Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[Jost Amman]

@TFP/Mods : if you wanna have a good laugh, have a look at this user's post on Steam... 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/0/3196990234729652301/?ctp=2#c3196990234732445644

[Aldranon]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

Stealth has been changed for A20 and will require some adaptation. There are no longer any auto trigger zombie wakeup areas. When you enter a volume there is going to be a check vs your stealth for each zombie to see if it wakes up. If you fail the check one or more zombie will wake up. If those zombies are in a position to see you then they will attack but if they don't see you then you can still enjoy stealth gameplay that you spent your points on. A zombie that wakes up doesn't automatically negate your stealth. It all depends on how you react.

 

We do need feedback on the system but you should know that the system is not automatic guaranteed aggro as soon as you pass an invisible line like some areas were in A19. Maybe you could give us a seed and the location of the POI where it seemed the zombies aggroed automatically.

 

Stealth in POI's isn't very good, very few zombies are visible and bad fail at a critical moment will probably be the end.  However stealth in your base picking off the wolves/zombies just before morning is a good thing, but doesn't require much stealth to succeed. 

 

I lucked out with a quality 5 compound x-bow and I slapped all the spare mods I had or could build on it.  With stone bolts, I can one-shot most things!  Too OP IMO.

[WarWren]

Thank you Fun Pimps for an awesome update. Performance on my laptop has stepped up from medium to high with the new alpha. Fantastic!

[OLlIiee]

I Played alpha 20 and this game has the same optimalization! Its crashing all the time and the loading screen is too long and crashing too.  

[Aldranon]

43 minutes ago, OLlIiee said:

I Played alpha 20 and this game has the same optimalization! Its crashing all the time and the loading screen is too long and crashing too.  

 

I had one crash, but that is one out of around 20 times playing and I got a so-so computer, nothing amazing.

 

Did you do a complete wipe of A19 and all saves?

[meganoth]

14 hours ago, JaxTeller718 said:

All of this is true.

 

Before I say this I want to express how great this alpha feels so I am not trying to be troll-y with my comment. But sometimes it feels like this is being balanced by three different teams. You have some areas that are quite easy, then some that are perfectly balanced. Then there are the times when things seem to be veering to please hardcore players. It feels very janky and un-coordinated in some areas and does not feel cohesive.

 

For example, upgrading blocks is a more efficient use of time to level xp then actually killing anything, to the point where going out to loot feels like a waste of time.

 

Progression in this game is split between equipment and perks but zombies level increases only with your level. If you only collect xp and few equipment you make the zombies stronger while yourself missing out on the equipment bonus.

 

14 hours ago, JaxTeller718 said:

POIs themselves are difficult at times early on, which is wonderful but the payoff just isn't there. If you get infected (which is very often almost every time you get hit) there are almost no stumps in the world and most times they give nothing back. With how often infection occurs this is terribly unbalanced at times.

 

Making a base at first seems like a waste too. Zombies can see you quite clearly in a base on day 1-3 so taking a poi is the best bet. To the point you feel pigeon holed to do it every time. 

 

Perks are a whole other topic. I'm forced to sink points into what i feel is a useless endeavor to get stations. I don't care for or want perks for batons/electric/turrets but i must sink them there for access to vehicles and benches. Why? its an attempt at a janky class system. And lets not talk about why anyone would want to take clubs or blunt weapons when bleed on knives is always a better bet. Even pipe batons are better than a club.

 

. The cost of the attribute is part of the cost of the perk. It can be seen as a variable level gate that gets less costly the more you take from a specific attribute tree. It also can be seen as a permeable class system, and if you don't like class systems, thats ok. 

 

I like this system, I always have a lot of difficult choices what I should take next, what I want from other classes and whether it is worth it going deeper into another tree. The attribute for a secondary trees is almost always a pure cost (except for INT players) because it gates other perks, It prevents picking the best parts of every attribute and ultimately getting bored because you always play the same game with the same perks. For me this system is one reason why I can play this game multiple times between alphas (apart from modding which also provides huge variability).

 

 

4 hours ago, Aldranon said:

 

Stealth in POI's isn't very good, very few zombies are visible and bad fail at a critical moment will probably be the end.  However stealth in your base picking off the wolves/zombies just before morning is a good thing, but doesn't require much stealth to succeed. 

 

I lucked out with a quality 5 compound x-bow and I slapped all the spare mods I had or could build on it.  With stone bolts, I can one-shot most things!  Too OP IMO.

 

There is nothing wrong with that (except that such lucky drops seem a bit too common at the moment). If you had found a tier3 M60 you would mow down basic zombies as well.

 

[BFT2020]

4 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

@TFP/Mods : if you wanna have a good laugh, have a look at this fool's post on Steam... 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/0/3196990234729652301/?ctp=2#c3196990234732445644

He should join up with our forum resident program manager.  Between the two of them, they should easily produce an award winning game in about a month.

6 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Here we go beating a dead horse again.

you forgot this

 

2 hours ago, OLlIiee said:

I Played alpha 20 and this game has the same optimalization! Its crashing all the time and the loading screen is too long and crashing too.  

Have you thought about going to the general support section of the forums and reading the pinned post about reporting an issue?  There is a bunch of people that regularly read that area and provide support to those that need it.

[meganoth]

6 hours ago, Aldranon said:

 

I think farming is now a mid game thing for SP and can be early game for MP.  (MP is the new easy mod IMO).

 

On SP playing A20: You better be a real Lone Wolf: "Swift, Silent, Deadly".  Force Recon must have played A20  

SP, a focus on every little sound is potential life and death:  Do you hear the sound wolves make?  Do you hear when there are vultures spawning in?  Do you know what to do when 3+ vultures are attacking you in a vehicle?   Do you know when to stop using a melee weapon and immediately bring out the big guns (High rate of fire, good damage) and do you have a backup "big gun" when the first one wasn't enough?

 

Edit: and you always need to be looking around.  A 6 pack of dogs or a bear you didnt see are killers.  3+ vultures might not kill you, but you will have an infection at the very least if you don't move/act quickly. 

 

Exactly, that is why I can't play with music on. Music might still be acceptable if it were some eerie but continuous sound, but percussion and abruptly changing pieces are an absolutely no-go, as they always trigger my alarm senses or even cover the real danger sounds.

 

Now lots of players play more rambo-style and for them it probably works well. And I don't have problems passing on the music, so not at all a priority for me, just want to mention it.

6 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

you forgot this

 

 

Thank you, I have implemented your suggestion. 😁

[Aldranon]

9 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Exactly, that is why I can't play with music on. Music might still be acceptable if it were some eerie but continuous sound, but percussion and abruptly changing pieces are an absolutely no-go, as they always trigger my alarm senses or even cover the real danger sounds.

 

Now lots of players play more rambo-style and for them it probably works well. And I don't have problems passing on the music, so not at all a priority for me, just want to mention it.

 

Thank you, I have implemented your suggestion. 😁

 

Yeah, the music could kill the player's character.  That and I hear the dynamic sound can cause the game to stutter.

[zztong]

On 12/13/2021 at 7:30 AM, Doomofman said:

Is it just me or would it be better if the search term reset when you leave the Shape menu or if we had a button to clear the search? It's annoying when you need to switch back to all the blocks to have to click into the search box and delete the text

 

When making POIs in the Prefab Editor, I'm finding it kind of handy that it doesn't delete the search text. If I search for something like "box" and don't find it, then I turn off my group selections and find the objects on the full list. I wouldn't be messed up if the change were made as you suggest, but I have found the current behavior to be useful.

[LewZephyr]

9 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

Oh I know, I was just wondering if these empty shells were supposed to be spawning or not.

 

I may be mis-remembering but I feel like I heard on the Dev Stream that there are a few POI's that intentionally do not have any Zeds.  i.e. some places are just abandoned, and are available for a player to convert into an early base.

[hotpoon]

@madmole please would you ask Lathan if he gets a chance if he could make it so that the Twitch integrations could be dragged to a different part of the screen. Some streamers have their webcams on the right, so that obscures the integrations. If not draggable, then perhaps be able to choose between left and right of the screen.

 

Apologies if I'm asking in the wrong place. 

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, zztong said:

When making POIs in the Prefab Editor, I'm finding it kind of handy that it doesn't delete the search text. If I search for something like "box" and don't find it, then I turn off my group selections and find the objects on the full list. I wouldn't be messed up if the change were made as you suggest, but I have found the current behavior to be useful.

What if the search field was reset only when you press one of the categories filters?

That way, when you want to "change subject" you'll start from scratch...

[madmole]

On 12/10/2021 at 8:52 AM, JaxTeller718 said:

I'm personally all for harsher death penalties. I had an awesome experience yesterday while infected and hungry. Wandering horde was on top of me trying to get to me at night. When I died I was fine and it took all the fun and excitement away from the experience knowing that i can just die to fix it all. The XP penalty isn't large enough to really care as with a few zombie kills I was right back where I needed to be.

 

I did make a modlet for anyone who wants to test out what harsher death penalties would be like. It halves the food and water on respawn to 50 percent of your max, it  keeps infection and broken arms and legs on respawn but will clear infection when it reaches 100 percent and you die, and it raises the limit on XP deficit from 50 percent max deficit to 100 percent max so if you die 4 times it will no longer accumulate deficit.

I find this is harsher but not too harsh like it used to be in A17.

You can find it here  Jax Death Modlets Among Others

 

That said A20 has been amazing in my opinion. The sense of fear is back and I am not looking to mod things as fast as in other Alphas. This is a home run imo and the pois and danger present are amazing. Great work Mad Mole and the team! This is a huge step in the right direction!

 

PS - I love the farming now. It means something and it is not easy mode. You have to WORK to get a farm up and it feels like an accomplishment so put me in the camo of being a fan of the changes.

 

PPS - Yuck on the image with the link can we make it so theres no image?

 

 

Awesome you put that mod together so fast. We're still discussing potential designs. Glad you like A20!

[Guppycur]

6 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

@TFP/Mods : if you wanna have a good laugh, have a look at this fool's post on Steam... 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/0/3196990234729652301/?ctp=2#c3196990234732445644

He's not foolish,  he's just wrong.  There is a difference IMO. <shrug>

[Marinxar]

7 hours ago, Roland said:

 

Stealth has been changed for A20 and will require some adaptation. There are no longer any auto trigger zombie wakeup areas. When you enter a volume there is going to be a check vs your stealth for each zombie to see if it wakes up. If you fail the check one or more zombie will wake up. If those zombies are in a position to see you then they will attack but if they don't see you then you can still enjoy stealth gameplay that you spent your points on. A zombie that wakes up doesn't automatically negate your stealth. It all depends on how you react.

 

We do need feedback on the system but you should know that the system is not automatic guaranteed aggro as soon as you pass an invisible line like some areas were in A19. Maybe you could give us a seed and the location of the POI where it seemed the zombies aggroed automatically.

 

Interesting, thank you for the feedback on this. I, too, was under the impression that A20 had even more hard coded trigger areas, than A19. I actually gave up on my pure Agility build, because it really seemed that Stealth was being by-passed.  Will do a proper clean test and give feedback in the proper thread. 

[Jost Amman]

12 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

He's not foolish,  he's just wrong.

By foolish I mean he's so delusional he believes that a commercial-grade game is as simple to change as a Unity tutorial. 

[Guppycur]

3 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

By foolish I mean he's so delusional he believes that a commercial-grade game is as simple to change as a Unity tutorial. 

 

Well he's not wrong in that it takes less than 30 minutes to add a new object, where he's wrong at is all of the other associated items WITH adding a new object, to be able to get to that point where you can add it... from design to modeling/rigging/animation, to testing to the bloat that is just part of being a company.  So I get his perspective, he's just not able to see the bigger picture.

 

He will either take my reply as education or as hostility, that'll be his choice to make. 😃

[elektrohund]

16 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

He's not foolish,  he's just wrong.  There is a difference IMO. <shrug>

Eh, why not both? He equates ease of modding with the game being technically simple because he apparently thinks using xpath is coding or something.  Neither does he seem to understand what game optimization is.

[madmole]

On 12/10/2021 at 4:51 PM, bachgaman said:

 

1. Does anyone know how to extend the blood moon? Here is my first blood moon at A20. The zombie respawn ended at ~ 00: 00. Too easy

 

2. Today I started a new game without a trader, a survivalist, 50% loot. The amount of ammo at the start of the game is roughly equivalent to what I might call survival. The ammo remain for emergencies only. This suggests that the number of ammo and grenades among the trader's rewards should be multiplied not by 0.5, but by 0. It would be cool to be able to craft "poor ammo" (with a chance of misfiring and lower damage) from inventory without a workbench to start the game, but without the crazy rewards from the trader.

 

3. It's still a shame that the classic vanilla game still lacks the incentive to explore the world. Robbing the same infinitely renewable POIs by a trader is very tedious. A setting is needed so that the trader would issue each POI only once and would never repeat it again forever/for a while/until any conditions are met (for example, all POIs in the world are fulfilled). Otherwise, the whole variety of POIs or the size of the world do not matter. A very serious Barter nerf is urgently needed (more precisely, a secret stash of a trader) @madmole please, give us a slider, see it while you are here!😂

Just use some self restraint and don't do any repeat quests. Turn off loot respawn. It's not perfect but role playing through self restraint can solve problems. Its a multiplayer game we can't not reset POIs for new players to experience it.

[dcsobral]

11 hours ago, Syrex said:

Day 32: (difficulty 3/5, 2 hour days, loot (started at 50, then tried 75, parked at 100), 50% xp)

 

Dislike: 1) the Over use of invisible triggered zombie wakeup.. kinda negates all my agility point spending - i like to play stealth. Am doing tier 3 quests, again (moved locations so new trader), and a good portion of the quests with previous trader and with this trader involve "triggered" swarms - not a fan, but to each their own. 2) Acid is a little too rare (day 32 and only found 3). 3) to me, the hitbox for direwolves head seems "off" or smaller than the graphic, alot of my shots (gun and crossbow) go thru the head but hardly ever register a damaging hit. That's it so far...

 

now...

LikeS: far too many to list, however my top few would be 1) RWG, heck yes (i do however dislike that the paint on the streets actually take up a block-space and can't place anything directly overtop of it, but thats a minor meh) 2) love the builders-love we received, Blocks-O-Plenty (maybe paint/textures next?!?! i know i'm pushing my luck lol) 3) the ChaLLenge.. I have a few hours invested overall in this game and in my play thrus i die maybe twice each go.... A20 I've died 12 times thus far (triggered swarms x3, an explosion in a farm poi (still baffled by this one) x1, Direwolves x7 <<-- LOL, andddd a Bear x1.. need that meat!

 

I'm on the fence with the farming.. its good for what it is, but I cant see this as being "the" answer to whatever TFP is after. Something about it just feels off.. LotL 3 was a must to a "sustaining" farm - and thats expensive considering where points should go early on. This Alpha, I find myself hunting more (dont always go as planned hence the deaths lol). Still alot I havent seen yet sooooo, I'm looking forward to the next x-amount of hours. <<end update>>

You need 5 points for LotL 3. Increase Fortitude to 3 (2 points), wear the tough guy sunglasses (For +1), eat sham chowder (For +1), increase LotL to 3. Repeat sunglasses/sham chowder when harvesting/making seeds.

[meilodasreh]

13 hours ago, bachgaman said:

I understand that a motorcycle is more maneuverable and passable, but usually I prefer a truck, as I often play in a group. The conversation was about speed

Yes, I guess a 4x4/truck is more fun with all the guys together in one vehicle...thank you for reminding me that I have no friends 😅

Considering speed...well how do you define speed?

Highest mph that the vehicle can reach and time to reach destination are two different things of course if your way isn't just a straight flat line.

Nevermind, maybe I'm just a bad driver with a steering wheel, I need handlebars. 😉

But I will definitely check out the A20 4x4 now, you all got me curious about its actual behaviour, just in case I happen to find one/the schematics/parts. 

[madmole]

On 12/11/2021 at 9:58 AM, Kosmic Kerman said:

One thing I've noticed is that weapon parts drop much less or in lower quantity in A20.  This seems to make weapon crafting somewhat pointless. I'm on Day 18 and just found the pump shotgun schematic. I was going to craft it but only had 1 shotgun part. I then turn in my next trader reward and got a Green pump shotgun.  I'm not sure what the value add of crafting is here.  There's no point crafting a blue pump shotgun when by the time I have enough parts I will probably have looted a purple one and I should clearly be saving my shotgun parts to craft a combat shotgun.  The lack of parts also devalues getting schematics. 

 

 

I scrap every weapon of the same class and buy tier 1 verisons from the trader and scrap them to get enough parts. It's worth it.

[dcsobral]

On 12/10/2021 at 7:52 AM, JaxTeller718 said:

That said A20 has been amazing in my opinion. The sense of fear is back and I am not looking to mod things as fast as in other Alphas. This is a home run imo and the pois and danger present are amazing. Great work Mad Mole and the team! This is a huge step in the right direction!

I said on stream that Alpha 20 felt like the JaxTeller Edition. 😂

[madmole]

On 12/11/2021 at 4:29 PM, Blake_ said:

Alright, @madmole I finally got to plant and invest in "living off the land" Day 15 (day 30 in 1-hour days).

My opinion on farming:

 

Pros:

 

.You lose without investing at least one point : I like that. Makes the player give more importance to seeds and makes farming more "engaging".

 

. You get more yield than a19 with the Level 3 of the perk unlocked. Also cool.

 

.This rebalance prepares the game for the new armor bonuses. Also good.

 

Cons:

 

. Living off the Land 2 is crappy and just a stepping stone as seed recipes are plentiful. It should have at least a small increased chance to get seeds as always 50% is bad for gameplay feeling in my opinion. A 5% or 10% more should be more than enough. Not more, as the rest will be filled with the future armor/legendary weapon buffs.

 

It's subtle, but I enjoyed more planting once than the current system. The biggest thing here was that it saved time. I would had preferred if the seeds were used in many food recipes like yucca seeds for yucca smoothie for example in order to make them important, so the current loot abundance remains unchanged. And also would  make it so you can fail to harvest crops, either with a occasional decreased yield or a model swap into a rotten plant (requires 1 rotten model per plant that gives 1 seed).

 

All in all, for non-focused fortitude builds, farming is worse in the feeling that it projects and most importantly in the time that it makes us lose, which in this game is crutial. 

The fact that it's actually quite better in the crops it produces (level 3 LoL) doesn't make up for it enough.

 

Maybe the a21 armors will change my point of view.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We are changing living off the land 2 to give you a 50% chance of another crop so its exactly between rank 1 and 3.