Anyone else hate vultures?

[Dracula]

5 hours ago, katarynna said:

I know how to read, thank you. You didn't mind vulture in a18.

 

The "feature" they added was to make vultures very aggressive vs vehicles, especially on horde night. This added a threat to driving a vehicle.

 

Many of us like the fact that vehicles are no longer a "safe space".  The developers want there to be no "safe space." Your "problem" is not really with vultures. It is the loss of your "safe space".

 

If you screw up on horde night, you want to be able to make a run for your safe space, drive around with immunity from damage til 0400, then finish off the horde at your leisure. If you are driving a long distance, you want to be driving in your "safe space", where you don't have to stay focused on the game paying attention to threats.

 

If they kept the vultures the same as a18 and made only zombie arlene focus on your "safe space", attack it, chase it, possibly destroy it with an increased speed and damage to your "safe space", this post would be titled "who else hates zombie arlene.

 

The developers want there to always be threats. Many of us want there to always be threats. You want the one "safe space" you counted on in a18 to continue being your "safe space". Mod it.
 

 

You do NOT know how to read; where have I ever mentioned using a vehicle on horde night?  I never have.  My complaints are as follows:

 

Vultures do too much damage to vehicles; 20% in a single attack.

Vulture attacks outright halt vehicles; how getting hit from behind causes the vehicle to stop I do not know.

They cause infection/bleeding/lacerations while on a vehicle; should be protected by vehicle, especially 4x4

You cannot hear them coming and may not notice until there are 5 or more after you.

They are faster than the 4x4.

On horde night they spawn in, not only in greater numbers, but at random after being dispatched and without warning.

 

What part of not liking how they bring gameplay, especially when traveling across the map to a trader mission, to a grinding halt by swarming my vehicle, says that I'm complaining about trying to "avoid" a horde?  If vultures as a part of the horde were a problem, I'd turn off the horde altogether.

 

LEARN TO READ!

[katarynna]

Repair kits are cheap. Repair your vehicle after a vulture attack.

If a vulture halts your vehicle, get out and kill it.

Keep an eye out for vultures while traveling and get out and kill them from ranged to prevent infection/bleeding/lacerations. Keep medical supplies in the ampble storage provided by the vehicle in case you are too slow or not paying attention. I believe even the 4x4 has an open top which leaves you open to attack, but if not i'm still ok with it because no place should be free from threat.

You can look around while on a vehicle, you can see shadows on the ground, and i often hear them. Pay attention to your surroundings.

If they weren't faster than vehicles, they would not be a threat.

On horde night, all zombies spawn in in greater numbers and at random after being dispatched. Your warning is that it is horde night. Setting up horde defenses to deal with vultures is easy

 

The vultures do not bring gameplay to a halt. Dealing with vultures are part of gameplay. You may not like that part, but they are indeed part of the game. Having them as a threat to vehicles adds actual gameplay to traveling from point a to point b, instead of making it almost afk. To me, that is a good thing. It is intended by the fun pimps to have threats everywhere you go. Many other people also like it. It's fine if you don't, but again, your answer is to mod it.

[Dracula]

OR they could fix the balance issue with vultures back to A18 levels when they were an asset to the game instead of a hindrance.

 

Like the looting system, they need an overhaul.

[katarynna]

They are now the threat for vehicles. 

 

Driving from point a to point b was almost an afk kind of activity before a19. It had no real threat. Other almost afk activities have threats in this game. Mining underground gets you screamers or wandering hordes. Doing home base activities like managing forges and other workstations, cooking, and sorting loot gets interrupted by screamers as well. Chopping down your tree farm, screamers and wandering hordes.

 

Having driving now come with a threat is consistent with the way the game works. No safe space except the traders. And only then if you keep the door closed and their aren't enough zombies to climb on top of each other to get over. Wait, take it back. Vultures can attack you at the traders, ironically enough.

 

A18 i zoned out while driving, trying to pay just enough attention to not drive into a large lake or off a cliff. It was completely boring. Now, i scan around me constantly and pay attention, because if you don't you may get swarmed by vultures. Unlike you though, that only happened to me once. Paying attention and dealing with them quickly means no critical injuries and minimal damage to my vehicles.

 

I think vultures are in a great spot right now, since they added gameplay to vehicle travel.

[Dracula]

You and I will never agree on this; I will not engage you any further.  Your interpretations of what I'm saying are wrong and I will not bother to waste any more of my time on you.

[katarynna]

You are probably correct regarding us never agreeing on this. I truly wish you luck in finding a way to tolerate the changes you don't like or to revert them.

 

Good luck.

[GoldsharkROU]

Hace 33 minutos, katarynna dijo:

Ahora son la amenaza para los vehículos. 

 

Conducir del punto a al punto b era casi un tipo de actividad afk antes de a19. No tenía una amenaza real. Otras actividades casi afk tienen amenazas en este juego. La minería subterránea te hace gritar u hordas errantes. Los gritones también interrumpen la realización de actividades en el hogar, como la gestión de forjas y otras estaciones de trabajo, la cocina y la clasificación del botín. Cortando tu granja de árboles, gritones y hordas errantes.

 

Tener la conducción ahora viene con una amenaza es consistente con la forma en que funciona el juego. No hay espacio seguro, excepto los vendedores. Y solo entonces si mantienes la puerta cerrada y sus zombis no son suficientes para caminar sobre otros para superarlos. Espera, devuélvelo. Los buitres pueden atacar a los comerciantes, irónicamente.

 

A18 me separé mientras conducía, tratando de prestar la atención suficiente para no conducir a un gran lago o al precipicio. Fue completamente aburrido. Ahora, escaneo a mi alrededor constantemente y presto atención, porque si no lo haces, puedes ser invadido por buitres. Sin embargo, una diferencia de ti, eso solo me pasó una vez. Prestar atención y tratar con ellos rápidamente significa que no hay lesiones críticas y daños limitados en mis vehículos.

 

Creo que los buitres están en un gran lugar en este momento, ya que agregas el juego al viaje en vehículo.

Last night on the blood moon, I was accessing a ramp to my motorcycle base, when three vultures attacked me and threw me off my ramp onto nearby metal spikes ... that caused my death!
Yes, the vultures are now a nuisance and a danger to be aware of!

 

[Kalen]

3 hours ago, katarynna said:

They are now the threat for vehicles. 

 

Driving from point a to point b was almost an afk kind of activity before a19. It had no real threat. Other almost afk activities have threats in this game. Mining underground gets you screamers or wandering hordes. Doing home base activities like managing forges and other workstations, cooking, and sorting loot gets interrupted by screamers as well. Chopping down your tree farm, screamers and wandering hordes.

 

Having driving now come with a threat is consistent with the way the game works. No safe space except the traders. And only then if you keep the door closed and their aren't enough zombies to climb on top of each other to get over. Wait, take it back. Vultures can attack you at the traders, ironically enough.

 

A18 i zoned out while driving, trying to pay just enough attention to not drive into a large lake or off a cliff. It was completely boring. Now, i scan around me constantly and pay attention, because if you don't you may get swarmed by vultures. Unlike you though, that only happened to me once. Paying attention and dealing with them quickly means no critical injuries and minimal damage to my vehicles.

 

I think vultures are in a great spot right now, since they added gameplay to vehicle travel.

I really disagree.... they're not even remotely a threat; they're very easy to deal with.  The problem is that they're an annoyance.   Adding annoyances to a game is never a good thing.

[katarynna]

To me, vultures attacking vehicles is similar to screamers spawning while mining or running too many forges. Not hard to deal with, but a constant reminder to stay vigilant because there are threats everywhere.

 

Driving 2k in game with nothing to do but hold down sprint is boring. Vultures just spice it up a bit.

 

To me, boring is worse than annoying in games. Especially when not everyone is annoyed.

[Reckis]

I hate them most thoroughly for a couple of reasons :

 

1. An undead vulture should not be able to strafe like an f'ing hummingbird

2. Hit boxes are ridiculously small . . . its like their wings are made of smoke

3. The whole vehicle fetish

[Kalen]

3 hours ago, katarynna said:

To me, boring is worse than annoying in games. Especially when not everyone is annoyed.

To each his own, I guess.   I don't find driving boring.... I find it fun.   Though I don't want either, in a choice between bored and annoyed, I will always chose bored.  At least when I'm bored, I can find something to keep myself entertained.   

[FileMachete]

So what the heck happens to the vehicle when it gets to 0% health? Does it go boom! and disappear (with all your loots)?

 

I'll have to see how it feels in a19 but reading this topic leaves me with completely no-experiance thoughts that it may be overdone.

 

I did watch Veduis vid where he had the blade traps on the roof then sat on a bicycle. That's clearly exploitive and needs addressing imo.

 

On the regular driving around; if a straight 2k drive saw more than a couple group-of-vultures attacking that'd be too much in-my-unedumakated-opinion.

 

Heck, one of the first things I usually do as soon as I get a gas powered transport is to fully map out the nearest town/city or two. If that resulted in vulture attacks every few blocks I'd be looking for a mod because I can picture that getting on my nerves right quick.

 

And I gotta bring up how counter it sounds to the often stated dev opinion about "delivered to your door" mechanics, heh. Not to mention that other than Sewing Kits one of the only serious item constraints in the game was Bones for Glue/Duct-tape...

[Sydious]

After catching up and reading through post I think people are confusing "difficult" with "Annoying".  They are not difficult to kill, if you have a level 1 bow or club... hell even naked fist, you can kill them easy enough.  

That being said, they are ANNOYING.  Difficult = Challenge = Fun,  Annoying = Want to log out and wait for next change.

[Dracula]

3 hours ago, FileMachete said:

So what the heck happens to the vehicle when it gets to 0% health? Does it go boom! and disappear (with all your loots)?

 

I'll have to see how it feels in a19 but reading this topic leaves me with completely no-experiance thoughts that it may be overdone.

 

I did watch Veduis vid where he had the blade traps on the roof then sat on a bicycle. That's clearly exploitive and needs addressing imo.

 

On the regular driving around; if a straight 2k drive saw more than a couple group-of-vultures attacking that'd be too much in-my-unedumakated-opinion.

 

Heck, one of the first things I usually do as soon as I get a gas powered transport is to fully map out the nearest town/city or two. If that resulted in vulture attacks every few blocks I'd be looking for a mod because I can picture that getting on my nerves right quick.

 

And I gotta bring up how counter it sounds to the often stated dev opinion about "delivered to your door" mechanics, heh. Not to mention that other than Sewing Kits one of the only serious item constraints in the game was Bones for Glue/Duct-tape...

Yes; they explode and kill you as well as destroying everything in them.

[FileMachete]

6 minutes ago, Dracula said:

Yes; they explode and kill you as well as destroying everything in them.

err... ha?  0_o  -no- idea if you're kidding or not Drac.. call me gullible but I've been playing 7dtd too long not to believe this isn't entirely improbable with TFPs... 🥴

[Dracula]

6 minutes ago, FileMachete said:

err... ha?  0_o  -no- idea if you're kidding or not Drac.. call me gullible but I've been playing 7dtd too long not to believe this isn't entirely improbable with TFPs... 🥴

That's what happened to mine.  I immediately exited, turned on cheats, and spawned a replacement back in.

 

They DO explode when vehicle health hits 0%; and any time you're under 20% that can be ONE vulture.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/5/1637542851348965111/

 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/10/3216031607492321312/

[FA_Q2]

18 minutes ago, FileMachete said:

err... ha?  0_o  -no- idea if you're kidding or not Drac.. call me gullible but I've been playing 7dtd too long not to believe this isn't entirely improbable with TFPs... 🥴

You must have missed the video where MadMole accidentally strafed his shiny new gyro copter with his M60 on horde night 😛

 

Boom!

 

[FileMachete]

Ouch. Ok, thanks for the info @Dracula & @FA_Q2

 

I was honestly thinking this was the new gag, but yeah, now that you mention it I do recall that MM vid FA.

 

Some of the heat in this thread makes more sense now fer sure.

 

Since Gazz is on maybe we should recommend that he add in the possiblility for a vulture to proc a stealth hit and one-shot 4x4s...? 

 

At least that way it could be a short term "feature", and peeps would have funny storys to tell

[Raestloz]

8 hours ago, Sydious said:

people are confusing "difficult" with "Annoying"

This so much. People always conflate the two and barrage real concerns down with a lot of words that would've sufficed with "git gud"

[Dracula]

3 hours ago, Raestloz said:

This so much. People always conflate the two and barrage real concerns down with a lot of words that would've sufficed with "git gud"

That's why I like the turd sandwich analogy; while you CAN eat a sandwich with a turd in it, many people would prefer NOT TO EAT IT and do not care for advice on how to disguise the taste, suppress the gag reflex, which sauces make it taste good, and how it's supposed to be in the sandwich and we're wrong for not wanting it.

 

This is a thread about how vultures are annoying; NOT how to survive their attacks.  That's why the first thing I posted when I started the thread was that I didn't want any "get gud" advice.  There's a problem with that mindset here; between "it's supposed to be that way," "you're playing wrong; get gud," and "just get a mod" it kills development and I won't bother with mods until we have a stable build.  Then, if I have to mod it, OK.  Doesn't mean they're still not a problem.

[Guest]

I'd be okay with them if they weren't so janky. Always remind me I'm playing a videogame in alpha when I see them flying like they're on the end of an invisible jojo.

 

I agree that they're more of an annoyance than something to be reckoned with. But before TFP buff them to one-shot vehicles, I'd like to suggest that vehicle health reaching 0 should just make it unusable until you find a replacement engine/battery/wheels/etc. Or at least give us some interesting mitigation strategies that don't involve looking at the sky while driving and stopping every couple of seconds to shoot at drunk birds.

[Roland]

“Not difficult....just annoying”

 

That is the same exact thing people say about loot timers, craft timers, POI sleepers, bloodmoon hordes, screamer hordes, hunger and thirst, inventory management, broken legs, infection, primitive stage, stamina management, etc.  

 

If TFP listened to every annoyed player we would have a game with instant crafting and looting, empty buildings, no hordes, no status debuffs of any kind, infinite storage space, guns and ammo everywhere, and infinite stamina because none of that contributes to difficulty in the slightest. It all just makes the game annoying. 
 

Everyone has fun in a different way and what is “annoying”  is impossible to develop to because it is a moving target. 
 

If this truly isn’t a matter of difficulty and really is just a matter of annoyance then “mod it” really is the answer here.
 

So thanks for clarifying for us what type of an issue this is. Personally annoying? Mod it. 

[Roland]

11 hours ago, Dracula said:

That's what happened to mine.  I immediately exited, turned on cheats, and spawned a replacement back in.

 

They DO explode when vehicle health hits 0%; and any time you're under 20% that can be ONE vulture.

See, this right here is what I believe is the core truth of the issue of vultures. It isn’t about how annoying they are or how difficult they are. It is about the threat they represent. Threat level is something that can be designed into the game in a measurable way.
 

Tom will be annoyed and Jerry will find it too difficult but that is their own personal experiences and the devs can’t mind read especially when Sue finds it fun and Debbie finds it too easy with the same implementation. 
 

But threat is measurable. If the devs want there to be a chance that a player’s vehicle will explode if they are dumb enough to take it out with less than 20% hp left then that is the threat and consequence designed into the game. 
 

No matter how you feel about vultures, they represent a threat as we travel around. They cannot just be ignored because of the threat they bring.  Without them in the game there would be no threat.
 

This would mean that a 4x4 at 100% and a 4x4 at 10% would be exactly the same. Perhaps that’s what you really want?

You know....on the totem pole of “turd sandwich eating” I would rank cheating yourself in a replacement vehicle for your own mistake lower than just modding the vultures to be more how you like it....

[FileMachete]

3 minutes ago, Roland said:

But threat is measurable. If the devs want there to be a chance that a player’s vehicle will explode if they are dumb enough to take it out with less than 20% hp left then that is the threat and consequence designed into the game. 

I get what you're saying Roland, and in general agree with you.

 

And take this with a few grains of sand as I'm not playing a19 yet.

 

Just reading this thread I can see a disconnect between what vultures can apparently do to a 3000 pound hunk of metal and what they do to a 110-200 pound squishy flesh person.

 

I've never tested it but I've taken quite a few hits from vultures in-game over the years, and other than really early on, sans armor, the only threat they really posed was getting infected, not the hp damage done. Just guessing but I'd be suprised if five hits from a vulture can take down a player past day 15 or so?

 

Not saying there aren't some mental gymnastics we could do to rationalize a vulture managing to blow up jeeps; we're packing pressure sensitive explosives and they hit it, or they pierced the gas tank and also managed to cause a spark to set it off, etc.

 

But those are a bit of reach. Now if what we saw was a spontaneously combusting divebombing featherd h3ll chicken blazing across the sky to impale our poor jeeps gas tank, well... that'd be funny at least

[Biscoitoso]

TFP buffed the vultures and nerffed the vehicles. Now the motorcycle and 4x4 Truck move at 14/mps instead of 17 and 15 from the A-18. Cause that, you cant run from they, you need stop your vehicle and fight, if you just try run, they will bite your head continuously. Last time I tryed run from a vulture using my motorcycle I got my arm broken, bleed, infection, ebola, AIDS, coronavirus and one of my kidneys got stolen...