUT*, I will not put points into LotL until I've filled out a lot of other perks that are far more important, like you pointed out.  And I will not farm until I have LotL3 because it just feels like a waste to do so since I know it'll be more productive at the higher level.

[Callum123456789]

I agree if you just carry around seeds then grow them they are taking precious inventory slots up in your truck drone or your own inventory which could store items to sell general supplies for base or ammo meds etc more carrying capacity it makes it a drag early game if you don't spec into living off the land 3 I know in the end game you'll likely have a lot more slots but optimally you wouldn't want to be seed hunting on your travels.

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Callum123456789 (see edit history)

[LordMiG]

3 hours ago, Aldranon said:

IMO:

Farming isn't very useful if any points are used.  I use points on things that deal with "Immediate Dangers." 

By the time cans are harder to find and the chickens and rabbits stop showing up, I'm normally ready to start hunting in the snow biome. 

If I can't find a large enough snow biome... there could be a problem.

 

I've played my last two playthroughs of A20 on a '25% loot' setting and with a modlet that completely removes traders from RWG. Also no airdrops.

 

Putting some points into 'Living off the land' is the only way to survive for me because all I get from looting are maybe two cans of food per week. In the beginning of a playthrough I'm getting most of my food from hunting with a bow (ammo is very hard to get on 25% loot) and harvesting corn and potatoes from POIs.

 

For me the game plays so much better when you make survival a bit harder.

 

[Morloc]

35 minutes ago, LordMiG said:

For me the game plays so much better when you make survival a bit harder.

 

25% loot changes everything.

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 💀