Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[RipClaw]

1 hour ago, Mister Forgash said:

The way I see it, it's just plain balance. The trader in this iteration is very strong. I think it's too strong. There may even be enough people agreeing to give credence to this claim. 

Are you referring to items you can buy from the trader or quest rewards? These are two different tables that need to be balanced separately.

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by RipClaw (see edit history)

[sillls]

Do chickens and Rabbits want to get run over? 

I will be riding my bike and I see one of those critters. I go after them sometimes but otherwise I just leave them alone because I am in a hurry, or I am loaded down. 

Well, I see them. The next thing I know, they are running beside me. Suddenly, they dart into my bike and that it for them. 

They are kind of like a squirrel but a bit too slow. lol

 

[Professor-Pip]

Just wanted to mention that the new Vehicle Physics are a fantastic improvement! It feels much more natural now, going up and down hills and coasting a bit. Thanks, @faatal!

[meganoth]

43 minutes ago, sillls said:

Do chickens and Rabbits want to get run over? 

I will be riding my bike and I see one of those critters. I go after them sometimes but otherwise I just leave them alone because I am in a hurry, or I am loaded down. 

Well, I see them. The next thing I know, they are running beside me. Suddenly, they dart into my bike and that it for them. 

They are kind of like a squirrel but a bit too slow. lol

 

 

I would call them lemmings 😉

[hiemfire]

10 hours ago, Eduho said:

Buenas, las dos cosas , es lo raro 

Sounds like a bug to me. You can report it directly by clicking this link (or the "Report an Alpha 21 bug" banner at the top of this page) and following the directions there:

Report an Alpha 21 Bug! - 7 Days to Die

 

 

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Mister Forgash said:

I usually think your takes are spot on, but I'm going to disagree here. I think this argument sounds really close to that made with certain horde base designs that took advantage of blocks zombies wouldn't cross/break to stay safe through the night, and then people would say 'I'm just playing the game the way I want, why is that a problem to you?'

The way I see it, it's just plain balance. The trader in this iteration is very strong. I think it's too strong. There may even be enough people agreeing to give credence to this claim. 
Gaming with my friends, it's day... 12? he's perception build, lucky looter maxed, no int., vanilla settings except 75% loot 125%XP We'd gotten him a Q2 iron spear early in the week- as we're working through our T3 quests with the trader and do turn ins, he gets a level 5 steel spear as a quest reward. .. From T2Q2 to T3Q5 and again, he's not even spec'd into traders, nor were we that deep in the trader quests. I don't think it's on the player to say 'I don't want -that-' much of an upgrade, it's on the development to make sure player progression is smoothed.

 

I have a similar experience now. Group of 4, on day 12 as well, but two of us have specced into DA. We have a bunch of tier3 items: I think about 2-3 steel armors, 1 military armor, pickaxe, axe and shovel in steel, tier3 wrench whatever it is called. A steel sledgehammer and maybe steel spear and shotgun. All either bought from the trader or as quest rewards.

 

In loot we found a few iron level items, crafting of some weapons has not even reached quality 3 stone. I don't think crafting and loot are that much apart, just finding less cooking and medicine magazines might almost make up for the difference. Part of the trader problem may be DA, another part is probably that quests just give too much dukes in addition to the item rewards. We could afford everything interesting we saw at the trader

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Riamus]

6 hours ago, zztong said:

 

Raimus covered this a little. They are available from the Trader, but I don't yet know at what point in A21. In A20, they were available very late in the game and I think you had to use Perks to improve your relationship.

 

I do vaguely recall only quality 3+ cells came from the Trader and that I had added some XML code to a private game to allow quality 1 and 2 cells to be available earlier. I went looking for that code, and here it is. Note that this was for A20 and I've not tried it in A21.

 

<traders>
    <!-- Add lower quality Solar stuff to the Trader's electrical group.. -->
    <insertAfter xpath="/traders/trader_item_groups/trader_item_group[@name='traderElectrical']/item[@name='switch']">
        <item name="solarbank" count="1"/>
        <item name="solarCell" count="1,2" quality="1,2"/>
    </insertAfter>
</traders>

 

I'm sure the Devs are thinking "free power" is a game play issue, and I would agree. Though as a solar enthusiast, I like to see it in the game and not just a final thought before I shutdown my world and move to a new game, if I even get that far into the game.

In A20, you would find solar banks with Better Barter 4 and solar cells with Better Barter 5, I believe.  And by default, you could get any quality level from 1-6 from them.  Maybe that was changed in an alpha later than when you made that change in yours?  At least, I was seeing quality 1 and 2 cells now and then.

3 hours ago, Mister Forgash said:

I usually think your takes are spot on, but I'm going to disagree here. I think this argument sounds really close to that made with certain horde base designs that took advantage of blocks zombies wouldn't cross/break to stay safe through the night, and then people would say 'I'm just playing the game the way I want, why is that a problem to you?'

The way I see it, it's just plain balance. The trader in this iteration is very strong. I think it's too strong. There may even be enough people agreeing to give credence to this claim. 
Gaming with my friends, it's day... 12? he's perception build, lucky looter maxed, no int., vanilla settings except 75% loot 125%XP We'd gotten him a Q2 iron spear early in the week- as we're working through our T3 quests with the trader and do turn ins, he gets a level 5 steel spear as a quest reward. .. From T2Q2 to T3Q5 and again, he's not even spec'd into traders, nor were we that deep in the trader quests. I don't think it's on the player to say 'I don't want -that-' much of an upgrade, it's on the development to make sure player progression is smoothed.

Maybe Lucky Looter plays a part in quest rewards?  I'm not really certain what factors affect those.  If so, then that might not be unexpected.  I don't disagree that the rewards can be adjusted.  My point was only that you have the option to play in a way that you enjoy or in a way you don't enjoy.  I've seen many people say that they have to play efficiently and that they don't like playing that way.  That is a choice regardless of any balancing in the game.  Traders are meant to be used even if some people don't want to use them, so they will be a big part of the game's design choices but it is possible not to use them or to use them less often or various other choices someone might make depending on what they like or don't like, regardless of what is most efficient.  But, like I said, it probably could use some balancing for rewards and/or inventory.

 

What may have happened is that they reduced drop chances of weapons/tools/armor in loot in A21 to balance a bit with crafting but they might not have adjusted quest rewards and trader inventory.  Trader stage is also new, so it's also likely that they just need to work on how it's calculated to get a better result.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Magnus33john]

1 hour ago, Professor-Pip said:

Just wanted to mention that the new Vehicle Physics are a fantastic improvement! It feels much more natural now, going up and down hills and coasting a bit. Thanks, @faatal!

Vehicle Physics  are indeed better but most everything else with them is now a mess. Speeds are all over the place with reverse having faster acceleration then forward and speeds of most vehicles are now broken.

The mini bike now has far better acceleration  then anything else and turbo is a nightmare at best.

 

When a chicken can beat you up a slight hill there a problem  lol.

 

Turbo either works or suddenly the whole game hits light speed and moves like you suddenly started channelling spaceballs.

 

Then there the damage from crashing into something which is all over the place. You can run full tilt into a iron node and do very little or clip a tree at 1 km and basically destroy the vehicle.

 

[Riamus]

2 minutes ago, Magnus33john said:

Vehicle Physics  are indeed better but most everything else with them is now a mess. Speeds are all over the place with reverse having faster acceleration then forward and speeds of most vehicles are now broken.

The mini bike now has far better acceleration  then anything else and turbo is a nightmare at best.

 

When a chicken can beat you up a slight hill there a problem  lol.

 

Turbo either works or suddenly the whole game hits light speed and moves like you suddenly started channelling spaceballs.

 

Then there the damage from crashing into something which is all over the place. You can run full tilt into a iron node and do very little or clip a tree at 1 km and basically destroy the vehicle.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure I'm a fan of the changes there, though I haven't used a supercharger yet - I can't find the stupid schematic - so I don't have much experience with how that part works.  But I really don't like having to slow down so slowly even with spacebar pressed.  I get it that it's more realistic than stopping within a meter or so but I still prefer quick stops with the spacebar.  Slow stops when you use down to slow down are fine.  I'm also someone who often jumps off the vehicle while it's still moving to go do something like open an air drop and having the vehicle continue on for a longer distance than before is annoying, though that's something I can just get used to stopping first if it bugs me enough.  It's really the time to stop with the spacebar that I don't really care for.

[Eduho]

Hace 1 hora, hiemfire dijo:

Suena como un error para mí. Puede informarlo directamente haciendo clic en este enlace (o en el banner "Informar de un error Alpha 21" en la parte superior de esta página) y siguiendo las instrucciones allí:

¡Reporta un error de Alpha 21! - 7 días para morir

 

 

Gracias , lo hare asi  

[Riamus]

I haven't noticed anyone commenting on this change in A21 and don't really feel like starting a thread just to comment on it but I really like that the wires are no longer visible except when you use the wire tool.  This is such a great improvement and saves me a lot of time trying to get wires to go where I want so they are either hidden or at least look good.  It is sooo much easier when I don't have to worry about that and can just hook stuff up and assume the wires are running through the walls, ceiling, floor, etc.

[Mister Forgash]

2 hours ago, RipClaw said:

Are you referring to items you can buy from the trader or quest rewards? These are two different tables that need to be balanced separately.

In that specific case, quest rewards.  I think both could use more toning down, but I'd look through the quest rewards first.

[Exxodous]

I'm not sure if this is a bug or intended but when my repulser mod "fires" in the stun baton it sends not only the Z's flying but also my teammates? It's actually quite funny and they even seem to do a little breakdance but it is starting to irritate my wife lol. Can anyone confirm if this is the intended consequence to using this mod?

[NekoPawtato]

2 minutes ago, Exxodous said:

I'm not sure if this is a bug or intended but when my repulser mod "fires" in the stun baton it sends not only the Z's flying but also my teammates? It's actually quite funny and they even seem to do a little breakdance but it is starting to irritate my wife lol. Can anyone confirm if this is the intended consequence to using this mod?

It was on their known issues list for a while, but seems like it's fixed now in their internal builds

 

[Magnus33john]

2 hours ago, Riamus said:

Yeah, I'm not sure I'm a fan of the changes there, though I haven't used a supercharger yet - I can't find the stupid schematic - so I don't have much experience with how that part works.  But I really don't like having to slow down so slowly even with spacebar pressed.  I get it that it's more realistic than stopping within a meter or so but I still prefer quick stops with the spacebar.  Slow stops when you use down to slow down are fine.  I'm also someone who often jumps off the vehicle while it's still moving to go do something like open an air drop and having the vehicle continue on for a longer distance than before is annoying, though that's something I can just get used to stopping first if it bugs me enough.  It's really the time to stop with the spacebar that I don't really care for.

I can handle the physic changes as it reflex's more of how they would really react but the fact they broke so much else doing so and went stable is beyond me.  They should have held off a week to get it right rather then rush this as stable.

[zztong]

3 hours ago, Magnus33john said:

When a chicken can beat you up a slight hill there a problem  lol.

 

I don't know, that sounds a lot like a Buell Blast I once rode.

[Magnus33john]

1 hour ago, zztong said:

 

I don't know, that sounds a lot like a Buell Blast I once rode.

lol i thought most of them ended up like this

[mstdv inc]

Should a zombie die from a falling tree?

 

Spoiler

 

 

[meilodasreh]

I would guess that was staged.

Maybe he got a few hits on the zombie with the axe before (or with any other bladed weapon),

and then timed it to made it look like it was the tree falling on him, but he just bled out.

[Sephiroth87xz]

20 hours ago, RipClaw said:

I honestly doubt that they will ever really be able to balance it so that it works for every playthrough and every playstyle.

 

Crafting, looting and the trader all have their own status values that needs to be balanced. You can think of it as trying to synchronise a bunch of different clocks. Over time the clocks will diverge and show different times.

 

There are too many variables that affect progress in crafting for it to be reliably predictable. For looting, progress depends on the biome and the level of POIs, and for the trader, it all depends on how many quests you do and whether you invest points in Daring Adventurer.

 

To balance all this, you would have to combine everything under one status value and remove all bonuses and modifiers. The best thing that the developers could do is to determine a kind of average gameplay from as many gameplays as possible.

Not a simple problem of playstystyle.

 

Trader/quests/loot lack of a linear progression.

 

Is too easy to jump quality level or even tier of weapons.

 

The game offered me steel spear and 44 magnum in the first 20/30 days of playing with loot and trader, a serious problem of balance.

 

I even found a pistol in the first week totally jumping the pipe tier.

 

And not true there are not predictable variable.

 

Developers can choice when you found an item and how much times.

 

After all Developers introduced magazine system even to give a more linear progression to crafting and make not skip/overlap tiers of weapons/tools.

 

Developers should apply similar limit to traders/quests/loot.

 

Jumping quality and tiers of weapons too easily make the game too easy, break the progression and make useless various things developers created, surely not a situation can stay in this way.

 

Is normal for Developers do balancing in this situation.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Sephiroth87xz (see edit history)

[FranticDan]

We have over 2000 building blocks, and wedge tip stairs still don't have a railing option 😭

[saltychipmunk]

5 hours ago, Sephiroth87xz said:

Not a simple problem of playstystyle.

 

Trader/quests/loot lack of a linear progression.

 

Is too easy to jump quality level or even tier of weapons.

 

The game offered me steel spear and 44 magnum in the first 20/30 days of playing with loot and trader, a serious problem of balance.

 

I even found a pistol in the first week totally jumping the pipe tier.

 

And not true there are not predictable variable.

 

Developers can choice when you found an item and how much times.

 

After all Developers introduced magazine system even to give a more linear progression to crafting and make not skip/overlap tiers of weapons/tools.

 

Developers should apply similar limit to traders/quests/loot.

 

Jumping quality and tiers of weapons too easily make the game too easy, break the progression and make useless various things developers created, surely not a situation can stay in this way.

 

Is normal for Developers do balancing in this situation.

Yeah I noticed this too.  I barely found enough magazines to craft a teir 3 pipe shotgun and the freaken trader just gives me a tier 5 pump shotgun.  and before that a tier 3 double barrel shotgun.

 

Now my only upgrade is the auto shotgun but  ill  probably earn one off of a quest long before i can craft it .. which is just.. crazy...

Its only day 9 in my world

Edited July 5, 2023 by saltychipmunk (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

5 hours ago, Sephiroth87xz said:

Trader/quests/loot lack of a linear progression.

They have a linear progress but each for itself. The hard part is to keep traders / quests / crafting and loot in sync.

 

For example, if you only level up but don't do any quests and don't have any points in Daring Adventurer, you will see a linear progression in the trader inventory. If you do quests or have points in Daring Adventurer then you accelerate this progression by increasing the Traderstage.

 

Quest rewards are based on quest tier and get better with higher quest tiers. If you do a T5 quest you don't want to get the same reward as for a T3 or T2 quest.

 

The lootstage depends on your level, the biome you are in and the POI tier. In addition, there is a bonus that you get via points in Lucky Looter. If you are in the pine forest then your lootstage is lower than if you are in the desert, in the snow biome or in the Wasteland. Biomes with a higher lootstage also have a higher risk and POIs with a higher level have more zombies and therefore a higher risk. Accordingly, the player expects better loot

 

For example, I'm mostly in the pine forest, I've limited myself to only one quest a day and have no points in Daring Adventurer or Lucky Looter, and I've seen linear progress in quests, trader and loot. And I've often been able to craft even better stuff than I would have been able to find, buy, or get as quest rewards.

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by RipClaw (see edit history)

[Rince]

38 minutes ago, saltychipmunk said:

Yeah I noticed this too.  I barely found enough magazines to craft a teir 3 pipe shotgun and the freaken trader just gives me a tier 5 pump shotgun.  and before that a tier 3 double barrel shotgun.

 

Now my only upgrade is the auto shotgun but  ill  probably earn one off of a quest long before i can craft it .. which is just.. crazy...

Its only day 9 in my world

Do you have points in daring adventurer or lucky looter?

 

Because I keep reading of people getting lots of good stuff from the traders and I only got, like 3 good rewards in all my 60 days of gameplay. A T6 machete (which I don't use), a T4 lever action rifle (replaced by a T5 crafted and soon to be replaced by a crafted sniper rifle) and a T4 tactical rifle (I only need a few more magazines to craft a T5 anyways).

 

And I wonder, why so much diference? The RNG is that wild? Daring adventurer (I have 1 point) and lucky looter make a big difference?

[saltychipmunk]

44 minutes ago, Rince said:

Do you have points in daring adventurer or lucky looter?

 

Because I keep reading of people getting lots of good stuff from the traders and I only got, like 3 good rewards in all my 60 days of gameplay. A T6 machete (which I don't use), a T4 lever action rifle (replaced by a T5 crafted and soon to be replaced by a crafted sniper rifle) and a T4 tactical rifle (I only need a few more magazines to craft a T5 anyways).

 

And I wonder, why so much diference? The RNG is that wild? Daring adventurer (I have 1 point) and lucky looter make a big difference?

I am fully dedicated to strength.  so i am 7 str  5 miner 69r 5 motherload , 4 with clubs and 4 with shotguns. 

Nothing else. 

From experience lucky looter basically does nothing until you really juice your game stage. 

Frankly I think the core problem is less the traders inventory and more the quest rewards. if you blast through quests (not that hard if you know what you are doing) you can easily  hit the milestone rewards for a trader. and when you do that the choices you get can be waaaaay over tuned.

 

And this is only made more problematic if you play with other people and share quests with them.

The traders probably need a setting for scaling how many quests you need to do to progress through the tiers because right now if you even have a handful of friends you can blast through them.

And this recent patch really over emphasized questing as the main method of progression since quests = easy looting, and easy looting = magazines. 

Frankly, I do not think the game needs the milestone rewards. 

Edited July 5, 2023 by saltychipmunk (see edit history)