A20 Developer Diary Discussions

[Adam the Waster]

7 hours ago, NukemDed said:

how many hits with feather would it take?

90000000

[Matt115]

10 hours ago, Adam the Waster said:

i know

10 hours ago, Roland said:

 

Go record yourself harvesting a mine with your wrench.

 

Meme city.

i mean : cod have joke about shotguns range etc 

 

But i my opinion add some stuff like "hidden lore" can do a lot to bring people hear like :  in bunker you have this big indian skeleton like skeletons from subnatica.  On desert add a pit with skeletons some secret labs with some whiteboards , writings on walls and etc. And people will create a theory like : indians use a zombie viruse to kill people from ghost town and they kill rest of the zombie and put them into pits . Years later military  found big skeleton and put him in lab and start testing . And after some time some guys started exacaviations in navesgane. They found skeletons and rotting corpes. Workers get infected and go into Snowdog strip club when they started infecting everyone else. A headquarters in skytrapers with notes on walls photos confirme this etc etc etc

I know what i mean. People love this stuff and they will be looking for new clues like : you can find a plane with dead hazmat guy maybe they were trying to transport the virus etc . 

[Sindrinahk]

On 10/29/2020 at 6:49 PM, madmole said:

No we don't really look at mods, we have a huge list of stuff we want to do and don't need ideas nor care what 1% of the player base might be doing to their game. I hope that doesn't sound arrogant, but reflects the fact that we have a clear roadmap and list of features we need to focus on. 

Reminds me one of one the greatest 7d2d modder who told me once that he won't change mod because of 1% of players...til he thought to become a streamer and got rekt due to the same problem me and few other ppl suggested to fix before :) 

 

often this rest 90+% of pop you rely on  doesn't give a heck... they come and go. but this 1+% are dedicated

[meilodasreh]

7 hours ago, Burrfly said:

Why oversimplify the build path? [...] this oversimplification of the upgrade path literally ruins my excitement for alpha 20 [...]

 

Suggestion: try to not completely set your mind that it is oversimplified.

They try to make it less complex for several reasons that seem to make sense.

If it turns out that it really is oversimplified (meaning less funny/playable/immersive/[insert positive adjective of your choice here],

it might be changed back, or onward to another yet-to-be-developed state.

 

For now, don't be too worried, wait 'til release and give it a fair chance.

 

7 hours ago, Burrfly said:

And I think I speak for a big part of the community...

And I think I speak for an even bigger part of the commmunity than you 🤪

 

7 hours ago, Burrfly said:

I love this game

Me too

[Matt115]

Small question :  will be a stream from A20 this week?

[Burrfly]

35 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

Suggestion: try to not completely set your mind that it is oversimplified.

They try to make it less complex for several reasons that seem to make sense.

If it turns out that it really is oversimplified (meaning less funny/playable/immersive/[insert positive adjective of your choice here],

it might be changed back, or onward to another yet-to-be-developed state.

 

For now, don't be too worried, wait 'til release and give it a fair chance.

 

And I think I speak for an even bigger part of the commmunity than you 🤪

 

Me too

Thankyou for that kind reply, I will wait for release

[meilodasreh]

1 minute ago, Burrfly said:

Thankyou for that kind reply, I will wait for release

...which is the only available option anyways 😄

[Adam the Waster]

8 hours ago, Burrfly said:

I must get this out, because otherwise I'm gonna cry. @madmole I love almost all the upcoming changes for alpha 20, except 1 thing, which I'm really really sad about.

 

Why oversimplify the build path? I remember my very first playthrough of this game in alpha 16. I made a wooden base and I was so excited when I found out I could upgrade the wooden blocks, which I could upgrade again, and again. And it shook me and made me super curious to what I could upgrade it to after. It also does make sense in an apocalyptic world that you can reinforce your building with some iron (for example on the wooden block).

 

I can understand why the blocks going poof when destroyed is better, that's okay, but I'm very sorry: this oversimplification of the upgrade path literally ruins my excitement for alpha 20.

 

And I think I speak for a big part of the community...

 

I love this game, but this must be the worst way of simplifying... the complexity is what it made interesting, especially for new players that had to discover all the amazing gameplay features..

im just kinda sad they are getting rid of scrap metal.

IT FITS IN SO WELL FOR THE WASTELAND! Rust has it, Fallout has it! Why not 7DTD!

i think the building tier should go

(Wood, Stone, Scrap, concrete, steel)

and i kinda feel you about this 

 

On 10/29/2020 at 1:49 PM, madmole said:

No we don't really look at mods, we have a huge list of stuff we want to do and don't need ideas nor care what 1% of the player base might be doing to their game. I hope that doesn't sound arrogant, but reflects the fact that we have a clear roadmap and list of features we need to focus on. A larger inventory is something we would like to see though. The distant POI tech is coming from a modder though. So if something brilliant comes up usually we hear about it even though we aren't looking for things if that makes sense.

Look, I love ya but this IMO is a Bad mineset. 

its good to stay on a Path of what you want but at the same time. its also good to see what the community wants. Im not saying add everything they ask for, but its nice to keep a eye out. take the tough guy glasses, TFP didn't think about a Item that would give fortitude but someone in the community did (I forgot your name im sorry) and it was added in a Later Update.

But then again, im not a game dev but i think its at least nice to see what they are up too and see what they can do.
 

[Morloc]

I won't deny that I miss concrete forms.

 

Maximum immersion.

 

 

-Morloc

[Snowydeath]

10 hours ago, Burrfly said:

I must get this out, because otherwise I'm gonna cry. @madmole I love almost all the upcoming changes for alpha 20, except 1 thing, which I'm really really sad about.

 

Why oversimplify the build path? I remember my very first playthrough of this game in alpha 16. I made a wooden base and I was so excited when I found out I could upgrade the wooden blocks, which I could upgrade again, and again. And it shook me and made me super curious to what I could upgrade it to after. It also does make sense in an apocalyptic world that you can reinforce your building with some iron (for example on the wooden block).

 

I can understand why the blocks going poof when destroyed is better, that's okay, but I'm very sorry: this oversimplification of the upgrade path literally ruins my excitement for alpha 20.

 

And I think I speak for a big part of the community...

 

I love this game, but this must be the worst way of simplifying... the complexity is what it made interesting, especially for new players that had to discover all the amazing gameplay features..

I think most people would prefer to only break 1 block rather than go through 20 million downgrades to get into a POI

[SnowDog1942]

10 hours ago, Burrfly said:

I must get this out, because otherwise I'm gonna cry. @madmole I love almost all the upcoming changes for alpha 20, except 1 thing, which I'm really really sad about.

 

Why oversimplify the build path? I remember my very first playthrough of this game in alpha 16. I made a wooden base and I was so excited when I found out I could upgrade the wooden blocks, which I could upgrade again, and again. And it shook me and made me super curious to what I could upgrade it to after. It also does make sense in an apocalyptic world that you can reinforce your building with some iron (for example on the wooden block).

 

I can understand why the blocks going poof when destroyed is better, that's okay, but I'm very sorry: this oversimplification of the upgrade path literally ruins my excitement for alpha 20.

 

And I think I speak for a big part of the community...

 

I love this game, but this must be the worst way of simplifying... the complexity is what it made interesting, especially for new players that had to discover all the amazing gameplay features..

Yea I just cant imagine the build path simplifying being good, I think even concrete / reinforced concrete was merged into one.

 

Doesnt matter what we say they tho are hell bent on simplifying. 

[Matt115]

3 minutes ago, SnowDog1942 said:

Yea I just cant imagine the build path simplifying being good, I think even concrete / reinforced concrete was merged into one.

 

Doesnt matter what we say they tho are hell bent on simplifying. 

This idea to simplifying is so bad rly maybe just make 1 lvl of wood only okay but more simpifilying will just kill this small but charakteristic "design"

[Adam the Waster]

46 minutes ago, Morloc said:

I won't deny that I miss concrete forms.

 

Maximum immersion.

 

 

-Morloc

Ill miss scrap

 

 

10 minutes ago, SnowDog1942 said:

Yea I just cant imagine the build path simplifying being good, I think even concrete / reinforced concrete was merged into one.

 

Doesnt matter what we say they tho are hell bent on simplifying. 

yeah.... that is Kinda crapy.

their is nothing wrong with having a simi complex building, NO one was complaining about it. unless they REALLY don't know how to play the game!

AND THEY GOT RID OF MY SCRAP FOR GOOD 

its ok! ill be ok!! NO I WON'T! 

[BFT2020]

2 hours ago, Adam the Waster said:

Look, I love ya but this IMO is a Bad mineset. 

Not really.  They have their roadmap.  Everyone else has a different opinion on everything that they should be doing.  Trying to please everyone means nobody will be pleased.

 

The goal is to get the roadmap done while also allowing the ability to mod the game the way you want to (within reason of course).  So those extra weapons everyone wants, they can generate a mod to do it.  Want different perks than what TFP decides to go with, mod it in.

 

They do listen to feedback and suggestions, but in the end, they are going to do what they think is best for the game and best things to concentrate on.  Things that others can add later through mods, they will let the modders do it and concentrate on the base game.

[Matt115]

40 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

Ill miss scrap

 

 

yeah.... that is Kinda crapy.

their is nothing wrong with having a simi complex building, NO one was complaining about it. unless they REALLY don't know how to play the game!

AND THEY GOT RID OF MY SCRAP FOR GOOD 

its ok! ill be ok!! NO I WON'T! 

..... okay.. so i will make it quick :  complex bulding = spend most of time to create you base-= 7 days to die mean 7 days until zombie comes. So virgin scavenging vs CHAD BUILDING . MAKE A SCAVENGING ONLY EARLY GAMESTAGE -  BULDING A MASSIVE FORRTRESS FOR REAL ELITE! 

[dcsobral]

37 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

This idea to simplifying is so bad rly maybe just make 1 lvl of wood only okay but more simpifilying will just kill this small but charakteristic "design"

Honestly, scrap iron is pretty useless in a19. It's not in the wood upgrade path, and though it provides extra structural integrity you can't upgrade them if you use them for that.

 

Also, let's be realistic. Reinforced Wood and Metal Reinforced Wood are extremely rare. If people want durability they go with Flagstone, if not they just keep to Wood. Flagstone is uncommon -- you'll keep structures at flagstone if you don't have enough cobblestone. As soon as the supply catches up to demand, you move on to cobblestone. Concrete is only common because it's so expensive. If you had enough concrete, you'd just make everything reinforced concrete to begin with.

 

The main reason to choose wood or cobblestone or concrete in my own experience and with the streamers I watch is the lack of shapes in one or the other. If all shapes are available for every material then people will pick the material based on the supply available. Upgrading the material is just busywork. Gaining experience from upgrading is going to take a major hit, though. Being a builder is going to suck in this particular regard.

 

I'm more interested in what shapes are going to be available? The currently available shapes are a big improvement over, say, alpha 16, but there are still all sort of "holes" on the shapes I'd like to use for base building. It got to the point that ever since I stopped playing modded -- which usually unlocks a lot more shapes -- I have reduced my bases to cubes, ramps, wedges, half blocks, plates, stairs and ladders. 

 

[Matt115]

1 minute ago, dcsobral said:

Honestly, scrap iron is pretty useless in a19. It's not in the wood upgrade path, and though it provides extra structural integrity you can't upgrade them if you use them for that.

 

Also, let's be realistic. Reinforced Wood and Metal Reinforced Wood are extremely rare. If people want durability they go with Flagstone, if not they just keep to Wood. Flagstone is uncommon -- you'll keep structures at flagstone if you don't have enough cobblestone. As soon as the supply catches up to demand, you move on to cobblestone. Concrete is only common because it's so expensive. If you had enough concrete, you'd just make everything reinforced concrete to begin with.

 

The main reason to choose wood or cobblestone or concrete in my own experience and with the streamers I watch is the lack of shapes in one or the other. If all shapes are available for every material then people will pick the material based on the supply available. Upgrading the material is just busywork. Gaining experience from upgrading is going to take a major hit, though. Being a builder is going to suck in this particular regard.

 

I'm more interested in what shapes are going to be available? The currently available shapes are a big improvement over, say, alpha 16, but there are still all sort of "holes" on the shapes I'd like to use for base building. It got to the point that ever since I stopped playing modded -- which usually unlocks a lot more shapes -- I have reduced my bases to cubes, ramps, wedges, half blocks, plates, stairs and ladders. 

 

Well flagstone is more usefull that shapes because creating wall it best using a normal shape and put barber wire on outside. Flagstone can be upgraded into cobbelstone - this can you get rly big lvl rly fast so it very usefull. "streamers" yeez it should be forget with let's plays. Good i miss time when only were gameplays without any word and they were usefull if you didn't have this console or if you wanted to know how to pass a puzzle in game

[ShellHead]

55 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

Not really.  They have their roadmap.  Everyone else has a different opinion on everything that they should be doing.  Trying to please everyone means nobody will be pleased.

 

The goal is to get the roadmap done while also allowing the ability to mod the game the way you want to (within reason of course).  So those extra weapons everyone wants, they can generate a mod to do it.  Want different perks than what TFP decides to go with, mod it in.

 

They do listen to feedback and suggestions, but in the end, they are going to do what they think is best for the game and best things to concentrate on.  Things that others can add later through mods, they will let the modders do it and concentrate on the base game.

100% agree.

Everyone who has an opinion on what 7d2d should be (modders, streamers, forum dwellers, etc) has their own vision of what the game is, and that gets incredibly hard to sift through to find suggestions and ideas that would actually align with TFP’s vision of 7d2d. So it’s significantly simpler for them to just focus on what they want the game to be and let popular ideas bubble up to their attention and decide if it would work well with the game as they envision it.

otherwise you get an incredibly confused game because it’s trying to be everything to everyone, zombie survival crafting tower defense fps is a huge amount to wrangle as it is.

[hiemfire]

4 hours ago, Adam the Waster said:

(Wood, Stone, Scrap, concrete, steel)

If they want to majorly slow down upgrading then that would work as an upgrade path. The Iron (aka "scrap") would make for a tighter bottleneck thanks to the crafting/upgrading for iron not exactly being cheap in aggregate over an entire base (currently) and the damn resource being a key component to almost everything.

[Adam the Waster]

1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:

Not really.  They have their roadmap.  Everyone else has a different opinion on everything that they should be doing.  Trying to please everyone means nobody will be pleased.

 

The goal is to get the roadmap done while also allowing the ability to mod the game the way you want to (within reason of course).  So those extra weapons everyone wants, they can generate a mod to do it.  Want different perks than what TFP decides to go with, mod it in.

 

They do listen to feedback and suggestions, but in the end, they are going to do what they think is best for the game and best things to concentrate on.  Things that others can add later through mods, they will let the modders do it and concentrate on the base game.

maybe Bad Mindset is a Wrong world to say, what word i can say? idk but

its nice to keep a eye on some things. like the Tough guy glasses. or Improvement on features 

Lets take some things that has been turned almost useless. 

• Dysentery, that uses to be kind of a odd ball thing were when you needed to drink water and you got sick, i need to heal my self, then tfp made it so that Almost anything can make you sick, they get rid of it cuz people didn't shut up about it, And now Beardly ANYONE gets dysentery 

 

•  the Simi new death system. in A17 YOU didn't WANT to die, because it look a hour just to get back on track, that was too harsh, people complained and now all it does is take XP, so now its too light.   
   
• Snow berries: Uses to be a Simi useless aid for the snow now is just a early game food item that does not even harm you
   
• Lockpick perk: Lock picks can Only be uses on Boxs..... and they are common enough for you to just keep breaking them and using them. no need for it.

And Most of the times with mods, they are not up to par with the official game (with some expiations)  Plus once this game goes gold and comes to console they will not be able to mod the game. 


it also dose not help they are making the game more simple. 

30 minutes ago, ShellHead said:

everything to everyone, zombie survival crafting tower defense fps is a huge amount to wrangle as it is.

thats kinda the main point of the game though, its a Hybrid game 

Survival, FPS, Open world, RPG, Tower defense, building etc

10 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

If they want to majorly slow down upgrading then that would work as an upgrade path. The Iron (aka "scrap") would make for a tighter bottleneck thanks to the crafting/upgrading for iron not exactly being cheap in aggregate over an entire base (currently) and the damn resource being a key component to almost everything.

but at the same time, almost every Building you find, and any mine you make can have scrap.

1 piece of Scrap block is about 40 (not the frame) and if they wanted to make it even simpler they would gut the other tier so its just scrap.... that's nothing. i can head to the wasteland and i have enough to Build a Junk fort and scream at rats with my shirt off all i want!

if you have a Iron mine or Any Mine. you will be swimming in iron. 

and if they really wanted to make a Upgrade path, they could make a system where
you could skip any tier to get to the other.  How? Hold R. and go to a resource wheel. you want to make steel? go ahead but you need the goods still for steel. 

Or a reward for using all the tiers as a "extra Block health" for using them other skipping them 

[ShellHead]

@Adam the Waster
I see where the wires crossed: you’re talking about mods as adding complexity to 7d2d, i was referring to mods as taking the game in different directions. I was making the point that they had a core idea for the game that required a fair amount of wrangling and so adding more different directions would make dealing with them impossible, not that the existing systems shouldn’t be made deeper. Complexity is good but only if it works to enrichen and clarify the game as envisioned, if it muddies the concepts you have to really consider if it’s something you want to add.

[Roland]

2 hours ago, dcsobral said:

I'm more interested in what shapes are going to be available?

 

In regards to what is in the new shape menu, here is a reference that comes close...

 

 

Kudos to @schwanz9000 for the many hours of work. You guys are all going to be blown away. Trust me.

[Roland]

Its true at every level and in every industry. Established companies have their own list of features that they already have planned to include into a game and aren't really looking for outside help to add to that list or bump items that are already in the list. Stepping back a level, they also already have game ideas queued up that they plan to work on and aren't looking to be pitched new game ideas.

 

This is the way it has always been and it is this frustration that has made crowdfunding become the huge industry that it is--as well as YouTube. Thanks to Kickstarter anyone can pitch an idea to the masses and have a better chance to get funding to see their project come to light than they ever had by trying to pitch their idea to an existing publisher or studio. It's how this game came to be.

 

YouTube has done the same thing for fame. It used to be that you could only become famous by first securing an agent and then breaking into the business and hoping for a breakout hit that would put your name and face into the public consciousness. Now, people bypass that old model thanks to YouTube.

 

For this particular game, the best way to get your great idea implemented is through modding because, honestly, the developers have already picked and planned all the good ideas they are going to use for this game.

 

Now, we can all see thanks to Early Access, Kickstarter, and YouTube that most "good ideas" are actually trash and you do have to sift through a lot of @%$# BUT when you find a gem or some amazing talent that never would have become reality under the traditional models it does make you glad.

[Matt115]

5 minutes ago, Roland said:

Its true at every level and in every industry. Established companies have their own list of features that they already have planned to include into a game and aren't really looking for outside help to add to that list or bump items that are already in the list. Stepping back a level, they also already have game ideas queued up that they plan to work on and aren't looking to be pitched new game ideas.

 

This is the way it has always been and it is this frustration that has made crowdfunding become the huge industry that it is--as well as YouTube. Thanks to Kickstarter anyone can pitch an idea to the masses and have a better chance to get funding to see their project come to light than they ever had by trying to pitch their idea to an existing publisher or studio. It's how this game came to be.

 

YouTube has done the same thing for fame. It used to be that you could only become famous by first securing an agent and then breaking into the business and hoping for a breakout hit that would put your name and face into the public consciousness. Now, people bypass that old model thanks to YouTube.

 

For this particular game, the best way to get your great idea implemented is through modding because, honestly, the developers have already picked and planned all the good ideas they are going to use for this game.

i can't agree , People wanted crafting in mount and blade 2 they added it , execution too m having child etc. I think 7dtd isn't dayz . It can be support eternal like minecraft - put new zombies guns and stuff. So IF i were head of TFP i would to try keep 7dtd as long as it can and create games in this universe like minecraft have minecraft story and dungeons. so something like last of us , resident evil  can work do. What can do to? Fat zombie figure ,  clothes etc 

 

59 minutes ago, ShellHead said:

@Adam the Waster
I see where the wires crossed: you’re talking about mods as adding complexity to 7d2d, i was referring to mods as taking the game in different directions. I was making the point that they had a core idea for the game that required a fair amount of wrangling and so adding more different directions would make dealing with them impossible, not that the existing systems shouldn’t be made deeper. Complexity is good but only if it works to enrichen and clarify the game as envisioned, if it muddies the concepts you have to really consider if it’s something you want to add.

 

Well i agrea with you but there is a big mess with mods. Ofc some mods can be " lore friendly" or " zombie shrek".  So it is necceasary in my opinion to create ideas what can be working. Or we will get another enemy terriroty - game killed by stupid mods like pony  with hm " purple long" guns xd . Most mods  create for 7dtd in my opinion looks terrible - Snufkin's Custom Server Side Zombies - PLUS         weell zombies looks like something like from asset game for 1 EURO on steam. Ofc some of them like vehicle madness mod looks "setting good" even could be added as offical updated ( like stuff from antibirth mod into biding of issac). What is my point? For example i can't do anything no programming , no making modesl - well i'm worthless  i know about that XD so i trying to create some ideas. TFP will use it? good. Moders will use it?  good. just i don't only complain about 1243523431 hatsune miku zombies

[Roland]

8 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

People wanted crafting in mount and blade 2 they added it

 

There are always exceptions to rule of course and even TFP took a lot of player feedback earlier in the development cycle. But the game is nearly done now and they have their list of tasks needed to get it done and they are not looking to add to that list. If you wanted to add a revolutionary idea and have it take fire in the minds of the developers your a few years too late.

 

Get on the ground floor for their next game.