Its Annoying That Streamers Get the Game First!

[Roland]

1 hour ago, bachgaman said:

They usually play very poorly in a game they don't like and portray fake emotions / express fake thoughts.

 

Yeah, they probably don't have souls and aren't actually human. I think there's a word for people who strive to dehumanize those they don't like or understand. 

[Khalagar]

1 hour ago, bachgaman said:

Another word. Has something to do with old

 

It's actually not old people that like streamers, it's old people like us who don't like them lol. Kids and zoomers are the ones who are obsessed with watching someone else play a video game instead of playing it themselves. It's mostly just a generational thing / mindset thing, where some of us are loners or grew up before the internet and don't want / need parasocial relationships and some do. But even pre-internet generations had people O B S S E S S E D with sports and sports teams the same way, or celebrities and celebrity gossip etc.

 

I'm anti streamer  in a "I don't really get it, but you do you" way, but it's pretty understandable for TFP to take the free advertising streamers offer. What's not understandable is Roland not pushing TFP to actively reach out themselves to Cover or a specific Hololive talent to showcase it. Free market on the tablet that's probably got more live viewer base than every other streamer on the list combined, SMH my head, just so SMH

Edited November 9, 2021 by Khalagar (see edit history)

[Roland]

14 hours ago, SpaceBound said:

After reading all of posts on releasing A20 only for streamers first, it still does not make sense if you think about one key factor, its about releasing the game.

 

It doesn't make sense because you refuse to acknowledge the main reason I already explained: Soft launch. That reason by itself justifies allowing one group to have it a few days before the general population. You can't argue against that reason and so you ignore it and keep stating that it makes no sense. 

 

14 hours ago, SpaceBound said:

Please dont quote semi-negative stuff i have written that has no weight on this topic just to belittle me and make me look bad, thats childish, if you cant respect others and their opinions then you should not really talk with people, sad thing is it comes from guy with over 11k posts. Peace.

 

So it is the quoting of "semi" negative stuff that is childish and makes someone look bad? It isn't the fact that that person posted it in the first place? I respect your opinion that TFP should not hold the event. I don't respect your stereotyping speech mingled in with that opinion. And if it has nothing to do with the topic then why did you post it? Because like all who employ ad hominem in their arguments you mistakenly believe that it adds weight to it. I don't blame you for not liking getting called out on it but as an 11k+ poster I have seen a lot of posts in my day and I know prejudice when I read it and I have no respect for it.

 

You can apologize for it and I'll respect that and even let it be bygones but that's as far as I'll go.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[jorbascrumps]

5 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

What's not understandable is Roland not pushing TFP to actively reach out themselves to Cover or a specific Hololive talent to showcase it. Free market on the tablet that's probably got more live viewer base than every other streamer on the list combined, SMH my head, just so SMH

 

Is this a joke? If not, can you stop? It has been explained to you multiple times how the process works.

[Khalagar]

yes it's a joke, I thought that was obvious lol. My point though is that the process is a passive approach "offer it to small streamers who ask" when an active  "reach out and offer it to streamers" would work a lot better since it likely wouldn't even require a sponsored stream to get streamers that are way bigger. Even a sponsored stream probably wouldn't cost much and would be a pretty good use of advertising budget

 

If gonna do a streamer weekend, might as well go big and try to nab some of the streamers that get thousands / tens of thousands of views per video and already play the game too, who probably would be open to playing, but are too busy to keep up with when experimental releases launch

Edited November 9, 2021 by Khalagar (see edit history)

[Roland]

10 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

What's not understandable is Roland not pushing TFP to actively reach out themselves to Cover or a specific Hololive talent to showcase it.

 

I'm very satisfied with the coverage we are getting each update. That's not to say I wouldn't want even more but I don't feel the need to actively recruit streamers nor have I been directed to do so. What we are currently doing is acceptable and taking applications from interested parties who come to us is working well. We don't actively recruit for the event at all and it is growing at a manageable level that is pleasing. Hope that clears it up for you.

 

13 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

Free market on the tablet that's probably got more live viewer base than every other streamer on the list combined, SMH my head, just so SMH

 

Many streamers came because viewers let them know about it and told them that they should participate. If you feel so strongly about this then go ahead and reach out to them and suggest they apply. We all know you feel strongly about it at this point with the multiple posts and even the video clips you've repeatedly posted so go and get them and make them aware. 

4 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

yes it's a joke

 

Interesting. I didn't get that. You always seemed so passionate and sincere posting about it-- even long before we even started taking applications for the event. I mean you brought it up out of the blue and posted that video about the girls laughing about their big chests and went on and on about how we should get those channels to showcase the game. What brought on that joke?

47 minutes ago, Ricowan said:

Come on people, this is a forum for a zombie survival game.  Why are you feeding TROLLS?

 

Because it is this awkward time just before a new update where most questions that will be answered have been answered, nobody wants to start a new A19 game and the one they are playing is starting to feel pointless since a restart will be necessary and arguing with anti-streamers before the weekend stream is tradition. 

[Gazz]

3 hours ago, Roland said:

The word in English is “spectator”. Glad to help you spruce up your language skills. Btw billions of dollars are generated each year thanks to spectators. Spectators have created several huge industries.

 

Yes. TV chairs with built-in mini fridges.

[mstdv inc]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

Да, у них, вероятно, нет души и они на самом деле не люди. Я думаю, что есть слово для людей, которые стремятся дегуманизировать тех, кого они не любят или не понимают.

Probably T2000 Terminators!
Liquid streamer metal 😁

[SpaceBound]

not even worth arguing about it lol 

[zztong]

1 hour ago, Ricowan said:

Come on people, this is a forum for a zombie survival game.  Why are you feeding TROLLS?

 

Well, Zombies want brains and I'm all out of those. I'd like to feed the chickens but they just run away. They must not like cornmeal.

[bachgaman]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

I'm absolutely flabbergasted how my analogy can be read that way. Are you hunting for things to be mad about ? 

 

An analogy is an analogy because some things are similar and some are not (otherwise it would be the thing itself). And the analogy was about the watchers not the ones they watch.

With your analogy, you turned the meaning upside down, which is why it is so awful. Jumping from the third floor with a gun instead of watching an action movie is not the same as clicking on the 7DTD shortcut instead of the browser shortcut.

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

This is absolutely identical to a sports spectator. Almost anyone can hit a ball with his foot or hit a tennis ball, even if only 1 in ten gets over the net. And still they watch and don't play. Is it your place to tell them what to do? Did you never ever watch a sports game or are you throwing stones in a glass house ?

Everyone can hit the ball, but not everyone is a professional footballer. In general, playing football is not so easy, you need to find people to play, you need physical training, you need to get up from the couch, you need strength, it takes time. Moreover, playing football in the yard, you will not see what you see on TV. Completely incorrect comparison with a computer game. I have nothing against watching professional competitive streams, but I never understand why watching someone not particularly capable of playing recreational games when you can do it yourself.

 

1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

Yeah, they probably don't have souls and aren't actually human. I think there's a word for people who strive to dehumanize those they don't like or understand. 

 

You can be ironic as much as you want, it will not change the fact that most streamers are not sincere, play badly and do it only for the sake of profit. I don’t understand why people consume such blatantly low-quality content. Because others are doing it? Well, man is a herd animal

[Aldranon]

I would say some streamers are very skilled at their favorite games.

Last time I heard, a Youtube streamer can get somewhere between $1-$6 per 1000 views.  That's very little money for the time they spend trying to entertain/inform plus editing (most do some editing).

 

But thats not the point, is it.  You want to play and it annoys you that a weekend is "wasted".  I get it,  I think everyone gets it.

[Dodge]

7 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

You can be ironic as much as you want, it will not change the fact that most streamers are not sincere, play badly and do it only for the sake of profit. I don’t understand why people consume such blatantly low-quality content. Because others are doing it? Well, man is a herd animal

 

Ah yes of course if i dont enjoy it and others do it must be because they are all sheeps and i'm superior to them for not enjoying it.

 

"most streamers are not sincere, play badly and do it only for the sake of profit"

 

You have some really negative views or maybe you're seeing things in extremes, yes sometimes there's a popular game and a streamer will play it for financial reasons but most of the time if they didn't enjoy it they wouldn't play it or at least not replay it.

 

Also "play badly", there's plenty of streamers focused on "elite/competitive gameplay" if that's what you're into but most of the time nobody gives a @%$# if  "oh no they are not playing in the most optimal way possible i'm so triggered".

 

Put some water in your wine, not everything is so black and white, but by the looks of it you seem to be drinking straight acid mixed with salt.

 

[BFT2020]

21 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

With your analogy, you turned the meaning upside down, which is why it is so awful. Jumping from the third floor with a gun instead of watching an action movie is not the same as clicking on the 7DTD shortcut instead of the browser shortcut.

It's exactly the same.  Spectating (watching an action movie, watching a sports game, watching a streamer play 7D2D) vs actively participating (performing an action stunt, playing a sport, playing 7D2D).

 

Quote

Everyone can hit the ball, but not everyone is a professional footballer. In general, playing football is not so easy, you need to find people to play, you need physical training, you need to get up from the couch, you need strength, it takes time. Moreover, playing football in the yard, you will not see what you see on TV. Completely incorrect comparison with a computer game. I have nothing against watching professional competitive streams, but I never understand why watching someone not particularly capable of playing recreational games when you can do it yourself.

 

Actually it is a correct comparison.  Not every sports game is professional sports.  Have you never gone and watch a youth game?  Watching a bunch of 5/6 year olds play Tee ball is not the same as watching a professional baseball team play, but the entertainment value is still there.

 

Quote

You can be ironic as much as you want, it will not change the fact that most streamers are not sincere, play badly and do it only for the sake of profit. I don’t understand why people consume such blatantly low-quality content. Because others are doing it? Well, man is a herd animal

 

We get it.  You don't care for streamers.  That doesn't mean others don't get entertainment value from them.  But just because you don't like it doesn't mean it should be taken from others.

 

We will get the release of Alpha 20 on Day X (which is 2.5 days after the streamers get early access to play and stream the game online).  Removing the streaming event is not going to change Day X.  When the streamer event it announced, you will know that the release of Alpha 20 is just around the corner.  Use that time to prepare for the release:  Do a clean uninstall and remove all files so once Alpha 20 is drop, you can do a clean install.

[Roland]

47 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

You can be ironic as much as you want, it will not change the fact that most streamers are not sincere, play badly and do it only for the sake of profit. I don’t understand why people consume such blatantly low-quality content. Because others are doing it? Well, man is a herd animal

 

I wish it was simply irony. Unfortunately, you continue to reveal yourself and it is pretty plain for all to see. What is sad is that you see yourself as an elite performer of this hobby and yet there are others in the world (full of hate themselves) who would see you as a worthless nerdy geeky time waster simply because you play video games and frequent internet forums instead of doing something actually worthwhile. They look down upon you just as much as you look down upon streamers and stream spectators. I think anyone who enjoys this hobby has heard hateful comments about "most gamers..." or "all video game nerds...."

 

Its all relative but the constant in all cases are the individuals who are hateful and feel they must tear down and denigrate the hobby or interest of others simply because they can't imagine themselves doing it and they can't just live and let live. They must express their hate. 

 

Sadly this extends also into much more serious spheres and is the cause for much sorrow in the world-- but even if the degree in this case is less and the harm done is miniscule by comparison, it is still the same sentiment of prejudice and bigotry we see all the time in the world by those few who feel compelled to lash out. There is no fact that most streamers are insincere or that most stream purely for profit. That is a trumped up fixed belief in your own mind to support your desire to hate. Some are probably insincere, surely, and some care only for profit or fame but I would say that most sincerely care about gaming and enjoy playing.

 

Also, the idea that people who watch streams only watch and never play, themselves, is ludicrous. Its silly that you would even set that up as an either/or scenario. It would be like saying that people who post in a forum aren't players. They're posters and are less than those who only play and never visit a forum. It shows that you aren't thinking clearly because of your prejudice and your tendency to pigeonhole people as one-dimensional characters. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[Roland]

36 minutes ago, Aldranon said:

You want to play and it annoys you that a weekend is "wasted"

 

Yeah, but that weekend won't be any more wasted than this weekend. Early access is going to continue uninterrupted for everyone who has bought into it. Alpha19 can still be played and will also be playable during the streamer weekend. Nobody's early access is going to be taken away or denied to them. An indev version of the game is always available to everyone who purchased early access. 

 

For those who don't wish to watch video gaming on the event weekend but still don't want to waste time doing non 7 Days to Die activities, you can play your final time with A19 before saying so long to it.

[bachgaman]

3 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

It's exactly the same.  Spectating (watching an action movie, watching a sports game, watching a streamer play 7D2D) vs actively participating (performing an action stunt, playing a sport, playing 7D2D).

Wrong. I cannot play football like Messi, so I will watch the broadcast of his game. I can't jump from a helicopter like Jason Statham, so I'll watch an action movie with him. I can play as well or better than most 7DTD streamers, so I won't watch this low-quality content.

22 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

Actually it is a correct comparison.  Not every sports game is professional sports.  Have you never gone and watch a youth game?  Watching a bunch of 5/6 year olds play Tee ball is not the same as watching a professional baseball team play, but the entertainment value is still there.

I have never watched the matches of five-year-olds, but I think I would be extremely uninteresting to watch this if my child was not among them.

22 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

We get it.  You don't care for streamers.  That doesn't mean others don't get entertainment value from them.  But just because you don't like it doesn't mean it should be taken from others.

A very important message. I totally agree that I shouldn't forbid them from doing what they do, but why would they forbid me? Double standards as usual

23 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

I wish it was simply irony. Unfortunately, you continue to reveal yourself and it is pretty plain for all to see. What is sad is that you see yourself as an elite performer of this hobby and yet there are others in the world (full of hate themselves) who would see you as a worthless nerdy geeky time waster simply because you play video games and frequent internet forums instead of doing something actually worthwhile. They look down upon you just as much as you look down upon streamers and stream spectators. I think anyone who enjoys this hobby has heard hateful comments about "most gamers..." or "all video game nerds...."

 

Its all relative but the constant in all cases are the individuals who are hateful and feel they must tear down and denigrate the hobby or interest of others simply because they can't imagine themselves doing it and they can't just live and let live. They must express their hate. 

 

Sadly this extends also into much more serious spheres and is the cause for much sorrow in the world-- but even if the degree is less and the harm done is miniscule in comparison, it is still the same sentiment of prejudice and bigotry we see all the time in the world by those few who feel compelled to lash out. There is no fact that most streamers are insincere or that most stream purely for profit. That is a trumped up fixed belief in your own mind to support your desire to hate. Some are probably insincere, surely, and some care only for profit or fame but I would say that most sincerely care about gaming and enjoy playing.

 

You make it sound like I hate them for no reason. But I don’t care at all, even if they eat @%$#, I don’t care as long as it doesn’t affect me. In this case, it affects me. Therefore, I condemn them. Most streamers are self-serving, fake and greedy lazy people, you can argue or you can not argue. This is a fact that does not require proof, because it follows from logic.

27 minutes ago, Roland said:

Also, the idea that people who watch streams only watch and never play, themselves, is ludicrous. Its silly that you would even set that up as an either/or scenario. It would be like saying that people who post in a forum aren't players. They're posters and are less than those who only play and never visit a forum. It shows that you aren't thinking clearly because of your prejudice and your tendency to pigeonhole people as one-dimensional characters. 

Where have I stated this? I did not say that the people who are watching are not playing. Most likely, many of them mindlessly repeat the actions of streamers in the game.

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, Khalagar said:

 

It's actually not old people that like streamers, it's old people like us who don't like them lol. Kids and zoomers are the ones who are obsessed with watching someone else play a video game instead of playing it themselves. It's mostly just a generational thing / mindset thing, where some of us are loners or grew up before the internet and don't want / need parasocial relationships and some do. But even pre-internet generations had people O B S S E S S E D with sports and sports teams the same way, or celebrities and celebrity gossip etc.

 

I'm anti streamer  in a "I don't really get it, but you do you" way, but it's pretty understandable for TFP to take the free advertising streamers offer. What's not understandable is Roland not pushing TFP to actively reach out themselves to Cover or a specific Hololive talent to showcase it. Free market on the tablet that's probably got more live viewer base than every other streamer on the list combined, SMH my head, just so SMH

 

Ok, I'm really confused now, you say you don't get that streaming stuff and don't watch it. But you obviously know the hololive performers in great detail, know their name, their idiosyncracies, the games they would play ?

 

How does that work ?

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[hotpoon]

I think it is good advertisingstrategy to offer early access to streamers, but would be more effective if these streamers had actual communities.  Last I looked at the list, at least a third of the streamers there had an average of 1 to 3 average viewers*. That's themself, themself on another browser and maybe a bot.  How they have 5000 followers if none of them watch?  Clearly they have bought their 5000 followers to qualify, but they aren't pulling in the traffic so are actually useless as advertisers.

There are streamers out there with 3000 or 4000 followers (so they don't qualify), but at least have 20 to 30 real people watching them.  It's a bit unjust.

*You can see stats of any streamer on https://sullygnome.com/

 

 

[bachgaman]

1 minute ago, hotpoon said:

I think it is good advertisingstrategy to offer early access to streamers, but would be more effective if these streamers had actual communities.  Last I looked at the list, at least a third of the streamers there had an average of 1 to 3 average viewers*. That's themself, themself on another browser and maybe a bot.  How they have 5000 followers if none of them watch?  Clearly they have bought their 5000 followers to qualify, but they aren't pulling in the traffic so are actually useless as advertisers.

There are streamers out there with 3000 or 4000 followers (so they don't qualify), but at least have 20 to 30 real people watching them.  It's a bit unjust.

*You can see stats of any streamer on https://sullygnome.com/

 

 

They are not greedy or deceitful at all, they are the angels of the video game world. They just want to help the 7DTD community and therefore buy bot subscriptions by cheating the system, but this is cheating for the good ...

[meganoth]

18 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

Wrong. I cannot play football like Messi, so I will watch the broadcast of his game. I can't jump from a helicopter like Jason Statham, so I'll watch an action movie with him. I can play as well or better than most 7DTD streamers, so I won't watch this low-quality content.

 

Streamers are often not watched for their playing prowess even though there are streamers like Ninja who are supposed to be expert players. I have also heard of a few 7D2D streamers who are called experts in the game, one of them is playing on extreme with only a knife...

 

Many streamers are watched for the ideas they have, for the comedic potential or just for their ability to entertain their audience. This is less like sports, more like watching shows or comedies on TV. This goes so far that many streamers get themselves in difficulties because it is more entertaining to watch them get out of those than watching them being very careful. Which is called acting.

 

By the way Jason Statham can't jump from a helicopter either, it's a fake !!! 😉

Edited November 9, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[bachgaman]

1 minute ago, meganoth said:

 

Streamers are often not watched for their playing prowess even though there are streamers like Ninja who are supposed to be expert players. I have also heard of a few 7D2D streamers who are called experts in the game, one of them is playing on extreme with only a knife...

 

Many streamers are watched for the ideas they have, for the comedic potential or just for their ability to entertain their audience. This is less like sports, more like watching shows or comedies on TV. This goes so far that many streamers get themselves in difficulties because it is more entertaining to watch them get out of those than watching them being very careful. Which is called acting.

 

 

I agree, there are people who do something unique and it can be interesting to watch them, but this is not a competitive game. Don't you think it is much more interesting to learn new content on your own, even if not on extreme difficulty with only knife, but to do it yourself? What's the point of watching the stream for two days, learning all the new features during this time, and only then go to play yourself? Some have compared this streamer weekend to movie teasers, but movie teasers do not show the entire plot and all the unexpected twists and turns. If they did, then such a film would not be interesting to watch. And here is the same thing.

[Lemmers]

If you're here on the forums and watching dev streams then you're in the 1% of the diehard community and know all the changes that are coming.  The other 99% of players (and literally everyone who doesn't own the game already) will see Twitch streamers playing A20 and get hyped. Then 2.5 days later everyone will want to play at the same time and push the game into the trending tab on Steam which is even more exposure and potential sales caused by this intentional delay.

Makes sense to me.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Lemmers (see edit history)

[bachgaman]

20 minutes ago, meganoth said:

By the way Jason Statham can't jump from a helicopter either, it's a fake !!! 😉

Please decide if this was the correct analogy or not. Or is it only right when it suits you? You said that watching 7DTD streams instead of playing 7DTD is the same as watching action movies instead of jumping from the 3rd floor with machine guns. Forgot?

7 hours ago, meganoth said:

I've been watching action movies all my live but never jumped from  3 story buildings with guns balzing myself. I know, I know, this doesn't look good, I really should don a cape and mask and hit random people I suspect of wrongdoing 😁

And how would Roland answer, where are the facts, where are the proofs? I'm sure he can, have you done any research?

Edited November 9, 2021 by bachgaman (see edit history)

[meganoth]

1 minute ago, bachgaman said:

I agree, there are people who do something unique and it can be interesting to watch them, but this is not a competitive game. Don't you think it is much more interesting to learn new content on your own, even if not on extreme difficulty with only knife, but to do it yourself? What's the point of watching the stream for two days, learning all the new features during this time, and only then go to play yourself? Some have compared this streamer weekend to movie teasers, but movie teasers do not show the entire plot and all the unexpected twists and turns. If they did, then such a film would not be interesting to watch. And here is the same thing.

 

Yes, I think it is more interesting to discover the game myself. This is one reason why I don't watch streamers. Though I watched a few of the info-streams made by TFP in the last few weeks which together with reading this forum has spoilered me a lot obviously.

 

So I am the wrong person to ask. I assume that weekend is less about information but more like an event, a happening, a party where people meet in the channels of their favourite streamer or streamers.