Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[4sheetzngeegles]

I have a question regarding the destructable doors.

 

If the doors have the playthrough collider holes, is it possible to
extrude the flat shape and apply the destruction to blocks? a door is basically

a block with very low depth.

 

What i mean is the door has two basic use faces, Houdini was used to
create the low poly render for destruction. Conceptually can that same
procedure be applied to the building blocks, for say a base. Presently
there is the crack overlay that is used, but the block stays solid until
its destroyed.

 

The crack render has 10 cells, can this be applied to a glass door texture,
then extruded to become a block template.  If so that would be trippy being
able to see and fight through these blocks during an attack. Two other results
are immersion during game play, and give a real feel for the integrity of all
damaged blocks visually.

 

If reversed "meaning during building" it would be like actual resource building.

Out of the box thought, a player builds from wood to 80% the applies metal overlay.
It would still be and look damaged but have additional strength.

 

Just curious

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

2 hours ago, madmole said:

We can ALWAYS add more zombies. Adding more zombies doesn't put a check mark on the many empty checkboxes we have on the gold list.

Most of the new outfits look the same on each sex.

 

I will make an exception to my own rule since you made an appearance, Madmole.

 

I fully respect prioritising other checkmarks but this clone army is something that has put me and my friends off the game.

 

On the point that 'can' and 'will' aren't the same thing, can I get a straight, non-politician answer out of you?

 

Do you and the team actually plan on adding new zombies to the game henceforth - with or without different abilities, or not?

[HB_H4wk]

1 hour ago, Blur99 said:

I'm so glad to see more hedges coming soon.  I would love to see stackable/growing vines.  I'm thinking Pripyat post Chernobyl nuclear accident.  Let nature reclaim the abandoned buildings and allow us to camouflage our bases.

Yes Like what I've been working on. Can't wait to see everything that can change the look to after an apocalypse.

[Kazgrel]

Sure, the variety of zeds (or lack thereof) is annoying.  But getting updated player models along with bandits (which will go some way to adding to enemy variety) is (IMO) more important at this point.  How long has the current player model been in use?  I've only played since A17 and it's been the same since then at least.  Seems TFP agree on that since that seems to be projects consuming their character art folk's time based on last night's dev stream.

 

Would love to one day see additional zeds and/or some variety to the current ones as mentioned over the last page or two.  Worst case I can look into what modders have provided.

[Maxley]

29 minutes ago, HB_H4wk said:

Yes Like what I've been working on. Can't wait to see everything that can change the look to after an apocalypse.

 I like the overgrown look. I don’t know how long after the apocalypse 7dtd takes place but I’d imagine after 10 years it would look somewhat like what you have made. Would be cool to see this in the base game

[Matt115]

19 minutes ago, Kazgrel said:

Sure, the variety of zeds (or lack thereof) is annoying.  But getting updated player models along with bandits (which will go some way to adding to enemy variety) is (IMO) more important at this point.  How long has the current player model been in use?  I've only played since A17 and it's been the same since then at least.  Seems TFP agree on that since that seems to be projects consuming their character art folk's time based on last night's dev stream.

 

Would love to one day see additional zeds and/or some variety to the current ones as mentioned over the last page or two.  Worst case I can look into what modders have provided.

Well - you see much often zombies that players models (except situation like  -  you play with many people +- 16 on server)

Edited April 20, 2023 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Kazgrel]

9 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Well - you see much often zombies that players models (except situation like  -  you play with many people +- 16 on server)

Most of my playtime on this game is multiplayer, hence why my opinion on the matter will seem skewed.  But the quality of the zed models smokes the player models in comparison.  Not to where the game's literally unplayable, of course.

 

Additional zed models/variety would seem to be a post launch thing they could add, since I dare think the art folks currently have their hands full.

[Pichun1]

 

I can't unsee it xD

[Khyron]

Is there a gallery showing off all the new art assets in 21? I fell asleep during the livestream and would like to see what I missed but quicker than it appeared during the stream.

[madmole]

4 hours ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

 

I will make an exception to my own rule since you made an appearance, Madmole.

 

I fully respect prioritising other checkmarks but this clone army is something that has put me and my friends off the game.

 

On the point that 'can' and 'will' aren't the same thing, can I get a straight, non-politician answer out of you?

 

Do you and the team actually plan on adding new zombies to the game henceforth - with or without different abilities, or not?

After how many hours has the clone army put you and your friends off? Hundreds or even thousands? Our job isn't to infinitely entertain old customers, it's to make a great game. By the time the zombies get old you would have to have a ton of hours. Minecraft has one zombie, a skeleton and a creeper, spider a blob and a few dozen other rare spawn enemies and made billions, it hasn't hurt their sales to have just one zombie skin.

I don't think there are any plans for any new zombies, but I have designs for them. There's tons of bandits coming, that will freshen up the encounters plenty. I have been asking for mud covered rotting skeleton type zombies like the later seasons of the walking dead for a while now, but again, we have enough to go gold with. We can always add more post gold or for DLCs and stuff.

3 hours ago, Maxley said:

 I like the overgrown look. I don’t know how long after the apocalypse 7dtd takes place but I’d imagine after 10 years it would look somewhat like what you have made. Would be cool to see this in the base game

We made a conscious decision 10 years ago not to do this because A, it would have been hard to look good with Voxels, and B, the game is set in Arizona and moss/overgrowth like that just doesn't grow like that in the desert. We love the look too but would better work in a DLC or sequel set in a new location.

[Beelzebubs Ghost]

43 minutes ago, madmole said:

After how many hours has the clone army put you and your friends off? Hundreds or even thousands? Our job isn't to infinitely entertain old customers, it's to make a great game. By the time the zombies get old you would have to have a ton of hours. Minecraft has one zombie, a skeleton and a creeper, spider a blob and a few dozen other rare spawn enemies and made billions, it hasn't hurt their sales to have just one zombie skin.

I don't think there are any plans for any new zombies, but I have designs for them. There's tons of bandits coming, that will freshen up the encounters plenty. I have been asking for mud covered rotting skeleton type zombies like the later seasons of the walking dead for a while now, but again, we have enough to go gold with. We can always add more post gold or for DLCs and stuff.

We made a conscious decision 10 years ago not to do this because A, it would have been hard to look good with Voxels, and B, the game is set in Arizona and moss/overgrowth like that just doesn't grow like that in the desert. We love the look too but would better work in a DLC or sequel set in a new location.

 

That's a very long no, but we got there eventually.

 

Thank you for the reply at least, I genuinely appreciate that.

[Riamus]

2 hours ago, madmole said:

After how many hours has the clone army put you and your friends off? Hundreds or even thousands? Our job isn't to infinitely entertain old customers, it's to make a great game. By the time the zombies get old you would have to have a ton of hours. Minecraft has one zombie, a skeleton and a creeper, spider a blob and a few dozen other rare spawn enemies and made billions, it hasn't hurt their sales to have just one zombie skin.

I don't think there are any plans for any new zombies, but I have designs for them. There's tons of bandits coming, that will freshen up the encounters plenty. I have been asking for mud covered rotting skeleton type zombies like the later seasons of the walking dead for a while now, but again, we have enough to go gold with. We can always add more post gold or for DLCs and stuff.

We made a conscious decision 10 years ago not to do this because A, it would have been hard to look good with Voxels, and B, the game is set in Arizona and moss/overgrowth like that just doesn't grow like that in the desert. We love the look too but would better work in a DLC or sequel set in a new location.

For me, more new zombies aren't really something I care about.  I wouldn't mind them, but they aren't a big deal.  What I think would be better by far is just having multiple skins for each zombie (not just the different difficulty levels that we have right now) so they at least look different.  Even if you were to add only 3 skins per zombie (skins being either different clothing or different colors for the same clothing or different hair styles or skin tones or genders, etc.), that triples the variety you see in the game.  I think if it is possible to make use of the updates to clothing for bandits and players to work with zombies, you could really make a large impact on the variety people are craving.  Even just different colors of the same clothing if you want to avoid making new outfits would go a long way.  I know it's not trivial, but I think it would be possible even at this late stage of development.  Just a thought.

 

I loved the dev streams.  The new art is amazing!    I only have two issues with what I saw (sorry!!).  One is that the new UI for the health, stamina, etc. bars feel way to cartoony and bright for this game.  I would love the option to use the current versions of all that (not the entire UI, just that stat bars section) without needing a mod to do it but I understand if that's not possible.  The second is that although the danger meter when shown on the top right is okay (I don't really think it's needed but it is fine there), when it shows up very large in the middle of the screen it looks horrible.  Consider what it will be like if you drive cross country over the backyards of many POI rather than down the road.  Try it out and I think you'll see the issue.  It will keep popping up over and over and taking up way too much screen real estate.  If only in the top right with that smaller view, it isn't so in your face.  I hope there's an option to either entirely disable the danger meter or limit it to only the top right.  I know mods will come out for it right away but I prefer not using mods.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Crypted]

I think after the character model overhaul, bandits, story, factions, weather and armor are done then new zombies should get added in because Joel Huenink aka Madmole did say (but I have designs for them) so doesn't that mean some new zombies are already made but just need more work before they add those zombies in the game, if so then I don't see why they wouldn't add any more zombies because the designs are there. I hope new zombies get added into the game but after the other things TFP are working on. In my opinion different clothing on the same zombie won't do anything because it's still the same zombie your killing, but again in my opinion. 

[Crypted]

27 minutes ago, Riamus said:

I only have two issues with what I saw (sorry!!). One is that the new UI for the health, stamina, etc. bars feel way to cartoony and bright for this game.  I would love the option to use the current versions of all that (not the entire UI, just that stat bars section) without needing a mod to do it but I understand if that's not possible. 

I think the new UI concepts doesn't really match the game, but they did say that there basically making adjustments and they wanted it to be grid based, so who knows maybe it will be something completely different. 

[Riamus]

30 minutes ago, Crypted said:

In my opinion different clothing on the same zombie won't do anything because it's still the same zombie your killing, but again in my opinion. 

If I'm walking down the street and I see everyone wearing the same half dozen or so outfits, it would look very weird to me.  Put them in multiple different outfits and they will start to look normal.  If they add more zombies, they need to balance them and make them unique.  Adding new zombies but having them act like existing zombies doesn't provide any benefit other than a different look and you can only make a very limited number of those that way.  I would rather see a horde coming at me where exact duplicates are uncommon than to have a few more types of zombies that will still look repetitive as you'll have only a few new ones compared to the possibility of hundreds of different looks if you used skins on existing zombies.  I'm not saying they can't also add new zombies, but you just won't get much variety by doing it only that way.  With skins, your hordes can look far more varied and less repetitive.  Your quest zombies will feel less identical and more like they were real people turned into zombies instead of a half dozen people turned into thousands of clones who were then turned into zombies.  Ideally, you'd have different clothing that is similar enough in style so you can still identify what zombie you're fighting for strategy purposes, but still different so they seem like people in just their regular clothing.  But the easier option is just to tint the existing clothing with different colors so they at least look different enough to not feel as repetitive.

 

For the amount of effort spent, you can get far more out of using skins than making additional unique zombies.  Even if they added 10 more unique zombies, it will still feel repetitive because you still don't have that many and when you have a bunch coming after you, there will be all kinds of duplication.  If they added multiple skins to each zombie, then you can quickly end up in the hundreds of possible looks with far less work.  If they could get a bit more modular and have a few hair styles, a few skin tones, a few colors of clothes and perhaps even a few clothing styles for each zombie, then you would have so much variety that you would hardly see exact duplicates.  You just can't get that from only adding more zombies.

24 minutes ago, Crypted said:

I think the new UI concepts doesn't really match the game, but they did say that there basically making adjustments and they wanted it to be grid based, so who knows maybe it will be something completely different. 

I'm fine with a grid UI.  Those work very well (at least if they are well-designed).  I just hope the style can be adjusted or easily changed, preferably without needing a mod.  The style feels more sci-fi or at least crisply modern than what you'd expect for a post-apocalyptic world.  The interface should have a DIY, dingy/rusty, Mad Max type feel to it, imo.  That UI (mainly the stat bars, but much of it is also too clean and modern for this game) is just not a good fit for this game.  Please consider changing the style to match the game rather than putting some "pretty" and modern looking UI on the game.  The UI should fit the game.  A modern and clean UI like that is fine for other games, but really looks off in this one.  You can still have the grid and have a look that fits the game as well.

[Crypted]

1 hour ago, Riamus said:

If I'm walking down the street and I see everyone wearing the same half dozen or so outfits, it would look very weird to me.  Put them in multiple different outfits and they will start to look normal.  If they add more zombies, they need to balance them and make them unique.  Adding new zombies but having them act like existing zombies doesn't provide any benefit other than a different look and you can only make a very limited number of those that way.  I would rather see a horde coming at me where exact duplicates are uncommon than to have a few more types of zombies that will still look repetitive as you'll have only a few new ones compared to the possibility of hundreds of different looks if you used skins on existing zombies.  I'm not saying they can't also add new zombies, but you just won't get much variety by doing it only that way.  With skins, your hordes can look far more varied and less repetitive.  Your quest zombies will feel less identical and more like they were real people turned into zombies instead of a half dozen people turned into thousands of clones who were then turned into zombies.  Ideally, you'd have different clothing that is similar enough in style so you can still identify what zombie you're fighting for strategy purposes, but still different so they seem like people in just their regular clothing.  But the easier option is just to tint the existing clothing with different colors so they at least look different enough to not feel as repetitive. For the amount of effort spent, you can get far more out of using skins than making additional unique zombies.  Even if they added 10 more unique zombies, it will still feel repetitive because you still don't have that many and when you have a bunch coming after you, there will be all kinds of duplication.  If they added multiple skins to each zombie, then you can quickly end up in the hundreds of possible looks with far less work.  If they could get a bit more modular and have a few hair styles, a few skin tones, a few colors of clothes and perhaps even a few clothing styles for each zombie, then you would have so much variety that you would hardly see exact duplicates.  You just can't get that from only adding more zombies.

 

 

I'm fine with a grid UI.  Those work very well (at least if they are well-designed).  I just hope the style can be adjusted or easily changed, preferably without needing a mod.  The style feels more sci-fi or at least crisply modern than what you'd expect for a post-apocalyptic world.  The interface should have a DIY, dingy/rusty, Mad Max type feel to it, imo.  That UI (mainly the stat bars, but much of it is also too clean and modern for this game) is just not a good fit for this game.  Please consider changing the style to match the game rather than putting some "pretty" and modern looking UI on the game.  The UI should fit the game.  A modern and clean UI like that is fine for other games, but really looks off in this one.  You can still have the grid and have a look that fits the game as well.

I mean deep down I'm fine with the zombie skins, different clothing, hairstyles and different skin tones for the zombies, I was only saying just add new zombies because I just don't feel like it will be done right. If this is done right to where the zombie skins all look completely different then I'm all for it. Also Madmole said (but I had designs for them) so does this mean new zombies are almost done but just need more work before they get added in or something else. 

 

 

I'm fine with the grid-based UI as long as it matches/fits the game with zombies (post-apocalyptic world). I was thinking of a blood related UI design because of the 7DTD logo but that's just an idea not that I would want it to happen. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Crypted (see edit history)

[Zombiepoptard]

Why the long face?

[Crypted]

13 minutes ago, Zombiepoptard said:

Why the long face?

 

I really like the outfit but I think it suits a hiking outfit rather than a desert gear outfit as they call it. A different outfit should be made for the desert gear outfit. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Crypted (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

45 minutes ago, Crypted said:

I really like the outfit but I think it suits a hiking outfit rather than a desert gear outfit as they call it. A different outfit should be made for the desert gear outfit. 

This was an actual AfrikaCorps outfit (Germany):

Spoiler

 

[RipClaw]

3 hours ago, Crypted said:

I'm fine with the grid-based UI as long as it matches/fits the game with zombies (post-apocalyptic world). I was thinking of a blood related UI design because of the 7DTD logo but that's just an idea not that I would want it to happen. 

I actually like the UI concept. Reminds me of the Undead Legacy UI. But that's just me.

 

No matter what the final UI looks like, I think the two most important points are customizability to serve both the minimalists and players who want a lot of information displayed, and good readability.

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, Crypted said:

I mean deep down I'm fine with the zombie skins, different clothing, hairstyles and different skin tones for the zombies, I was only saying just add new zombies because I just don't feel like it will be done right. If this is done right to where the zombie skins all look completely different then I'm all for it. Also Madmole said (but I had designs for them) so does this mean new zombies are almost done but just need more work before they get added in or something else.

 

That is a design for example:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strichmännchen#/media/Datei:Simple_Stick_Figure.svg
 

Now I'm sure Madmole went more specific with his designs, but the thing is he can be as specific or non-specific as he wants and just leave the rest to his designers. Which practically means any new zombie is "just more work" away.

 

 

[meganoth]

5 hours ago, Riamus said:

If I'm walking down the street and I see everyone wearing the same half dozen or so outfits, it would look very weird to me.  Put them in multiple different outfits and they will start to look normal.  If they add more zombies, they need to balance them and make them unique.  Adding new zombies but having them act like existing zombies doesn't provide any benefit other than a different look and you can only make a very limited number of those that way.  I would rather see a horde coming at me where exact duplicates are uncommon than to have a few more types of zombies that will still look repetitive as you'll have only a few new ones compared to the possibility of hundreds of different looks if you used skins on existing zombies.  I'm not saying they can't also add new zombies, but you just won't get much variety by doing it only that way.  With skins, your hordes can look far more varied and less repetitive.  Your quest zombies will feel less identical and more like they were real people turned into zombies instead of a half dozen people turned into thousands of clones who were then turned into zombies.  Ideally, you'd have different clothing that is similar enough in style so you can still identify what zombie you're fighting for strategy purposes, but still different so they seem like people in just their regular clothing.  But the easier option is just to tint the existing clothing with different colors so they at least look different enough to not feel as repetitive.

 

For the amount of effort spent, you can get far more out of using skins than making additional unique zombies.  Even if they added 10 more unique zombies, it will still feel repetitive because you still don't have that many and when you have a bunch coming after you, there will be all kinds of duplication.  If they added multiple skins to each zombie, then you can quickly end up in the hundreds of possible looks with far less work.  If they could get a bit more modular and have a few hair styles, a few skin tones, a few colors of clothes and perhaps even a few clothing styles for each zombie, then you would have so much variety that you would hardly see exact duplicates.  You just can't get that from only adding more zombies.

 

I don't think different skins (i.e. color of skin+color of clothes) makes entirely new zombies. Our brain works wonders in identifying similarities. In other words two identical Marlenes with diffferent outfits will still register as largely the same person. Also randomly mixing skin colors and clothes colors often produces combinations that look weird. Or at least very unfashionable 😉. My guess is that skin variation would work much better with nondescript featureless zombies than with the high quality recognizable zombies of this game. 

 

So in summary  I'd say without actually seeing that feature in the actual game we won't know what would be better, a few new zombies or a lot more skin variations.

 

[Guppycur]

You'd be wrong.  Seeing the same zombies with different skins definitely adds variation. And you stop seeing the glaring similarities.

 

Madmole's logic is also wrong.  Minecraft works because it's ONE zombie skin, which our brain begins to discard.  Seeing 15 zeds and 9 are alike is more distracting than seeing 15 of the same.

 

He is right that they have better things to do tho.

 

Having code change the tint of a shirt material on spawn also wouldn't add any real overhead btw.

 

Been there, done it, just saying. 

 

Fight me. 😉

[Pineapple Killer]

Clearly at the start of the apocalypse when someone was bitten, the virus made them first go to Savage Country and change into their outfit, then depending on what zombie had bitten them, over time they changed appearance to all look the same. Thats the reason why the dozen or so zombies have the same look and outfits. Its just common sense! Can we stop asking for more now. It would break my "immersion" of said reason. 

 

But seriously, I'm just happy the game is still getting great updates because with each alpha, it feels like a new game in a way. TFP have not just thought to put the game gold and start pushing DLC's on us, they continue to work on a game where most of us already own it and they won't make anymore money from us.

Be happy with what we get. 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Pineapple Killer (see edit history)

[Roland]

5 hours ago, Crypted said:

Also Madmole said (but I had designs for them) so does this mean new zombies are almost done but just need more work before they get added in or something else. 

It means he’s drawn some ideas on paper and has them in a binder. Rewatch the dev stream from this week and at the beginning there is a graphic that explains the process. Justin said that Madmole gives the artists a concept as a drawing and then they start modeling it and going through that whole flowchart. It’s a long flowchart. 
 

There are no zombie models that are practically done and just need to be added in. Nobody has been working on new zombies at all since they started working on bandits and player characters over a year ago.