Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Old Crow]

32 minutes ago, FramFramson said:

 

Squirrely is the word alright. The way the motorbike floops and flops around at any real speed (vanilla, not modded!), especially with the turbo on, drives me @%$#ing nuts.

 

Yeah, the 4x4 does this too. even driving on straightaways, it occasionally slides wildly with tiny adjustments to drive around derelict cars and shopping carts.

 

9 hours ago, SnowDog1942 said:

Your nuts

 

What about my nuts?

[Kalex]

10 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

Then why don't you drive? 

That's what I was referring to, the vehicles in the game handle like crap. So the only time I am in a vehicle in game is when my husband is driving his motorcycle or the jeep.

[hiemfire]

1 hour ago, Old Crow said:

What about my nuts?

Don't bait snowdog unless you're looking for an off color chuckle. They're the resident raunchy bi-perv that doesn't take anything other than consent seriously.

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, Kalex said:

That's what I was referring to, the vehicles in the game handle like crap. So the only time I am in a vehicle in game is when my husband is driving his motorcycle or the jeep.

They were purposely misreading your words to make a joke... You don't like how "they" drive, so why don't "you" drive instead.  I'm sure they agree with your take on the way vehicles handle on this game.  😀

 

The motorcycle is especially annoying when it just slides back and forth for a long ways before straightening out unless you stop and tilt side to side repeatedly whenever you make the slightest adjustment.  Anyone driving a motorcycle like that in real life is going to be on the ground really quickly.

[meganoth]

Are you sure it is crap handling and not just a shred of realism in the driving part? I.e. that doing a sudden sharp curve while driving fast destabilizes your vehicle. The vehicles can't topple so all they do when you oversteer is getting into an oscillation where in reality they would topple or crash.

 

I am just asking, I don't have an opinion yet. I sometimes get into this oscillation too but assumed this is because I was making a driving mistake since it always seems to happen when I try to avoid an obstacle in the last millisecond.

 

 

[Adam the Waster]

I think it's good enough.  Not every game needs hyper realistic driving or has to be perfect 

 

The only thing really right now the game needs is bandits, new special zombies, optimization and whatever little improvements 

 

Like eatting animations, more craft able decor/parts and more game settings 

 

The game is so close! I can taste it! *giggity*

Edited September 6, 2023 by Adam the Waster (see edit history)

[Matt115]

6 hours ago, Adam the Waster said:

I think it's good enough.  Not every game needs hyper realistic driving or has to be perfect 

 

The only thing really right now the game needs is bandits, new special zombies, optimization and whatever little improvements 

 

Like eatting animations, more craft able decor/parts and more game settings 

 

The game is so close! I can taste it! *giggity*

NEED MUCH MORE SKELETONS! and other corpses for sure.

 

Well i think realistic driving could be good thing for sequel

[Kalex]

8 hours ago, meganoth said:

Are you sure it is crap handling and not just a shred of realism in the driving part? I.e. that doing a sudden sharp curve while driving fast destabilizes your vehicle. The vehicles can't topple so all they do when you oversteer is getting into an oscillation where in reality they would topple or crash.

 

I am just asking, I don't have an opinion yet. I sometimes get into this oscillation too but assumed this is because I was making a driving mistake since it always seems to happen when I try to avoid an obstacle in the last millisecond.

 

 

Well, having driven bicycles, minibikes, motorcycles, and cars in real life, no, they aren't the least bit realistic as to handling. Plus there are some seriously wonky camera controls when you are driving.

[Riamus]

9 hours ago, meganoth said:

Are you sure it is crap handling and not just a shred of realism in the driving part? I.e. that doing a sudden sharp curve while driving fast destabilizes your vehicle. The vehicles can't topple so all they do when you oversteer is getting into an oscillation where in reality they would topple or crash.

 

I am just asking, I don't have an opinion yet. I sometimes get into this oscillation too but assumed this is because I was making a driving mistake since it always seems to happen when I try to avoid an obstacle in the last millisecond.

 

Well, I think that it would be better if you only had the spin out and not the back and forth slides that can last for a long ways and no tilting side to side repeatedly.  At least the spin out feels like it can make sense even though a 180 degree spin out isn't going to happen on a motorcycle or minibike.  But the repeated side to side slides that can repeat for 6-8 times if you don't stop are just annoying.  A slight change in terrain can cause this if you are making even a minor turn.  You can tap right or left and end up tilting back and for 3-6 times even though you're only turning maybe 5-10 degrees, which shouldn't have any affect on your driving.  It might be intended as an alternative to a crash but in the end it just looks really bad and, in my opinion, doesn't provide any real value to the game.  The spin out is fine even if I don't like that can trigger from very minor turns.  But the others just look bad and make driving annoying.  I already won't use the 4x4 anymore because of the damage it takes, so I can't even avoid the motorcycle for the less unstable driving of the 4x4.

[FramFramson]

10 hours ago, meganoth said:

Are you sure it is crap handling and not just a shred of realism in the driving part? I.e. that doing a sudden sharp curve while driving fast destabilizes your vehicle. The vehicles can't topple so all they do when you oversteer is getting into an oscillation where in reality they would topple or crash.

 

I am just asking, I don't have an opinion yet. I sometimes get into this oscillation too but assumed this is because I was making a driving mistake since it always seems to happen when I try to avoid an obstacle in the last millisecond.

 

 

 

I do ride a motorbike IRL and the vanilla animations are just waaaay beyond goofy. It's like your bike is a weeble-wobble taped to the ground during those moments. IRL if you wobbled that much you'd go flying and end up in pieces, but at the same time, you'd never wobble that much on a turn unless you were doing something very, very wrong (like physically jacking the handlebars around).

 

IMO they just need to tone down the rubberbanding animations so it's not so severe. The speeds we travel in game are fairly slow by IRL standards after all!

[meganoth]

8 minutes ago, FramFramson said:

IRL if you wobbled that much you'd go flying

 

But that's the thing, the game has no motorcycle crashing and you flying off animation (or does it? At least it surely isn't implemented yet). So you are glued to the motorcycle no matter what you do and the wobbling is maybe the equivalent of you getting thrown off. The important question then would be whether you get "thrown off" too easy. Or if it would be more fun to really be thrown off instead of wobbling?

 

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Riamus]

Based on riding dirt bikes, I think the wobble and sliding back and forth happen far too easily even if you were to equate that to falling off.  Granted, the motorcycle isn't exactly meant for off-road based on its looks, but it is still not going to handle that poorly in real life driving over the terrain we drive over.  I've had it go into back and forth sliding on almost level ground just because there is a very slight change in elevation when I'm turning slightly.  That wouldn't happen and wouldn't cause a crash if you are even somewhat skilled at riding.

 

If it was made to occur only when making excessive changes in directions, then I wouldn't really mind even if it is unrealistic.  But right now it just happens far too easily over the terrain we have from nothing more than tapping the turn keys.  After all, even if you don't get the excessive wobbling back and forth that sometimes happens, even the slightest turn will cause you to lean one way and then the other, one time each, every time.  Even on asphalt.

 

Watch someone on a motorcycle when they turn in real life.  They may lean into a turn, but they'll come back to vertical and not lean the other way after.  And the game isn't even leaning into turns as that wobble occurs after you straighten out.

[Survager]

What is "Player Inventory Preference System"?

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, Survager said:

What is "Player Inventory Preference System"?

I was going to ask that as well.  I'm hoping it means we can lock inventory spots so they don't move when moving all items from one container to another.

[Old Crow]

1 hour ago, Riamus said:

I was going to ask that as well.  I'm hoping it means we can lock inventory spots so they don't move when moving all items from one container to another.

 

I downloaded the experimental and couldn't find any settings for this feature. It seems it may have been added to the patch notes, but wasn't implemented.

[beerfly]

3 hours ago, Old Crow said:

 

I downloaded the experimental and couldn't find any settings for this feature. It seems it may have been added to the patch notes, but wasn't implemented.

Same here. Either that or it is different thing of what we think it is. 

Would be great addition if it is what we think.

Edited September 7, 2023 by beerfly (see edit history)

[Old Crow]

1 hour ago, beerfly said:

Same here. Either that or it is different thing of what we think it is. 

Would be great addition if it is what we think.

 

Unfortunately after digging through settings and the game itself while playing, I found nothing that has anything to do with inventory preferences. Hopefully they'll address it.

[FramFramson]

12 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

But that's the thing, the game has no motorcycle crashing and you flying off animation (or does it? At least it surely isn't implemented yet). So you are glued to the motorcycle no matter what you do and the wobbling is maybe the equivalent of you getting thrown off. The important question then would be whether you get "thrown off" too easy. Or if it would be more fun to really be thrown off instead of wobbling?

 

 

I mean we do actually have vehicle crashing, we just don't have it so that you go flying out of or off the vehicle when it crashes. But the vehicle can be destroyed, can fly through the air and crash with enough of a ramp/hole/whatever, and the player can be killed or hurt on impact. It can also spin out.

 

The wobbling doesn't equal you being thrown off because you, uh, don't get thrown off (but also it's an almost entirely visual effect). Which kind of gets at the problem - the game is displaying data which implies you're losing control of your vehicle, when in fact you're not. It's not just a "looks goofy" problem, it's a legitimate functional issue, at least for a newer player.

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, FramFramson said:

I mean we do actually have vehicle crashing, we just don't have it so that you go flying out of or off the vehicle when it crashes. But the vehicle can be destroyed, can fly through the air and crash with enough of a ramp/hole/whatever, and the player can be killed or hurt on impact. It can also spin out.

 

I don't see vehicles crashing. I see the motorbike toppling over but the only result is that the bike is pointed into a random location but you sitting perfectly on it without getting any damage. There is nothing there that would look like you simply losing control and getting thrown off (i.e. what you would see in motorbike races when the driver loses control).

 

But you made a good point here, "losing control" would be the better term to describe the intended cause instead of "crashing".

 

3 hours ago, FramFramson said:

The wobbling doesn't equal you being thrown off because you, uh, don't get thrown off (but also it's an almost entirely visual effect). Which kind of gets at the problem - the game is displaying data which implies you're losing control of your vehicle, when in fact you're not.

 

You have to explain that. You ARE losing control of the vehicle when the wobbling starts, the only thing that is missing is a chance to get thrown off.

 

3 hours ago, FramFramson said:

ot just a "looks goofy" problem, it's a legitimate functional issue, at least for a newer player.

 

I don't see new players complaining. I see a few veterans complaining. 😉

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Matt115]

6 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

I don't see new players complaining. I see a few veterans complaining. 😉

Ehh simple - because they don't know how it should works like. I give example : 

You are new guy who started playing in total war. For you everything is fine. But for person who played 265 hours many things is unfinshed, working bad or just unfair. Did you know that in Shogun 2 Ai often spawn free units for itself? So for new player it's not problem because... this person don't know about it.

So -  Veterans opinions mean much much more that new players

[meganoth]

34 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Ehh simple - because they don't know how it should works like.

 

So it seems to work for them. Then why does FramFramson claim it would be an issue especially for them?

 

34 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

You are new guy who started playing in total war. For you everything is fine. But for person who played 265 hours many things is unfinshed, working bad or just unfair. Did you know that in Shogun 2 Ai often spawn free units for itself? So for new player it's not problem because... this person don't know about it.

 

Unfair? Sorry, that is silly. In many strategy games the AI is so weak that it needs additional units to make the game challenging and fun. A new player probably gives a rats ass about fairness when he would be bored to death by a fair game.

 

A veteran player can complain about the weak AI and the hokey way of correcting it because he notices it and it actually decreases his fun exactly because he sees the trick being done, but that is a complaint strictly about his own enjoyment of the game, not about new players not having fun.

 

For once I'll give an example to you: Someone newly watching a magician do a magic trick will have fun because he doesn't see the trick. A veteran of magician shows (lets say another magician) who already knows most tricks will more likely be bored because he knows what is done and the awe is gone.

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Blake_]

Thank you TFP for a21.2 It fixes a few of the most game breaking bugs while also adding death penalty. Finally, I can horribly die while triggering a trap at the end of a POI! And with consequences too! 

[mstdv inc]

You're dying (fainting). You wake up in one of Dr. Jen's tents. She says that someone from her group found you unconscious and brought you here. You feel better now.
It's time to pay. 25,000 dukes or 5 quests and we're even. Good motivation not to die anymore.
 

I like the new function of punishment for death, but still, between the option with the preservation of all debuffs and the complete reset of the character, there is not enough option with a fine in dukes or with a constant decrease in the points of characteristics / the number of books read. (Amnesia)

[meilodasreh]

2 hours ago, mstdv inc said:

Good motivation not to die anymore.

Actually never heard of a better motivation to die all the time.

Waking up in Jen's bed and then have to serve her cause I'm in her debt.

 

[FramFramson]

5 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

So it seems to work for them. Then why does FramFramson claim it would be an issue especially for them?

 

 

Unfair? Sorry, that is silly. In many strategy games the AI is so weak that it needs additional units to make the game challenging and fun. A new player probably gives a rats ass about fairness when he would be bored to death by a fair game.

 

A veteran player can complain about the weak AI and the hokey way of correcting it because he notices it and it actually decreases his fun exactly because he sees the trick being done, but that is a complaint strictly about his own enjoyment of the game, not about new players not having fun.

 

For once I'll give an example to you: Someone newly watching a magician do a magic trick will have fun because he doesn't see the trick. A veteran of magician shows (lets say another magician) who already knows most tricks will more likely be bored because he knows what is done and the awe is gone.

 

 

How would a new player even know to come on here and ask about it?

 

Just because they're not on here complaining about it, doesn't mean they're not making assumptions about the way the vehicle handles based on the animations, which should, in theory, be representative of motion.

 

But it's not. The wobble as we see it is not only annoying, it's not physically possible IRL (without crashing). The game is providing unrepresentative feedback in this case, and while some silliness can be explained away as quirks of game physics, the motorbike wobble is so blatant as to be out of scale with even the rest of the games liberties with physics. It's also just... unnecessary.

 

It's a visible graphical problem caused by incorrect application of unity physics to the motorbike models in-game. We don't have to pretend this bug is some kind of intended feature.