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Howlune

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  1. Perhaps I'm just jaded and see everything as a competition now. Apologies. Maybe the game isn't for me anymore.
  2. A20 has changed a lot for the better, but things I'm noticing now more than ever is the constant streamlining of game play. It used to be that you had 600 tier levels, found different quality parts for guns, and getting good equipment (mainly guns) was a solid time investment. You were always hunting for better parts, slightly higher tiers. POIS had no "main loot" that you could just skip to... sure, some had some big boxes hidden away, but there were still major reasons to keep looting as everything had value. They werent just dungeons that any seasoned player knows to just bust a wall down and skip. Now you can immediately rush wasteland and get the absurdly high lootstage bonus from it. Suddenly its raining tier 6 equipment. Complete a quest tier and get a full set of T6 steel or 500... yes... FIVE HUNDRED concrete or steel blocks... what???? There's such little reason to even craft anymore. Guns are everywhere. Pipe guns are made from spit, including an entire machine gun. What happened....? It's my pimp dream that some of these absurd changes are reverted so people can actually feel like they're working to the top again. The game is so... skippable now. Or better yet, bring some form of tier expansion back, or let us make it ourselves?
  3. It honestly feels like something that was added cause you could, not because you should. There is no reason not to rush wasteland and get T6 every other loot container before you even hit level 70. Theres barely a reason to craft anything now because of this. High rarity in loot makes it more meaningful and rewarding when found, and this is completely antithetical to that and makes gameplay feel rushed and boring now. Please reconsider/retune this mechanic... don't leave it to modders to make the game more fun. Also on another note with loot rarity/crafting, why are there quest rewards that give 500 steel/concrete blocks? What the hell? That's completely bonkers.
  4. People like big servers. This was tonight, probably more friday night. It's not something that should be slept on.
  5. Well, this thread has gone south. Honestly, mods should go ahead and lock this thread now. I only ever intended it to highlight the issues a20 brings and how we're hoping for more support of larger population multiplayer, that is all. I hope the conversation continues in the other thread that RyanX made and madmole replied to, but regardless, nothing of great value will be accomplished if its just constant lashing out at each other and only serves to deface what we're asking for.
  6. We are giving our examples of situations we find most enjoyable about this game, we are not saying the game has to be a certain way. Were just asking for better support of how we enjoy it at no detriment to the rest of the player base. If anything, improvements to things like the netcode benefit everyone.
  7. I SINCERELY appreciate you mentioning this and asking. My personal experience is with PVP servers, less so much PVE, but I have a good Idea of what they try to accomplish too. I'll put this all in two sections, one on what players look for in larger servers, and another for the issues they are facing. For PVE i believe people use these to work with greater populations for horde and non-horde base building, possibly even city building. Essentially taking the base game's ideas and bumping up the scale much more, and feeling as a part of a community rather than a smaller group of friends. Meet new people, show your creativity to whoever passes by, etc. These servers tend to be modded to add more difficulty or custom zombies and such. I do not know what the performance looks like on your average PVE server, but I often see them with nearly 50-60 players sometimes in the server browser which is surprising. For PVP, it is an entirely different animal. Probably the strongest, most unique and fun aspect of 7 Days to Die is base building. The amount of freedom this game allows in that regard is almost infinite, but on PVE servers and games this is usually used towards either aesthetic or horde defense purposes. As the store page of the game mentions; "Work together cooperatively to build settlements or work against each other raiding other player’s bases". Raiding/Defending a base against players is sublime and no other game gives the same experience. AI, as great and as far as it has come, can still be outsmarted pretty easily by players if they know enough about what they're doing. Players on the other hand can be a massive, unpredictable spectrum that always keeps you thinking and on your feet. But why is such a large server needed for these experiences? Small scale, let's say, 8 player PVP is more consensual than anything. It roots out a lot if not all of the danger, mystery, and the will to rise to the top of the food chain. On larger servers, you have a mix of solo, duo and larger team players who often have no acquaintance with each-other... and therefore compete with each other to get ahead naturally. You have no idea how your rivals could operate, you have no idea where they could be, you have no idea what kind of gear they have. These kinds of scenarios bump up the survival aspect one-hundred fold, and make you feel like your in a dangerous wasteland more than any other way the game is played. The game's strongest aspect, base building, challenges every bit of your creativity as you continuously evolve your designs to fend off any players who may be trying to either get your loot or wipe you off the map. Bases become purely utilitarian, and it becomes a skill of making a functional base instead of a formal one like in PVE. It's not just the strongest who survive, but the most clever, as opposed to other games where brute force solves everything. Finally, the gunplay. While it can seem shoddy at times, and the base game's values are extremely imbalanced as they are tuned for fighting zombies, these are easy things to fix with mods and nearly every large pvp server has been doing it for years. Now more than ever, you have a pretty wide array of weapons to choose from to fit your play-style, and you're constantly adjusting mods and adapting with time to get more skillful in fights. When balanced, the game becomes a great mix of offense and defense, where players can take roles of fighters, builders or both... there is always a niche to fill. Honestly PVP can really just be summed up as the more competitive side of the game by far, and bigger populations are needed to keep it truly competitive. Now, for the problems these servers face. I'd say first and foremost is the Net Code. It doesn't take many players on a server before strange things start to happen, one of the biggest being other players appearing as if they were "teleporting" when they are moving normally. They would be running in place for a moment, then teleport 30m ahead in the direction they faced. If they jumped, they would often look like they were flying despite not. This also leads to showing players in places they aren't actually in. An example would be a player spotting another outside of a building, while on the other screen, they're already inside the building. While i can see it being manageable in PVE, its horrendous for PVP. Many players accuse others of hacking simply cause of this alone. The reason why the netcode behaves this way is likely due to how much information is fed to every client, but giKoN said it best: "Block Changes are sent out to every player on the server such that the world is up to date for all clients playing. So if player A places a block at +4000 +4000, player B at -4000 -4000 will know. One of the parts where I wanted some change, as the netcode is also so poorly done because there's a lot of redundant and a lot of unneeded information exchanged between all players". When you have upwards of 30 or so people all playing, the entire gamespace and the information in it is being shared and updated to all 30 clients whether they are in render distance of things happening or not. This was not always the case, as we were able to get a somewhat steady 50 players on a server up till early A19. There is a couple modders that have made a way to bypass the base game's netcode, and uses a server kit that allows even up to 80 players on a server without major performance drops... but its sketchy, if not illegal, as it reroutes client data through an insecure network. The next issue might be the client and server relationship. I'm not hugely experienced with networking, but my best explanation would be that the game is extremely client-side biased and gives very little if any power to servers. This causes a lot of security holes where hackers do not need much to be able to run creative or debug mode on a public server. There are many mods that help fight this as a last line of defense, but you can still execute many console commands in the main menu, then join a server that has them disabled, and they will still work. A lighter example would be completely disabling fog through the console to give yourself a massive advantage in PVP. However, debug mode and creative mode threaten all servers no matter the mode intended. Finally, while I don't consider this as pressing of an issue, is "Xray". It's the practice of being able to clip your camera into the terrain such that you can see and shoot through it. It's something that's been in the game since the start, and there's countless ways on how to do it. Ride a bike into a 1x2 hole and move your camera around. Stand on a hatch in a 1x2 tunnel and open it, and it forces your head into the ground above. Many modders have been able to combat this using things like blackscreen (turns your screen black when your head is detected inside terrain blocks), but it continues to be a broken leg we can only use a bandaid on. Xray allows players to find hidden bases, shoot at other players and zombies through the terrain, and even fire rockets. Something simple as obscuring vision when underground might go a long way, like perhaps dense fog that appears when surrounded by terrain blocks. I'm sure I can elaborate forever, but I believe these are the biggest thorns in the side of big servers currently. All the smaller things can be handled by modders. Once again, thank you so much for taking time out of the day to read this.
  8. Its been in EA for 7 years. I don't think anyone would want to hold their breath for a final release at this point, cause who knows how far out there it could be. One of my points on handling more players was hanging on the fact the game's performance got worse with time, not better. But you guys are right, no matter what I say is shot down by the fact TFP have zero interest in what brings a pretty hefty chunk of players to this game. I never said the host of a 50 player server has the right mindset, I'm just not understanding how 8 player PvP even works in a fun or engaging way. At the same time, an absolute majority of people play this game making pretty POIs in singleplayer and not even really playing the survival aspect at all.. so I guess I really have none of it figured out and trying to will just subject me to condescending posts on these forums.
  9. It's very telling that many of these replies are are so saturated with sarcasm towards the point that some of us are trying to make clear. Multiplayer or not, the game is so hugely CPU intensive that it effects all of us. It doesn't have to be big servers, it could be simply wanting more zombies to fight at the same time without the game eating more than 50% CPU. In regards to the netcode, as a previous post said, one guy from china was able to make an entire alternative to use that makes even huge player populations possible as evidenced by european servers like PoBx. I do not want to say the name of the tool here though, because it effectively reroutes client connections to god knows where and is extremely sketchy if not illegal. But the point is that it's entirely possible. Earlier in the games life, these 50 player servers were more achievable... but as the game got updated, things got... worse? Why is every single thing that happens shared with every client on the map at once? Why is the client flooded with so much extra and often unnecessary information? These are things that literally the entire playerbase would benefit from being fixed. No, we don't want a battle royale. I regret mentioning DayZ and Rust because now I feel as a few of you have only painted what were asking for as some sort of trend following. We want 7 Days, otherwise we wouldn't be here. A lot of us understand the hurdle it is to develop this game, but a lot of us also see some extremely questionable lines of thinking that we can't help but point out. I don't know how anyone can defend them rushing stable just to meet the winter sale deadline while massive issues even they're aware of persist. Come on man.... Also, I don't know who in their right mind hosts an 8 player PvP server. That line should just be removed.
  10. But this thread explains more in detail and with hopefully some points to be made compared to that one. I also kind of find it insulting when people compare what we want to a Battle Royale. I don't think that thread equates, but I get it. What were looking for is not in this game. Despite our best efforts to make it work, to which have been successful for a long time, the final nail is in the coffin and we couldn't dodge it this time. It's just saddening is all. I can only hope and pray that after the full release, that the real icing on the cake that are large servers for this game get more support. A more apt comparison would be the book that gives bonus damage to humans, the book that delays turret detection and uhm.... land claim blocks? Are there reasons to use land claim blocks on 8 player coop besides picking workstations up..?
  11. That would be a dream. Handling at least 50, with the server staying stable. It's still not as much as preferred, but given what were working with it'd certainly be a miracle. Thanks for being understanding, and I do hope at least some of the things I said really do get looked at for the sake of the game.
  12. To elaborate on the title: I mean multiplayer as in any server with a player count above 8 people. (Skip this if you don't care about backstory, I tend to over-explain.) Before I get into the details why, I want to preface this by mentioning that I ran a fairly big server for 9 months starting at the beginning of this year (2021) named Sleepless. It was a PvP server I made in protest of a PvP server I had played previously, but left due to admin incompetence/corruption. I quickly taught myself .XML and learned a lot, and made it into one of the most successful servers according to battle metrics earlier this year without even trying to advertise it. People played it because of how much of a labor of love it was for me. Almost every 7 days PvP youtuber came and set up shop on Sleepless at some point. The sad thing is... I lost my love for running it for many reasons; Toxic players, cheaters, DDoS attacks, etc... of course these are things that any admin faces, but the biggest reason was because of the game itself. The constance of the game breaking itself, the memory leaks, the player profile corruptions, the ease of hacking the game, the absolutely massive resource costs (mainly CPU) to run a server effectively... but more than anything, the developer's overall direction. I have played this game since A16, but with large breaks. I can't consider myself a hardened vet, but I've learned so much so quickly that I feel I've completely de-mystified every facet of the game and find more enjoyment out of modding it than playing it. The more I learned however, the more upset I became. I very much realize this game is engineered for single player and 8 player co-op, and it's a damn shame... probably one of my biggest gripes. Why? Because this game is a hidden gem. When everything works right, large scale multiplayer in this game gives an experience like no other. It was always an experience best shared with as many people as possible... and this is beside the fact that this game would bring in 10x the $$$ if there was more respect given to the community of larger servers. The PVP would be on par, if not better than the likes of Day-Z or even Rust if servers could handle more people without crashing and the netcode was fixed. This game already brings more to the table than those two, but the horrible performance holds it back. REASONS FOR THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD: The game was not always so big-server unfriendly, even if the development direction has always favored singleplayer/coop. Before around A19.3, servers could handle up to 50 players online while still being at least decently playable. A19.3 was released to combat the new wave of nearly unstoppable hackers, but it was also at around this time that servers became unstable with only around 35 people maximum, if not less. While I may have run a PVP server, this affects all servers... PVE and PVP. To make matters worse, the hacking hasn't completely gone away due to the fact this game is biased towards client-side rather than server side. All these hackers have the same thing in common, and that's being able to execute creative mode and debug mode on servers. EAC does nothing against this because it's built in the game itself. XRAY: While the above is a more recent subject, There are also the huge factors that have existed forever and been mentioned numerous times; Netcode and Xray. For Xray, we have always been able to easily clip our cameras into the terrain and not only see through the world, but shoot everything from bullets to rockets through it. It's as simple as getting on a vehicle and pushing the camera against the terrain (Primarily when underground) or standing on top of a hatch and opening it so your head gets pushed into terrain above. While modders have helped combat this with black screen (turns your view to black when head is detected inside terrain), this is a bandaid on a broken leg. Something as simple as making a heavy fog appear underground (or when detected underground, like using the "_sheltered" cvar or something similar.) could be a huge ease on this burden. This is not a pvp centric issue. You can absolutely trivialize zombies and horde nights doing this as well. NETCODE: Netcode. This has always been issue #1. The netcode for this game is atrocious. even on populations of around 20-25 players, people will seem to "teleport" if they are moving around too fast. Many are even accused of hacking, when they have done no such thing.. the game makes them look like they are. A lot of this has to do with the games optimization and how clientside biased it is. A good friend of mine explained it better than I can: "Block Changes are sent out to every player on the server such that the world is up to date for all clients playing. So if player A places a block at +4000 +4000, player B at -4000 -4000 will know. One of the parts where I wanted some change, as the netcode is also so poorly done because there's a lot of redundant and a lot of unneeded information exchanged between all players." A20: A NEW HOPE? ...nah. Now as of A20, things have gotten even worse. I was for a while considering booting back up my server, but after fixing mods for a while and really field testing all the changes the developers have made to the game, I'm done. This update is great for the average player of this game. New zombie models! New guns! New realistic cities! But how is this update for those who host servers? The worst it's ever been. GRAPHICS: The game is prettier, sure.... outside of cities. For reference, I have a 3090 RTX (up to date drivers), i7-7700k, 32gb RAM. Going into the new RWG cities with all settings as LOW as possible, dynamic mesh turned off, etc.... 50 fps. No, I had not generated a RWG prior to jumping in the game. God forbid you come across the new skyscrapers, especially the new dishong tower. The game vomits just looking at it. BALANCE: Like PVP? All the guns were buffed, including the M60 which was already obscenely overpowered. AP ammo has gone from reducing armor by 25% to 50%... yes, 50%. It's all one shot now and basically impossible without modding. The new pipe guns are imbalanced even for PVE. The pipe machine gun is only marginally worse than an AK and costs two pipes, two glue and 6 wood to make. what. LOOT: At the same time, maybe we need the pipe machine gun to be easy to craft... because loot has been so drastically changed and is completely unfriendly to having more than 10 people on a server. You get scraps now. It's so heavily reliant on this new biome lootstage feature, that you almost HAVE to go to the more "difficult" biomes to get worthwhile loot. This also causes a major snowball effect on larger servers, as a few people can farm the only cities in the high lootstage biomes and have the best gear on the map. For most, this just means you're forced to do quests as looting barely gets you much anymore. Also on that note, trader progress now only applies to specific traders and is no longer map-wide. Big lame. DRONE: Just get rid of it. The dev's said on a stream that one of them added it as a pet project, so think about that for a second. It falls through the ground constantly. It's barely useful except for storage and maybe the healing. It's just... fluff. Maybe it'll be cool in the future, but for now... have fun retrieving lost ones for your players if you're an admin (I wouldn't bother). Now for the biggest problems of all. MAP CORRUPTIONS FROM NEW RWG: Not long into experimental, multiple servers have been encountering map corruptions on RWG generated maps. Sometimes it would be fine at first, then multiple chunks would corrupt over time. Makes it nearly unplayable. This only really affects higher population servers of around 20+. The developers are aware of the issue, and even started hosting a public multiplayer server to replicate and isolate the issue. So what happened? The server is completely unmodded and unmoderated. Chinese hackers get on the server and destroy a trader. All manner of shenanigans happen, and they can't find the issue. You'd figure this would be a big enough issue to hold off releasing A20 stable right? Nope. Stable is here despite the issue persisting. While it was nice at first to know it was getting looked into, the fact stable is already out is salt on the wound. Perhaps the game really is meant to be single player or coop at most, and that becomes even more true with the next issue: ANY PLAYER CAN SEE VEHICLE AND BEDROLL POSITIONS. And that means people can easily find landclaims. Sure, pvp isn't important in this game, but ne'er-do-wells exist on every server outside of maybe the private ones. The same clientside hacker can join a PVE server and proceed to ruin everyone's day, and now he barely has to look around. Read more here: CLOSING THOUGHTS: There are parts of my post that can come off as rude or out of touch to the devs, and I want to apologize for it ahead of time. Of course, I don't know everything that happens under the hood of this game, but from a more than observational standpoint... It's heartbreaking to watch. I mean no ill-will towards the developers, but I know I'm not the only one with these gripes. It's only been my wish to see the game get better, but what it needs right now isn't new models or graphics updates. I'm not saying I know better, but the game could be a masterpiece if the current "I only sell the things I like" mindset was put aside. I salute the large server admins who have chosen to muscle through despite an increasingly exhaustive environment. It’s abrasive just how many things need to be accounted for compared to hosting other games. I started my server with a lot of energy, but took me a year to realize it was an increasingly uphill battle that I just don’t have the stamina for any longer. I may likely provide modding support for some of these servers who's admins have earned my respect, and release a few of them to the public. I'm sad, sure. I'll continue to wish for the future, and theres always that chance that when the game is finished, the niche that is big servers will get the attention they deserve. One can only hope. Thanks for reading.
  13. With the reflex on the pipe rifle, reload, and you'll notice the dot from the sight does not move with the reflex sight. It floats in its general position when the gun is bent open. I think the dot may not have a parent set to it. *EDIT* this is also happening with the M60. Im sure its happening to all weapons that have moving parts.
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