(Rant) This game has never been as anti-multiplayer as it is now.

[Roland]

1 hour ago, RyanX said:

 

No, it didn't start out as a PvP discussion.  The OP clearly states that while he runs a PvP server, it affects PvE as well.  You will find that MORE people want larger population PvE servers than they do PvP servers anyway.  There used to be queus to get in the larger multiplayer servers but that's been worn away over the last couple of alphas.   And it doesn't have to be 50 people.  40 can be good.  Heck 30 can be good.

 

It's better for you to say this is about "PvP" and "50+" because it makes it easier for you to attack the validity of what's being said.  In reality this is about server stability for a reasonable number of players to have a community on the server.  That and us trying to see if we can get our message to the devs that this is something the community wants.  I would seriously doubt that any moderator would relay that information to them based on the clear bias towards the MP community, especially since the argument is being consistently interpreted as "we want a 100 person Fortnite clone".

 

You’re way off base. I had already directed the devs to your other thread asking for dev feedback since mere moderators weren’t enough before you typed this particular conspiracy theory….lol

 

Im not against 50+ servers or PvP. People should play the game as they like within the limitations it has. I have no problem with the devs “finding out” about your desires and feedback…lol

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, RyanX said:

 

No, it didn't start out as a PvP discussion.  The OP clearly states that while he runs a PvP server, it affects PvE as well.  You will find that MORE people want larger population PvE servers than they do PvP servers anyway.  There used to be queus to get in the larger multiplayer servers but that's been worn away over the last couple of alphas.   And it doesn't have to be 50 people.  40 can be good.  Heck 30 can be good.

 

It's better for you to say this is about "PvP" and "50+" because it makes it easier for you to attack the validity of what's being said.  In reality this is about server stability for a reasonable number of players to have a community on the server.  That and us trying to see if we can get our message to the devs that this is something the community wants.  I would seriously doubt that any moderator would relay that information to them based on the clear bias towards the MP community, especially since the argument is being consistently interpreted as "we want a 100 person Fortnite clone".

 

 

PvP was mentioned mulitiple times, it was part of an argument about balance of weapons, it follows it is part of the discussion and nobody can fault people arguing about it. Generally it is about large server populations, sure.

 

Furthermore I'd say most of the arguments here were not about PvP but about exceeding the 8 player limit, no matter if it is 20 or 50 or the 100 you now bring up. Will it be 200 next time?

 

 

 

 

[RyanX]

3 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

PvP was mentioned mulitiple times, it was part of an argument about balance of weapons, it follows it is part of the discussion and nobody can fault people arguing about it. Generally it is about large server populations, sure.

 

Furthermore I'd say most of the arguments here were not about PvP but about exceeding the 8 player limit, no matter if it is 20 or 50 or the 100 you now bring up. Will it be 200 next time?

 

 

 

 

 

Did you see where I said even 30 or 40 could be good?  Doesn't look like it.  The "100" was a nod to the continued escalation where in some posts PvP doesn't even get mentioned and gets conflated to thinking people want a "Battle Royale" or "Fortnite" experience.

Edited December 24, 2021 by RyanX (see edit history)

[Roland]

This is a self-described rant thread. Devs do much better with questions and detailed information including crash logs etc.  

 

If you were truly serious about this you would be going about it in that way instead of spending your time calling them either uninformed due to my supposed interference, incompetent, or dishonest. You’re taking every worst case scenario as the facts which is per normal for a rant piece but not particularly helpful or conducive to being taken seriously. 

[DiegoLBC1]

Electronic Arts: a big company, lots of financial resources. But NFS Heat (released 2019) only supports 16 players at a room.
 

A large millionaire company, with so much know-how, without a totally modifiable world (only races on prefab map). Shouldn't it be able to support more?

Why charge this in 7d2d on Alpha?

Edited December 24, 2021 by DiegoLBC1 (see edit history)

[JCrook1028]

2 hours ago, RyanX said:

  I would seriously doubt that any moderator would relay that information to them based on the clear bias towards the MP community,

and you would be absolutely wrong.

[Krougal]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

 mere moderators weren’t enough

But you're no mere moderator...you're SUPER MODERATOR!

 

 

1 hour ago, DiegoLBC1 said:

Electronic Arts: a big company, lots of financial resources. But NFS Heat (released 2019) only supports 16 players at a room.
 

A large millionaire company, with so much know-how, without a totally modifiable world (only races on prefab map). Shouldn't it be able to support more?

Why charge this in 7d2d on Alpha?

EA is trying to figure out ways to get you to hand them money without even making a playable game. I wish this were a joke or sarcasm even, but last year that actually came out of an executive meeting there.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Krougal (see edit history)

[Rhaikh]

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Oh wow, handwaving about solutions and saying they are minor effort. How about listing them so we can talk about facts instead of all that mud flinging

…

 

Did anyone make a bug report without talking about 20 person PvP servers?

 

 

I’m at a loss here because I don’t admin a large dedicated server.  Still, I know that there are many many things those admins must do to keep things running smoothly.  I could talk about them at length but I prefer the experts to do so instead.

 

I will provide an example though.  Almost every large server needs to run an auto reboot script, due to memory leaks I suppose.  Why is this a third party mod?

This is really the point.  It seems that nobody at TFP has gone to ask one of these experts what should be included by default for large servers, because even the most basic and requisite mods must be figured out by themselves

Edited December 24, 2021 by Rhaikh (see edit history)

[Boidster]

3 hours ago, RyanX said:

I would seriously doubt that any moderator would relay that information to them based on the clear bias towards the MP community

 

Wow, this did not age well. 

[Krougal]

34 minutes ago, Boidster said:

 

Wow, this did not age well. 

 

 

Oh, actually it was the other thread that some of my comments were directed at, I got my threads mixed up.

Anyway....

 

Is this still current? Planning on playing with some friends over the holidays.

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/7_Days_to_Die_Dedicated_Server

 

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Krougal (see edit history)

[RyanX]

42 minutes ago, Boidster said:

 

Wow, this did not age well. 

 

Either way, It's the first I've seen a response from anyone in charge despite multiple people and years of posting, and that's a win.

Edited December 24, 2021 by RyanX (see edit history)

[Laz Man]

On 12/22/2021 at 11:56 PM, pApA^LeGBa said:

I think that the part that TFP only supports MP up to 8 players should be made more accessible. Most people find out about that when they encounter problems with servers that have more players than that.

 

The new cities are kind of a slap in the face tbh. Yes, they look great, it feels super nice, looks way more realistic. And i love them.

 

But getting huge FPS drops on medium settings with a system that is way above the minimum requirements after beeing told over and over that we can´t have more zombies due to minimum requirements is quite the joke.

 

I understand your pain, however I don't think the number of active AI entities and POIs is a fair comparison.  Optimization in downtown areas is a work in progress.  There was a major FPS optimization during streamer weekend and on the level design side, we are also making additional lighter weight (Verts/Tris) POIs to help performance in that district.  I personally added a lighter remnant skyscraper for stable B238.

[giKoN]

3 hours ago, Rhaikh said:

I will provide an example though.  Almost every large server needs to run an auto reboot script, due to memory leaks I suppose.  Why is this a third party mod?

 

You’d be surprised. Why does alloc provide a dedicated server fix as third party mod since basically dedicated servers exist, if he’s part of the inner circle. 
i mean, why is that even necessary? Why is something that even TFP seems to consider crucial not just part of the dedicated server instance itself? 
Why is it even called „server fixes“? If it fixed something, why is it third party but from TFP? And why does it „fix“ the same things for years? 

Even if I run 8 player dedi I will need to download third party stuff to manage my server. 
 

And as I said before, the lack of love for dedi mode currently forces many Servers to actually abandon the official Pimps Gateway and instead rely on some Chinese stuff which is potentially harmful. 
But maybe that topic is rather something for Valve then for TFP to consider.

P.S.: Merry Christmas and lovely holidays! 

Edited December 24, 2021 by giKoN (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

@giKoN Every half decent server host company allows you to set automatic restarts of the server. You don´t need any tool for that.

 

And it´s generally a common thing to restart a server once every 24hours, not only in this game. There is a reason pretty much every server hosting company has that option and they didn´t put that in for 7 days to die specifically.

Edited December 25, 2021 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[SylenThunder]

4 hours ago, Krougal said:

Is this still current? Planning on playing with some friends over the holidays.

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/7_Days_to_Die_Dedicated_Server

It's mostly accurate. I've been making the minor edits where it is required, but I'm not happy with the current layout.  Have plans for a larger re-write, but don't have a lot of free time to work on it. It gives the absolute basics, but not a lot else.

 

If you have a spare PC you can load up Linux on, I have a guide for that here. It's easy to set up if you can read and understand English, and will be easier to automate with better performance results than a server on Windows.

 

2 hours ago, giKoN said:

Even if I run 8 player dedi I will need to download third party stuff to manage my server. 

Which is pretty normal for a dedicated game server that you intend to have open to the public.  And yes, that Chinese stuff is harmful. You only need it if you plan to greatly exceed what the game is actually designed for.  We host 20-slot servers without an issue using only the basic management mods.

7 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

And it´s generally a common thing to restart a server once every 24hours, not only in this game. There is a reason pretty much every server hosting company has that option and they didn´t put that in for 7 days to die specifically.

Absolutely correct. We do daily restarts for our servers that are Vanilla or only have a few mods. When we have a server with major overhauls then it's needed to be done more often. We restart those every 12 hours.

[Krougal]

Speaking of halfway decent server hosting. Does anyone have any suggestions?

I tried one and while I am not gonna name names, it was the cheapest option and well, you get what you pay for.

Their worldgen was FUBAR. I refunded.

[pApA^LeGBa]

I am pretty happy with G-portal for years now, never had more than 10 slots though, so if you want to run a big server i can´t tell you how they run on there. Heard only good things about bluefang also. Can´t really tell about others.

 

And yeah you usually get what you pay for, i had that with nitrado.

Edited December 25, 2021 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Rhaikh]

3 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@giKoN Every half decent server host company allows you to set automatic restarts of the server. You don´t need any tool for that.

 

And it´s generally a common thing to restart a server once every 24hours, not only in this game. There is a reason pretty much every server hosting company has that option and they didn´t put that in for 7 days to die specifically.

There are 7 days specific issues here, such as cleaning up spawned vehicles and restarts during horde night. I hesitated to even provide a specific example because I knew the focus would be on proving that specific example unnecessary somehow, rather than addressing the overall theme of lack of attention.

[SylenThunder]

2 minutes ago, Rhaikh said:

There are 7 days specific issues here, such as cleaning up spawned vehicles and restarts during horde night. I hesitated to even provide a specific example because I knew the focus would be on proving that specific example unnecessary somehow, rather than addressing the overall theme of lack of attention.

Every good manager has the shutdown command set to be bloodmoon aware. Cleaning up spawned vehicles is only an issue on servers that greatly exceed what the client is designed for.

[Rhaikh]

2 hours ago, SylenThunder said:

Every good manager has the shutdown command set to be bloodmoon aware. Cleaning up spawned vehicles is only an issue on servers that greatly exceed what the client is designed for.

I know some third party server managers let you inspect player’s inventory and even warn you or ban them if they have something restricted, like Dev Only armor.  This is useful sometimes when cheaters exploit the bugs with multiplayer and give themselves admin privileges.

 

Or, if the admin accidentally puts that item in their base, next to a bedroll whose location was broadcasted to everyone due to the bug referenced earlier, and a regular player raids the base and puts it on.

 

Of course, you’d have to have deep knowledge of running servers and research all the third party mod options, validate they are OK from a security standpoint, and whatnot.

 

I don’t know of any server managers that help with finding the second set of dev armor that I hid somewhere on the map, though.

 

Would be great if that existed and had official support.

[RyanX]

10 hours ago, SylenThunder said:

Every good manager has the shutdown command set to be bloodmoon aware. Cleaning up spawned vehicles is only an issue on servers that greatly exceed what the client is designed for.

You kind of proved his point here with your response.  You replied to his specific issues when his point was that it's a "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts".  It's not the importance of each specific issue that needs to be fixed, it's the general inattentiveness that has led to junk being piled up over time.

[Tom Peters]

It pains me to see so many good admins getting burned out trying to run a PvP server.  If I understand the current issues (as of 12/30), it doesnt matter if it's 8 or 50 people on the server, or even PvE vs PvP, all are subject to bad actors doing malicious things (such as at NaPvP).  This game is so much more fun and challenging on multiplayer.

 

I have been playing since A7 or so.  I have seen the game getting a lot more polished over time and I am not worried about some of the issues other have mentioned.  The game will get prettier.  The game will have better map generation.  Building recipes will get balanced.  These are all evolutions of the game.  The problem I see are elements such as multiplayer, the limit to the # of zombies, the network traffic, hacker prevention, and other elements that are probably tied to the underlying game engine.  I would love to see a video Q/A session like they have been doing, but with an eye towards the game engine capabilities and issues.

 

Mad Dog

[Grandpa Minion]

confirmed! new Eos_hack is out!!! NAPVP GOT HIT WITH IT LAST NIGHT AND IM SURE MORE SERVERS GOING GET HIT TODAY!!!!

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by SylenThunder
Removed image with offensive words. (see edit history)

[zuggy81chllycheats]

plz help grampa minion ive gone crazy like 1203498 times and took it out on him cause multplayer is such of mess and he lets all the cyber criminals play on his server

 

i really love grampa im sick of theese people taking advantage of him

Edited December 30, 2021 by zuggy81chllycheats (see edit history)

[Weazelsun]

My question is what we expect of the The Fun Pimps in regard to supporting "big" servers (8+ players). I've seen suggestions in regard to better logging and additional specific admin-use commands. But, other than that in general the baseline is there already.