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Anyone else hate vultures?


Dracula
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Day 1 10AM - infected, broken leg, fatigued

Day 1-3 - run around finding honey and finally some antibiotics to get infection under control

 

So, all healed up on Day 4 doing a T1 fetch. Satchel is in the first closet on 1st floor, but of course I want the Big Loot on the roof - who knows, maybe there's a Q4 stone axe up there! 🙏

 

So I fight through a couple of zombies on the upper floor and make my way to the ladder to the roof. As soon as I step foot off the ladder I am attacked by a vulture and the stupid ADS-lock and no auto-reload on the crossbow (not a fan, TFP!) have me scrambling to whip out the club. The result of the fight:

 

Vulture: ☠️

Boidster: 20% health, infected, broken leg, sprained arm, abrasion, fatigued

 

I'm totally fine with this, with one exception: the first step off a ladder should be 0% detection chance, since we can't actually sneak when on a ladder. Hopping off the ladder should not wake the bird. Two exceptions: crossbow should drop out of ADS after firing, if it is not going to auto reload. And it should now allow you to go into ADS if it does not have a bolt ready. Trying to ADS should cause a reload action, just like trying to shoot does. $.02

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I had my damage turned up and zombies on "always run" and, it seems, that is the source of my excessive damage; I detached the camera and found I was getting chain hits.

 

I'd get stopped, 5 would hit me, but I'd only see one because they'd overlap.

 

It also explains why my problems were compounded on vehicles.

 

I'm not without fault in complaining; and it seems it's more of a bug; also explains why I was frequently getting infected.  5 hits means a greater chance.

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On 7/13/2020 at 5:16 PM, Adam the Waster said:

they bug to me mostly when i get infected but i like them.

 

I love there idea! and they are not that hard to kill! while riding in a bike and they attack you does suck! they only attack you if you are hurt! IE, if you have 100 hp and you lost 1. they will attack!

 

 

that or just Play Baseball with a Flying bird!

Unless they have been fixed in the latest patch that is not correct. I have had 100% health for me and the vehicle, and they still attacked. as of A18.4

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Just now, Demandred1957 said:

Unless they have been fixed in the latest patch that is not correct. I have had 100% health for me and the vehicle, and they still attacked. as of A18.4

I believe they will attack vehicles regardless of health. On foot, they will only attack if you have lost 10% of health.

 

I could be wrong, but that is what i remember reading at some point and it seems to be what i experience as well.

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1 hour ago, Boidster said:

Day 1 10AM - infected, broken leg, fatigued

Day 1-3 - run around finding honey and finally some antibiotics to get infection under control

 

So, all healed up on Day 4 doing a T1 fetch. Satchel is in the first closet on 1st floor, but of course I want the Big Loot on the roof - who knows, maybe there's a Q4 stone axe up there! 🙏

 

So I fight through a couple of zombies on the upper floor and make my way to the ladder to the roof. As soon as I step foot off the ladder I am attacked by a vulture and the stupid ADS-lock and no auto-reload on the crossbow (not a fan, TFP!) have me scrambling to whip out the club. The result of the fight:

 

Vulture: ☠️

Boidster: 20% health, infected, broken leg, sprained arm, abrasion, fatigued

 

I'm totally fine with this, with one exception: the first step off a ladder should be 0% detection chance, since we can't actually sneak when on a ladder. Hopping off the ladder should not wake the bird. Two exceptions: crossbow should drop out of ADS after firing, if it is not going to auto reload. And it should now allow you to go into ADS if it does not have a bolt ready. Trying to ADS should cause a reload action, just like trying to shoot does. $.02

 There is no way a vulture should be able to break your leg.. I mean really..they swinging a sledgehammer in their claws or what? that bit of damage needs to be cut.

1 minute ago, katarynna said:

I believe they will attack vehicles regardless of health. On foot, they will only attack if you have lost 10% of health.

 

I could be wrong, but that is what i remember reading at some point and it seems to be what i experience as well.

Haven't been around them lately, but in the past, only been at 99% health and they still attacked me when on foot.

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12 minutes ago, Demandred1957 said:

There is no way a vulture should be able to break your leg.. I mean really..they swinging a sledgehammer in their claws or what? that bit of damage needs to be cut.

I don't disagree. I think TFP revamped the whole debuff system - which is great, no complaints - but just sort of copied/pasted it into zombieTemplate or the equivalent hard-coded thing behind the scenes. If/when they get time, it would be good to differentiate it a bit. Maybe vultures have a slightly higher chance for infection and laceration (sharp beak!) and sprained arm (defensive wounds from swatting at the bird?), dogs & wolves, have a higher chance to break your leg, normal humanoid zombies have an equal chance for causing any debuff, bigger/fatter zombies have higher chance for concussion, that sort of thing.

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2 minutes ago, Boidster said:

I don't disagree. I think TFP revamped the whole debuff system - which is great, no complaints - but just sort of copied/pasted it into zombieTemplate or the equivalent hard-coded thing behind the scenes. If/when they get time, it would be good to differentiate it a bit. Maybe vultures have a slightly higher chance for infection and laceration (sharp beak!) and sprained arm (defensive wounds from swatting at the bird?), dogs & wolves, have a higher chance to break your leg, normal humanoid zombies have an equal chance for causing any debuff, bigger/fatter zombies have higher chance for concussion, that sort of thing.

None of the animals except maybe the mountain lion, and for sure the bear should be able to break bones. Wolves might break bones after chewing on your corpse for a while after there is no meat left, but they just don't have power enough to do that. A mountain lion swat I could understand, though unlikely. Bear? oh yeah. They should prob break bones with the first attack honestly. Your take on vulture attacks sounds legit as well, although I don't know about the sprain part. People get in fist fights all the time, never really hear about sprains from punching. Not to mention boxing/mma.

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2 hours ago, FileMachete said:

I found another @Vedui video where he tested what happens with all vehicles & vultures on horde night (at no point did a vehicle go boom);

https://youtu.be/ShILqoo6Tj4

It's a couple weeks old so may not reflect current values, no idea.

 

Watching the Health percentage for the vehicles during vulture attacks I never saw it decrease by more than maybe 2 points at one time. Indicting, to me at least, that a single hit was never doing more than 1% damage at most (appeared to be 5-8 vultures attacking at once).

 

No question the 4x4 took by far the most damage of any vehicle, but even with Vedui driving while getting attacked for more than 1 minute & ~15 seconds, and later half getting beaten on by ~7 vultures, 3 non-rad and 1 radiated two legged zeds and 1 dog. 4x4 was down to 58% health when player died.

 

Vid was quite a bit different that what I expected from reading other posts in this thread. Not calling anyone out, but if anyone is seeing vulture hits taking more than say ~2% at a time, I'm guessing that would be bug-report worthy.

 

That said, it looks a bit overdone based on the video. Could be that since Vedui was driving the vehicles when horde night began that the initial onslaught was magnified. That if you were fighting the horde in a base, then had to bail out and did so by vehicle that there would be a transition/grace period before you had 5+ vultures on you. No idea, though I would hope that the design includes the ability for players to use a vehicle to fall back a couple few hundred meters to another location. Not saying they should be able to do that without danger/damage, but if you bailed out with low health it doesn't look like you'd make it very far at all.

 

To be clear, I'm not particularly fussed that this idea is now in game, it's been MM's windmill to tilt against for a long time so we knew it was coming at some point. Any concern I have is about 'fair play'. Roland earlier pointed out that my comment about vulture damage vs. 3000 pound 4x4 or vs. fleshy person was consistent within 7dtd; zeds breaking through reinforced concrete. Which was a fair point. Veduis vid showed that vulture damage doesn't suddenly jump a thousand percent just on horde nights, so that's fair imo. The only bit I see that might be somewhat unfair is if using a vehicle to fall back say 150-300? meters turns out to be mostly undoable. And if that turns out ot be TFPs designed intent, then so be it.

Veduis first video showed (and it also seems logical) that zombies are not immediately replaced by vultures on horde night when you mount a vehicle. But when zombies die in your horde base traps or get out of range and despawn they can be substituted with vultures. Not sure how far off you have to be for zombies who hit on your base walls to despawn, but that would be a relatively safe distance to drive. If they are running after you they also won't despawn.

 

2 hours ago, hiemfire said:

@meganoth Do you know if vehicles are immune to the critical effects that can be applied by the vultures' attacks?

 

Very sure they are immune. It doesn't make sense to program a bike to have a broken leg. BUT in A20 a corresponding damage system will be added for vehicles and then vehicles will get flat tires instead of broken legs.

 

17 minutes ago, Boidster said:

I don't disagree. I think TFP revamped the whole debuff system - which is great, no complaints - but just sort of copied/pasted it into zombieTemplate or the equivalent hard-coded thing behind the scenes. If/when they get time, it would be good to differentiate it a bit. Maybe vultures have a slightly higher chance for infection and laceration (sharp beak!) and sprained arm (defensive wounds from swatting at the bird?), dogs & wolves, have a higher chance to break your leg, normal humanoid zombies have an equal chance for causing any debuff, bigger/fatter zombies have higher chance for concussion, that sort of thing.

 

I agree. I think the critical hit system does not take into account how fast a zombie attacks which means faster but low damage attacks have a much higher chance for crits. This probably has to be adapted.

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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3 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Very sure they are immune. It doesn't make sense to program a bike to have a broken leg. BUT in A20 a corresponding damage system will be added for vehicles and then vehicles will get flat tires instead of broken legs.

K. With Drac realizing they had their settings turned up it kinda made my question moot though.

Edited by hiemfire (see edit history)
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47 minutes ago, Demandred1957 said:

 There is no way a vulture should be able to break your leg.. I mean really..they swinging a sledgehammer in their claws or what? that bit of damage needs to be cut.

Haven't been around them lately, but in the past, only been at 99% health and they still attacked me when on foot.

Only in a POI. In the wild, on foot, at 99% HP they will ignore you. Same as 18.4.

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4 hours ago, JCrook1028 said:

Only in a POI. In the wild, on foot, at 99% HP they will ignore you. Same as 18.4.

Bet.. Out in the wild, at 99% health, and on foot, I have been attacked. May have just been on a vehicle, but after several seconds (harvesting something). Don't know about 19 though. May be true in this update, but for sure in 18.4

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

I agree. I think the critical hit system does not take into account how fast a zombie attacks which means faster but low damage attacks have a much higher chance for crits. This probably has to be adapted

Yeah, the animal attacks need to be toned down too. They hit super fast, and get crits right off the bat most of the time. Seems like every time I get attacked by a animal, the first hit stuns me, which is kinda bs. Got a recent vid up of a wolf doing just that.

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9 minutes ago, Demandred1957 said:

Bet.. Out in the wild, at 99% health, and on foot, I have been attacked.

I've had both in 18.4. Been completely ignored regardless how low my health was, been mobbed at 99% and lower. Getting in a vehicle that has less than 100% health in 18.4 was a guarantee to have the flying luddites attack...

Edited by hiemfire (see edit history)
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47 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

I've had both in 18.4. Been completely ignored regardless how low my health was, been mobbed at 99% and lower. Getting in a vehicle that has less than 100% health in 18.4 was a guarantee to have the flying luddites attack...

yeah, it almost seems like there is a rng factor going on for some of the attacks.

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Air enemies are a good idea, however most of the time it seems like they either spawn on top of you or make no sound at all until they already pecking a hole in the back of your skull.

 

Perhaps a more mechanical issue; if you are in a gyrocopter, they are much faster than you, and when (not if) they intercept you, the copter acts as though it just ran into a wall and falls out of the sky.

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14 hours ago, Roland said:

I’m sorry that you feel that my pointing out that people are not all the same as you feels dismissive but it is the truth and I’m not going to take it back just because it hurts your feelings...So stop it with the martyr complex

I understand that everyone have "bad days" and need to lash out in all sorts of ways to feel better. I just wish you don't do it with your moderator account

 

14 hours ago, Roland said:

I’ll state once again that your opinion has not actually been dismissed. Nobody deleted it or edited it to make it unreadable

I understand that in an international forum not everyone understands all English terminologies, so allow me to elaborate: "dismissing" is not the same as "censoring". Your argument of "eh everything is subjective anyway, so all arguments are pointless" is dismissive, as in "regarding something as nothing worth looking into". That's not even a matter of "feelings", that's just objective observation

 

14 hours ago, Roland said:

It is only in the burnt forest, desert, and wasteland biomes that you will be attacked often and even then we just had some actual testing done and reported in this thread by Mega and it appears that even the damage they do was greatly exaggerated

So, they're

  1. Easy to kill, and
  2. Attack often, and
  3. Spawns infinitely, and
  4. Zeroes in on you on vehicle, negating the point of using vehicle for fast travel and
  5. Don't even do much

I don't see which part of that doesn't describe the problem. Yes, they don't exist in 40% of the biomes. Great. We're talking about where vultures exist

 

14 hours ago, Roland said:

people on your anti-vulture side. 

This is how low you go? I comment twice voicing my concern, and here I am branded as a Martyr of Anti-Vulture Side? It's not like I was talking to you as if you're representative of Reasonable Devs for Vultures or something, but off you go with stupid blasts like that. YOU said "everyone gets a say, especially the ones you disagree with", so what the hell was that martyr thing about? Do I get singled out because I didn't say "REE VULTURE BAD ME NO LIKE"? Do I get singled out because I happen to agree on multiple issues that happen to have vultures as the problem?

 

But sure, point taken. I'll stay silent

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1 hour ago, Raestloz said:

I understand that everyone have "bad days" and need to lash out in all sorts of ways to feel better. I just wish you don't do it with your moderator account

Oh brother....If wet noodles count as lashes then I suppose—so sorry for splashing a bit of water on you. I wasn’t angry and my day has been great. Thank you. :)  Perhaps you’re new here so you don’t realize that you can say whatever you want to me without fear of reprisal by me. If you insult and bypass the swear filters and call names one of the other mods might ding you for that but I don’t use mod powers to debate here, I just use my words. Change my mind. Don’t just complain about being dismissed. People who read you and who read me will gravitate to the more compelling argument. Period. 

 

1 hour ago, Raestloz said:

I understand that in an international forum not everyone understands all English terminologies, so allow me to elaborate: "dismissing" is not the same as "censoring". Your argument of "eh everything is subjective anyway, so all arguments are pointless" is dismissive, as in "regarding something as nothing worth looking into". That's not even a matter of "feelings", that's just objective observation

I never said everything is subjective. I said that when looking at “annoyance” and “fun” and “threat assessment” only one of those things is reliably measurable and not so subjective as to be a useless avenue of development.

 

As I said, without vultures, running around at 80% health is exactly the same as 100% health. Driving a vehicle at 5%  health is the same as 100% health. The wasteland, burnt forest, and desert plays exactly the same as the forest and snow biomes. Once you have a vehicle it is game over. Why not just fast travel from location to location? What’s the point of having an apocalyptic environment to travel through without any threat?

 

change my mind. 

1 hour ago, Raestloz said:

So, they're

  1. Easy to kill, and
  2. Attack often, and
  3. Spawns infinitely, and
  4. Zeroes in on you on vehicle, negating the point of using vehicle for fast travel and
  5. Don't even do much

I don't see which part of that doesn't describe the problem. Yes, they don't exist in 40% of the biomes. Great. We're talking about where vultures exist

I disagree with number 4. We are talking about non-horde night. The use of vehicles is not negated. You have to engage them and kill them and it is not constant. You still get to your destination faster than on foot. 
 

And yes, we are talking about the tougher biomes. Do you really want the wasteland to play out exactly like the forest except for colors and textures?  
 

We have the means to build a variety of vehicles and Mega’s test proves that the mini-bike outruns vultures. So having a stash of mini bikes in an outpost near the border of the wasteland might be a good idea. You switch your ride when going into the wasteland. 

1 hour ago, Raestloz said:

But sure, point taken. I'll stay silent

If you think I want you to stay silent then you completely missed my point. What’s wrong with being called anti-vulture? The title of this thread is Who hates vultures? It’s pretty clear how you would answer that question especially since they are just like cliff racers in your mind. What does international definitions tell us about hating something and being anti something?  Don’t go away mad. Don’t answer mad. Change my mind. Measurable reasons like threat, choices, and diversity of biomes are more important to me than just “this is annoying” or “this sucks”. It might be true for you but it isn’t true for everyone so how can it be useful? Who do the devs listen to and why should they listen to your preferences over someone else’s?  That is way too tangled and muddy. 

 

Edited by Roland (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, Roland said:

Mega’s test proves that the mini-bike outruns vultures.

 

Wait, it does?   Isn't the mini-bike slower than the motorcycle and the 4x4?   I know for a fact that it used to be.   

So I just tested it, I think it's more bugged than anything.... it seemed like I was barely outrunning it on the minibike, except the vulture kept clipping through me.   It seemed to me that it was more than close enough to attack, but it never did.

 

Anyway, like I said, to me its nothing more than an annoyance.... but if enough people like that (for the life of me I can't see why) I can deal with it.

Edited by Kalen (see edit history)
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8 hours ago, Kalen said:

Wait, it does?   Isn't the mini-bike slower than the motorcycle and the 4x4?   I know for a fact that it used to be.   

So I just tested it, I think it's more bugged than anything.... it seemed like I was barely outrunning it on the minibike, except the vulture kept clipping through me.   It seemed to me that it was more than close enough to attack, but it never did.

 

Anyway, like I said, to me its nothing more than an annoyance.... but if enough people like that (for the life of me I can't see why) I can deal with it.

I did not test outrunning the vultures with a motorcycle or a 4x4. If anyone wants to further test this and can show that a minibike outruns a vulture but a motorcycle doesn't then that definitely would be a bug.

 

My theory is that either basic vultures are faster on horde night (similar to basic zombies being faster as well) or that radiated vultures are faster than normal vultures.

 

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On 7/25/2020 at 9:54 AM, Boidster said:

Day 1 10AM - infected, broken leg, fatigued

Day 1-3 - run around finding honey and finally some antibiotics to get infection under control

 

So, all healed up on Day 4 doing a T1 fetch. Satchel is in the first closet on 1st floor, but of course I want the Big Loot on the roof - who knows, maybe there's a Q4 stone axe up there! 🙏

 

So I fight through a couple of zombies on the upper floor and make my way to the ladder to the roof. As soon as I step foot off the ladder I am attacked by a vulture and the stupid ADS-lock and no auto-reload on the crossbow (not a fan, TFP!) have me scrambling to whip out the club. The result of the fight:

 

Vulture: ☠️

Boidster: 20% health, infected, broken leg, sprained arm, abrasion, fatigued

 

I'm totally fine with this, with one exception: the first step off a ladder should be 0% detection chance, since we can't actually sneak when on a ladder. Hopping off the ladder should not wake the bird. Two exceptions: crossbow should drop out of ADS after firing, if it is not going to auto reload. And it should now allow you to go into ADS if it does not have a bolt ready. Trying to ADS should cause a reload action, just like trying to shoot does. $.02

The only problem I would have here is that broken legs and arms have heal times that are waaaaaay to long.  Don't mind the punishment, do mind that I feel like logging because the time it takes to heal just seems excessive.

 

I cant be alone in this?  

 

@roland: 

Do you know if the devs have plans for those 2 timers?

 

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2 hours ago, FA_Q2 said:

@roland: 

Do you know if the devs have plans for those 2 timers?

If you use a splint it cuts a huge amount of the time off and also greatly reduces the speed penalty. I haven’t heard anything specifically about reducing the effects more but once experimental is over and they start putting out .1 and .2 and .3 updates there has historically been a gentling of the penalties. We’ll just have to see how typical this cycle turns out to be...

 

Until then, for instant relief I subscribe eating broken  glass. Not only will your broken bones instantly heal but you will be fully hydrated and fed as well. Your only payment: a short delay until your next level (and any survivalist pride you may have).

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58 minutes ago, Roland said:

Until then, for instant relief I subscribe eating broken  glass. Not only will your broken bones instantly heal but you will be fully hydrated and fed as well. Your only payment: a short delay until your next level (and any survivalist pride you may have).

7 Days to Die.  The survival, horde, crafting game.

Crafting

Survival

At least we still have the horde.

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