Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[icehot]

31 minutes ago, Sephiroth87xz said:

 

This is the problem of the magazine system and the reason why isn't working good.

 

Slow the progression pace, but isn't in line with the progression pace of traders/quests/loot at least for weapons/tools, which is alot more quick.ì

 

So i totally useless compared to traders/quests/loot.

 

There is a unbalaced progression between two main systems of the game.

 

Maybe developers want players to relay more on loot/traders/quests instead crafting for weapons/tools?
 

But then i not understand why add magazines for unlock weapons and tools for crafting when they are useless considered the different progression pace.

 

So is an error or developers intentionally want to have this unbalanced progression?

 

This doesn't make magazines bad, it just means the balance is slightly off, and maybe needs a bit of fine tuning, that's all.

[Sephiroth87xz]

25 minutes ago, icehot said:

 

This doesn't make magazines bad, it just means the balance is slightly off, and maybe needs a bit of fine tuning, that's all.

Sure i wasn't saying the system itself is bad.

 

The problem is the balance or of magazine or of traders/quests/loot.

 

This depend of what developers want to do.

 

Keep a balance progression between magazine and trader/loot/quests or make players prioritize trader/loot/quests for weapons/tools(maybe even armors).

 

Magazine seems to work good for everything isn't correlated to the quality grade.

 

 

[Brakiss]

1 hour ago, meilodasreh said:

….

Or make blocks with just a very few HP slowly degrade to 0 by themselves (like it is so much damaged and brittle that it slowly crumbles away totally).

This would spare the player the last hit, he can get over to the next block and just let the block crumble by itself.

…

Or just have the „overkill“ damage applied to the block underneath the one with just a few hitpoints left. So if only 5 points are left, but you deal 100 damage, the remaining 95 points (maybe minus some percentage which could be affected by tool tier and quality) would be subtracted from the next block you would hit

[Aldranon]

Well at least one thing that I thought was completely goofy has been partially resolved!

The 7D2D "Fungus Guy" (aka The Last of Us fungus) is now a scientific possibility!

I never thought I'd see that day where a fungus can infect a person internally.  (Look up Desert Fungus, it's a cleaver girl)

The even more strange thing is the fungus has spread to parts of the wheat belt area and isn't that the premise of the start of The Last of Us?  (Infecting the wheat?)

 

What a great yet a bit scary time to be alive!

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

My impressions for A21 so far (after three starts in RNG worlds, about 15hours in total, last game moved over to stable, day 19 now)

 

-Wow, the world looks absolutely awesome, much more vivid, so much love for detail, just great!

 

-magazine system is fine for me, and seems to work pretty good.

I like the slower progression pace, and there's always that "oh yeah just one more magazine and then I can finally..."

 

-Overlap of weapon/tool damage is still not good I think, especially between tiers (stone/iron/steel)

Now it happens a lot that your new tool, that you may have spent a good amount of resources on, proves to have just a higher impact on stamina use, but still requires the same amount of hits to destroy a block (because after the "last" hit it still has a very few HP left)

Maybe make mods more effective with higher "tier/grade" stuff, to compensate this a little?

 

Or make blocks with just a very few HP slowly degrade to 0 by themselves (like it is so much damaged and brittle that it slowly crumbles away totally).

This would spare the player the last hit, he can get over to the next block and just let the block crumble by itself.

And it would also add a task that the player has to look after the condition of his base more closely (and always have to have an amount of the necessary repair materials ready of course)

 

-new water system with no (empty) jars still does not feel right in my opinion. Too much of a counter-intuitive "workaround", just to address the "problem" that the devs don't like that the players have their storage boxes full of water, whilst totally neglecting common sense.

Yeah right now I live next to a little pond, but cannot collect water from it. So I'm having 6 dew collectors running right next to it, and these are generating glass jars around the collected fluid right out of nothing.

Increasing "cost" of pure water and the main "products" of it (increasing cooking time of water, require more bones to make glue, require more glue to make duct tape,...stuff like that) would have been a better choice if you ask me.

 

Or just the the player have all the amount of a material he wants, if he's willing to invest into it, would also be an option.

Now I bet the people who had their forges running with hundreds of empty glass jars, today they have a huge "farm" of dew collectors running.

Just different, not better I guess.

 

 

 

A possible solution to tool block damage would be to add a random value to every hit and an early visual indication like the block flashing when the next hit will remove it.

 

That would actually mean that the higher the damage of your tool is the chance for removing a block earlier would increase. The visual indication would allow you to stop hitting when it was only this block you wanted to remove. At the moment more damage means nothing if it doesn't result in less hits for a block to be removed, with the random damage modifier your chances of early removing a block would increase steadily with your damage.

 

(That you often don't want to hit the block behind that one is also the reason that moving excess damage to the next block would probably be an unpopular solution)

 

Example: If now you have a tool that does block damage 100, it would instead do random block damage 60 to 140 with every hit. That is a big enough range so that removing that block earlier (or later) has a good chance even though the average is unchanged.

 

[Uncle Al]

50 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

A possible solution to tool block damage would be to add a random value to every hit and an early visual indication like the block flashing when the next hit will remove it.

 

That would actually mean that the higher the damage of your tool is the chance for removing a block earlier would increase. The visual indication would allow you to stop hitting when it was only this block you wanted to remove. At the moment more damage means nothing if it doesn't result in less hits for a block to be removed, with the random damage modifier your chances of early removing a block would increase steadily with your damage.

 

(That you often don't want to hit the block behind that one is also the reason that moving excess damage to the next block would probably be an unpopular solution)

 

Example: If now you have a tool that does block damage 100, it would instead do random block damage 60 to 140 with every hit. That is a big enough range so that removing that block earlier (or later) has a good chance even though the average is unchanged.

 

Yeah I've always thought the only real solution to the extreme impact of damage breakpoints in tools (shovel is 100, 125, 200, 250 for example, no other numbers matter) is to randomise damage. That way every single point increase matters, as it will increase your overall speed of material removal when taken across multiple blocks.

[spacepiggio]

4 hours ago, icehot said:

 

Yeah I'm not sold on the water/dew thing either, any survivalist would have a water container... An obvious solution is to not allow water to stack more than 1 (water is heavy IRL), most other survival games you'd have 1 or 2 water containers in your inventory.  Or perhaps allow boiling the buckets of water (that way it's also a bit later game before you'd even get a bucket).

Yea...my only complaint too going for the realistic & keeping the game fun & limiting the inventory of unnecessary items like jars & cans.

It's a survival with not any survival items you would actually use in the real world yet keeping it fun & simple. Look at actual survival & adapt them with existing tools or mods.

I would like to have the backpack to have a mod for carrying a small amount of water like a hydration bag & maybe use the helmet mod to filter the water in the bag. I would like to see a canteen or cup to drink out of or a mess kit for eating & drinking maybe & to top it off we still want zip lines & a Katana from that antique store.

[icehot]

1 minute ago, spacepiggio said:

Yea...my only complaint too going for the realistic & keeping the game fun & limiting the inventory of unnecessary items like jars & cans.

It's a survival with not any survival items you would actually use in the real world yet keeping it fun & simple. Look at actual survival & adapt them with existing tools or mods.

I would like to have the backpack to have a mod for carrying a small amount of water like a hydration bag & maybe use the helmet mod to filter the water in the bag. I would like to see a canteen or cup to drink out of or a mess kit for eating & drinking maybe & to top it off we still want zip lines & a Katana from that antique store.

 

Yeah that was another thought actually, like 1 extra inventory slot just to hold a canteen for gathering water or something like that, but probably too far into development for that now.  Tbh I actually think the water balance is about right, it just seems odd from that realism perspective that a survivor wouldn't know how to get water, considering that's probably the first thing someone like that would learn.

[Riamus]

8 hours ago, Sephiroth87xz said:

It's some years i stopped checking this game, so i am not informed about the plans of the developers.

 

Actually playing the game, i not see reason to search magazines of the weapons i choiced or even tools, because traders, quests or even simple looting, provide me all i need and in better quality.

 

I can jump to iron in few days(i think was around 12/13 days) thanks to trader, at least for melee weapons and i see various quality 4/5 for tools, both in trader list and loot.

 

Even with the right perks is impossible to keep the same progression with crafting.

 

Is intentionally to have a so unbalanced progression between traders/quests/loot and crafting?

 

It's the game now more action rpg open world oriented and crafting for weapons/tools is become secondary?

 

 

Keep in mind that if you are not trying to get the magazines, that's a good reason why your crafting isn't keeping up with your looting/questing.  With normal (not rushed) looting with an eye for magazine locations, you should have iron before the end of week 1, which is faster than you said you were buying them.  It is definitely unbalanced, mainly because the balance changes depending on the number of players.  But if you do look for magazines, you'll craft stuff sooner usually.  The problem is that duct tape has been added in high quantities to most crafted items and because of that, it's not really worth the cost.  Far cheaper (or at least easier) to buy than to craft in most cases.

[Kalex]

16 hours ago, WarWren said:

Because why the hell do zombies exist at all - it's a game. Don't we want more zombies? Water purifiers are part of the whole racket of having a base. Those sorts of questions lead to more obvious questions like, why do hordes of zombies come every 7 days. The answer is still the same - because it's a game, a zombie game.

You're missing the point. if the sound of condensation dripping attracts them from blocks away then they should be having a freaking rave in the streets when it rains.

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Kalex said:

You're missing the point. if the sound of condensation dripping attracts them from blocks away then they should be having a freaking rave in the streets when it rains.

 

You're missing the point. "Heat" is supposed to be a background effect that increases outside of the awareness of the player. By letting the dew collectors help build heat that is another dial the developers can utilize to adjust and balance the build-up of heat and the events that heat do and will trigger. Think of heat as a type of background timer rather than a feature like hunger or thirst that the player is supposed to be able to manage and maintain. The devs aren't making a statement that the condensation of water attracts zombies. If it really matters to you, then just think of it like the fact that dew collectors exist mean that player activity in the area checking them and gathering from them is what is generating the greater notice of zombies in the area.

 

Most players who do not follow the development don't really understand how heat is calculated and accumulated. There is no visible meter to show heat and all in-game descriptions are just vague warnings that a lot of activity in the area will generate some unspecified amount of heat. If it wasn't announced in the patch notes that dew collectors generate heat you would never know. You would just notice screamers showing up periodically just like always. That is the intention for heat accumulation-- to trigger events at random times.

 

I hope I'm not ruining driving for you if you didn't know this but....When you drive and especially when you press the shift button to increase your top speed it drains your hunger bar at a greater rate. Same type of thing.

[Old Crow]

1 minute ago, Roland said:

 

I hope I'm not ruining driving for you if you didn't know this but....When you drive and especially when you press the shift button to increase your top speed it drains your hunger bar at a greater rate. Same type of thing.

 

Please tell me that's a joke. I thought the silent, non-mechanical dew collector creating heat was dumb, but making a car go fast shouldn't make you hungrier.

[hiemfire]

3 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

 

Please tell me that's a joke. I thought the silent, non-mechanical dew collector creating heat was dumb, but making a car go fast shouldn't make you hungrier.

It does.

[Old Crow]

4 hours ago, hiemfire said:

It does.

 

That is quite possibly the dumbest idea I've ever heard of. It's early in my day though, so I might hear something dumber.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Old Crow (see edit history)

[Roland]

1 minute ago, Old Crow said:

 

Please tell me that's a joke. I thought the silent, non-mechanical dew collector creating heat was dumb, but making a car go fast shouldn't make you hungrier.

 

I want to say that it's been that way since Alpha 19. But see? You didn't know and so it didn't matter. Its not supposed to be an attempt to mirror reality-- although at the time there were plenty of people making a case for how driving in rough conditions does work out your core quite a bit which would burn lots of calories and result in greater hunger. But regardless, the real reason was to add a much-needed food sink when it was noticed that once vehicles were built and people weren't running any longer people weren't getting hungry like they were. 

 

The fact that you've been playing with this mechanic for the past two years and never knew is exactly how it and heat should be. They are just background processes and it doesn't really matter what they are tied to in order to make them keep generating.

[Roland]

5 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

 

That is quite possibly the dumbest idea I've ever heard of. It's early in my day though, so I mighty hear something dumber.

 

In any other game where the devs keep the files obfuscated you would never know about these types of things. When programmers want timers and processes to generate in the background they don't and shouldn't have to consider immersion. All they need are things in the game to hook to in order to get the results they want. Due to the intention of the devs that this game will be highly moddable the files are open to all who want to look and see. So since the developers want to keep hunger maintenance a relevant feature even after vehicles are obtained they chose to tie the hunger process to driving. Nobody is trying to make a statement that cars burn calories and gas. They announce the hooks because if they don't then the modders will anyway when they notice. Those who know either shrug and try not to think about it or they get upset because they want everything to make sense vs the real world. Those who don't know and aren't told will likely never find out and are the luckiest of all. All they know is that even in the late game they still get hungry and need to eat a plate of spaghetti and drink a smoothie.

 

[Jost Amman]

12 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

 

That is quite possibly the dumbest idea I've ever heard of. It's early in my day though, so I mighty hear something dumber.

Getting upset about features makes you hungry, for example... now, to the kitchen!  

[Roland]

7 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Getting upset about features makes you hungry, for example... now, to the kitchen!  

 

You might be walking into an inevitable reply with that one Jost... lol

[faatal]

3 hours ago, Kalex said:

You're missing the point. if the sound of condensation dripping attracts them from blocks away then they should be having a freaking rave in the streets when it rains.

It is not sound. My own personal theory, since this is not real, is your scent from touching the parts combined with vibrations, makes them interested. I could say the same for the cement mixer. Your feet tapping the ground as you walk around could really do it too. Next up...sand worms.

[Kazgrel]

18 minutes ago, faatal said:

It is not sound. My own personal theory, since this is not real, is your scent from touching the parts combined with vibrations, makes them interested. I could say the same for the cement mixer. Your feet tapping the ground as you walk around could really do it too. Next up...sand worms.

Oh no, not the zombie graboids!

[seven]

Has the timer for zombie respawns changed in A21?

 

My understanding has been that POI sleepers respawn based on the Loot Respawn setting, but if loot respawn is disabled then zombies respawn in 7 days. I believe this was mentioned in a post by one of the devs. The default options for loot respawn aren't long enough for me so I mod to add a 300 day option. In A20 this seemed to work fine, I never had sleepers come back. In A21 I have noticed in some buildings that sleepers will respawn, but the loot hasn't. Is this a bug or a change?

[Laran Mithras]

Noting through several map starts solo and with friends... that crafting progression is being outpaced by the progression in gamestage mobs.

So, IOW, T1-2 weapons vs T4 mobs.

 

Some difficulty there before a bit of catchup. This is with loot at 100%. With loot at 300%, we noted a small window of T1-2 weapons vs T4 mobs. Clubs versus irradiateds... whew doggie. Ferals were bad enough.

 

Just observing. Choices could be to lower the difficulty. Increase loot to 500%. Or avoid missions until gear catch-up. Harder game now. Still playable.

[Old Crow]

4 hours ago, Roland said:

 

I want to say that it's been that way since Alpha 19. But see? You didn't know and so it didn't matter. Its not supposed to be an attempt to mirror reality-- although at the time there were plenty of people making a case for how driving in rough conditions does work out your core quite a bit which would burn lots of calories and result in greater hunger. But regardless, the real reason was to add a much-needed food sink when it was noticed that once vehicles were built and people weren't running any longer people weren't getting hungry like they were. 

 

The fact that you've been playing with this mechanic for the past two years and never knew is exactly how it and heat should be. They are just background processes and it doesn't really matter what they are tied to in order to make them keep generating.

 

It's not even a matter of whether or not it mirrors reality. A "much-needed food sink?" Really? As if we don't already burn through it exploring, looting, questing, mining/harvesting, fighting zombies and animals, and just moving around.

 

That reasoning is an nonsensical as the "We want players to engage with zombies" explanation I got the other day regarding dew collectors generating heat activity. WE ALREADY ENGAGE WITH ZOMBIES. A LOT.

[Roland]

20 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

 

It's not even a matter of whether or not it mirrors reality. A "much-needed food sink?" Really? As if we don't already burn through it exploring, looting, questing, mining/harvesting, fighting zombies and animals, and just moving around.

 

lol...You're acting like they just added this mechanic to the current build. This has been in the game for literally years now and the only difference is that you're just finding out about it. The important thing is that your character gets hungry as time goes on and you can eat to rectify that. By the time players have vehicles they usually have enough food production going to not have to worry about whether they are lead-footing the accelerator.

[Old Crow]

1 minute ago, Roland said:

 

lol...You're acting like they just added this mechanic to the current build. This has been in the game for literally years now and the only difference is that you're just finding out about it. The important thing is that your character gets hungry as time goes on and you can eat to rectify that. By the time players have vehicles they usually have enough food production going to not have to worry about whether they are lead-footing the accelerator.

 

There was no reason to add it in the first place though, that's my point.